*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[r3d86]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that 

[Logain Ablar]

Sorry if this what already mentioned before, but why is Xander sometimes simply called X while all other characters are always mentioned in their full name?

From https://www.dreamtheater.net/theastonishingtracks

"Arhys also has another reason to want to be free of this life of adversity… his eight year old son Xander whom he affectionately calls ‘X’."

[pdurbin22]

I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?

[Logain Ablar]

I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?

It's very subtle, but in Astonishing:

[Arabelle]
My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven on this day!

[cramx3]

I finally listened to the album on Sunday afternoon with my friend.  I read aloud the song meanings from the website before each track and then we listened and discussed. 

It's an awful lot to take in for one sitting.  The story has a lot of depth (and I haven't even looked at the lyrics).  The music has very few chorus' and catch points so tracks as wholes did not necessarily stick out so much.  It felt all like one big song (or maybe two for each act). 

The story is pretty good and interesting, the music was very nice, but I need more listens before I make any judgements on the album, just too much to digest.

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that 

I think it is because Arhys was already dead, where as Faythe was "dying"

[changing_seasons]

Is there any word on a guitar or keyboard tab book for this album? That would be pretty awesome to have for a project of this size!

[pdurbin22]

I saw an earlier thread where someone pointed out that Daryus got off way too easy for being such a prick and killing (or attempting to kill) two characters. He kind of just disappears after that, until his mother Arabelle says "I forgive you, especially with your new impairment."  I looked at the lyrics to see if I missed something, but I didn't. Finally, I read the track notes on the microsite and saw it - he's permanently deaf in a new world full of music, as a result of Gabriel's eardrum-shattering scream. That makes much more sense!

Anyone else notice that this key point was missing from the actual lyrics - or am I still missing it there somewhere?

It's very subtle, but in Astonishing:

[Arabelle]
My prince, my son
You got lost along the way
In light of this new burden that you face
You are forgiven on this day!

Yeah, I did catch that "new burden that you face" line, but just didn't know what that burden was until I read the online description. Maybe that was intentional so that we'd all go to the site to catch some extra nuggets of info, which after some thought is kinda cool. Get 90% of the story from the album, but look for clues elsewhere to get the other 10%. Keeps us engaged.

[Logain Ablar]

Yeah, I did catch that "new burden that you face" line, but just didn't know what that burden was until I read the online description. Maybe that was intentional so that we'd all go to the site to catch some extra nuggets of info, which after some thought is kinda cool. Get 90% of the story from the album, but look for clues elsewhere to get the other 10%. Keeps us engaged.

Yeah - I don't think there's enough in the lyrics alone to make it totally clear. Hopefully there'll be some visuals in the show to make it more obvious what's happening. Daryus clapping his hands over his ears and writhing around in pain, that sort of thing.. 

[dparrott]

It might have sounded better if songs flowed in and out of the NOMAC tracks instead of them being stand alone.  Then they would have been more like transitional sounds between songs.  It sounds awkward the way it is now to me.

[7StringedBeast]

After listening to this album, I'm just really sad and disappointed with it.  I was hoping for the creative spark and energy of SFAM, but all I got was sleepy ballads that quite literally made me fall asleep... twice.  Some of the high moments were really really high for me.  They'd get into this great part and then it would just stop and we'd go back to some slow piano ballad thing.

Also, all the ballads are the pretty much the same.  Start with piano/acoustic, do a verse, then have the drums do a 1 measure fill.  This happens I think about 7 times on the album. 

I just feel like they never get into anything in this album.  I feel like the music is just one long drone with some brilliant playing thrown in, only to be thrown away just as quickly as it showed up.

The problem to me is that DT are really great musicians.  Their writing as of late has felt uninspired to me, though.  One thing I always thought about JP was that his lyrics were not very good.  Then he decides to take on writing an entire rock opera and to me, the story is trite.  It's just cliche after cliche with lyrics that just hit right on the nose the whole time.  So, I think this album was set up to failure from the beginning.  I think they would have been better off having an actual writer come in to do the story and then they do the music for it.  Maybe that would have helped the emotional part come through.

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I'm actually considering selling my ticket to the RC show.

Anyways, I'm super sad that this album missed the mark for me.  I'll just keep listening to 8v and earlier because that is still some of the best music out there.  I just for once would like to get a DT album that I feel really shows what they are capable of.  I don't know why, but I just feel they can do so much better.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

My one question is why did Gabriel save only Faythe and not Arhys too?

Because they wrote that 

I think that's because Faythe was at the brink of death, wheras Ahrys was already dead.

[hefdaddy42]

The twenty seconds following 1:22 in Lord Nafaryus might be the most annoying, unpleasant piece of audio DT has ever released.

That is not possible, there is no Bebot played during that section.

[pdurbin22]

The twenty seconds following 1:22 in Lord Nafaryus might be the most annoying, unpleasant piece of audio DT has ever released.

See, and I loved that part! To each their own...

[BlobVanDam]

That part annoys me too, but I've gotten used to it.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I actually love that section 

[BlackInk]

I think that section is fine. Nothing that stuck with me, but it was fine.

