*Official* The Astonishing discussion thread

[Nearmyth]

Glad I'm not the only one with the 3 act mentality. I mentioned earlier it would have been cool to split it up by the NOMAC tracks, but after more listens the "3 acts" make much more sense.

Anyway, among this albums many many highlights - A Tempting Offer is one of the most intriguing, dark, disturbing, yet emotional tracks on the album. The piano at the beginning, the "he'll never want again" part. The ending with "I am through with being pushed aside" gives me chills. It's such a powerful and evil piece. You can almost sympathize with Daryus' struggle (even though he's a dick), yet it lets you know things are gonna go real south real soon.

[lovethedrake]

3 full spins in and finally got to take a drive and listen to the whole thing in the car. 

Act 1 is a 9.5/10 and Act 2 is a 7.5/10. 

Its a fantastic album.  Its honestly everything I want in a Dream Theater album and its what I feel we have been missing since SDOIT.

For those struggling with the ballads (I was one of them)  I think it really helps to focus on the lyrics and immerse yourself in the story for these tracks.  They become far more powerful and feel less like filler. 

My top 5 DT albums before The Astonishing was released were SFAM, I&W, SDOIT, Awake, FII.   Then there is a HUGE drop off IMO. 

The Astonishing has already dethroned FII.. which I thought would never happen and think it will likely dethrone Awake but as of now I have it safely in the #5 spot.    Will it dethrone any of the "big 3"?    Time will tell but its really tough to top SFAM or I&W.

[ErHaO]

Could they have told the entire story on one single CD though? Or did the story warrant a double CD?

They could have done 3 CD's if they had jammed a bit more. Any less than 2 CD's and we just wouldn't have gotten the DT soul injected in there, not enough room for detail.

Actually I think 3 CDs would have been perfect, it would have allowed them to balance the narrative:music ratio more fairly and satisfactory for the fans who are taken aback by the lack of DT feel.

i would've actually preferred 3 CD's to two tbh because
1. the CD split is really lopsided as is
2. they probably had to cut down act 1 a bit to make it fit onto 1 CD
3. 80 minutes at once is still a loooong album even without the other 50 minutes of act 2

It could actually go into 3 parts quite nicely too, as it only really has 3 proper "events" (or "scenes"? ) with the rest being setting up or character reactions to those:

Part 1 - Introduction and the meeting in the square (ends with Three Days)
Part 2 - Reaction to the meeting in the square, then the arrival of Faythe and Daryus in Ravenskill and the deals they attempt to strike there (ends with Road To Revolution, roughly)
Part 3 - The showdown at Heaven's Cove (essentially Act II as it is now)

Yep, me and a couple of others have said the same thing. Definitely should have been 3 acts.

Since I am not bound to the CD medium, I already made three seperate TA playlists like this, I think it works well.

[pcs90]

The ending with "I am through with being pushed aside" gives me chills. It's such a powerful and evil piece. You can almost sympathize with Daryus' struggle (even though he's a dick), yet it lets you know things are gonna go real south real soon.

Yeah, that ending is very chilling. Favoritism never seems to work out for everyone, so you can see after reading the information on the site why he feels the way he does. I can't justify his actions, though.

[noxon]

2 acts is because thats the broadway way...

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

They were very smart in the way this was written/recorded/mixed. This was absolutely and undoubtedly intended to be 100% a live show. The more I listen, the more I'm impressed. This is seriously huge. Things like this are the reason I'm so proud to call DT my favorite band.

[Peter Mc]

Ok, have listened to this twice through now and still need many more listens before making any final judgement.

For those people asking DT to do something different, they have certainly done that. There is stuff on here that you have never heard from them. As others have been saying, this is not just a concept album like SFAM, this is a full on musical/rock opera and there will be some fans who won't like this as these are kind of show tunes rather than straight up metal.

Early favourites for me are A Life Left Behind, which features a LTEesque intro and just gorgeous melodies, and also loving Three Days (especially the Bow Down To Nafaryus bits). Agree about the "my music player" lyric being cringeworthy but mercifully it only lasts for about 10 seconds.

