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Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: 2016 MLB Thread - FLY THE WORLD SERIES W FOR THE CHAMPION CUBS!!!  (Read 51587 times)

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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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2015 Thread - https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=43353.0

Ken Griffey Jr and Mike Piazza, two of the greatest players of their generation will be going to Cooperstown! Full results can be found here: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605588-2016-bbwaa-hall-of-fame-election-results-announced


What is the state of your team(s) heading into 2016? How do you feel about the moves made thus far in the offseason.  I'll bump this again when pitchers and catchers report.  :metal
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 10:47:57 PM by Destiny Of Chaos »

Online King Postwhore

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 05:54:12 AM »
I saw a tweet from Sports Illustrated with both of them on the cover.  Very cool! 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 05:56:03 AM »
Jim Edmonds only got 2.5% of the vote?  How terrible.  Just goes to show you that voters don't give a crap about defense, considering Edmonds is one of the best defensive players of any position of the last 20 years, while still being really good offensively.

Offline TAC

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 06:23:30 AM »
Jim Edmonds only got 2.5% of the vote?  How terrible.  Just goes to show you that voters don't give a crap about defense, considering Edmonds is one of the best defensive players of any position of the last 20 years, while still being really good offensively.

I agree. he's the opposite of Piazza. I still cannot believe Piazza got in. To me, him and Maguire are equals.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Mebert78

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 09:42:10 AM »
As a lifelong Mets fan, it's so great to see Piazza get in.  He gave us everything he had and provided many intense and exciting moments for us as fans.  And who can forget the post 9/11 home run against the Braves. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 09:44:53 AM »
Yeah, I don't know about Piazza either.   But I seriously want to have a conversation with the three guys that DIDN'T put Griffey, Jr. on their ballot, just to ask "why".  Not suggesting they should have, but wanting to know how they got there.   

I think of all the players that got metaphorically "robbed" in the steroids era, he was the one.   His numbers are just insane, given that he has not even had the whiff of impropriety, yet he was playing against (and hitting against) a league at the height of it's disregard for PEDS. 

Offline masterthes

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 12:03:04 PM »
Two well deserved entrants. Much respect for those two

Offline Dream Team

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2016, 12:34:39 PM »
Piazza's defense was under-rated; he couldn't throw well but the other aspects of his game were solid, and he's the best hitting catcher ever. Agreed Kev, Edmonds got robbed - far more worthy than several others on the ballot who received many more votes.

Offline splent

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2016, 08:24:15 AM »
If any of the 3 didn't vote for him just so it wasn't unanimous they shouldn't vote anymore
I don’t know what to put here anymore

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2016, 08:28:28 AM »
Baseball Hall of Fame voters are the worst, anyway.  THE worst.

I don't think Griffey Jr. was so awesome that he should have been the first to ever get 100%, but this idea that some voters won't vote for anyone the first time because they don't think anyone should get an unanimous vote is the dumbest thing ever.  I like the idea I heard the other day: if you are someone who doesn't vote for someone who gets 95% or more of the votes, you should lose your voting privileges.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2016, 08:34:41 AM »
Griffey is more deserving of a unanimous vote than any hitter in recent years.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2016, 08:46:01 AM »
I disagree.  Bonds is more deserving (I don't give a crap about steroids or any of that nonsense, since I figure that most ball players do something to get an edge).

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2016, 08:55:50 AM »
I don't care about steroids per se. A shitty baseball player isn't going to suddenly turn into Barry Bonds because he starts taking steroids. I believe the talent has to be there for the steroids to enhance. Garbage in, garbage out. That sort of thing.

Unfortunately though, his records are tarnished because of his "alleged" use. He was a good player before he started taking them, and I'd say bullshit to anyone who said he didn't, so the foundation was there to be improved upon. Using the straw man in your argument,("most ball players do something to get an edge"), is where I call bullshit though. That's not a good excuse to prove your case because it's completely non sequitur.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2016, 09:03:09 AM »
That's fine. I will just leave that aside then and say that I don't care about steroids or PEDs.

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2016, 09:24:55 AM »
Just for the record, I don't hate Bonds. Watching him play during those dominant years was a once in a lifetime experience.  I just think he was foolish for screwing up an amazing career. Look at the names of some players who will most likely not get into the Hall because of their usage of PEDs: Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, A-Rod, Sosa... That's what upsets me more.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2016, 10:37:46 AM »
What about the guys being held back for pure third hand speculation? Piazza should've been a first rounder but you have these self righteous morons with the mindset of "we'll let him suffer for a few years because he may have done something" that are part of the BBWAA. I think every vote should be public and any person that abuses their vote should get their voting rights revoked permanently. No more only filling out two or three names, no more "well this guy has enough support so I'll vote this other person", no more "well this guy must've been on something even though I have no proof", none of those piss poor excuses.