[cramx3]

Anyone else let down by the "scream"?  I read the passage before listening and was so excited to here that, and then laughed at it.  Even my brother who was in the other room chimed in for that one part, "THAT?! that was the scream? lol"

[Shooters1221]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!

I agree with this part of your post and it actually has been discussed in it's own thread; https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=45729.0

The rest of your post I could not disagree with more, but appreciate the thoughts rather than, "It sucks".

IMO, this has been growing on me with every spin, and am absolutely loving it.

[skipreid]

I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?   

[lovethedrake]

I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

The way "The Life Left Behind" goes from amazing intro to poppy ballad is definitely strange.   Although I still like the whole song it would have been nice if they build something vocally off of that intro. 

Also agree that they have a tendency to always build up their songs to an epic.   Not every song needs to have an epic climax as it often dilutes the songs where a climax is truly necessary.

I happen to love the fade out in The New Beginning though... I think its sounds awesome. 

There are definitely several low key moments on this album where you can actually feel the band holding back the virtuosity.  Clearly their comfort spot is having more virtuosity.  See "The Hymn of a Thousand Words"

Yet despite some of its flaws its still incredible.  Its the most inviting album to listen to since SDOIT and the songs have been in my head all day.    I love it and while it may not be as perfect or tight as some of their classic albums.  It definitely rivals some of them due to the sheer size and ambition displayed.   

[Bertielee]

I don't like it. At all. I am a huge DT fan and have seen them numerous times. I was looking forward to this tour, but I won't be going to watch them perform this album. I just couldn't get into it. Of course the musicianship is incredible. I also feel the this is James' best album of vocals. He was brilliant. However after listening to the album 3 times, I can't remember ONE single track that stands out that made me hum or sing a chorus to or catchy riff. For me, the tracks are too short and they never got into songs. I guess it's just a rock opera that HAS to be listened to over the entire act. To me, they focused way too much on the story and characters than the music. I assume now that this tour will be more of a visual play and DT just happens to be standing there playing background tracks. That's just not my thing. So for me, The Astonishing was a big let down and I will pass on it. I also didn't like BCaSL. I would rank this one right down near the bottom with it. I will just listen to Score for a while to restore my FAYTHE....see what I did there?

 So we did not hear the same album. Plenty of catchy melodies for me. To say that they did not write songs is beyond my understanding. Sorry, mate, to each their own but... Some tracks still don't click with me, but it's not because they are not songs.

B.Lee

[Progmetty]

I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

This is another thing that I find unique about The Astonishing; I absolutely love it yet I completely understand where those who don't are coming from.

[ariich]

I love the album but I think some of the critiques are fair.

This is another thing that I find unique about The Astonishing; I absolutely love it yet I completely understand where those who don't are coming from.

I would hope most people were able to understand each other's opinions most of the time!

[lovethedrake]

There are definitely issues I have with the album but I love rock operas so much!   Dream theater doing a rock opera is paradise for me.  So I can overlook some of the flaws.

I can definitely understand someone who hates rock operas having major issues with the astonishing. 

[pdurbin22]

Anyone else notice that that the chorus chord progression in "Three Days" (and its reprise in "2285 Entr'acte), sounds like the part in "Raw Dog" from 1:36-2:05? Especially the string sweeps...

[Evermind]

Anyone else notice that that the chorus chord progression in "Three Days" (and its reprise in "2285 Entr'acte), sounds like the part in "Raw Dog" from 1:36-2:05? Especially the string sweeps...

Nope, because I honestly don't remember how any part from Raw Dog sounds.

[Kotowboy]

Imagine if this album was huge and a movie was made out of it which also catapulted DT into the big leagues...

Portnoy :

[BlobVanDam]

I highly doubt it would be successful as a movie.

[Kotowboy]

It might just be my headphones being a bit bassy - but after a while the album seems to get a bit muddy ?

[cramx3]

It's already a variant sub story to Game of Thrones.  Couldn't help but laugh about the parallels while reading the story yesterday.

[NunoTenniscourt]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

[Kotowboy]

someone else complained that the Best Of Times solo fades out...

So, like a three minute solo is too SHORT ?!

Only prog fans.

[7StringedBeast]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

It's not abrupt.  It's lazy song writing and DT is a band that has some of the greatest transitions from song to song historically.  I felt like they were just like, welp, we got nothing here, so fade out.

[Chino]

Also, the fade out of A new beginning has go to be the absolute biggest let down I have ever heard in music.   That groove and solo are so god damn amazing and then it just fades out?!  This, to me, feels like the most creatively bankrupt thing I have ever heard from DT.  I mean, what happened to figuring out transitions and making the music have flow?  God, this just let me down in ways I don't even understand. 

I've seen this complaint numerous times in this thread, and I'm not quite sure I understand it. This section is almost three minutes long, isn't it? The fade out really doesn't feel abrupt to me.

I actually had to go out and intentionally wait for it. I listened to the album five times without noticing it. I thought it flowed great.

[NunoTenniscourt]

I guess some fans are like disgruntled Dr. Phil guests. They need "closure".