Author Topic: 2016 Roulette Championship v. THE CONCLUSION  (Read 107046 times)

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Offline Bolsters

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 1/3
« Reply #525 on: February 15, 2016, 07:37:02 PM »
Mr. Red has told me that his writeups/results should be in by tomorrow.

Offline Bolsters

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 1/3
« Reply #526 on: February 16, 2016, 07:49:58 PM »
Quote from: Mr. Red
senecadawg2      Ludovico Einaudi - Divenire
Holy crap. This is absolutely beautiful. I loved every single moment of it. It reminded me of "A Kaleidoscope of Mathematics" by James Horner from the movie A Beautiful Mind, that same type of buildup and intensity and beauty with the piano as the forefront accent. My favorite piece of the entire roulette so far.


Scorpion      Fanticide - My Regret
This piece really had some promise, I enjoyed it, I loved the singer... the mysteriousness and foreboding nature of the entire piece really grabbed me... then about halfway through I heard these harsh vocals going back and forth with the singer and I'm like wtf... the harsh vocals were BAD.... they didn't sound good at all... I'm not a fan of harsh vocals anyway, but if they are used correctly I'll tolerate them... this sounded like someone dying. The rest of the piece was good, but I couldn't get past that. Maybe I'm being too anal. I don't know.


wolfking      Fates Warning - Monument
This piece was puzzling to me. It wasn't particularly bad, it just felt dated... hard to put exactly what I mean here... like I couldn't tell if they were trying to sound like today or 1987. Like I said, it wasn't bad at all, I did like it. What's with the random last 30 seconds of music that sounded like MIDI music on the computer? Again that sounded really out of place...


jingle.boy      Dec Burke - Promised
I did like this piece overall. Nothing really stood out, but I really like the buildup, the guitar solo, and the background synths throughout the entire piece. The vocals fit perfectly.


Sacul         Alter Bridge - Blackbird
Another piece that I enjoyed but didn't really have anything that stood out to me that made it particularly memorable. That said, I really enjoyed it a lot and wish that more rock sounded like this. All the elements of the piece fit together really well. I loved the mix of the rhythm guitar with the melodic guitar as the piece went on as well as the intensity of the vocalist... the last guitar solo was subtly fitting.


Nekov         Lights & Motion - Drift
Oooooo another piece that I really really enjoyed. The simplicity and repetative nature of it, yet elements quietly kept being added to it to pique my interest. Again, this sounded like something I would have heard in the climax of a movie. I really enjoyed it.


Evermind      Roger Waters - It's a Miracle
I'm going to be honest and say I listened to the studio version a few times before I read "It's the live version" just because the links don't work on my phone when they are posted in my email, so I just search and add it. I was going to originally rate this 3/5 but I enjoy the live version a LOT better than the studio version. It seems more... intimate. I think Waters sound better here too.

Offline Sacul

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #527 on: February 16, 2016, 08:23:03 PM »
Yeah I didn't expect you to love it, but to me the epicness of the chorus is what makes it stand out - don't worry, I've got tons of stuff for you, Mr Red.

Btw, will you reveal us your identity after the championship ends? I feel our tastes are quite compatible and would like to share some more stuff with you  :P

Offline senecadawg2

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #528 on: February 16, 2016, 08:25:33 PM »
On the one hand I'm really happy you enjoyed the song, Red!

On the other hand  :censored that I sent it during a Green round, when Tyrias clearly didn't enjoy it as much as you.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #529 on: February 16, 2016, 08:39:57 PM »
So long everyone.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline 425

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #530 on: February 16, 2016, 11:59:06 PM »
Alright, now the pressure is actually on me.

Should be tomorrow from me.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Scorpion

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #531 on: February 17, 2016, 12:39:28 AM »
Dammit, it's a shame that such a short passage in a 7+-minutes song drags it down so much for you, but I get that. It's not rare for me to find songs where I like lots of things and small details that seem like they should be insignificant just sort of end up having a way bigger impact than I feel they should.

I still think you'd enjoy the album, some of the most song-oriented prog and some of the best prog lyrics that I've heard from the last five years. The harsh vocals are few and far between, except for Your Betrayal - even though that song call for those vocals, I still doubt you'd like it, given your misgivings about the harsh vocals.
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Offline Tyrias

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #532 on: February 17, 2016, 12:49:49 AM »
Reading through red's write-ups, the comment on the harsh vocals is what I disagree with the most. As harsh vocals they suck, but they excel at conveying that emotion of rage and guilt that they're going for imo.

