Author Topic: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread  (Read 519494 times)

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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1015 on: January 31, 2016, 09:28:09 AM »
I can't imagine MM standing up to play and shouting " URRRRGHHHHH " into the mic.

I can.

It's pleasant to imagine.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1016 on: January 31, 2016, 09:28:59 AM »
::) So those Nomac eyes still do fuck all then ?

Offline RoeDent

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1017 on: January 31, 2016, 09:32:28 AM »
Someone should probably do some coding there, make them non-clickable. Otherwise there's just gonna be endless speculation.

Offline thosava

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1018 on: January 31, 2016, 09:41:16 AM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet: the part at 4:42 in A New Beginning sounds like a variation of the intro melody in TGOM.

The part in ANB is one of my favourite parts in the entire album! :hefdaddy

Offline ErHaO

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1019 on: January 31, 2016, 09:54:44 AM »
Anyone else noticed a general change to a more positive vibe in DT's music since Portnoy left? Particularly, there is more major-key music now. Before hearing the ending to Illumination Theory, for example, the only DT music in the key of C major that I heard was in Only A Matter of Time.

While I have no doubt DT's output would be very different if they still had MP, I am not looking much into the differing type of music and tone/mood post-MP DT has made. I mean, it is not like MP does not like rock opera's or happy, upbeat music. Just give the recent Flying Colors, The Neal Morse Band, and Winery Dogs discs a spin.

Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1020 on: January 31, 2016, 10:06:20 AM »
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

Also, loving the album. Such a breath of fresh air after DT12 and likely to break my DT top 5 if not top 3. I'm a massive Ayreon fanboy so this kind of album really appeals to me.
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Offline dparrott

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1021 on: January 31, 2016, 10:11:52 AM »
So many people hyped this up as being so great.  While I was let down by the hype of ADTOE, I was not by this album.  It's just as awesome as I hoped and many said it was! :) 
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1022 on: January 31, 2016, 10:13:43 AM »
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)

Offline Tomislav95

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1023 on: January 31, 2016, 10:26:01 AM »
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)
I have yet to explore 2nd CD but melodies on first one are IMO best they've ever done. I like catchy vocal melodies in rock/metal so I can see many songs off TA on heavy rotation on my music player.
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Offline Hypnotoad

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1024 on: January 31, 2016, 10:27:48 AM »
I just have this feeling that Our New World will be an encore track for many years to come. Such an up tempo feel good track.

Feels like it could be DT's The Spirit of Radio  :metal

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1025 on: January 31, 2016, 10:30:57 AM »
The tone of some of this reminds me of Static Impulse.

I've read a few people say that LaBrie has catchier vocal melodies on his solo albums.

Not anymore :)
I have yet to explore 2nd CD but melodies on first one are IMO best they've ever done. I like catchy vocal melodies in rock/metal so I can see many songs off TA on heavy rotation on my music player.


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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1026 on: January 31, 2016, 10:34:26 AM »
Must be a bug.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1027 on: January 31, 2016, 10:39:14 AM »
Since no individual song on The Astonishing is over 8 minutes - I wonder if they purposefully made DT12 shorter songs to test the water for this album.

Offline fischermasamune

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1028 on: January 31, 2016, 10:46:12 AM »
Since no individual song on The Astonishing is over 8 minutes - I wonder if they purposefully made DT12 shorter songs to test the water for this album.
JP said he had the idea for it while jetlagged while promoting the self-titled (interview for Eddie Trunk, 01/18/16). Of course it has mentioned (many times) they wanted to record a concept album even when MP was in the band, but the idea of a rock opera with short songs (by the DT stardard) probably wasn't in their mind.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1029 on: January 31, 2016, 10:50:59 AM »
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

I don't hear it, how so?
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Offline Mladen

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1030 on: January 31, 2016, 10:53:00 AM »
I didn't hear it neither, but you're not alone on hearing it, my friend told me that as well yesterday.

Offline Hanz Gruber

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1031 on: January 31, 2016, 10:56:56 AM »

I love many of Dream Theater's slow songs like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Another Day, Lifting Shadows, Hollow Years, Through Her Eyes, The Spirit Carries On, Solitary Shell, Goodnight Kiss, Along for the Ride, The Bigger Picture,  The Answer Lies Within etc.  I just don't feel like the melody and quality of these songs match the aforementioned songs.

See, it's interesting - I'm a big fan of DT's melodic side, and I feel these are easily some of the best ballads they've ever written. I do love Wait for Sleep and Far From Heaven, and the BTFW version of Space Dye Vest (the album version doesn't excite me as much as many others here, nor Disappear bar the ending, as I find it a bit of a grind). But I honestly think many of the ballads on the Astonishing blow away some of the others you mention.

But you've documented your stance really well, and how it may take more listens to click. I hope it does, as there is some real quality on this album. But if not, hey, that's the nature of us all liking different things.  :tup

I am glad that you like it.  Even though I am not the biggest fan of it yet I suspect that I will a lot more with repeated listens.  Even though I am not crazy about it yet I recognize that it is quality music.

I think the lyrics were a big part of what dragged it down for me unfortunately.

A big problem that I had with the first listen of the album was that there were tons of moments of awe and beauty within a song but it wasn't consistent. For example I think it was Savior in the Square...There were moments in the song that I really liked (The intro and then at the end when he starts singing about seeing an angel were great but parts in the middle I didn't enjoy as much. I had the same problem with many of the songs.  They had flashes of moments that I loved but within the same song other parts would drag it down. 

Act of Faythe was another one that was beautiful but I felt that it was kind of ruined by the "My Music Player" section.  I remember being into the song and then cringing (for real) when that part came up.

I suspect that I need to go through it again to digest it better
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 11:09:59 AM by Hanz Gruber »

Offline RJ86

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1032 on: January 31, 2016, 10:57:46 AM »
I have only had the opportunity to listen through this twice in bits and pieces, I like most of it. Some of the slower stuff could get boring over time and I can already see myself skipping over the nomacs stuff. But this is a pretty good release, overall.
I wish I had the time to devote to a full listen beginning to end. But my life no longer affords me that kind of alone time. Makes me sometimes miss the good ol' days of sitting in a dark room with a couple of beers and a set of over the ear headphones. Because, I really believe The Astonishing deserves that kind of attention.


Offline RoeDent

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1033 on: January 31, 2016, 11:43:57 AM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet: the part at 4:42 in A New Beginning sounds like a variation of the intro melody in TGOM.

The part in ANB is one of my favourite parts in the entire album! :hefdaddy

I'm sure that the start of the guitar solo in A New Beginning (when the simple drum beat comes in) is a variation on the "Brother can you hear me?" theme.

Also trying to work out if a passage in The Path That Divides is similar to a passage in the instrumental break of TGOM.

Offline thosava

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1034 on: January 31, 2016, 12:03:13 PM »
I'm sure that the start of the guitar solo in A New Beginning (when the simple drum beat comes in) is a variation on the "Brother can you hear me?" theme.

Can you post timestamp for this one?

Offline IceMan

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1035 on: January 31, 2016, 12:09:21 PM »
I've listened to the album now five times and my favorites as of now are:

A New Beginning
Moment of Betrayal
Begin Again
A Better Life
Brother, Can you Hear Me?
Ravenskill
The Path that Divides
Our New World
Chosen
Act of Faythe

Honorable mentions: A Tempting Offer, The X aspect, A Savior in the Square/When Your Time Has Come

It also seems like I have not very popular opinion, in thinking that the ballads are way stronger than the heavier stuff on this album
To really feel the joy in life
You must suffer through the pain
When you surrender to the light
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Offline Zook

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1036 on: January 31, 2016, 12:15:31 PM »
The beginning piece on A Savior in the Square (right before the fanfare comes in) flows nicely into Our New World.

Offline BlackInk

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1037 on: January 31, 2016, 12:16:48 PM »
So me and the band mates finally had our listening party last night. Blasted the album and had the lyrics on the TV screen. Finished a bottle of vodka during the listening, so Act II was a lot harder to focus on admittedly. But I listened through it again this morning to get a firmer grasp on what I really thought about the entire thing.

I have been kind of against the concept of this album for a long time, saying that it would be really cheesy and too cringy to be taken seriously. I was half right, it is definetely cheesy and a bit cringy at times. But I was pleasantly surprised by how much I still enjoyed the album once I could hear all of it. So yeah, I like the album. It's a massive step up from DT12, and while I think ADToE has better individual songs, I'd say that The Astonishing ranks higher as an album.

