Star Wars, The Force Awakens -- *SPOILERS*

[hefdaddy42]

I never had a problem with Ackbar. 

[Orbert]

I accepted him, the same way I accepted the aliens on Star Trek that were obviously actors with prosthetics stuck on their faces, but every time he was on screen, he was the dude with the fish-head mask first, a character second.  I expected cheesy prosthetics from Star Trek; from an actual theatrical release I guess I expected more.

[hefdaddy42]

I never had that problem.  He was just Ackbar.

[bosk1]

Same here.  Except we just referred to him as Uncle Ack.  And he liked it that way.

[BlackInk]

but compare him to -- for example -- Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Carribean movies.  Full-on seafood-faced dude with moving tentacles and everything, and somehow when I watch him, it never occurs to me that it's CGI.

This was always one of my favorite uses of CGI for a character. A tricky one too, and in my opinion they did it incredibly well.

[bosk1]

Agreed.

[BlobVanDam]

I never had that problem.  He was just Ackbar.

Neither did I. I think because in context he never stood out against any other similarly made charactersin the OT, and they didn't have him too prominent in the new movie.
The funny thing is, the CGI characters all stuck out to me in TFA (Maz, Snoke, etc), while the ones done with masks/prosthetics/puppetry all blended in nicely. I think I'm just used to the Star Wars aesthetic of the OT.

[bosk1]

I didn't really get the criticisms about Snoke's appearance.  I mean, all we ever saw was a hologram, so he is supposed to look computer-generated.  I never thought he looked any different than I would have expected him to look.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't buy the excuse that he's supposed to look computer generated, because it wasn't even revealed right away that he was a hologram at all, and it's a lame excuse that really has nothing to do with why he looked bad. The holograms in the OT looked just fine (just blue and like an old CRT )
That said, if they bother to improve on him in later movies when shown in person, I would begrudgingly accept it as head canon.

[bosk1]

Why did he need to be "revealed" as a hologram, when it was obvious that he was a hologram?  I'm not sure what the beef is.  He looked pretty much like the holograms in the other movies.  That is how holograms look in the Star Wars universe.  What's the problem?

[BlobVanDam]

I don't know about the PT, but he didn't look like the holograms in the OT at all, not even "pretty much". They were always transparent, blue tinted, had a scanline overlay, used additive blending, and did not fit with their environment. This is all consistent with them being projected light, ie a hologram.
Snoke was 100% opaque, fully integrated with the scene lighting and volumetrics, and contiguous with the scene geometry, consistent with actually being there in every single way. It wasn't until later when they showed a brief flicker that it was made known to the audience he was a hologram. Until then, it appeared as if he was a giant dude, with the full extent of his large size and nature being a point of speculation before the movie came out.

So the problem is that he didn't look good, and didn't look like a hologram. But aside than that...

[jammindude]

(shrug)  I never for a moment thought he was a "giant dude"....I figured he was a hologram from the first moment he appeared.

I also had no issue at all, and was totally shocked when I saw other people having an issue. 

[bosk1]

(shrug)  I never for a moment thought he was a "giant dude"....I figured he was a hologram from the first moment he appeared.

I also had no issue at all, and was totally shocked when I saw other people having an issue. 

Yeah, same here.  Blob's explanation aside, he looked exactly like the holograms in the OT to me.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, zero similarity aside, they looked exactly the same.

[TioJorge]

I'm with Blob, I had so many thoughts running through my head like "WHAT FUCKING RACE IS THIS DUDE!?" and wondering why a race of humongous godlike giants was just being revealed and then the flicker came and I was like "Aw shit, got me good".

I don't know how it was obvious but uh...cool to those who noticed it. I thought it was supposed to be trickery and I think the random as hell flicker at an opportune moment (which just so happened to not happen until that point, when he was still mysterious and initially unveiled) is a pretty good indication that they at least wanted to fool people even if you geniuses saw right through it. You smart fother muckers.

[BlackInk]

I didn't even notice the flicker. I didn't know he was a hologram until he faded away completely. As for his look, I personally don't find it as "bad" as some say, but I agree that it sort of stands out next to all the practical stuff.

[RuRoRul]

The original Emperor Hologram:


The prequel Emperor Hologram:


The Supreme Leader Snoke Hologram:



If you think that those look exactly the same, then honestly I would say it is just a case of your mind deceiving you because you are aware they are all holograms (or you are partially blind).

Having said that I didn't have a problem with Snoke's CGI appearance - it didn't look like a guy in a rubber mask but I thought it looked all right, the fact that it was a hologram and he is meant to be kind of in shadow also kind of excuses any obviousness of the CGI a little to me. Plus I thought it was quite a cool and relatively fresh design choice to have the hologram appear realistic and initially present him as an actual giant (if briefly).

