Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[ozzy554]

Just found a gift card that I forgot I had.  So now I have this pre ordered   

[pcs90]

Can not hear Myung. Mangini does same fills over and over.

So they really are just copying and pasting their old negative comments without even bothering to listen to the actual music.

Yeah, can't take that review seriously at all.

[mike099]

Pardon if this question has been answered.  Does DT actually play instruments on the Nomac tracks?

By the way, have not heard any of the two tracks released and am waiting on the full cd with headphones.

[Enigmachine]

Speaking of which, what were the 9 songs included in the promo of the album (if that can be answered)?

With all that has been revealed by this point, I don't see why not.  I mean, we have reviews that discuss the tracks.  So I will include a bit of detail.
1.  Descent of the NOMACS -- NOMAC noise as an intro to the album.  It makes sense.  Not a big, bombastic opening.  Just sound effects to set the stage.
2.  Dystopian Overture -- This is the true "opening" of the album.  What can I say?  It is an overture.  DT have written some nice overtures, and this may just be their best.  Lots of interesting new sounds I am not used to hearing from DT.  The choir really adds a lot to the atmosphere.
3.  The Gift of Music -- You all have heard it.
4.  Lord Nafaryus -- Oh, just...YES!  Nice military march-y type theme going throughout.  Very appropriate to the subject matter.  There is a palpable Queen influence here, especially in the vocal department.  It is big.  It is grand sounding.  It is just a lot of fun.
5.  A Savior in the Square - When Your Time Has Come -- LOTS of really cool parts in this one.  This is one of those songs that has cool themes show up, and then moves on to something else.  It does that frequently, but seamlessly.  Really nice track from start to finish.  And, for this album, a long track.  The opening, to me, has a Count of Tuscany vibe.
6.  Chosen -- Soaring ballad with great vocals and piano work.  For the most part, I prefer DT's heavier songs to their "ballady" type songs.  But they have written some incredibly strong ones in the Mangini era, and this is another one.
7.  Moment of Betrayal -- You all have heard this one, too.  I really like it.  Piano, dat riff!, ...soaring vocals from James.  Yeah, it just works.
8.  The Path That Divides -- Major plot point seems to happen here.  I can tell that even without having the whole story.  The music is dark and moody.  Nice track.
9.  Our New World -- Major ear worm.  Many will have the chorus stuck in their heads the week after release, I guarantee it.

Oh cool, so it's almost like a brief summary of the entire album. How well do ASitS and WYTHC flow as one unit as they are presented on the promo? Is it really obvious that it's two songs when you listen to them as one track? Sorry about all the questions.

[pcs90]

2.  Dystopian Overture -- This is the true "opening" of the album.  What can I say?  It is an overture.  DT have written some nice overtures, and this may just be their best.  Lots of interesting new sounds I am not used to hearing from DT.  The choir really adds a lot to the atmosphere.

This makes me very happy especially since I take it you don't generally enjoy the instrumental songs as much.

[Bacong]

the guy gives the album a 9.5 and you're picking apart his criticisms

[bosk1]

How well do ASitS and WYTHC flow as one unit as they are presented on the promo? Is it really obvious that it's two songs when you listen to them as one track? Sorry about all the questions.

I think they flow together really well.  I mean, the transition is obvious, but it is smooth and well thought out. 

2.  Dystopian Overture -- This is the true "opening" of the album.  What can I say?  It is an overture.  DT have written some nice overtures, and this may just be their best.  Lots of interesting new sounds I am not used to hearing from DT.  The choir really adds a lot to the atmosphere.

This makes me very happy especially since I take it you don't generally enjoy the instrumental songs as much.

Yeah, not as much as "full songs."  But that is a generalization.  I still like a lot of the instrumentals.  And, like I said, this is a really good overture. 

[TH1RT3EN]

I just hope there is at least a bass solo where JM plays a bass solo

[RuRoRul]

the guy gives the album a 9.5 and you're picking apart his criticisms

It was a 3/5 review (that read quite negatively for that score) that people were talking about mainly,

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Moment of Betrayal is up on DT's official YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yhFSTAyHWs

[RMGadelha]

We know

[Sir Walrus Cauliflower]

Oh damn I haven't read like the last page   

[ResultsMayVary]

I'm kind of surprised that people were surprised to see a quality jump between the official track release for MoB and the Eddie Trunk radio rip version.