Offline Crow

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #533 on: February 17, 2016, 01:27:45 AM »
i'm just going to be really surprised if red isn't one of the fogeys

actually i really hope red is like, bosk or something
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 01:33:59 AM by Parama »

Online Evermind

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #534 on: February 17, 2016, 01:59:20 AM »
Actually. the live version of my song is much better and that's why I sent it. I specifically asked Bolsters if it's forbidden and apparently it wasn't, so yes, please rate the live version, not the studio one.
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Offline Bolsters

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #535 on: February 17, 2016, 02:12:05 AM »
I've been sending the judges the correct versions of songs, but apparently they have been looking up the songs I didn't send Spotify links for on Spotify anyway. I'll have to start hitting them with rolled-up newspapers or something. :lol So from now on I will explicitly state when I am sending alternate/live/whatever versions of songs so that they're listening to the proper song from the beginning. It probably wouldn't hurt if people also informed me when they submit such songs, aswell.

Offline Nekov

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #536 on: February 17, 2016, 05:47:29 AM »
This looks good so far, not as good as the first 3 rounds but hopefully I can still keep an advantage.
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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #537 on: February 17, 2016, 08:40:54 AM »
i'm just going to be really surprised if red isn't one of the fogeys

actually i really hope red is like, bosk or something
I really doubt it will be any of the fogeys, since he hasn't liked much of the prog/power metal sent on the championship. His tastes seem a bit hipster tbh :P

Offline Nekov

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #538 on: February 17, 2016, 08:50:25 AM »
i'm just going to be really surprised if red isn't one of the fogeys

actually i really hope red is like, bosk or something
I really doubt it will be any of the fogeys, since he hasn't liked much of the prog/power metal sent on the championship. His tastes seem a bit hipster tbh :P

I agree, none of the fogeys like post rock  :lol
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Offline 425

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #539 on: February 17, 2016, 11:33:42 AM »
I've been sending the judges the correct versions of songs, but apparently they have been looking up the songs I didn't send Spotify links for on Spotify anyway. I'll have to start hitting them with rolled-up newspapers or something. :lol So from now on I will explicitly state when I am sending alternate/live/whatever versions of songs so that they're listening to the proper song from the beginning. It probably wouldn't hurt if people also informed me when they submit such songs, aswell.

Bolsters, the Spotify track code you sent us for Evermind's submission definitely goes to the studio version. Just saying.

I've done three writeups. I'm going to be busy for the next couple of hours, but then I'll come back and do the remaining four. So I would say that I'll post my writeups in about 3 hours.
And if spirit's a sign,
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Offline Tyrias

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #540 on: February 17, 2016, 11:40:11 AM »
Yup, the Spotify link for Evermind's song is definitely a studio version. I'm willing to listen to the live version and correct my score though (you should be aware that it will also go down if I like the live version less).

Offline 425

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425 Does Six Writeups and a Rant
« Reply #541 on: February 17, 2016, 02:28:45 PM »
Alright, here are some writeups, at long last.

I agree with Tyrias that this was a round that was on the weak side. Not a huge dip in quality; there will still be several songs getting good scores here as usual, but a) there isn't a standout and b) there are several songs that I really felt like could have been more. So while there are 7 songs here that are at least good, it felt disappointing to me, as the bottom three really felt like they had potential but that there was something missing, while one of the top three... well, just read ahead to what we call "425 Does Six Writeups and a Rant"



Evermind: Roger Waters - It’s a Miracle

Okay, here’s the deal for me about Roger Waters. I like a lot of his music. I have tremendous respect for his talent. But personally, I really dislike the guy. Almost everything he says publicly is really just unpleasant in my opinion. It’s the whole sense of being so proud of how cynical he is about “society.” It really annoys me, and I just personally do not like him.

This wouldn’t ordinarily bother me. Listening to The Wall, who cares, because, though it’s an aspect of the story, it’s not the dominating aspect of the whole thing. But on this song, he’s just so… in my face about how anti-corporate, anti-establishment and cynical he is. I don’t think a song ever needs to name-drop “Pepsi” and “McDonald’s,” and I don’t see why we need a long sequence describing Andrew Lloyd Webber’s fingers being broken. Some people can put aside lyrics and score the song just based on music, but I can’t do it. It’s not like I’m strictly juding the quality of lyrics, but if there are lyrics that annoy me, yeah, you’re going to take a hit. And, to be really frank, this song takes a big hit for the lyrics, because I really actively dislike them.