Considering this is Petrucci's baby, there are a lot of songs on here where he doesn't take a solo which is highly unusual for him but the whole album is unusual. His intro to Saviour In The Square is just gorgeous though.

I will say that JLB is the star of the show for me, his voice is not massively different for the different characters but he just sounds absolutely fantastic. I always liked JLB as a singer but didn't fall in love with him until SFAM (I now love his performance on the previous albums as well). I think this may do the same for more recent fans. This is a career defining performance for me.

 I'm sure album will continue to grow on me, particularly Act 2 which, at the moment, seems the weaker disc.

I do think it will be the most polarising album in their catalogue for fans.

One thing that has slightly disappointed me is the album booklet and more particularly the artwork.  This isn't really a 'never enough' moment as it's not of massive importance and it's really my own fault.  I just remember people posting artwork from the artist responsible for the album art and we were all speculating how some of the amazing pieces looked like they were for TA.  I was hoping that these would show up in the booklet and on the 'Places' section of the site but alas they are nowhere to be seen.  Like I say, it's my own fault really for looking at the other artwork and jumping to conclusions but can't help being a little disappointed.

[Darkstarshades]

I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.

[jakepriest]

I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.

I still consider the whole "music player" part my favourite in the entire song, and it's one of my favourite songs on the first act.

[KevShmev]

To Kaipa fans, do you recognize the vocal melody near the end of Hymn of a Thousand Voices?  It is sort of similar to the one in Distant Voices (off Kaipa's Keyholder). I knew that sounded familiar the first time I heard it. 

[Mosh]

3 acts would've been way too much. Act II already has some filler moments and it isn't even an hour long, I can't even imagine how dragged out a 3 Act version would be.

I think the way it's divided is fine, but I don't think they wrapped the story up as gracefully as they set it up. Still way better than I expected.

[Progmetty]

I bet the 3 CDs option was on the table or crossed JP's mind at one point or another, act 1 indeed can easily be divided in two story wise.
I also bet RoadRunner would -or maybe did- say "no way Jose" to that idea.

[millahh]

2 acts is because thats the broadway way...

Almost always...I believe Princess Ida (G&S) is three acts...though that may be stretching the definition of "Broadway" slightly.

The musical theater is strong in this one.  I played in a bunch of pit orchestras in college, and there are definitely things that feel very familiar about the flow, and how it's put together.

I've had three runthroughs now, still processing it.  I think I like it...though it helps to not think of this in the context of anything else they've done.

[Progmetty]

I can't even imagine how dragged out a 3 Act version would be.

It would have allowed space for more music to balance the narrative and cater to traditional Dream Theater fans, not talking about myself.

[lovethedrake]

Does anybody else find the guitar solo in "When your Time has come"  hilarious?    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it but this is what i picture: 

Queen Elsa from Frozen singing "let it go" and then she hears some crazy noise and looks over the hills and sees Petrucci in a blizzard just rocking his ass off out of nowhere.   

I actually think that would make for a funny movie... a rock band infiltrates a disney movie which is actually sort of what The Astonishing is anyways.

I promise I did not take any drugs before this post so if it comes off like gibberish than I apologize

[Mebert78]

I just completed my second full listen -- once last night and once tonight, with some jumping around this morning. It definitely has its pros and cons, but wow -- what a beast of an album!

First, I gotta give Petrucci and the band huge credit for doing something so innovative and different. It's basically a full-on futuristic musical with character dialogue in the booklet and sound effects with the music, etc. The fact that they took such a challenge and risk is why I love this band so much. This is one of the most unique albums I've ever heard.

Last night I listened to the music without reading along and my initial reaction was that Disc 1 was too Jordan-heavy and slow in spots with the piano intros and interludes, while Disc 2 really shined a lot more. Tonight I listened while reading the booklet dialogue as well as the track-by-track description on their website that sets the scene and plot, and I found myself enjoying it a whole lot more. The music was fitting the tone of the story and it created a little "theater"in my mind. The pictures in the booklet and website help set the scene well too. The song flow and music choices were more understandable in that context and it was a fun experience. I even found myself getting chills at the climactic point of the story!