[Progmetty]

Lotsa god dang spoilers going around here fellas, for the non-spoilers thread; this is pretty spoily, just sayin.

[bosk1]

This isn't a non-spoilers thread.

[TH1RT3EN]

I'm kind of surprised that people were surprised to see a quality jump between the official track release for MoB and the Eddie Trunk radio rip version.

Beats me too. Seems like people just don't have the time for music to reason properly about that anymore.

[rumborak]

If one doesn't want to hear or read stuff about the album, I would suggest staying away entirely until the release. There's no way you can cleanly separate posts like that.

[Progmetty]

I thought the listening parties thread was labeled spoilers cause this one is spoiler free bosk, I thought we're only discussing released material in here.
Looks like I thought wrong and gotta keep away for a while heh

[erwinrafael]

I'm kind of surprised that people were surprised to see a quality jump between the official track release for MoB and the Eddie Trunk radio rip version.

Beats me too. Seems like people just don't have the time for music to reason properly about that anymore.

For me, at least, the cymbals sounded clearer in the official release.

[Darkstarshades]

I really wanted JR lyrics, or MM

[bosk1]

I thought the listening parties thread was labeled spoilers cause this one is spoiler free bosk, I thought we're only discussing released material in here.
Looks like I thought wrong and gotta keep away for a while heh

No.  I mean, the thread is about the new album.  So I didn't feel like it needed to have "SPOILERS," unless it was followed by "...well, duh!" 

[lovethedrake]

Listened to Moment of Betrayal on the more quality version... I don't get it.    It sounds better which is nice and I think the opening riff is actually pretty sweet.   I think its one of the worst DT instrumentals in their catalogue outside of the kick ass Petrucci solo.   I still think the chorus is lifeless and just plain bad.    Just not a good song.

As for MM.... I think he is fine on TGOM but I completely agree with the latest review of how he sounds on MOB.   There is not a single interesting drum part and his drumming is actually quite annoying.

I think DT12 was a great return to form for the band and I had no issues with MM's drumming.  Its really bad on MOB though....

[erwinrafael]

Listened to Moment of Betrayal on the more quality version... I don't get it.    It sounds better which is nice and I think the opening riff is actually pretty sweet.   I think its one of the worst DT instrumentals in their catalogue outside of the kick ass Petrucci solo.   I still think the chorus is lifeless and just plain bad.    Just not a good song.

As for MM.... I think he is fine on TGOM but I completely agree with the latest review of how he sounds on MOB.   There is not a single interesting drum part and his drumming is actually quite annoying.

I think DT12 was a great return to form for the band and I had no issues with MM's drumming.  Its really bad on MOB though....

At this point, I think anybody who doesn't really like MM's style and do not find his drumming interesting really would never be converted. He has kept to the same philosophy in drum composition for many years: not drum fill-heavy, very prominent use of bass drums, a lot of focus on complementing what the other instruments are playing, melodic runs up and down the kit, and a lot of use of drum speed.

[BlobVanDam]

Listened to Moment of Betrayal on the more quality version... I don't get it.    It sounds better which is nice and I think the opening riff is actually pretty sweet.   I think its one of the worst DT instrumentals in their catalogue outside of the kick ass Petrucci solo.   I still think the chorus is lifeless and just plain bad.    Just not a good song.

As for MM.... I think he is fine on TGOM but I completely agree with the latest review of how he sounds on MOB.   There is not a single interesting drum part and his drumming is actually quite annoying.

I think DT12 was a great return to form for the band and I had no issues with MM's drumming.  Its really bad on MOB though....

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.
Aside from that, I find his work on TA to be a lot more memorable and even air drum-worthy.

[erwinrafael]

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.

So you're referring specifically to when he do his machine-gun drums thing?

[BlobVanDam]

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.

So you're referring specifically to when he do his machine-gun drums thing?

Yeah, it's all the snare. It would need more dynamics and/or additional drums to work for me. It doesn't hold the section together enough given the rhythm of what the rest of the band is doing.
Just imo obviously. No problem at all with MM on TA so far other than that. I'm feeling a lot more of the classic DT vibe from his playing.

