Poll

I already asked it!

Hillary Clinton (democrat)
21 (27.3%)
Donald Trump (republican)
17 (22.1%)
Gary Johnson (libertarian)
15 (19.5%)
Jill Stein (green)
6 (7.8%)
Another third party candidate/write in
1 (1.3%)
Not sure yet
7 (9.1%)
Not voting
10 (13%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author Topic: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?  (Read 17422 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #175 on: July 30, 2016, 08:14:54 AM »


Hillary is who I'm likely voting for. Do I like it? Not at all. But she's the most qualified of all the candidates and least likely to bring the country backwards. At least with her in office the possibility of some of Bernie's stances will get put into place, especially since many of them are now on the DNC platform.

Expect many of those to get chucked out the window once Clinton is elected.  She'll give lip service to the Bernie fans to get their votes from now till November, but won't go out of her way to do his bidding once the election is over.

I asked this question in the other thread and am still wondering, which of Bernie's stances got adopted to the DNC platform? 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #176 on: July 30, 2016, 10:59:27 AM »
Anyone who follows me on FB knows that I think Trump is a xenophobic racist misogynistic bully, so there's 0% chance I'm voting for him. I can't stand the man. I can't wait for him to get destroyed in the debates.

Gary Johnson has about a 10% chance of me voting for him. He seems to be the strongest 3rd party candidate in a long time, but I disagree on too many of his views.

Jill Stein has about the same. I agree with her more, but she's too wishy washy on too many issues and has too little political experience, like trump, to make me comfortable in world politics.

Hillary is who I'm likely voting for. Do I like it? Not at all. But she's the most qualified of all the candidates and least likely to bring the country backwards. At least with her in office the possibility of some of Bernie's stances will get put into place, especially since many of them are now on the DNC platform.

Legitimate question, though it may not sound like it, asked because I am wrestling with this very question.

How does Trump get the extremely partisan "xenophobic racist misogynist bully" label and Clinton gets the "I like her least"?  Where's the "lying, cheating, treasonist, opportunist"? 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #177 on: July 30, 2016, 06:05:48 PM »
Trump brings it on himself with his mouth. I mean, how can anyone defend his response this week to what that father said about his son who died in battle? You simply cannot.  Trump showed what an asshole he is, once again.  Now, him "being real" like that is why he appeals to a lot of people, while Clinton still plays the "holier than thou" game, and that act from politicians in general has grown tired for a lot of people, which I think is why many are overlooking Trump's major faults.  See, this is what happens when we get two candidates this poor.

Along the lines of media bias, this week was a good indicator of the biases if you watched the three big major new channels. Fox did everything they could to not give the DNC too much credit for putting on a good show (emphasis on the word SHOW) and often times cutting away at poignant moments, while CNN was basically a bunch of cheerleaders for Clinton (plus that blonde lady who served as the token Trump fan) and MSNBC was the Hillary Clinton Show as well.  What's odd is CNN can often times do a decent job at hiding their bias, but when push comes to shove, they can't help themselves.  Neither Fox nor MSNBC never hide which way they both lean (heavily, in both cases).

Offline splent

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #178 on: July 30, 2016, 08:35:45 PM »


Hillary is who I'm likely voting for. Do I like it? Not at all. But she's the most qualified of all the candidates and least likely to bring the country backwards. At least with her in office the possibility of some of Bernie's stances will get put into place, especially since many of them are now on the DNC platform.

Expect many of those to get chucked out the window once Clinton is elected.  She'll give lip service to the Bernie fans to get their votes from now till November, but won't go out of her way to do his bidding once the election is over.

Which is why it's more important to get progressives into the senate and the house. If something progressive passes in both branches of congress,
Trump would veto it, but Clinton would sign it.
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Offline Jaffa

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #179 on: July 30, 2016, 08:55:59 PM »
Not sure yet.

I will say this: I cannot imagine myself voting for Donald Trump.  So unless something changes pretty drastically between now and November, I'm probably going to vote for whoever seems to have the best chance of defeating him.  Which means I'm probably voting for Hillary. 
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #180 on: July 30, 2016, 09:03:40 PM »


Hillary is who I'm likely voting for. Do I like it? Not at all. But she's the most qualified of all the candidates and least likely to bring the country backwards. At least with her in office the possibility of some of Bernie's stances will get put into place, especially since many of them are now on the DNC platform.

