A win for boxing tonight: Holm v. Rousey

[Calvin6s]

Holm displayed beautiful boxing skills that turned Rousey into a brawler with wide looping punches.

Too bad pro boxers fight like they don't want to be there.  Maybe Holm can inspire them.

[Ben_Jamin]

I'm glad Holms won, she deserved it. Now Albuquerque is on fire tonight.

[jjrock88]

Wow huge upset. I'm not sure many saw that coming

[Calvin6s]

I don't follow MMA that closely, but obviously you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about Rousey.

I'm seeing a bunch of "exposed" and "arrogant / poor sport" with Ronda.  Wouldn't know how to address that because I don't follow closely enough, so is this just a hipster thing?  She's popular, now she's down. Love her, never liked her.

The way she was beat was pretty dominating and hardly a lucky shot.  It did make Ronda look amateurish and out of breath very quickly, but a good pop can do that to the best of 'em.  I recall being a huge Wladimir Klitschko fan on his way up when Corey Sanders caught him early and sharp enough to make it just a matter of time.  And Wladimir went on to dominate heavyweight boxing for over a decade.

Maybe Rousey is on the same trip.  Wladimir was overly offensive until he got popped, then became a complete boxer.  Maybe the same for Rousey.  I will say that I think Wladimir's real problem was all mental (causing an involuntary rush of adrenaline but being too confused and temporarily stunned to use it ... leaving him drained a mere minute later).  This didn't seem to be the case with Ronda.  It reminded me of a shot old Tyson where all the skill was gone and it was just about brawling and intimidation with no Plan B.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't follow MMA very closely, but from what I understand, Rousey is a grappler, while Holm is a striker.  In matchups like this, the grappler normally wins, all other things being equal (which of course they rarely are).

This time the striker won.  I didn't expect it, but congrats to her.

But it's not a win for boxing.  Not sure what that even means.

[Calvin6s]

But it's not a win for boxing.  Not sure what that even means.

Did you watch the match?  Do you know the history of Holm?  If not, then don't make declarative statements.

[King Postwhore]

He talking about the decline of boxing and the rise of MMA Calvin6s and Hef is correct.

[KevShmev]

I don't pay much attention to MMA, but Rousey has been everywhere since early this year, and since I always like seeing overly cocky people brought down a peg or two, I was glad to see that she not only lost, but got her ass kicked.  Seems like a classic case of someone who believed their own hype and lost their edge.

[Calvin6s]

Was Rousey over the top with her semantics?  I know she had the swagger, but how much of that is just confidence (a necessary component in a game of mental toughness) and how much is marketing?  Was she over the top and needed a beatdown or was she just so popular and people like to build them up and break them down?

Watching the actual match, Holm was beautiful with her timing.  And it wasn't like Floyd where his timing is all about surviving.  Holm was countering *offensively*.  And even if Rousey was highly overrated (assumption), that doesn't take away the beautiful breakdown that Holm set up.

And Holm is a past her prime boxer that some say left boxing to avoid facing her successor.  One that Rousey has called out.  When I heard about the results, I was expecting to see Holm get a lucky shot off, but it was nothing like that.  She showed a high degree of skill that took Rousey into an uncomfortable position.  It was obvious she broke Rousey mentally and quickly.  She quickly put Rousey into desperation mode.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yup, Us New Mexico fans wanted it, we got it, and The victory was awesome. If only i was in town then, i bet the bars were loud and maybe giving free stuff.

[hefdaddy42]

But it's not a win for boxing.  Not sure what that even means.

Did you watch the match?  Do you know the history of Holm?  If not, then don't make declarative statements.

Is boxing going to suddenly become more popular in the public mind than MMA?  No.

So where is the win?  Just because a former boxer had the match of her life?

And I've never found Rousey to be overly cocky.  For sure confident and arrogant, but that's part of the game.

[Stadler]

And if you read about her, it's her mechanism, not some "hey look at me, I'm cool!" nonsense.  Her dedication and passion for her craft is hard to criticize.  For me, I think this is more about "any given Sunday" and an opponent that did her homework and took advantage of her opportunity. 

[hefdaddy42]

And if you read about her, it's her mechanism, not some "hey look at me, I'm cool!" nonsense.  Her dedication and passion for her craft is hard to criticize.  For me, I think this is more about "any given Sunday" and an opponent that did her homework and took advantage of her opportunity.

I agree.

All credit to Holm, she went in and won fair & square.

[Calvin6s]

So where is the win?  Just because a former boxer had the match of her life?

Using boxing skills to achieve her advantage.

If you don't think people aren't talking about the boxing element of this, then you aren't paying attention.

Everybody knows the problem with boxing isn't the boxing.  It's the judging, match making and .... overabundance of money (popularity) that keeps those at the top of the game from taking risks.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't pay much attention to MMA, but Rousey has been everywhere since early this year, and since I always like seeing overly cocky people brought down a peg or two, I was glad to see that she not only lost, but got her ass kicked.  Seems like a classic case of someone who believed their own hype and lost their edge.