Also, I have not read any reviews or even posts here about the album before posting this, so these are my unaffected, pure first (two) impression(s) of it.

The Positive__________________________

I'll start with the things I liked, with a few album highlights in almost no particular order:

The "Evangeline" verse towards the end of A Better Life is really good.

Jordan's main keyboard melody from When Your Time Has Come is nice.

The intro to A Life Left Behind is awesome, probably a top 3 moment on the album.

While "please don't stop on my account" from A Savior In the Square is a really cool line, there's something about "DO AS MY FATHER SAYS!" that really stood out to me. I'm not entirely sure who is supposed to be saying that, but I'm hoping it's Faythe.

The entire groovy ending of A New Beginning is great, some of DT's best work in many years. Very FII-like.

 And last but the very opposite of least: The X Aspect. The "Gabriel has always been..." and "Evangeline, I swore to you..." verses are absolutely gorgeous and are in my opinion the best moments on the album by far. Fantastic.

There are a few I've forgotten I'm sure, but these are the ones that comes to mind right now.

The Negative__________________________

Mangini sounds like a robot. I'm sorry, I know it's been said to death, but it's just true, his dynamics on this album is bordering on what I would call "awful". I don't know if it's Mangini himself who's to blame, or someone else, but so much of his drumming just sounds off. The snare is pretty dull as well. Even my band mates kept mentioning this, and I didn't even need to push them. I will say though that the drumming does improve a bit on Act II.

There are too many effects on LaBrie's voice, to the point of almost becoming distracting at times. The intro to the track 'Ravenskill' is a pretty good example of how to use effects and make it sound good, but there are a few moments throughout this album where it just fails.

Unless I missed something, the NOMACS themselves were completely useless to the story. And that would have been fine, but now they made such a massive deal of these things that when they ultimately never affected the story directly in any way it was a bit disappointing. The story would basically have been the same if they weren't there.

The story and some of the character moments are very cheesy and frankly naive.

Act II was also much less memorable than act II. There were cool moments on II as well, but not as cool as those on I.

Overall Stuff_____________________

In the end I actually liked this album. It's really hard to single out specific tracks as favorites, since it all feels so connected, but I really like The X Aspect and Revenskill right now. We'll see if I get new favorites with more listens. The best NOMAC track is definetely Machine Chatter. I've actually listed to that quite a few times on it's own. It really sets a mood, just too bad the NOMACS were comepletely useless to the story.

So yeah, pleasantly surprised by a good album. Feels nice.

Offline Rickharris1011

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1038 on: January 31, 2016, 12:25:24 PM »
I think it is amazing that The X Aspect rarely been mentioned yet. When I first heard Dystopia Overture I immediately got goosebumps by 0:45-1:00 thinking and hoping the theme would return many times during the album. As far as I have noticed it is only returning in The X Aspect and by doing so making it my favourite song on the album. It should have been used as the main theme throughout the album IMO, it amazing. That being said, this record is unbelievable the way it is! My only real complaint is that the ending isn´t as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

Totally with you there.  The first couple of listens of X Aspect I thought about skipping then BAM - that melody!  It's not the same, but it relates so closely to the "Evangeline, you lived your life..." section of a "Better Life" - so maybe it's kind of like her theme...since she's you know...not actually alive in it.

Offline pdurbin22

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1039 on: January 31, 2016, 12:27:51 PM »
I haven't read through the entire thread so this might be nothing new but the intro to "A Savior in the Square" really reminds me of "Goodbye Blue Sky" by Pink Floyd. I can't be alone in this right?

Not at all - I thought the exact same thing! And of course, the intro to "Fade to Black" borrows four chords from "Goodbye Blue Sky"....but I digress...