Expect many of those to get chucked out the window once Clinton is elected.  She'll give lip service to the Bernie fans to get their votes from now till November, but won't go out of her way to do his bidding once the election is over.

Which is why it's more important to get progressives into the senate and the house. If something progressive passes in both branches of congress,
Trump would veto it, but Clinton would sign it.

That can be a good or a bad thing, depending on what the issue is, since I do not adopt the "all things progressive are good and must pass" mantra.  :big grin:

But along those lines, the many Republicans not supporting Trump are probably fine with him losing so long as they keep control of Congress. That is always the biggest problem for Democrats: they never seem to turn out for the mid-terms like they do for presidential elections.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #181 on: July 31, 2016, 11:05:51 AM »
Obviously Gary Johnson for me. People tell me that just puts more votes in Trump's column which is pretty fucking retarded. However, if it means more votes for Trump I'm fine with that, too. Anything but Billary Clittin. She's everything wrong with politics today.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #182 on: July 31, 2016, 12:19:57 PM »
Anyone who follows me on FB knows that I think Trump is a xenophobic racist misogynistic bully, so there's 0% chance I'm voting for him. I can't stand the man.

Legitimate question, though it may not sound like it, asked because I am wrestling with this very question.

How does Trump get the extremely partisan "xenophobic racist misogynist bully" label and Clinton gets the "I like her least"?  Where's the "lying, cheating, treasonist, opportunist"?

I think it's because "lying, cheating, opportunist" applies to all politicians, so it's redundant to mention, "treasonist" is conspiracy theory BS when you're serious, however "xenophobic racist misogynist bully" are not redundant in politicians, although they definitely exist o'plenty but they're usually closeted, so when you get one that is openly saying things that subscribe under these labels, it's okay to point him out cause he's pretty rare in his field.
I also think the word "partisan" is sneaking in cunningly to replace the term "PC" in discussions now, of course it doesn't mean the same thing but it still does that "you're saying things I don't like and that's not fair" effect, Trump is a xenophobic racist misogynist bully, that is not splent's opinion, it's a fact and it's not a fact because I think it's a fact, it's a fact because it's logic and it's not logic because it's my logic, it's standard issue logic, a "since" and "therefore" process like they told us in early math.
Hillary Clinton is a piece of shit deceptive politician, exposed too, so I can't vote for her pretending like it's okay since I don't know, so I won't vote for her. The conflict with civil Republicans now is doing the same with Trump, but in my opinion they seem to be having a much harder time making that decision, but that's just my opinion that I'm on the fence about.
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Offline kaos2900

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #183 on: August 01, 2016, 06:36:53 AM »
I'm 99% sure I'm going with Gary Johnson. What's crazy is that Trump is still leading in a lot of polls. Even if Hillary is elected she's going to go down as one of the most unliked presidents.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #184 on: August 01, 2016, 06:50:38 AM »
There's some statistical model that has been predicting presidential winners going back over a hundred years. Apparently they've only been wrong once and they're predicting Trump to win, so we'll see.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #185 on: August 01, 2016, 07:49:48 AM »
Which is why it's more important to get progressives into the senate and the house. If something progressive passes in both branches of congress,
Trump would veto it, but Clinton would sign it.

No.   I think with either Clinton or Trump it would be so toxic that any unbalanced Congress (i.e. all Democrat, or all Republican) would be antagonistic, and so you'd see a lot more extreme measures being sent to the White House in order to make a point.    The LAST thing we need is extreme progressive (or extreme conservative, if we're talking social issues) measures being put up as part of the national dialogue.  Doesn't serve anyone.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #186 on: August 02, 2016, 05:06:48 AM »
Gary Johnson is the only candidate that I *like*. Whether I would support him, IDK.

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #187 on: August 02, 2016, 05:25:00 AM »
Gary Johnson is the only candidate that I *like*. Whether I would support him, IDK.

This irritates me. People don't vote for him because they think he won't win. If more people actually voted for who they liked the most, instead of choosing a frontrunner, the lesser of two evils, it would start a trend. Maybe not with this election, or the next one, but I think it would definitely create a stir. People's voices need to be heard. If these third party candidates get more and more votes, it will make a difference eventually. Think about the future.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2016, 06:25:30 AM »
My thought process isn't quite that clear cut, since I really don't consider myself a pure libertarian.