[BlobVanDam]

Snoke looks pretty awesome in still frames, but in movement he looked off to me. I think it was the eyes and the mouth movement, two of the most difficult areas for CG faces.
I liked what they did with the hologram, it was very different, and added to the mystery of Snoke and who/what he is. I read that he's supposed to be 7' tall, but technically he could be any height at this point.

[jammindude]

It wasn't so much the look for me as it was the set up.   The entire environment felt so much like Vader addressing the Emperor for the first time in ESB, that I just took it for granted immediately.     The method of addressing your superiors by that method had been so well established in both the OT and the PT, that it just seemed completely obvious. 

And while there is certainly a more "rabbit ears TV" type of lower quality to the older transmissions, Snoke still (to my eyes) had a transparency to him...like I could tell right away that he wasn't really there.   

Like they improved the technology over 20 years....big deal. 

[BlobVanDam]

He wasn't transparent in any way from what I can see, maybe it was the smoke (lol snoke smoke) that gave it that feel.
But yeah, since the setup was so obviously paralleling Vader/Palpatine, it probably was played with some ambiguity.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, it's the same.  It's just that Snoke is in HD, while the Emperor had to settle for SD.

[BlackInk]

In the first two, the Emperor is lit like he's in another room, like there's a different light in the room he's broadcasting from. Snoke is lit like he's in the room with the others. So that's a big difference.

[RuRoRul]

The setup was exactly the same, but the original holograms were blue and transparent, while Snoke (while perhaps appearing slightly fuzzy or off) was definitely not transparent or blue - except for the "flickers" which was what confirmed him as a hologram.

For example, here is the Emperor hologram in the OT from the "remastered" version:



That is the exact same style of hologram - transparent enough that you can see through him, blue, and somewhat grainy - done with improved visuals. Snoke is absolutely not in that exact same style - in the picture I posted you can even see that the light doesn't pass through him, he is not blue.

Here, I think, is Snoke during the "flicker"; first you have the solid form, natural colour version:

 which briefly flickers to become like the old familiar, blue holograms:

(Unfortunately there aren't many good images online).If Snoke always looked like he did when the hologram flickered then it would be essentially the same style, but he didn't.

Plotwise there is no difference between the setup (reporting big projection of the evil supreme leader / emperor), but to say there is no difference between the style of the hologram (one transparent and blue, one solid and in natural colour) apart from one being in HD seems just to be missing the obvious (or being deliberately obtuse).

[BlackInk]

seems just to be missing the obvious (or being deliberately obtuse).

This reminds me of another discussion

[hefdaddy42]

‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’ Practical Effects That You Thought Were CG [Interview]

Short excerpt of a longer piece to be published next month.  Neat info.

[BlobVanDam]

Cool. I thought the food thing was CGI when I saw it. I figured the big red walking robot was CGI too, but hadn't given it too much thought. The other creatures mentioned I knew were practical.
I'm interested to see what else.

[BlackInk]

That the bread was practical is really cool, because I always loved how perfecetly real it looked. Turns out that was because it was. It was like when I saw BB8 for the first time, I remember posting here that "that must be some of the most genuine CGI I've ever seen". It just proves that even though we've gotten this far with what we can computer animate, nothing quite beats the real thing yet.

[bosk1]

It wasn't so much the look for me as it was the set up.   The entire environment felt so much like Vader addressing the Emperor for the first time in ESB, that I just took it for granted immediately.     The method of addressing your superiors by that method had been so well established in both the OT and the PT, that it just seemed completely obvious. 

And while there is certainly a more "rabbit ears TV" type of lower quality to the older transmissions, Snoke still (to my eyes) had a transparency to him...like I could tell right away that he wasn't really there.   

Like they improved the technology over 20 years....big deal. 

Exactly.  Glad somebody gets it rather than taking what I and others have said out of context.

...which briefly flickers to become like the old familiar, blue holograms

And, again, exactly right.

[orcus116]

That the bread was practical is really cool, because I always loved how perfecetly real it looked. Turns out that was because it was. It was like when I saw BB8 for the first time, I remember posting here that "that must be some of the most genuine CGI I've ever seen". It just proves that even though we've gotten this far with what we can computer animate, nothing quite beats the real thing yet.

My mother was stunned when I told her BB8 was an actual thing that they built.

[BlackInk]

Yeah, my dad too. It took us a while for him to even believe us.

[jjrock88]

Saw the regular version few weeks ago. Going back next week to watch it in again but in 3D

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Yeah, it's the same.  It's just that Snoke is in HD, while the Emperor had to settle for SD.

First Order Technology >>>>>> Empire Technology

[Phoenix87x]

Stumbled across this today. Surreal

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

That's one of the best things I've ever seen.

[jingle.boy]

Emo Kylo Ren is a hoot:



He's even a music snob: