What Are Your Thoughts On "The Gift of Music?"

[SystematicThought]

Awe bosk1 is a great guy.  As long as you are not agressive you'll be fine here.

Are you talking to Nomaniac?

I already knew he was cool. I just read his post as confrontational, because...


...I'm a sensitive soul 

[bl5150]

Mystery Machine?

[Nomaniac]

Don't worry, all in joke ... if you haven't noticed yet I am a strange person with an equally strange sense of humor

No offense meant to our leader Bosk 

[King Postwhore]

Awe bosk1 is a great guy.  As long as you are not agressive you'll be fine here.

Are you talking to Nomaniac?

I already knew he was cool. I just read his post as confrontational, because...


...I'm a sensitive soul 

Yes I am. 

[bosk1]

Awe bosk1 is a great guy.  As long as you are not agressive you'll be fine here.

Be! aggressive!  B.E. aggressive!  B.E.! A.G.G.! R.E.S.S.I.V.E.!

[Nomaniac]

  looks like I caused yet another controversy with my clumsy words . . . apologize for that

[bosk1]

Actually, I had quite forgotten anything about that song other than the chorus.  Now that that post made me revisit it on YouTube and I am recalling the lyrics a bit more...vividly...just ignore that last post. 

[Nomaniac]

Yeah all of y'all are really cool . . . it's nice to have a social media site where everyone's got their s**t together if you know what I mean

[Kotowboy]

Yeah all of y'all are really cool . . . it's nice to have a social media site where everyone's got their s**t together if you know what I mean

i am by far the coolest-er !

[King Postwhore]

Awe bosk1 is a great guy.  As long as you are not agressive you'll be fine here.

Be! aggressive!  B.E. aggressive!  B.E.! A.G.G.! R.E.S.S.I.V.E.!

 

Perfect.

[Prog Snob]

I'm not sure if people are kidding or they really didn't get the joke. 

I hope it's obvious that I was kidding.

Well I know YOU were, but I'm not sure about the others.

Do you really think I was serious? Not sure if serious yourself.

B.Lee

One can never tell.

[noxon]

[hefdaddy42]

[Bertielee]

I'm not sure if people are kidding or they really didn't get the joke. 

I hope it's obvious that I was kidding.

Well I know YOU were, but I'm not sure about the others.

Do you really think I was serious? Not sure if serious yourself.

B.Lee

One can never tell.

 

Back to topic : I like everything on TGoM except the drums. The mechanical side of MM is beginning to bugger me.

B.Lee

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

What exactly do you mean by mechanical?

[Kotowboy]

Back to topic : I like everything on TGoM except the drums. The mechanical side of MM is beginning to bugger me.

B.Lee

Must be a pain in the ass !

[Bertielee]

What exactly do you mean by mechanical?

Well, you know, I don't know exactly how to say it, but I guess it's his over the top precision that is beginning to annoy me, it's not organic. Plus, on a different level, his overuse of the snare also annoys me.

B.Lee

[Nomaniac]

You know, before I joined this site, I heard people complain about a drummer being too sloppy, but never about being too precise

All kidding aside though, I understand where you're coming from B.Lee Mangini's style can often be an "acquired taste" for some - when I first heard him completely unchained on DT12 it took me a while to fully appreciate it . . .

[Kotowboy]

Fyfe Ewing the original drummer for Therapy? was known for being metronomic and smack on the beat but his drumming never lacked groove or dynamics.

Mangini's problem is that he's trained himself to sound like a drum machine.

[Nomaniac]

That's where I'm blessed to not be a musician . . . I don't really take notice of stuff like that. Really I wish I had the attention span to learn an instrument (or at least stop wasting money on instruments I'll never play ) but since I'm not exposed to that world and don't have a "musical ear" it's kind of hard to tell a drum machine from regular drums without focusing, and to me Mangini is not that different from other drummers other than his preciseness. I understand where you guys are coming from though, and you guys would definitely know better than me (which makes me wonder why I'm even still rambling on, right? ) 

[Bertielee]

Well, you know, Nomaniac, I was really extatic when I learned that MM was to be DT drummer. 3 albums in, I'm feeling like Kotow : his playing is too mechanical and robotic. Granted, the precision is super human but I'm really beginning to find his playing lifeless. And I definitely think that it drags TGoM down, and it's a shame as it would be a great track otherwise.