That said, musically, this is probably the best song of the round. Waters is undoubtedly a brilliant composer, and while he’s not a spectacular singer, he knows how to use his voice to achieve the desired effect in his own compositions. This song is musically really awesome, actually. The atmosphere is brilliant, the subtle instrumentation very good and the vocal melodies all excellent. So, yes, with better lyrics, this could potentially be among the best scores of the whole thing from me. But I can’t do it because the lyrical content is so obnoxious to me and is so in my face that it actively and significantly detracts from my enjoyment of the song.

Listening to the live version, it is there are ways in which it is somewhat better than the studio version. The piano just pops better live, and Waters’ voice works better in this setting, for whatever reason. The choral vocals and the sparingly used drums also jump out. I think some of the atmosphere is lost, or, rather, altered, by placing it on a concert stage, which is why I’m not going to say that the live version is heads above the studio version, but it is probably better. It’s a really fine live performance and recording of a really good composition. I’m definitely convinced that this song deserves a good score, which it will receive. But those lyrics. With different lyrics, man, this would be in the top three or four songs of the whole roulette.


jingle.boy: Dec Burke - Promised

This is an interesting song that I really don’t know how to categorize in terms of genre. I don’t care too much about genre, though, anyway, and the song itself is actually quite cool. There’s a really nice atmosphere created with some synth playing of some sort that is accompanied by some pretty lovely acoustic guitar playing. There’s some good guitar soloing later.

And, just for everyone else’s reference, if you want to really find a male singer that I’m pretty much guaranteed to like, someone like this is a good type to try. I love soft emotive male vocals like this guy’s. There are some nice vocal melodies here, and he really just sounds great on most of them. I particularly like the soft chorus that repeats about two-thirds of the way through the song.

This song isn’t an absolute stunner, but it’s very nice as an understated, unassuming little song that works with a strong sense of atmosphere and incorporates some nice vocal and guitar passages. I quite enjoy this sort of thing.


Nekov: Lights & Motion - Drift

Okay, this is a really cool song. Totally blends genres, like a couple other songs this round, but this is the best results of such a blend in my opinion. There’s just something really awesome about the way this one goes through a series of themes, ebbing and flowing in intensity through each one in succession. I guess there’s a lot of different instrumentation going on here, and it all works together really well to achieve some different musical effects in the song.

My favorite theme is the second main one, after the first loud and intense part, when it comes down to just the piano melody. That’s an awesome motif and I love how they build off of just the piano to add in all the different electronic instrumentation and eventually string parts on top of that one motif.

Also, this song does not overstay its welcome! It’s the shortest song of this round by a pretty wide margin, and I found that to be a good thing, because some of the songs here just felt a little too long for me. This is definitely one of my favorite entries of the round.


Sacul: Alter Bridge - Blackbird

So undeterred by my middling impression of Being Human, Sacul sends another roulette favorite. Well, this one I actually like better, so it worked out.

This is a classic example of song that really oscillates well between loud and soft, which is something that I like quite a bit. I like the clean guitar on the verses, and then, of course, that chorus is pretty massive. The singer is pretty good, not amazing, but very powerful, which is good. He makes these choruses very strong. The guitar solo is nice as well, though not extraordinary. I really like the build in intensity over the course of the song as well, so that’s good.

But here’s the thing, which seems to be a running theme of this round: Does this song need to be 8 minutes long? I hope this isn’t just something that happens to have been bothering me for the past few days because I’ve picked on so many of this round’s songs about it, but I can’t help think it here. I just feel like a song like this that’s more in the 6-7 minute range, maybe, would be a bit stronger?


Scorpion: Fanticide - My Regret

Well, this is undoubtedly an emotionally charged song. The slow soulful guitar work is very nice, as is the vocal interplay done by the female vocalists. The one who does the part of Innocence, in particular, has a very pleasant, soft voice.

There isn’t too much variation here, for a pretty long song. There is a nice buildup near the end that makes up for some of that, but I still think that the song might benefit from being a little bit shorter, but that’s one of those things where I could easily see my mind being changed if I listened to the full album.