While I certainly "like" Johnson, what matters most is that he'll do a good job, and he'll prioritize the needs of the country over some ideological agenda. In terms of Foreign Policy, I believe he would be better than Clinton and Trump without being as drastically contrarian as the last "libertarian" candidate, Ron Paul.

Domestically, too, I think he would be much less drastic than Paul, but I'm still not convinced he wouldn't try to push an agenda that wasn't too radical and going to leave a lot of people behind in a quest for ideological purity. The fact that Johnson has actual experience as a governor, and did a decent job at it, eases my concerns a little bit.

In short, while I see him as preferable to Clinton and Trump on Foreign Policy, I'm not sure if I like him Domestically or find him just as unlikeable in his own way. That is the real problem with third party candidates, IMO. They simply aren't pragmatic. They have their idea of how things should be run, and that idea because a "one size fits all" answer for all the nation's ills.

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #189 on: August 02, 2016, 07:24:16 AM »
Your decision shouldn't be clear cut. It should never be an easy decision. The problem is that most of the voting constituency bases their decision on trivialities. I mnow that most of us are fed up with the status quo. However, only an insignificant amount of us actually prove they want to do something about it. I know voting for Hillary won't bring much change, except for the worse. Voting for Trump will bring more change, since we know how he feels about the establishment, but for the most change I know who deserves my vote.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #190 on: August 02, 2016, 07:25:30 AM »
Gary Johnson is the only candidate that I *like*. Whether I would support him, IDK.

This irritates me. People don't vote for him because they think he won't win. If more people actually voted for who they liked the most, instead of choosing a frontrunner, the lesser of two evils, it would start a trend. Maybe not with this election, or the next one, but I think it would definitely create a stir. People's voices need to be heard. If these third party candidates get more and more votes, it will make a difference eventually. Think about the future.

I think the part that kills me is that it's these same people screaming and crying that it's a "rigged system", and they're the ones, from a practical perspective, that is rigging it!   The candidate with the most electoral votes wins, whether it's Dem, Rep, Ind, Green, Blue, or Red party.   Vote your conscience and if all 315 million (well, it's more like 175 million) did that, I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump, Clinton, Preibus, and Wasserman-Scumbag would have no choice but to go back to the woodshed and lick their wounds. 

Offline Skeever

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #191 on: August 02, 2016, 08:34:00 AM »
I know voting for Hillary won't bring much change, except for the worse. Voting for Trump will bring more change, since we know how he feels about the establishment, but for the most change I know who deserves my vote.

This is a dichotomy I just reject totally - the idea that "the establishment" is so horrible, and anything other than it will be better. Alternatively, recklessly shaking things up could mean much worse for a lot of us. It strikes me as odd to see so many people these days who have a lot to be thankful for acting as if they've got nothing to lose.

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #192 on: August 02, 2016, 09:07:40 AM »
Gary Johnson is the only candidate that I *like*. Whether I would support him, IDK.

This irritates me. People don't vote for him because they think he won't win. If more people actually voted for who they liked the most, instead of choosing a frontrunner, the lesser of two evils, it would start a trend. Maybe not with this election, or the next one, but I think it would definitely create a stir. People's voices need to be heard. If these third party candidates get more and more votes, it will make a difference eventually. Think about the future.

I think the part that kills me is that it's these same people screaming and crying that it's a "rigged system", and they're the ones, from a practical perspective, that is rigging it!   The candidate with the most electoral votes wins, whether it's Dem, Rep, Ind, Green, Blue, or Red party.   Vote your conscience and if all 315 million (well, it's more like 175 million) did that, I have a sneaking suspicion that Trump, Clinton, Preibus, and Wasserman-Scumbag would have no choice but to go back to the woodshed and lick their wounds.

I fervently agree. It might not happen immediately, but over time we'll see some meaningful change.

I know voting for Hillary won't bring much change, except for the worse. Voting for Trump will bring more change, since we know how he feels about the establishment, but for the most change I know who deserves my vote.

This is a dichotomy I just reject totally - the idea that "the establishment" is so horrible, and anything other than it will be better. Alternatively, recklessly shaking things up could mean much worse for a lot of us. It strikes me as odd to see so many people these days who have a lot to be thankful for acting as if they've got nothing to lose.