B.Lee

[OleMP]

To me it seems that when people start complaining about Mangini being too precise, they're complaining just to complain. And to be perfectly honest, I think its just total bs. But each to his own, of course. What Mangini brings to the table that I really like is these small intricate details in the orchestration. Details you very easily miss at first, but that you discover when you have heard the songs several times. That's always something I have enjoyed in music, discovering new details for each time I listen to a piece of music. And then actually seeing how he does it never ceases to amaze me.

[Kotowboy]

I'm not complaining. I have no problem with his drumming on A Dramatic Turn of Events and on DT12 it was mainly Rich Chycki and Petrucci who made his kit sound like that.

The Gift Of Music is a good happy medium.

[BelichickFan]

The irony that some here consider Mangini, himself, to be a NOMAC.

[Nomaniac]

The irony that some here consider Mangini, himself, to be a NOMAC.

Maybe it's not such a crazy theory after all, now that we're on the topic

To me it seems that when people start complaining about Mangini being too precise, they're complaining just to complain. And to be perfectly honest, I think its just total bs. But each to his own, of course. What Mangini brings to the table that I really like is these small intricate details in the orchestration. Details you very easily miss at first, but that you discover when you have heard the songs several times. That's always something I have enjoyed in music, discovering new details for each time I listen to a piece of music. And then actually seeing how he does it never ceases to amaze me.

I really enjoy his playing as well. And like I said I don't have much knowledge when it comes to musicianship and production so I will cease to comment on the matter and let those of you more educated on it continue to discuss . . . but to be honest I think they are bringing up a fair point and I don't think they're "complaining just to complain." We know Mangini has a unique style and I think it's fair to say that it's not your particular taste. It seems like a valid to argument to me . . . no offense meant though

[DreamTension]

IMO,

I think JP has a vision in his mind of what the drums should sound like.  On ADTOE, they were mixed pretty low and didn't really have much personality. I think that's fine considering where the band was at that point.

For DT12, I definitely see a specific "Sound" that JP wanted for those songs. Not only the drums, but everything. I personally feel the snare detracts from some of the songs, but that's a matter of taste.  Overall for DT12, I feel like it has a "Sonic Identity" that ADTOE lacked. Whether you like it or not is subjective, but I can see how it fits the overall theme of the album. 

For TGOM, I can really hear a new sound from DT. I think the "mechanical" drumming is going to fit this album perfectly and I totally love the overall sonic vibe on the song!  I think JP really had a vision for this album and so far it sounds like he really pulled it off much better than DT12. 

I think the drumming sounds robotic to some people not only because of Mangini's playing style, but also because if the sound of his drums.  I think JP has more say in the drum sound than MM.

I'm really excited for The Astonishing!

[noxon]

There's a reason why a drum machine sounds bad when you try to program your drums instead of having a real drummer play them..

It's inhuman to hit all notes at the same velocity. It's inhuman to hit them exactly on time. The best drummers add some swing to their tempo, so that they're a bit off  at times, which will create anticipation. The dynamic variation helps with listening fatigue - if you hear the exact same sound for a length of time the brain tries to "drown it out". It becomes noise and you get tired from listening.

Mangini is at times too much like a drum machine on the studio albums. That's what we're referring to when we say he's mechanical. He's an excellent drummer, and has technique few of us could dream of. But to me there's something a bit lifeless about the way the drums sound.. It's like having the greatest virtuoso just read the sheet music and add no personality to his performance.

[CoT67]

IMHO Mangini does great things with his kick drum patterns and certain odd grooves, but apart from that his parts seem to generally be "simple" and set compared to the more natural, shifting patterns of the Portnoy before SC.

After all, this being set and "simple" is a trend I also noticed in the way the "new" Petrucci style sounds (after Octavarium), in which is solos and riffs tend to be just a tiny bit more predictable than the ones he wrote in the past, especially if you look at them in detail and from a technical standpoint... but there's also quite a bit of difference in the musical one (much less jazzy/fusion influence after SFAM and the LTE albums).