This. Both my brothers are real into MMA and constantly talked about Rousey. So, when I looked in to her and started seeing/reading about her....what she'd say and so on it was apparent that she's pretty cocky and maybe rightfully so given it looked as if no one could touch her.

I think the fame and hype caught up to her and maybe diluted her focus a bit and certainly Holm looked hungry and was the clear dominant fighter in that match. In between rounds when they showed Rousey she looked scared and almost as if she knew there was no way she could beat Holm.

I do think that Rousey will win the re-match handily and I base that only off the fact that there's a good chance now that she's been beaten and knocked off her high horse a bit she'll actually focus on the fight next time and not the late night shows and movie offers.

Happy for Holm though....she seems very humble about winning and grateful to have had the chance to fight Rousey.

[Big Hath]

interesting contrast in styles for this fight.  Rousey is the top BJJ female out there it seems, but she needs to be close to her opponent for take downs etc.  Holm used her boxing skill to keep her at a distance.  Now if Rousey works on her wrestling moves for a rematch, we'll have something different to talk about as she can use those to attempt take downs from a distance.

[Calvin6s]

I wouldn't hold her talk or gameface against her.  Contact sports are a lot about getting in somebody's head.  MMA and boxing especially.

Heck, I went from an average (maybe even below average) Water Polo player when I played on the Varsity team as a freshman for a game.  The dude that usually ended up in my zone talked to me the entire time.  I'm gonna fuckin' drown you.  God damn I love when I drive my elbow into your scared as shit face.

And the dude wasn't just talking, he was beating the shit out of me.  And it is the same way a boxer gets away with an elbow or some other illegal move that isn't even noticed, and if it is, looks like it was just part of awkward movement and nothing intentional.  So this guy wasn't getting called on anything.  It was an extremely long game for me.  And I'm sure I was completely worthless that night because my head was anywhere but the game.

But then I replayed it in my head on the bus ride home and took mental notes.  And I became a "clean" dirty player that used intimidation.  And almost overnight I went from nothing special to a starter that played almost the entire game (sometimes I did).  I remember the Varsity coach (I went back to JV as the Freshman) watching one of my games a few weeks later and saying "When did you get so much better?  Keep it up and you are guaranteed Varsity next year."  And the majority of that was head games.

So if Rousey is out there saying she's the best ever and could even beat men (or Floyd Mayweather with ease), I'm not sure that's really a bad attitude.  What matters is after the first loss, and I hear she's taken it well.  But what really matters is when they retire and they are still putting down their opponents.  Lennox Lewis is great (bad) at this when he comments on a HW fight.  All you hear from him is how much better he is and how he would have beat the loser faster and then finish up the winner on the same night.  Nobody wants to hear that from a commentator.  It doesn't matter how good they were when active.  Pass the torch.

[Stadler]

^^^ This is an ABSOLUTELY integral part of almost any sport.  I don't necessarily mean Sunday rec league softball, but certainly when I was playing competitive hockey and soccer, there were certain players that would fold like a house of cards after one hit, and a few choice words.    I can remember one hockey game where I went in the corner with a kid and hit him good, then laughed a little and said "Oh, man, you are so lucky I missed you; next time I am going to hit you square", and for the next period or so he pulled up every single time we went in the corner.  His coach finally started skipping his shift; they got tired and we won.  I've got many stories like this (not all involving me personally). 

[Bruinsfan25]

Obviously taking trash before a fight isn't uncommon. It has it's place in both building yourself up and trying to get in your opponent's head. I've always thought it was funny when people criticize a fighter for saying they're going to win like they shouldn't be thinking that way. As it pertains to Rhonda Rousey, she's always rubbed me the wrong way for her poor sportsmanship. Chael Sonnen talked heaps of crap before his fights with Anderson Silva, but when it was over they shook hands and it was done with. That happens a lot of the time. Rhonda seems to take it all really personal and won't shake hands after a fight kind of like the Diaz brothers. That attitude is what makes me happy to see her get taken down a peg. Doesn't change the fact that she's an incredible fighter at all.

[Calvin6s]

I don't judge so much about if the winner shakes the hand, but if the loser does.  She was pretty beat up, so she was more in a daze after the fight.  But I've heard she has talked as if she fully accepts the loss (which is good considering there was zero controversy on the outcome).

Now if there is a rematch, I wouldn't be surprised if she does the "You only beat me because ..." talk.  That's more marketing as I think it no longer intimidates the opponent.  It might even do the reverse.  It is far more effective to see a beaten foe accept they lost, admit they lost because of their own shortcomings, but they have learned from it and that opening has been closed.

I don't follow Rousey closely enough to know if her head games go beyond the game itself.