I never said it was so horrible. What I feel is that we need an improvement. The status quo needs to change. Nobody said it has to be drastic. Do you really think if Gary Johnson won the election everything would go back to 1787? Do you think it's that easy to change things? There are checks and balances for a reason. However, it needs to start somewhere, and electing someone with the conscience for bringing about positive change is where it begins.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #193 on: August 02, 2016, 09:19:55 AM »
I never said it was so horrible. What I feel is that we need an improvement. The status quo needs to change. Nobody said it has to be drastic. Do you really think if Gary Johnson won the election everything would go back to 1787? Do you think it's that easy to change things? There are checks and balances for a reason. However, it needs to start somewhere, and electing someone with the conscience for bringing about positive change is where it begins.

It all depends. I don't see Gary Johnson communicating a pragmatic way forward as often as I'd like to. He often does get bogged down in ideology, and I don't think he's effectively advocated for Libertarian values in a way that clearly makes sense to the American people. Thankfully, he is still not as bad as Paul in this regard, who was out of touch, completely driven by ideology, and often sounded like broken record.

And as far as Trump goes, he's been a moving target, but I consider most the things he's on record saying he'd do to "shake things up" to be bad for the country in a very fundamental way. So unless Johnson can win me over, I'm choosing the Status Quo in November.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #194 on: August 02, 2016, 09:35:37 AM »
^^^ But isn't that really the fundamental problem?   The notion of "establishment" versus "change" is rooted indelibly in "what do I believe in".   It's sort of why I don't get hung up on labels like "Left", "Right", "Establishment", "Change", etc. because it's all relative, and subject to a frame of reference.   

I think increasingly, the labels ARE the problem.  There are people here - everywhere, really - that wouldn't vote for Reagan in a million years if he had a "D" next to his name, and wouldn't vote for the new Democrat icon, FDR, if he wore a GOP button.   President Obama is on TV right now, as I type, saying something very similar.  He's talking about Trump, of course, but he just said:  "There comes a time when someone who [does those things] doesn't have the standing to occupy the position of President of the United States."     He's of course cutting on Republicans, which is what he does (it's good for the base), though interestingly, he just said "I disagree with John McCain and Mitt Romney on policy issues, but I have no doubt they could do the job.". 

But even he is guilty.  He's talking about "honoring the rule of law", but then he calls on Republicans that "there comes a time when you have to say 'enough'".   Why wouldn't you do that with Hillary as well?  Why does the "policy", the "belief", always seem to trump (love that word in this context) principle?

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #195 on: August 02, 2016, 11:28:00 AM »
It all depends. I don't see Gary Johnson communicating a pragmatic way forward as often as I'd like to. He often does get bogged down in ideology, and I don't think he's effectively advocated for Libertarian values in a way that clearly makes sense to the American people. Thankfully, he is still not as bad as Paul in this regard, who was out of touch, completely driven by ideology, and often sounded like broken record.

Ron Paul was unelectable. I knew it. He probably knew it as well, but what he also knew was that he started a movement that can be built on and nobody can deny that. Gary Johnson is not my perfect candidate either, but as far as my principles go he's better than Trump and Clinton. That's what it should be about. Out of curiosity, what about Johnson rubs you the wrong way? (That question is less suggestive than it reads.)  :lol



Offline pogoowner

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #196 on: August 02, 2016, 11:47:08 AM »
It all depends. I don't see Gary Johnson communicating a pragmatic way forward as often as I'd like to. He often does get bogged down in ideology, and I don't think he's effectively advocated for Libertarian values in a way that clearly makes sense to the American people. Thankfully, he is still not as bad as Paul in this regard, who was out of touch, completely driven by ideology, and often sounded like broken record.

Ron Paul was unelectable. I knew it. He probably knew it as well, but what he also knew was that he started a movement that can be built on and nobody can deny that. Gary Johnson is not my perfect candidate either, but as far as my principles go he's better than Trump and Clinton. That's what it should be about. Out of curiosity, what about Johnson rubs you the wrong way? (That question is less suggestive than it reads.)  :lol
Johnson seems much more pragmatic than Paul to me. I've heard him talk multiple times about what he thinks is actually realistic to pass in congress. I don't believe he would just go in and shoot for the moon. I'm sure the governor experience has something to do with it.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #197 on: August 02, 2016, 02:55:38 PM »
I like Johnson a lot. 

But I hate Trump more than I like Johnson, and I feel that a vote for Johnson wouldn't do anything to keep Trump out of the White House, while a vote for Clinton WILL.