I also am not really keen on the growls. Since they’re only in here for like five seconds, they don’t kill the whole thing for me, but I just don’t really think they work in this particular song. They do detract a little bit, and so between the growls and the slight issue I had with length, I did go for the lower of the two scores that I was debating between. There are definitely things to like here (and it’s cool to know that it was actually made by a DTF member, because it really is nice stuff), but like another song from this round, I felt like there was a little something missing. Maybe in the context of the full album…


senecadawg2: Ludovico Einaudi - Divenire

Okay, so seneca sends both the first and the second entry of string music into the roulette championship, both to Tyrias. While the first one wasn’t really a huge hit with me, I liked Divenire quite a bit, ranking it among my favorite entries of the round.

Honestly, this and Drift do a lot of the same things well, even though this is a piano-and-strings only piece while that one is everything but the kitchen sink instrumentally. Both of these songs introduce a variety of themes and use an ebb and flow to great effect. Here, I really like the interply between the piano and the string instruments, especially in the more intense parts of the song, where you can hear the strings move forward and start to overtake the piano. Which isn’t to say that the soft parts aren’t beautiful, because they absolutely are. I really love the piano work here. This one is just a beautiful piece of music through and through, and is probably my favorite entry of the round.


wolfking: Fates Warning - Monument

Fates Warning is, of course, a band that I know of, though I don’t know them very well. I did receive a song from them in my roulette, which was The Eleventh Hour, and which did alright.

This song is definitely an interesting one. For every part where it sounds a little like generic prog metal, there’s another part that is totally its own thing, so credit for that. However, musically, a lot of these parts I just consider to be alright, and the whole thing is not the most cohesive song ever. The intro is good and the vocal parts are solid (the singer himself is not my favorite, stylistically, but he’s good enough), but a lot of the riffing just isn’t really anything special. I do like the clean guitar part in the instrumental section. The end of the song seems to come out of nowhere and, while it’s certainly interesting as a change of pace, it kind of seems tacked on? I don’t know what that’s all about.

Overall, I feel like there might be something I’m missing here. Maybe this song works better in the full album context? Regardless, it’s a good song with some twists, only some of which work, that fails to transcend just good for me.
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Offline Scorpion

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #542 on: February 17, 2016, 02:33:22 PM »
As you say, it really does work better in the context of the album, and I guess I see where you're coming from with the length. Glad that you still liked it. If you want to have a listen, check out https://fanticide.bandcamp.com/album/the-fall-of-grace.
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Offline Sacul

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #543 on: February 17, 2016, 02:41:02 PM »
To be honest, it lasts exactly what it needs to last imo. Never felt it was too long, only that it  :metal all the way through.

But worry not, I have something right up your alley next round, 425  ;)

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #544 on: February 17, 2016, 02:43:09 PM »
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline senecadawg2

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #545 on: February 17, 2016, 03:08:31 PM »
Great!

Looks like solid-to-great results all around, even if not targeted at the right judge
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Offline Tyrias

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #546 on: February 17, 2016, 03:25:41 PM »
I'm curious now, do 425 and mr red know a lot of or at least some classical music? Cause I'm pretty sure I'd have rated Divenire higher if I wasn’t familiar with quite a bit of classical music. It’s the comparison to some other pieces that killed it for me (well, not killed it, but lowered my opinion on it).

Also, I've decided to have my next round be themed as "female vocalists". That should be a bit of a challenge, while not being terribly restricting. Also, since we're getting closer to the final showdown then, a bit of a challenge should be nice.
Some remarks on that: the female vocalist or vocalists need to be a lead singer (or in some other way be at the center of the song, e.g. of you want to send a choir piece it should be obvious that there are female singers in there, but there doesn't have to be a lead singer.) I'm not forbidding male vocals, but the female vocals should have at least an equal share over the duration of the whole song.

So, save your female vocalists for round 7  ;).