I need to listen more and let this whole thing sink in further before I make a judgment though. It's a lot to take in. Also, is it my imagination or does Petrucci's guitar sound a little thin on some of the heavier moments?

[dparrott]

Wow.  What a production.  Album of the year straight up, deserves a Grammy or at least a nom.  Don't think I'll put it above SFAM due the the amount of ballads, but its definitely 2nd.  I had a smile on my face the whole time, and while I may skip tracks, it doesn't mean they are not good.  Not a bad one on here.

I want to thank you all for preparing me for the fact that it's a rock opera and not a normal DT album.  Knowing the difference ahead of time helped me put the ballads in perspective and I didn't mind them.  Anyone who complains about how there are too many ballads doesn't understand what is going on here.  This totally sounds like a soundtrack to a play and I can totally picture it on stage.

One complaint is that I was expecting more distinction in the voices.  I know it's the same man, but he could have tried harder.  For example, in New Beginning, he goes from Faythe to Arabelle to Nafaryus in what sounds like the same voice.  Without reading the lyrics, it all sounds like the same person.

And what's with the complaints of "not enough metal"?  I heard plenty of it just in the first 10 songs!

What's with the fake crickets in Losing Faythe?  Sound effect CD's do exist, guys!

In Three Days, the speaking parts kind of sound like Dave Mustaine! haha

"My music player...my private paradise" I sure felt this way growing up, I always had headphones on with a fanny pack full of tapes!

[jayvee3]

I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music.

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.

I'm all over this album, as it's the side of DT that I'm particularly fond of, and really enjoying all the differing opinions. Many are praising 'Our New World', which I like, but I rank other songs higher like 'The Answer', 'Begin Again', 'Chosen', 'Ravenskill', 'A Better Life', 'Saviour in the Square/When Your Time Has Come' and 'Road to Revolution', which haven't really had much said about them. Thats really cool, and appears a real strength of the album as there's a little something for everyone. I've done a lot of listening in random order too, and feel that many of these tracks work more than fine standalone.

[Dream_Theater01]

Fantastic album.  It's incredible.

[devieira73]

Last night I listened to the music without reading along and my initial reaction was that Disc 1 was too Jordan-heavy and slow in spots with the piano intros and interludes, while Disc 2 really shined a lot more. Tonight I listened while reading the booklet dialogue as well as the track-by-track description on their website that sets the scene and plot, and I found myself enjoying it a whole lot more.

I strongly recomend this to anyone to fully appreciate this album. Specially the people not too good on english (like me) , that are connected with DT music mostly for the instrumental part and never cared too much for DT lyrics (again, like me).

[Dream_Theater01]

The album is already one of my favorite albums from the band.

[KevShmev]

I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music.

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.
 

Christmas outro...heh, that is one way to put it. 

[Crow]

why do so many songs sound like church hymns on this album

[Peter Mc]

I overwhelmingly disagree with the "music player" part being cringeworthy.
Thinking about the context and what it means, makes full sense.

I still consider the whole "music player" part my favourite in the entire song, and it's one of my favourite songs on the first act.

Hey, it's cool that you both like that part and I agree that it does make sense story wise. I don't know what it is but I just cringe every time I hear it. Have to say disc 2 has really grown on me as well. The big cringe moment on disc 2 though, for me at least, is the bit that I think is supposed to be Nafaryus and Arabelle crying. Again though, I just can't praise James La Brie enough for this album. Don't know how the hell he is going to pull this off live but I'll find out on opening night!

[fadetoblackdude7]

This album is a beautiful work of art from front to back. Best album since SDOIT hands down.

[Lucien]

Honestly, I like the "my music player" line. You all treat it as cringeworthy or out of place, but it really speaks to how terrible the world has become, that something like a little ipod is so valuable, and so emphasized musically. Upon the second listen I actually get goosebumps there.