Last thing though, I don't understand the so called overuse of the snare drum by Mangini. Portnoy was using it all the time in the past, the difference was that he was slightly more unpredictable in his snare drum hit placing during a riff, while Mangini is pretty much set on a few rigid patterns to execute. I guess it still counts as "mechanical" playing after all.

[BlobVanDam]

To me it seems that when people start complaining about Mangini being too precise, they're complaining just to complain. And to be perfectly honest, I think its just total bs.

To me it seems that when people don't understand an opposing opinion, they feel the need to try and dismiss it entirely.
It's not BS at all.

[rumborak]

For TGOM, I can really hear a new sound from DT. I think the "mechanical" drumming is going to fit this album perfectly and I totally love the overall sonic vibe on the song!  I think JP really had a vision for this album and so far it sounds like he really pulled it off much better than DT12. 

My personal opinion here, but I totally disagree. At least for the rebel side of songs, which TGOM clearly is, the instrumentation should be organic, raw, from the heart. That supposedly is what the struggle is about. TGOM's drumming was, I'm sorry, completely mechanic.

[erwinrafael]

IMHO Mangini does great things with his kick drum patterns and certain odd grooves, but apart from that his parts seem to generally be "simple" and set compared to the more natural, shifting patterns of the Portnoy before SC.

The funny thing about MM's drum patterns is that some of them sound simple, but when you play them, you realize that he has been using a lot of limb combos that it's hard to play.

With MP, on the other hand, a lot of fills sound complicated, but when you play them, they are actually quite simple.

They really just have different musicalities. MM loves bass drum patterns. MP loves hi-hats. MM loves orchestrating in sync with the other instruments. MP loves creating patterns distinct from the other instruments and inserting fills. They are just different.

[Nomaniac]

There's a reason why a drum machine sounds bad when you try to program your drums instead of having a real drummer play them..

It's inhuman to hit all notes at the same velocity. It's inhuman to hit them exactly on time. The best drummers add some swing to their tempo, so that they're a bit off  at times, which will create anticipation. The dynamic variation helps with listening fatigue - if you hear the exact same sound for a length of time the brain tries to "drown it out". It becomes noise and you get tired from listening.

Mangini is at times too much like a drum machine on the studio albums. That's what we're referring to when we say he's mechanical. He's an excellent drummer, and has technique few of us could dream of. But to me there's something a bit lifeless about the way the drums sound.. It's like having the greatest virtuoso just read the sheet music and add no personality to his performance.

Okay I see . . . thanks for clarifying for those of us who aren't musically versed Noxon

I understand now - and it's a fair point!

He does have a mechanical way of going about playing, and apparently it gets to some more than others (like for example since I'm not a musician I don't notice it as much).

But it's still true - and it's an entirely valid to point that out.

[Nomaniac]

And to the other perspective, it really is subjective. MM isn't MP like erwinrafael said . . . things are going to be different. Some enjoy it more, some don't . . . and it is completely fair to voice your opinions. Nothing wrong with that

And how much do the drum sound has to do with Mangini's style and how much it has to do with the production is another point brought up. I won't get into that since I don't know what the hell I'm talking about but both are a factor here . . . I wonder how Mangini's style would sound with a more classical DT production?

Anyways, you guys can go back to debating

[erwinrafael]

And how much do the drum sound has to do with Mangini's style and how much it has to do with the production is another point brought up. I won't get into that since I don't know what the hell I'm talking about but both are a factor here . . . I wonder how Mangini's style would sound with a more classical DT production?

For  me, his style stuck to the same elements as before, but he does sound more mechanical in the DT records and I think it is more of a production issue. Listen to this sample of his work before DT. You will hear the same style, but it sounds more dynamic:

https://youtu.be/tRP_MgMCIao?list=PL05F4EEA0696BF420

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Yea I too think it's more a production issue than his playing. If his drums would have sounded more streamlined and slick like this for example:

https://youtu.be/iocdFlUgzl0?t=22m35s

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TThjCNsMT4

I don't think people would complain that he sounds mechanical. As a drummer myself I can agree that the production sounds processed very much like MPs kit on I&Ws but in terms of his playing I don't think it's sounds more mechanical than anything DT done in the past. End of the day though it's all about taste.