Offline 425

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #547 on: February 17, 2016, 04:40:48 PM »
I don't know much classical music. A few pieces.
And if spirit's a sign,
Then it's only a matter of time

Offline Sacul

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #548 on: February 17, 2016, 04:47:25 PM »
I'm curious now, do 425 and mr red know a lot of or at least some classical music? Cause I'm pretty sure I'd have rated Divenire higher if I wasn’t familiar with quite a bit of classical music. It’s the comparison to some other pieces that killed it for me (well, not killed it, but lowered my opinion on it).
I don't see how that makes any sense :P

Offline Big Hath

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #549 on: February 17, 2016, 06:40:10 PM »
I'm curious now, do 425 and mr red know a lot of or at least some classical music? Cause I'm pretty sure I'd have rated Divenire higher if I wasn’t familiar with quite a bit of classical music. It’s the comparison to some other pieces that killed it for me (well, not killed it, but lowered my opinion on it).
I don't see how that makes any sense :P

it doesn't make sense that he knows similar pieces that do what that one does, just better?
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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #550 on: February 17, 2016, 07:24:40 PM »
425 agrees with me about blackbird, i'm glad i'm not crazy in that regard then. song's too long.

Offline Bolsters

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #551 on: February 17, 2016, 07:47:05 PM »
Bolsters, the Spotify track code you sent us for Evermind's submission definitely goes to the studio version. Just saying.
Yup, the Spotify link for Evermind's song is definitely a studio version. I'm willing to listen to the live version and correct my score though (you should be aware that it will also go down if I like the live version less).

I recall when Evermind sent that it was the live version and thinking that I needed to pass that on since when I searched it on Spotify I only found the studio version (Red tells me there was a live version on Spotify, but it must not be available to me in Australia). So if I did send a Spotify link to you of the studio version, that's my fuck up. I must have forgotten to send the Youtube link when I passed it along.



The scoreboard as of the end of Round 4:



Start sending the next round now.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 04:48:21 PM by Bolsters »

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #552 on: February 17, 2016, 08:02:51 PM »
wow rip wolfking

Offline Sacul

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 2/3
« Reply #553 on: February 17, 2016, 08:20:11 PM »
I'm curious now, do 425 and mr red know a lot of or at least some classical music? Cause I'm pretty sure I'd have rated Divenire higher if I wasn’t familiar with quite a bit of classical music. It’s the comparison to some other pieces that killed it for me (well, not killed it, but lowered my opinion on it).
I don't see how that makes any sense :P

it doesn't make sense that he knows similar pieces that do what that one does, just better?
Yes. I believe one should rate a song by how much you enjoy it on itself, indifferent if you've heard better tracks on that style. Knowing 'better' songs is a matter of appreciation - the tune doesn't change, only your perception of it. While I get that knowing more stuff in that vein makes it easier to judge and understand it, it shouldn't be a matter of "oh this is nice but it ain't [better song], or [better song], therefore it doesn't deserve a higher score than this".

Damn, looks like I may have a chance to get to the next tier!  :o

EDIT: Ok, choosing between 3-4 tracks, will send in a few hours, or tomorrow.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 08:40:55 PM by Sacul »

Offline wolfking

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #554 on: February 17, 2016, 09:29:32 PM »
Wow.  I would never have expected that Fates Warning would have been so poorly received.  Oh well, good luck everyone.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #555 on: February 17, 2016, 09:30:51 PM »
Wow.  I would never have expected that Fates Warning would have been so poorly received.  Oh well, good luck everyone.

I never would've expected that Chad's "AMF" would've been so kindly received  :lol   Had to look that one up.
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Offline Bolsters

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #556 on: February 17, 2016, 09:40:53 PM »
I'd say the only person who looks like they're definitely out at the end of Round 6 is Kade, who is very unlikely to dig himself out of that hole unless he both does well in the remaining two rounds and someone else screws up. However, it's close enough through the middle that anyone else could end up in the second elimination slot - Nekov is probably the only person that need not worry about it.

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #557 on: February 17, 2016, 09:44:39 PM »
I'd say the only person who looks like they're definitely out at the end of Round 6 is Kade, who is very unlikely to dig himself out of that hole unless he both does well in the remaining two rounds and someone else screws up. However, it's close enough through the middle that anyone else could end up in the second elimination slot - Nekov is probably the only person that need not worry about it.

Hang on wait, do I have to send again?
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #558 on: February 17, 2016, 09:46:50 PM »
Hang on wait, do I have to send again?
There are eliminations after every three rounds. You have to send again two more times. :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: 2016 Roulette Championship v. R4 results, part 3/3 - SEND ROUND 5
« Reply #559 on: February 17, 2016, 09:48:28 PM »
Hang on wait, do I have to send again?
There are eliminations after every three rounds. You have to send again two more times. :lol

Fuck.

Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.