Offline V_R11

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1040 on: January 31, 2016, 12:46:30 PM »
Reappearing themes I've found so far
Dystopian Overture 0:44 --> The X Aspect
Dystopian Overture 2:57 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Dystopian Overture 3:25 --> A New Beginning
Dystopian Overture 4:00 --> Astonishing
Act of Faythe 3:57 --> A Savior in the Square
Brother, Can You Hear Me? 3:05 --> The Road to Revolution
Ravenskill 4:12 --> When Your Time Has Come
The X Aspect 3:29 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
2285 Entr’acte 0:43 --> Lord Nafaryus
2285 Entr’acte 0:58 -->Three Days
2285 Entr’acte 1:15 --> The Road to Revolution
Losing Faythe 0:19 --> Chosen
Astonishing 1:23 -->, 4:31 --> Brother, Can You Hear Me?
Astonishing 2:13 --> The Answer
Astonishing 3:32 --> The Road to Revolution

Main Theme:
Dystopian Overture 2:28 -->
Lord Nafaryus 2:23 -->
A Savior in the Square 3:43 -->
Act of Faythe 1:06 -->
The Road to Revolution 1:49 -->
Astonishing 2:44 -->
Seasons change and so can I

Offline dparrott

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1041 on: January 31, 2016, 01:04:46 PM »

Unless I missed something, the NOMACS themselves were completely useless to the story. And that would have been fine, but now they made such a massive deal of these things that when they ultimately never affected the story directly in any way it was a bit disappointing. The story would basically have been the same if they weren't there.


I was thinking this too today.  I don't see how they're part of the story.  I'll have to read the story details on the website.
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Offline thosava

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1042 on: January 31, 2016, 01:08:47 PM »
Without the Nomac there wouldn't have been a reason for Gabriel to be the chosen one.

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1043 on: January 31, 2016, 01:10:18 PM »
Was it Nafaryus who created the NOMACs, or did they exist before him?
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Offline V_R11

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1044 on: January 31, 2016, 01:14:18 PM »
JP answered the NOMAC question in his AMA, saying they'd have a bigger role in the future novelization
Seasons change and so can I

Offline Lalin1974

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1045 on: January 31, 2016, 01:35:38 PM »
I think it is amazing that The X Aspect rarely been mentioned yet. When I first heard Dystopia Overture I immediately got goosebumps by 0:45-1:00 thinking and hoping the theme would return many times during the album. As far as I have noticed it is only returning in The X Aspect and by doing so making it my favourite song on the album. It should have been used as the main theme throughout the album IMO, it amazing. That being said, this record is unbelievable the way it is! My only real complaint is that the ending isn´t as epic as expected, given the size of this story.

Totally with you there.  The first couple of listens of X Aspect I thought about skipping then BAM - that melody!  It's not the same, but it relates so closely to the "Evangeline, you lived your life..." section of a "Better Life" - so maybe it's kind of like her theme...since she's you know...not actually alive in it.

Totally agree as well. I have listened through the album about 8 times now and that melody from 0.45 of "Dystopian Overture" that returns in "X Aspect" sets the tone for the whole album and I wish it would have recurred more. Kind of like the 2.25 theme of Overture 1928 of SFAM that recurres in One last time and Finally Free.

Offline theaterdream

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1046 on: January 31, 2016, 01:38:58 PM »
I finished the entire album once. Disc 1 one day and the other disc a separate day. Before mentioning by thoughts or opinion I must say I love their previous 2 albums (adtoe and dt) immensely.  I never really cared for Dream Theater's metal side. I always liked their more melodic atmospheric style more than straight on metal. Tot is their only album I mostly dislike followed next by SC and BCSL. Though, those latter albums each had a couple songs I like. With everything from the Mangini era I've been loving. It sounds like classic DT stuff. Like they went back to I&w and Awake for inspiration and started fresh from there.

With all that being said, The Astonishing to me is simply Astonishing! I had no problem with the production or sound on this album. Not at all like the last album. James Labrie's voice has been getting better with age in my opinion. The way he has sung on these last 3 albums he sounds like he's singing in a lower tone or something. Much, much better than the previous couple albums. Much stronger sounding lately. J. Petrucci and  J. Rudess sounded incredible. Very creative passages that I cant wait to hear again and discover new things on repeated listens, J, Myung had some awesome bass lines hereand i heard him much better in this mix. M. Mangini was great and the drum sound was fuller sounding.