[Bruinsfan25]

After her second fight with Meisha Tate, she went to shake Rhonda's hand and bury the hatchet and Rhonda wanted nothing to do with it. That always rubbed me the wrong way. She just looked like a poor sport and a bad winner. Brock Lesnar had that same attitude with Frank Mir. Some of these fighters don't realize that some of the trash talk is to sell a fight. That's how Connor McGregor has pretty much made his name. Worked for Chael Sonnen in the same way.

[Calvin6s]

Interesting.  Don't know the history, but my Meisha Tate search returnedthis from Meisha

"I'm f**king stoked," Tate said at the viewing party. "Honestly, f**k Ronda Rousey. F**k her and her nobody has the right to beat her -- well, you just got beat, b**ch."

[Calvin6s]

There's trash talking like Floyd Mayweather where it comes off annoying, whiney, etc.

But sometimes trash talking can be quite entertaining.  For boxing, Ricardo Mayorga was great at it.  You could tell he was half serious, half tongue in cheek.

He might not have been ATG material, but his rants and antics were entertaining.  Oh, and I guess he beat an MMA fighter with MMA tactics as well.

[KevShmev]

I don't watch UFC, but I saw on that chatter about last night's fight, so I had to check it out.

Wow, Rousey got pummeled.  She never stood a chance.

[jjrock88]

I saw it and yeah it was lopsided for sure.  I think its a safe bet that Rousey moves on from UFC into movies/tv and is done fighting for good.

[King Postwhore]

It reminds me of watching Mike Tyson.   Once he lost, it was all mental which I think Rousey is going through and may never come back.

[jjrock88]

I remember that Buster Douglas match.  I don't think anyone expected Tyson to lose that one and he never fully recovered.

[King Postwhore]

That's how I feel about Rousey.  No Tyson left his longtime trainer Cushion D'Amato. Huge mistake leaving him.

[ReaperKK]

Wow huge upset. I'm not sure many saw that coming

I thought there was a strong chance that Ronda was going to lose. She kept Edmond on as a coach and it's becoming more and more clear that he doesn't know how to effectively coach her.

[El Barto]

That's how I feel about Rousey.  No Tyson left his longtime trainer Cushion D'Amato. Huge mistake leaving him.

Cus D'amato died early in Tyson's professional career. Tyson never would have left him. Damn shame, too. We all lose for not getting to see how he'd have fared had he not gone off the rails.

As for it being all mental, that's certainly a big part of it. You'll never see a better example of intimidation than the Spinks fight. Tyson won that before he even reached the ring.
Mike Tyson Ring Entrance - Mike Spinks You can almost see the will disappear from Spinks as soon as the music changes, and their body language during the introductions tells the whole story.

Tyson was very well skilled, though, and a pretty smart, calculating fighter. While he had never been beaten, he'd certainly had opponents take him the distance and occasionally beat the living hell out of him. I don't think he thought of himself as invincible.

[King Postwhore]

I agree but once he was beaten, there was something upstairs that was lost.  He wasn't the same boxer.

[ReaperKK]

For anyone interested that's Ronda's corner audio from the fight.

https://dirtyboxing.tumblr.com/post/155196889101/enjoy-the-fight-with-the-audio-of-ronda-rouseys

[gmillerdrake]

I agree but once he was beaten, there was something upstairs that was lost.  He wasn't the same boxer.

Lets not forget one thing about Tyson's loss to Buster Douglas. Tyson knocked him out, period. The count on Douglas started a full second late...so when the ref reached 9 it was actually 10 and Douglas stood up still dazed on "9".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNQ18XiEeKs

This doesn't change the fact that once Tyson dumped Rooney as his trainer and surrounded himself with 'yes' men his 'aura' as a fighter was compromised and ultimately finished ....or not to take away that despite that he actually was knocked out by Tyson, Douglas took advantage of the break in the round...regrouped and beat a 70% of what Tyson used to be fighter.

I wish beyond wishes that Holyfield wasn't such a pu$$y that he never fought Tyson in his heyday because IMO there is NOT ONE FIGHTER out there that even in their Heyday could beat Tyson in his. Not one. He was a beast of beasts....hit harder than anyone has ever hit and had a ferocity that no other fighter has had since.

[El Barto]

He probably would have made the count even if it had started on time. My problem is that the ref was too quick to pronounce Douglas good to go. Even with the extra 2 seconds the dude did not have his marbles when he answered the count and a lot of refs might have waived him off for it. In the end I think it was fair, though.

YOur point about Hollyfield is dead on, but that's also one of the knocks against Tyson. There just wasn't anybody in his era that could compete with him. Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, Spinks, etc all had to fight each other. Tyson was beating up Trevor Burbecks. Not Tyson's fault, and I think he would have been a great fighter back in the day against all of those guys. It's just a damn shame we never got to see him really test the greatness he possessed.

[King Postwhore]

We all know the boxing politics.   Did I tell you guys I was at the first Ward vs. Gatti fight?  Best fight I saw live ever!