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2016, 10:55:12 AM »
It's such an arduous task to find completely objective thinkers. There are always going to be voters who select a couple of favorites when those votes can go to actual deserving candidates. It would be great if the fans actually had a say in this. I don't mean having it set up like the All Star voting. That's just a sham most of the time. Instead, let fans apply for voting status. Make them have to pass an examination in order to be considered that displays their knowledge of the game and what constitutes a deserving member of the Hall of Fame. I know it's idealistic but the fans are what make all of this possible, not some guy in a suit pushing papers around. It would be more genuine I believe. Sure, you might get a couple of voters that'll select favorites, but fans of the game, true blue fans, know the game better than most of the current voters. 

Offline lonestar

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2016, 03:02:09 PM »
Last three even numbered years the Giants have walked away with a ring. Shall we make it four?

:GiantsMetal:

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2016, 03:04:01 PM »
Last three even numbered years the Giants have walked away with a ring. Shall we make it four?

:GiantsMetal:

It's a Bi-nasty!

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2016, 03:18:18 PM »
Too bad it wasn't odd numbered years. That would make it an....Odd-yssey.    :neverusethis:

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2016, 06:13:58 AM »
Chris Davis is staying in Baltimore. Hell to the yeah!

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2016, 07:25:40 AM »
Too many years, way too much $$$.

Wow...Angelos finally dipped into his MASN money.
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2016, 08:30:24 AM »
Too many years, way too much $$$.

Wow...Angelos finally dipped into his MASN money.

I agree. Not the best contract, but nice to see Angelos spend that money.

If only we can get some pitching.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 08:46:32 AM »
Maybe the Mets can sneak in and actually sign Cespedes now.

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 10:15:29 AM »
Too many years, way too much $$$.

Wow...Angelos finally dipped into his MASN money.

That'll bite him in the ass eventually.

Offline splent

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2016, 04:27:47 PM »
Last three even numbered years the Giants have walked away with a ring. Shall we make it four?

:GiantsMetal:

Not if the cubbies have anything to say about that.
I don’t know what to put here anymore

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2016, 05:44:47 PM »

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2016, 06:38:59 PM »
^
Chaos....ain't that the truth!?!?  Good ol Peter O won the bidding war....against himself!  I wish they'd have gotten Cespedes and a pitcher.

Oh, and kudos to Griffey and Piazza.  Sadly, now I gotta wait and hope the Veterans Committee votes Alan Trammell some time soon, as he is off the regular ballot.  WS MVP, beat out Ripken and Yount more than a few times for Gold Gloves and Silver Slugger awards, 8th best SS per Bill James, and part of the duo that turned the most double plays in history.  He deserves a spot (as do Morris, Mussina, and Schilling before their 15 years are up).
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Mr. Ister

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2016, 09:26:57 AM »
Regarding the HOF vote, I'm confused how steroid suspicion keeps guys like Bonds and Bagwell out, but not Piazza, Frank Thomas, etc.?  And for my money a guy like Mike Mussina is just as likely to have used them.
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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2016, 09:52:18 AM »
Can you really say the alleged usage by people like Bonds and Clemens are on the same level as Piazza's alleged usage?

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2016, 11:59:59 AM »
Clemens was in court and Bonds was investigated by the government for their steroid connections. Piazza is in the "well he looks like a guy who mightve done something so to me he did" category. Huge difference.

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2016, 12:05:49 PM »
That is precisely my point. I don't know how any rational person can compare them.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2016, 12:07:51 PM »
It's cherry picking.  We have no idea how much any of those guys used, and saying, "Well, I think this guy probably used and this guy probably didn't," is totally arbitrary. 

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2016, 12:13:36 PM »
We do have the ability to delineate some of the suspected users however, so it's not completely arbitrary.

Offline Mr. Ister

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Re: 2016 MLB Thread - Griffey Jr and Piazza headed to Cooperstown!
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2016, 01:16:19 PM »
It is arbitrary.  Using physical appearance (when most guys looked like they used them) or legal cases based on breadcrumb trails that are not in any way comprehensive is a narrow-minded way of looking at the problem.  Most guys in baseball used steroids.  Why wouldn't they?  When you think about it, it'd be stupid for them not to, especially when they weren't illegal.  It's intentionally naive to oneself to think that it's less likely that guys like Piazza or Bagwell used steroids compared to Bonds.
But if the dung comes out
He shits the death upon a man
Throw them a rag
Better to save the menstruate
Then surrender tuna sea crap
Whale!