[JMSE]

I'll be writing my review tomorrow but some thoughts:

- To take such a different direction from the last 6 albums is refreshing and much welcomed; especially when coming out of a streak of top 10 charts, and grammy nominations

- TGOM feels so much stronger coming right after the overture. The beginning is such a greater than life sound in the right context

- Saviour in the Square and When Your Time has Come are the mellow cousins of "The Mirror" & "Lie" as they go so well together one after the other

- Lord Nafaryous and Three days are just too much fun to listen to.

- MM is not the the attention grabbing drummer MP is (don't mean this as an insult by any mean). But then there are moments when a simple beat REALLY adds so much more: The heavy beat he plays in Ravenskill, the one he plays on a life left behind after the intro.

- A life left behind is among my favourite DT songs. The intro has a clear YES nod

- A new Beginning steals the show with the heavy riff at the beginning, and its 80s sounding solo.

- JP proved he not only shreds. His solos made me smile

- The album could have ended in Our New World (Are you kidding me with this song? holy sh*t!!!). But like many Neal Morse epics, I get why it closed with Astonishing.

- Gabriel The Astonishing is a fantastic nickname.

[pcs90]

Honestly, I like the "my music player" line. You all treat it as cringeworthy or out of place, but it really speaks to how terrible the world has become, that something like a little ipod is so valuable, and so emphasized musically. Upon the second listen I actually get goosebumps there.

Thank you! And, I would bet that some of the people complaining about that line also use music to take their minds off of other things, or escape reality for a while too, just as Faythe is doing...it doesn't only have to apply to the society created in the story. This is very common now.

[KevShmev]

I'll be writing my review tomorrow but some thoughts:

- To take such a different direction from the last 6 albums is refreshing and much welcomed; especially when coming out of a streak of top 10 charts, and grammy nominations

- TGOM feels so much stronger coming right after the overture. The beginning is such a greater than life sound in the right context

- Saviour in the Square and When Your Time has Come are the mellow cousins of "The Mirror" & "Lie" as they go so well together one after the other

- Lord Nafaryous and Three days are just too much fun to listen to.

- MM is not the the attention grabbing drummer MP is (don't mean this as an insult by any mean). But then there are moments when a simple beat REALLY adds so much more: The heavy beat he plays in Ravenskill, the one he plays on a life left behind after the intro.

- A life left behind is among my favourite DT songs. The intro has a clear YES nod

- A new Beginning steals the show with the heavy riff at the beginning, and its 80s sounding solo.

- JP proved he not only shreds. His solos made me smile

- The album could have ended in Our New World (Are you kidding me with this song? holy sh*t!!!). But like many Neal Morse epics, I get why it closed with Astonishing.

- Gabriel The Astonishing is a fantastic nickname.

Great post!

Totally agreed about Mangini. I love the simple beat during the last 2 1/2 minutes of A New Beginning.  No fills or anything crazy are needed there; just keep that great beat and let JP do his thing.

I'll admit I wasn't overly excited about The Gift of Music or Moment of Betrayal when hearing both before the release yesterday, but yeah, in the context of the album, both became pretty great.

What's funny is, even though this story was JP's baby, this album is owned by JLB and JR.  I know some were concerned that JP was making the band too much of his own, after how guitar-driven DT12 was and how the keyboards leads weren't as prominent, but I think this record tells us something else.

[ResultsMayVary]

Does anybody else find the guitar solo in "When your Time has come"  hilarious?    Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love it but this is what i picture: 

Queen Elsa from Frozen singing "let it go" and then she hears some crazy noise and looks over the hills and sees Petrucci in a blizzard just rocking his ass off out of nowhere.   

I actually think that would make for a funny movie... a rock band infiltrates a disney movie which is actually sort of what The Astonishing is anyways.

I promise I did not take any drugs before this post so if it comes off like gibberish than I apologize

Ok, what did you take?








Don't worry, I want some.

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

I'm honestly surprised by the fact that I enjoy this album more and more every time I listen. That typically doesn't happen once the newness wears off a bit

[BlobVanDam]

I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music.

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.

The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.

