Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*

[TioJorge]

Agreed. There's even more evidence piled up on that but that's a huge one.

I'll truly be flabbergasted if she's not at least related to him in some way.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

One of the bigger cues for me was Han's facial expression and reaction to when they arrived on Takodana when Rey said "I didn't think there was so much green in the whole galaxy". It almost looks like some sense of guilt on his part.

Not to mention the part when Maz questions Han "Who's the girl?" as if she somehow knows that he has an answer beyond just "some chick who stole back my ship".

Also, Han quickly offering her a job aboard the Falcon, despite not supposedly knowing her for long. He seemed almost intent on keeping her close to him.

There's most definitely a lot of cues to suggest that she's in some way related to Luke (or Han even) and if that's the case, I think they did a pretty good job in this movie in giving us those hints without being so overt about it (with the slight exception being the "lightsaber calling to her" bit).

[Zantera]

One thing I didn't think about before, if Han knows about Rey and that she is Luke's daughter, maybe that's part of the reason why he offers her a job on the Falcon. Because really, Han Solo/Chewie has been rockin' it for decades just by themselves, and bringing someone else in would be slightly contradictory to Han's character (I can do this myself, I don't need help), but could be explained if he felt guilt and knew about Rey.

[T-ski]

something about the ending seemed so familiar to me, and now I know why....

[CrimsonSunrise]

One thing I didn't think about before, if Han knows about Rey and that she is Luke's daughter, maybe that's part of the reason why he offers her a job on the Falcon. Because really, Han Solo/Chewie has been rockin' it for decades just by themselves, and bringing someone else in would be slightly contradictory to Han's character (I can do this myself, I don't need help), but could be explained if he felt guilt and knew about Rey.

I thought of that too, him offering a job and softening up too her.  After really watching those scenes the 2nd time I saw a couple things.   When he first sees her in the hold for the first time, through the whole time till they get plantside, he shows absolutely no sign of recognizing her.  He genuinely seems to like her more and softens to her as she exhibits her piloting/Mech skills, and love for the Falcon. 

[Accelerando]

So how awesome would it be if Captain Phasma was actually Mara Jade and was the mother of Rey, former lover of Luke? Can a fan boy just dream?

[Zantera]

So how awesome would it be if Captain Phasma was actually Mara Jade and was the mother of Rey, former lover of Luke? Can a fan boy just dream?

Personally I wouldn't like it because we don't need to shrink the universe more than we're already doing. I would still think that IF Rey is the daughter of Luke, they would tie his wife/Rey's mother into the reason why Luke left. I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren killed her, and that's part of why Luke felt responsible and left, knowing that revenge would lead to the dark side.

[CrimsonSunrise]

 I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo Ren killed her, and that's part of why Luke felt responsible and left, knowing that revenge would lead to the dark side.

Interesting.....  never thought of that factor/angle.  Seems plausible that Rey's mother/Lukes wife, was killed by Ren's betrayal.  Something that traumatic could affect Luke so dramatically that he'd lose his drive.

[BlackInk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNAy7yCMyBw

I don't even.

I mean, sure some points have merit, but he presents stuff that I didn't even feel was of any real importance as being the things that makes it super bad.

He can dislike it all he wants, I just disagree with what he says with almost every atom in my body.

[Zantera]

I don't know, even if he brings up some interesting points, as soon as I hear "Why TFA is worse than the prequels" I'm done and I switch off.

[orcus116]

Is it just another angry EU fan?

[jingle.boy]

I don't know, even if he brings up some interesting points, as soon as I hear "Why TFA is worse than the prequels" I'm done and I switch off.

I got about 4 seconds into the link before closing it.

[jammindude]

Ya...I got about halfway through it, but I'm actually growing bored with the invented "plot holes" people are making up.   He's basically reading off the list of "40 unforgivable plot holes in TFA" that's been circulating.    I read through that list once, and I started to address them one by one before I got to #12, realized that the creator of the article had obviously never seen the movie and was just trolling, and so I got bored and just walked away.    But now it seems like some people who just barely glanced at the film are starting to feed on the invented plot holes just for the sake of being hipsters.

I was among the people who defended the prequels when they were new...but I was not (nor did I know anyone who was) saying that the prequels were better...or exceeded my expectations.    I heard the majority of people say straight away that there were some real problems.   I was a defender in the sense of saying that they had the same problems that the OT had (like for instance, some issues with bad dialog), but we're not 10yrs old anymore.     But I was wrong.  The prequels are wooden, horribly scripted, horribly directed, and just mostly really bad storytelling.    It focused all on world building and gave us completely 2-dimensional characters that were impossible to relate to. 