I need many more listens to fully appreciate The Astonishings  beauty but after only 1 play through it truly is beautiful. I don't at all feel its too long. Maybe because I broke it up into 2 listens. It is melodic with some harder moments sprinkled in at very appropriate moments. It doesn't feel like the harder moments are there just to appease fans of their harder style. Just as the softer tracks are not their for fans like me who enjoy that. It all feels fresh and very deliberate to the story and characters. As I was following along in the included booklet with each track it really helped paint a picture of how the story was unfolding. That and their playing style really helped me connect with this album. For me, this album was melodic, atmospheric,  beautifully epic with just the right amount of harder moments. But, it all felt purposefully intentional.  The music fit the story, charcters and world they had created perfectly.

This album, for me, is easily in my top 3 of all DT albums. Many may disagree with me but on these last three albums I really have been enjoying the direction they have geen heading creatively. Very creative inspiring music.

Offline pdurbin22

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1047 on: January 31, 2016, 01:39:07 PM »
Something I really enjoy about this album that didn't hit me at first:

With this being a rock opera and the music needing to breathe in order to tell the story, there's not much room for extended jams and crazy musical passages. Part of what started to bug me about longer DT songs of late was the unnecessary inclusion of these long jams that stuck out like sore thumbs. The worst offenders for me are "Ministry of Lost Souls," "This Dying Soul," "Outcry," "A Nightmare to Remember," & "A Rite of Passage".

But with The Astonishing, these moments are few and far between making them all the sweeter. Stuff like the intro to "A Life Left Behind," the end jam of "Three Days," the middle/end jams of "A New Beginning" and the middle of "Moment of Betrayal" are so damn good because they pop up at just the right time when you need them. I really like that.

Offline Bacong

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1048 on: January 31, 2016, 01:41:08 PM »
I think this album is pretty awesome, btw.

Offline Malt Licky

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Re: *Official* The Astonishing discussion thread
« Reply #1049 on: January 31, 2016, 01:51:33 PM »
I have to get this off my chest: The Astonishing is extremely disappointing and underwhelming. In fact, it is very, very bad. I'm not saying this to provoke people or to anger them. Some background: I have been a DT fan for some time.

My favorite DT period---the DT Golden Years, if you will---is the album arc from Scenes From a Memory to Octavarium. After Octavarium, things started turning for the worse. Systematic Chaos, while it was a great album, was missing something. Something I cannot quite put my finger on, but whatever it was, it prevented it from reaching the heights that DT's previous albums had reached. BC&SL, while also an enjoyable album, was missing something, perhaps combined with a dose of lethargy, which left me quietly hoping they would refresh to deliver another great album in the future.

ADToE was actually quite good, and, besides some forgettable tracks (Build Me Up, Beneath the Surface, some parts of Outcry), had some stellar ones (e.g. Lost Not Forgotten, Breaking All Illusions). Then the self-titled album came out, and I was largely disappointed. The lethargy was back, and the creative spark was largely gone such that the album was a bit of a chore to get through, particularly Illumination Theory (though it did have some interesting sections).

The new album, however, is painful to listen to. I have given it 4 or so listens and still the tracks seem to fade into one another, blending into an indistinguishable gray mush of mediocrity. Gone are interesting instrumental sections and in are uninteresting choruses and sections that are 3 parts sappy, 3 parts cheesy, 3 parts pretentious, and 6 parts forgettable. The only tracks that are listenable and somewhat enjoyable are Moment of Betryal and The Gift of Music, but even these are weak. The rest is all so featureless, so forced, so uninspired, so mediocre, so forgettable. It is also missing a progressive element to it---it seems to be mediocre pop ballads with a second or two of some somewhat interesting riffing, quickly to revert back into the pop ballad phase. And Mike Mangini, as talented as he is, seems utterly absent, sounding like a hired gun rather than the band's rhythm heartbeat. It also doesn't help that the story is so uninteresting and dull, and, like the musical elements on display, utterly mediocre and forgettable.

I fear that every new album DT produces (sans ADToE) is one more piece of evidence that goes to show that Portnoy was right and that DT needed a break to refresh. I am very disappointed and hope that they can regain the elements that made Dream Theater great on the next album. For this cycle, it pains me to say that it is sad to see a once-great band be reduced to such a mediocre thing.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 01:57:34 PM by Malt Licky »