[Hanz Gruber]

Oh lawd, coming from another forum it's so refreshing to see people who don't like the album not being total bass soles about it. Props!

As cheesy and "Disney-like" as it is, I personally quite like it. It's great for what it is, don't see why people compare to other stuff the whole time. If people go about it like they would when it comes to The Wall or even a Steven Wilson record (these days), they 're just setting themselves up to not like it.

If they pull it off in a live setting, it will make for such a great show.

Over time a few tracks might be filler material for me but can't complain at all because there are just so many good moments in there. "Chosen" is my personal favorite, I'm surprised it hasn't gotten as many honorable mentions in here. It's like the "Let It Go" of this album. 

They took enough creative risks here (imo the biggest one being making this tour album-exclusive), at least you can't blame them for that.

Yep. I personally am not a big fan of it yet but I am glad that people are being civil about things  (Only had time for 1 listen so I may end up liking it better.)

I like that they took a risk but when some of the first lyrics that hit me are so cheesy it sets a bad tone.  "As fearless leader of the Ravenskill Militia.  The blood of warriors flows throughout my veins"  I don;t know why....those lines almost made me hit skip.

I applaud them for doing something risky and different but I could not get into it much on the first listen.  Dream Theater is my favorite band and I think their effort at a rock opera doesn't compare to what a band like Savatage has done over and over.  (Streets, Dead Winter Dead, Wake of Magellan)  Those albums are rock operas that have tracks that stand on their own.

I also have no problem with ballads or slow songs.  I like bands ranging from Testament, Megadeth, Slayer (older...Reign in Blood to Seasons in the Abyss) to slower bands like The Gathering and Anathema.   I am open to anything when it comes to rock.

I love many of Dream Theater's slow songs like Wait For Sleep, Space Dye Vest, Another Day, Lifting Shadows, Hollow Years, Through Her Eyes, The Spirit Carries On, Solitary Shell, Goodnight Kiss, Along for the Ride, The Bigger Picture,  The Answer Lies Within etc.  I just don't feel like the melody and quality of these songs match the aforementioned songs.

Hope it will grow on me but as of now it is my least favorite CD of theirs featuring JLB....not because he sang bad...because i just don;t dig many of the songs.

If it doesn't end up growing on me then I am sure I will love their next effort in a few years and I am still grateful for all of the quality music that they consistently pumped out over the years.  Looking forward to what is next.

Hell, maybe I don't have to wait.  Maybe with my next listen it will click (probably can't listen again until Monday unfortunately)

[jayvee3]

I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music.

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.

The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.

Thats cool mate - different strokes for different folks. I really love Act II though - Begin Again, The Path that Divides, The Walking Shadow, My Last Farewell, Losing Faythe and Astonishing are big highlights for me. It's actually the power of this album - so many different tracks and diversity that suits everyone a little different. 

[BlobVanDam]

I admittedly glossed over quite a few pages of this thread - too many to go through once I got home last night - but does anyone absolutely adore The Answer?  That is one of the best songs under two minutes I've ever heard.  Gorgeous little piece of music.

I agree wholeheartedly Kev... I wrote a similar thing a couple of days (and many, many pages) back. The Answer was one that jumped out at me immediately and I think sometimes may get written off as it's so short. But to me, it's 1:53 of seriously beautiful melody. I adore it's 'big brother' Begin Again too, and love the 'Christmas' outro.

The Christmas sound actually puts me off a bit there, and ever since I haven't really enjoyed that melody elsewhere on the album because it reminds me of that. There are a few Disney type things like that in Act II that make me prefer Act I (not that I have a problem with happy or Disney, I just didn't like that particular sound or melody). Our New World and Astonishing are probably the only things on Act II I like at this point.
Act I is another story though. Still digging much of that a lot.

Thats cool mate - different strokes for different folks. I really love Act II though - Begin Again, The Path that Divides, The Walking Shadow, My Last Farewell, Losing Faythe and Astonishing are big highlights for me. It's actually the power of this album - so many different tracks and diversity that suits everyone a little different. 

Yep! And there's still plenty of time for the rest to grow on me.