TFA does borrow the framework from the OT, but the characters themselves are so well written and so multi-layered, that I honestly wouldn't care if they had borrowed even more "window dressing" than they already did.    The characters themselves are strong enough to survive the somewhat derivative story line.   And the dialog and character interaction is easily the best of all 7 films. 

Sorry, but this guy is inventing stuff...or at least, listening to people who are inventing stuff.   

[Zantera]

I think the problem today is that people are more cynical and are looking for reasons to hate on something instead of just taking it at face value. If you dig deep enough you can poke holes in just about anything. The original trilogy are not perfect, and you can find plot holes in them as well, but they were made in a time when we viewed films differently, and many of us also watched them when we were kids, so we couldn't really analyze them in that way. But I see a lot of people online criticize TFA for having similar plotholes that ANH had, it's just easier to overlook those.

Overall though, I think no matter how good or how original this film would have been, there would still be a group of people leading the "TFA is the worst SW film" crusade, because some people work that way. A guy on my Facebook has been saying for 2 years that TFA would suck and that it would be the worst SW-film simply because Disney bought the rights, and he went on to talk about how they would make it family-friendly (because the old movies weren't family friendly right?) and surprise surprise, he posted after seeing the movie how bad it was. Some people are just lost causes, they decide to go in negatively from the start, and once you do that, you will find those problems you are looking for.

[Kotowboy]

George Lucas doesn't like The Force Awakens.



Thank fuck.

[Enigmachine]

George Lucas doesn't like The Force Awakens.



Thank fuck.

He does like it, though.

[ariich]

Yeah, he already gave it his stamp of approval. He's made some comments about it being best that he's not involved as his approach is very different to the approach that they are taking now, but never that he disliked the film.

[Kotowboy]

He may have done at first ? I've read sports since then that it's too retro or whatever.

He said something like " It's a movie that Star Wars fans will like ". Something he can't say about at least the last 3 - and depending on who you ask - the last 4.

I found it pretty amusing that he sold Lucasfilm and then wanted control of the sequels anyway 

[Pragmaticcircus]

Imagine if this was in an alternate reality, where we had the original star wars. The movie would be called: The Adventure Of The Starkiller episode 7 - The Bogan Awakens  no joke!

[King Postwhore]

I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes.  He's not the market.

[Zantera]

I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes.  He's not the market.

This. Especially considering him being proud over the prequels, it's hard to trust his judgement.

[Enigmachine]

I don't care what Lucas likes or dislikes.  He's not the market.

This. Especially considering him being proud over the prequels, it's hard to trust his judgement.

TBH, I'd be proud of the prequels. TPM I can take or leave, but I think AotC and RotS are genuinely really good in my eyes. RotS especially is probably nearly level with the OT. Some of the acting across the films is questionable, but the overall plot is well done as well as the visuals and action (although TPM is patchy with this). They're obviously not perfect, but neither are the OT films or TFA. Also, what's with the George Lucas hate? If it wasn't for him, Star Wars wouldn't exist.

[Zantera]

There's more to be proud of with TPM than AotC IMO. AotC is not only a worse film, but with TPM you at least had the visual effects which were revolutionary for its time. Now those films look like cartoons because they relied way too much on CGI, and CGI gets dated so fast. But at the time it was great effects. AotC was kinda more of the same, but only worse and had the worst romantic subplot in history. RotS was kinda more of the same again, but at least has some redeemable parts.

[Kotowboy]

Saying Revenge Of the Sith is the best prequel is like saying " I ate three turd pizzas but the third one was the best as it had fewer turds on it "... 

[Zantera]

It's the best by default because it has a few good things (Anakin turning) but I would still say it's fairly mediocre as a movie, it's just that RotS is maybe a 5/10 whereas TPM and AotC are closer to 2/10. RotS still suffers from a lot of the same problem the other prequels have. The final lightsaber duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan is my least favorite duel in the whole franchise because it goes on for 4 hours when it could have been a great 5 minute fight. General Grievous is also such a typical prequel-character. Why does he need 4 lightsabers? He goes out after taking a blaster hit in the chest, after another long fight which feels kinda pointless after how easy it's resolved.

[jammindude]

Saying Revenge Of the Sith is the best prequel is like saying " I ate three turd pizzas but the third one was the best as it had fewer turds on it "...

[jammindude]

...and because of the zero character development in the first two, it makes those "relationships" falling apart completely pointless in RotS.   I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out.    There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.    These characters had these relationships because the movie told us they did.   The storyteller did not develop those relationships so that we felt them as an audience.    Truly terrible storytelling.   Not emotionally engaging in the least. 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't hate the prequels, but I do think they make the original trilogy less enjoyable in some ways, so I don't own them and haven't really watched them in years. I did make an exception and saw ROTS leading up to The Force Awakens, and while I enjoyed it, I don't see myself watching it again anytime soon.

[Enigmachine]

I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out.    There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.

This was all established in AotC.

There's more to be proud of with TPM than AotC IMO. AotC is not only a worse film, but with TPM you at least had the visual effects which were revolutionary for its time. Now those films look like cartoons because they relied way too much on CGI, and CGI gets dated so fast. But at the time it was great effects. AotC was kinda more of the same, but only worse and had the worst romantic subplot in history. RotS was kinda more of the same again, but at least has some redeemable parts.

The CGI looks really good in AotC and RotS to me. TPM looks a bit shoddy sometimes with the some of the alien species and the battle droids in the fields looking quite fake. IMO the next two improved on this a lot.

[jingle.boy]

I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out.    There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.

This was all established in AotC.

If by "established" you mean "attempted", then yes, you're correct.

[kaos2900]

Went to my third showing with the wife on Saturday. I'm getting more and more convinced that Rey is not Luke's daughter but was just a very talented student. I'm guessing that Kylo Ren knew a she escaped which would account for him seeming to know her. Also, Snoke has to be Plagius. I never really focused on his wicked scar on his head. Looks like a deadly injury.

Also, this is now my favorite Star Wars movie. Just keeps getting better and better with each showing.

[senecadawg2]

Unfortunately many of the things that people complain about in the prequels are still very much present in the OT. Generally unimpressive script? Check. Underwhelming acting jobs from the leads (Hayden and Mark)? Check, though I suspect most will argue father was much better than son, in that regard. And while I agree that the basis for the Anakin-Padme love is largely unfounded from the audience's point of view, I could also make a similar argument about Han Solo-Leia.

Look, I'm not saying that the Prequels are better than the OT; I prefer the OT. It just bothers me a bit when I see people shit on the prequels time and time again for many of the same things that plagued the OT. Because frankly, as far as the quality of story telling goes, I don't think the OT is that much better than the prequels. From where I'm sitting, both of them (OT much moreso than PT, for obvious reasons) excel at world building, but not necessarily story telling.

Which is why TFA might be my favorite of them all. Or at least, up there with Episode V. I saw it for the first time this past week, after rewatching the OT for the umpteenth time, and had to go back the following night for more details. Really well done, on so many levels. I'm not going to scroll through all eleven pages that I've missed, but I'll assume that I'm agreeing with people when I say that the new characters are intriguing, that Kylo Ren in particular is a fantastic villain struggling with his villainhood, that I'm looking forward to seeing most of the OT characters phased out even more, that Rey seems likely to be the daughter of Luke (but maybe a little too likely), that light saber duels in a snowy forest are fantastic, and that I have high expectations for Ep. 8 now that the more derivative foundation has been set.

[jammindude]

I never saw Anakin and Obi-Wan become friends, so there was no basis for their falling out.    There was no romantic basis between Anakin and Padme, so when she said he was breaking her heart, it was completely meaningless.

This was all established in AotC.

If by "established" you mean "attempted", then yes, you're correct.

Yes. That's it exactly. We were more told this through exposition than allowed to watch it develop for ourselves. And what was played out was not the least bit emotionally engaging to the vast majority of the audience. Even supposed romantic scenes played off more creepy than romantic. No basis at all to believe they loved each other. It was terrible.

Han and Leia's relationship was more electric. It all played out more like foreplay. And the scene where they kiss on the Falcon is much more based in the emotional interplay between the two characters ever since they first met. And it was acted extremely well. Quite steamy actually.

[BlobVanDam]

Unfortunately many of the things that people complain about in the prequels are still very much present in the OT. Generally unimpressive script? Check. Underwhelming acting jobs from the leads (Hayden and Mark)? Check, though I suspect most will argue father was much better than son, in that regard. And while I agree that the basis for the Anakin-Padme love is largely unfounded from the audience's point of view, I could also make a similar argument about Han Solo-Leia.

To be fair, it also wasn't a major plot that was supposed to drive an entire trilogy either. It didn't need to be as developed as the Anakin / Padme one was supposed to be. It was something that played out naturally in the dynamic between the characters, not something that was set up from the start to develop over 3 movies to be the driving force behind major turning points in the story. If you can't manage the most basic believability for a critical relationship in 6-7 hours of film, you've done something very wrong.

Sure, the OT isn't perfect, but the big difference is that the movies succeeded as films despite their shortcomings (to the point that most people don't notice or care about them), rather than failing miserably directly because of them.

[gmillerdrake]

Sure, the OT isn't perfect, but the big difference is that the movies succeeded as films despite their shortcomings (to the point that most people don't notice or care about them), rather than failing miserably because of them.

This......nailed it.