[hipodilski]

As for MM.... I think he is fine on TGOM but I completely agree with the latest review of how he sounds on MOB.   There is not a single interesting drum part and his drumming is actually quite annoying.

Oh yeah? Because frantic overplaying of quads on toms/splashes/stacks/everything in sight is so much more original. </sarcasm>

[majo]

Moment of Betrayal is up on DT's official YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yhFSTAyHWs

aaaand its gone

[erwinrafael]

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.

So you're referring specifically to when he do his machine-gun drums thing?

Yeah, it's all the snare. It would need more dynamics and/or additional drums to work for me. It doesn't hold the section together enough given the rhythm of what the rest of the band is doing.
Just imo obviously. No problem at all with MM on TA so far other than that. I'm feeling a lot more of the classic DT vibe from his playing.

Yeah. Among his repertoire, that's one that does get tiring if overdone. I like it when he does it in spurts. Surprisingly, I like it in The Enemy Inside. Maybe because in that song he is doing it with one hand and mixing up other interesting tidbits with his other hand. 

[ariich]

I mean, to make an analogy with the film world, the guy is criticizing the pacing of the album. They are trying to tell a story, and when you do that, the pacing becomes very important. Once again, I can't at all say whether the criticism is valid, but in general, criticizing an album based on whether or not it paces well, or had too much filler, is a complete fine aspect to criticize.

Pacing would certainly be a fair thing to talk about, but that's not what I got from it. Maybe it's the language used; as others have commented, the word "filler" gets misused a lot. Filler implies the track could just be scrapped, but by most accounts the plot wouldn't make sense and the emotional story wouldn't either. Like I said, it's different to a traditional album. I've never seen an opera or musical where every bit of music is killer standalone, that's just not the point.

[noxon]

He's gotta show off his world record winning move, after all...

[bl5150]

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.

So you're referring specifically to when he do his machine-gun drums thing?

Yeah, it's all the snare. It would need more dynamics and/or additional drums to work for me. It doesn't hold the section together enough given the rhythm of what the rest of the band is doing.
Just imo obviously. No problem at all with MM on TA so far other than that. I'm feeling a lot more of the classic DT vibe from his playing.

Yeah. Among his repertoire, that's one that does get tiring if overdone. I like it when he does it in spurts. Surprisingly, I like it in The Enemy Inside. Maybe because in that song he is doing it with one hand and mixing up other interesting tidbits with his other hand. 

I love the drumming on TEI but I agree that on MOB that there's some stuff going on that doesn't really fit.  Not enough to really annoy me but noticeable.

Other than that I am liking it - unfortunately the better sound quality doesn't alter the awful rhythm guitar tone (lead is beautiful as usual). Funnily enough I find JP's album rhythm tone is way too thick/muddy (this and Dt12) and live ......way too tinny

[BlobVanDam]

I enjoy MM's work more on this album so far probably because there's less room for him to overdo it. The major reason I don't like MOB that much though is I find the pre-chorus annoying, which is in large part due to the drums.

So you're referring specifically to when he do his machine-gun drums thing?

Yeah, it's all the snare. It would need more dynamics and/or additional drums to work for me. It doesn't hold the section together enough given the rhythm of what the rest of the band is doing.
Just imo obviously. No problem at all with MM on TA so far other than that. I'm feeling a lot more of the classic DT vibe from his playing.

Yeah. Among his repertoire, that's one that does get tiring if overdone. I like it when he does it in spurts. Surprisingly, I like it in The Enemy Inside. Maybe because in that song he is doing it with one hand and mixing up other interesting tidbits with his other hand. 

I have no problem with it in TEI either. This is the only time I recall any problem with that specific sound.
As I said though, overall I'm really enjoying MM's work on TA a lot more than any previous albums.

As for MM.... I think he is fine on TGOM but I completely agree with the latest review of how he sounds on MOB.   There is not a single interesting drum part and his drumming is actually quite annoying.

Oh yeah? Because frantic overplaying of quads on toms/splashes/stacks/everything in sight is so much more original. </sarcasm>

Because that's exactly what he was suggesting. </sarcasm>

[Lucien]

SEVEN DAYS REMAIN

[BlobVanDam]

Dang! I didn't realize we were so close.