Johnson is, at this point, essentially unelectable.  Hopefully, he can build his numbers enough to get in on some of the debates.  If not, it's a wasted vote, IMO.
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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #198 on: August 02, 2016, 03:26:46 PM »
His VPN, Bill Weld was my favorite Massachusetts Governor.  He did very well as a Republican at the time in a democratic state.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #199 on: August 02, 2016, 03:27:23 PM »
It's funny you said that hef cause I was just wondering why a lot of people seem to think that a vote for Johnson won't hurt Trump or a vote for Jill Stein won't hurt Clinton, a lot of people say so.
To my understanding libertarians are people who used to be republican, or at least used to vote republican before the libertarian options started coming around. And the Green Party people are leftists who has a similar story with democrats. So a vote for Johnson is a vote that would have went to Trump and a vote for Jill Stein is a vote that would have went to Hillary, no?
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #200 on: August 02, 2016, 03:30:09 PM »
For me you vote your heart.  It's up to the Reps and Dems to put out someone you can vote for.  Voting to block another is too "Survivor" for me.

Sorry Coz. :lol
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #201 on: August 02, 2016, 04:00:51 PM »
It's funny you said that hef cause I was just wondering why a lot of people seem to think that a vote for Johnson won't hurt Trump or a vote for Jill Stein won't hurt Clinton, a lot of people say so.
To my understanding libertarians are people who used to be republican, or at least used to vote republican before the libertarian options started coming around. And the Green Party people are leftists who has a similar story with democrats. So a vote for Johnson is a vote that would have went to Trump and a vote for Jill Stein is a vote that would have went to Hillary, no?

I think Ron Paul muddied the term a little bit, because he was more of a strict conservative constitutionalist and believer in austrian economics, which are not necessarily libertarian ideas. Yet he was most people's first exposure to Libertarianism.

Prior to Paul I would have thought people would have considered Libertarianism something that appealed to members of both parties, but in the post-Paul world, the term has become linked (imo) radical conservatism. Most liked-minded people I know today are very skeptical of the term.

Offline Lucien

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #202 on: August 02, 2016, 04:04:18 PM »
If you weren't going to vote anyways, why would a third-party vote hurt anyone
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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #203 on: August 02, 2016, 04:27:40 PM »
I hate nothing more than people saying that voting for any of the non major parties is a wasted vote. Maybe some people are just sellouts and can only think between two different parties or maybe people aren't principled enough to think beyond what the mainstream media shoves down their throats. Whatever the case is, to me voting for anyone other than the person you believe in most is a waste of a vote.

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #204 on: August 02, 2016, 04:29:47 PM »
I wouldn't say sell out but I vote for what I think is right, not for someone else's agenda.
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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #205 on: August 02, 2016, 04:59:59 PM »
I wouldn't say sell out but I vote for what I think is right, not for someone else's agenda.

I'm not saying everyone is a sellout, but there are people out there who eat this media drama with a spoon and go back for seconds and thirds. The media clearly rules these elections and more people will base everything off the propaganda and give barely any attention to the issues themselves.

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #206 on: August 02, 2016, 05:04:31 PM »
Well I agree that it's media driven but people need to weight the facts from all sides and make your own decision.  Unfortunately,  the majority don't.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #207 on: August 02, 2016, 05:13:48 PM »
Well I agree that it's media driven but people need to weight the facts from all sides and make your own decision.  Unfortunately,  the majority don't.

I couldn't agree with you more. Fuck it, I'm writing your name in the ballot.  :metal

Offline Jaffa

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #208 on: August 02, 2016, 08:03:31 PM »
I hate nothing more than people saying that voting for any of the non major parties is a wasted vote. Maybe some people are just sellouts and can only think between two different parties or maybe people aren't principled enough to think beyond what the mainstream media shoves down their throats. Whatever the case is, to me voting for anyone other than the person you believe in most is a waste of a vote.

Not sure I can agree with you.

In principle, I agree with the idea of voting for who you believe in, regardless of whether or not they have a chance of winning.  Like you said, the more people who reject the two party system is favor of voting their conscience, the better. 

But in practical terms, it's kind of hard to think about the future when there is a very real danger in the present.  When I believe that one particular candidate might legitimately make the entire world a worse place, I don't know how to ignore that fact and focus on making incremental changes for future elections.  I feel it is important to focus on minimizing the damage done in this election.
Sincerely,
Jaffa

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Which of the US presidential candidates do you support?
« Reply #209 on: August 02, 2016, 08:09:27 PM »
Again, let's put the blame where it belongs with both parties for giving us no options.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam