Dream Theater: The Astonishing (now with moment of betrayal!)

[Bertie_Wooster]

I hope they live tweet it.

[TL]

I'm just thinking, I really don't understand those guys saying that trailer animation sucks. I mean, ffs, they're a fucking BAND, not Star Wars' producers. The trailer is there just to be something fun, to help us visualise the story, while we are waiting for the album. We should be grateful for having any trailer in the first place. I mean, chill, guys

For literally the ten billionth time, no one is expecting hollywood level production.
Even within the context of it being the promo for a band putting out an album, I thought it was bad.

Some of you people should familiarize yourself with this;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Also, yes, if the album is amazing, then I won't give a shit about the quality of a pre-release trailer. Seeing as we are still pre-release though, and most of us haven't heard the album yet, we can only talk about what we have seen and heard.

Also, why are people insisting that "taking it seriously" and "having fun with it" are mutually exclusive. Like many bands (and indeed artists of any kind) DT do both.

I can only speak for myself, but my concern is that is that they'll take it too seriously.
From what we've seen of the story and characters and such, it could work if they have a bit of self awareness and just have fun with it, and you're right that fun and a bit of seriousness aren't mutually exclusive. I do think though that if they take this concept too seriously, it could be terrible.

[Pragmaticcircus]

Victoria is Nafaryus and Evangeline's daughter.

[|KirK|]

We've been talking about the quality of the trailer just because it's more or less the only thing we have... And in the trailer we have 20 seconds of new music, that's why we're focusing so much on the images than in the...words!!
But yes, we should appreciate more what they're doing for us and I do appreciate it!!! The video is pretty good and enjoyable, it's just.... the clock guy riding the raven!!! 
I just wanted to say that if I were the guy who worked on the animations I wouldn't have put that part in the trailer!!
I think all of that stuff will be really nice in the live shows!!!

However I'm so excited and hyped!! I think this album will be great!!

[Rodni Demental]

I can only speak for myself, but my concern is that is that they'll take it too seriously.
From what we've seen of the story and characters and such, it could work if they have a bit of self awareness and just have fun with it, and you're right that fun and a bit of seriousness aren't mutually exclusive. I do think though that if they take this concept too seriously, it could be terrible.

I think your perception of how serious the band is taking it, will influence how seriously you'll take it. I mean, don't get me wrong, it seems you don't want it to be taken seriously, it's just the way you're approaching your concern of their seriousness seems kinda.. serious? I wouldn't worry about it.
Even if if the final product seems super serious man, that sounds like something to not be taken seriously. 

I don't know if it's worth clarifying, but I'm refering to the kind of tragic seriousness like, "this is important stuff because look how seriously we're taking it". But I'm happy for DT to take it seriously in a sort of sincere way, as in they took the music sincerely not seriously.

[ariich]

Also, why are people insisting that "taking it seriously" and "having fun with it" are mutually exclusive. Like many bands (and indeed artists of any kind) DT do both.

I can only speak for myself, but my concern is that is that they'll take it too seriously.
From what we've seen of the story and characters and such, it could work if they have a bit of self awareness and just have fun with it, and you're right that fun and a bit of seriousness aren't mutually exclusive. I do think though that if they take this concept too seriously, it could be terrible.

I guess I don't really know what "too seriously" means. Was SFAM too serious? Because that's cheesky as fuck and considered by many (not me) to be one of DT's finest and one of the best prog albums ever.

[Pettor]

I think the trailer tells a lot of really awesome things. From previous albums I lacked some fun and inspiration. So Petrucci decides it's time to create a concept album. He develops characters, locations, event and overall story for the concept to take place. That should in itself be very inspiring, but having a visual touch to it adds a lot more and would add an extra element to the live show and album itself. And they have found a way to do that good enought imo.

For me the trailer just show a band that had a hell lot of fun during production. Imagine actually creating this album with various themes for the characters etc. and then actually bringing it to life with visuals. I don't see "taking it too serious" or whatever has been questioned. I think The Gift of Music in itself represents a great level of fun and serious.

There will be some visuals quirks but in the end take it for what it is. Should they have left out the visuals just because it couldn't meet the high expections that comes from visuals today. Surely not! If they felt visuals was a fun addition, then go for it! Personally I feel this is a project I would have loved to be part of.

[erciccio]

A couple of thoughts..

1) Visuals- I'm fine with them, and I'm sure that they will play their role perfectly during the shows...
They are supposed to be a background, not the main part of the show!
We'll be there for the music!
I find zillions of time more ridicolous stuff like this one below, considering that it was produced with 300€ Millions budget...


2) Drums production
Yesterday I played in my car SFAM and immediately after The Enemy Inside..
Well, it's clear that I have different tastes vs most of the people here, because I think that the drums production in TEI is way better than anything  in SFAM, it really kicks your ass! And in that song that kind of sound really works perfectly...(same for Behind the Veil, or Surrender to Reason)

The problem comes with songs like The Bigger Picture or Along For The Ride, where that kind of snare sound is totally out of context...
But I think TGOM goes in the right direction, beacuse the lower level of compression and the slighly different snare sound work certainly better..

Let's wait for the rest of the album in CD quality for a final judgment.

[BlobVanDam]

Also, why are people insisting that "taking it seriously" and "having fun with it" are mutually exclusive. Like many bands (and indeed artists of any kind) DT do both.

I can only speak for myself, but my concern is that is that they'll take it too seriously.
From what we've seen of the story and characters and such, it could work if they have a bit of self awareness and just have fun with it, and you're right that fun and a bit of seriousness aren't mutually exclusive. I do think though that if they take this concept too seriously, it could be terrible.

I guess I don't really know what "too seriously" means. Was SFAM too serious? Because that's cheesky as fuck and considered by many (not me) to be one of DT's finest and one of the best prog albums ever.

Cheesy as hell story (which they appear to have taken seriously enough), and on Metropolis 2000 the most awful visuals imaginable.
So I'm not worried about any of this stuff, as long as they deliver great music.

[MirrorMask]

I don't find SFAM's story or lyrics cheesy, and I don't even believe in reincarnation. I think it was the right approach of "seriousness" for that story.

[ariich]

I don't find SFAM's story or lyrics cheesy, and I don't even believe in reincarnation. I think it was the right approach of "seriousness" for that story.

"I've been given so much more in life; I've got a son, I've got a wife"

[Kotowboy]

Yeh the idea that that trailer would make the album worse in any way...

[MirrorMask]

I don't find SFAM's story or lyrics cheesy, and I don't even believe in reincarnation. I think it was the right approach of "seriousness" for that story.

"I've been given so much more in life; I've got a son, I've got a wife"

I like it. I like all of Through Her Eyes, music and lyrics and the moment of the story it conveys.

If at all, why bother mentioning having a family when it never ever gets mentioned before or since, were they on a road trip and daddy found nothing better to do than getting hypnosis sessions with the reincarnation of the killer of his former girly self?

[jakepriest]

Honestly the entire SFAM story is pretty terrible and incredibly cheesy. The music is top notch though so who cares? 

[ariich]

This is my point, it's all a matter of personal opinion and perspective. People are talking as though DT objectively did a "bad thing" with that trailer.

[The Astonished]

It's when I listen to those very long 70 minute albums where I truly realise the length of the upcoming monster that is The Astonishing. 135 minutes is freakishly long for an album. I really hope the listening procedure isn't affected much by its sheer scope.

[Pettor]

This is my point, it's all a matter of personal opinion and perspective. People are talking as though DT objectively did a "bad thing" with that trailer.

Exactly!

[zmazar]

It's when I listen to those very long 70 minute albums where I truly realise the length of the upcoming monster that is The Astonishing. 135 minutes is freakishly long for an album. I really hope the listening procedure isn't affected much by its sheer scope.

I agree.  Not gonna lie I'll probably end up taking a 10 minute break between Act 1 and 2.

[The Astonished]

It's when I listen to those very long 70 minute albums where I truly realise the length of the upcoming monster that is The Astonishing. 135 minutes is freakishly long for an album. I really hope the listening procedure isn't affected much by its sheer scope.

I agree.  Not gonna lie I'll probably end up taking a 10 minute break between Act 1 and 2.

You might have the right mindset with that volition. And I feel that its length might be too much to process for the first time, even though all of us wish for a fantastic and memorable first spin of the album.

[RoeDent]

I'll certainly be taking an intermission between the two discs. I often do this during 70-min+ single-disc albums, so I'll certainly need a break during a 130-minute album.

[Kotowboy]

I love listening to new albums on walks so I might plan a 70 minute walk and do it once per disk.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Sometimes, I wish that people viewed DT's music a little more like Rush's, in that the cheesy, nerdy moments would be viewed as more of a positive than a negative. As I understand it, Rush always took their music seriously, even though the lyrics got a little silly at times, but that became a part of their charm. I see no reason why I, as a fan, shouldn't approach Dream Theater the same way. I personally couldn't care less if the Astonishing is just a two hour geek fest.

[phospheneSOI]

This is my point, it's all a matter of personal opinion and perspective. People are talking as though DT objectively did a "bad thing" with that trailer.

Exactly!

I think the fact it's got so much attention - good or bad - means objectively it's not a bad thing for them

[phospheneSOI]

Sometimes, I wish that people viewed DT's music a little more like Rush's, in that the cheesy, nerdy moments would be viewed as more of a positive than a negative. As I understand it, Rush always took their music seriously, even though the lyrics got a little silly at times, but that became a part of their charm. I see no reason why I, as a fan, shouldn't approach Dream Theater the same way. I personally couldn't care less if the Astonishing is just a two hour geek fest.

Totally with you on this. In fact, I've been surprised by just how "serious" many DT fans take them. Don't get me wrong, DT are to be taken seriously at points like Rush are too, but overall DT have always been uncool and that's part of the reason I like them. SFAM might be amazing overall, but the story is fucking dumb.

[Darkstarshades]

For me, SFAM teaches you to appreciate life and the things you have, because others might not have been as lucky as you are, and the people that pass away don't disappear forever, they go on in our memories and that.

So I don't see why all the son and wife thing being unnecessary or cheesy is even a valid point.

[ariich]

For me, SFAM teaches you to appreciate life and the things you have, because others might not have been as lucky as you are, and the people that pass away don't disappear forever, they go on in our memories and that.

So I don't see why all the son and wife thing being unnecessary or cheesy is even a valid point.

That is EXACTLY my point. It wasn't a criticism of SFAM.

[TL]

Also, why are people insisting that "taking it seriously" and "having fun with it" are mutually exclusive. Like many bands (and indeed artists of any kind) DT do both.

I can only speak for myself, but my concern is that is that they'll take it too seriously.
From what we've seen of the story and characters and such, it could work if they have a bit of self awareness and just have fun with it, and you're right that fun and a bit of seriousness aren't mutually exclusive. I do think though that if they take this concept too seriously, it could be terrible.

I guess I don't really know what "too seriously" means. Was SFAM too serious? Because that's cheesky as fuck and considered by many (not me) to be one of DT's finest and one of the best prog albums ever.

It's not just seriousness. It's having a very cliche looking story and set of characters, and then treating it like it's much more profound than it is. Scenes stuck me as more creative. Plus, my first taste of Scenes was the music, and then I actually listened to the lyrics after being drawn in. The music set my first impression, rather than a marketing campaign with maps and character portraits that I don't find the least bit compelling.

But sure, it makes it a lot easier to argue if you leave out half the context of what I'm saying.

I hope I'm wrong. I really do hope that this album is amazing.

Sometimes, I wish that people viewed DT's music a little more like Rush's, in that the cheesy, nerdy moments would be viewed as more of a positive than a negative. As I understand it, Rush always took their music seriously, even though the lyrics got a little silly at times, but that became a part of their charm. I see no reason why I, as a fan, shouldn't approach Dream Theater the same way. I personally couldn't care less if the Astonishing is just a two hour geek fest.

I'm not talking about how seriously the fans take it. I'm talking about the tone the band decides to go with. Again, I really do hope that my initial impression from the marketing is wrong.

This is my point, it's all a matter of personal opinion and perspective. People are talking as though DT objectively did a "bad thing" with that trailer.

I can only speak for myself, but I think I've been pretty clear that I'm just stating my opinion. My opinion is that the marketing material so far, to me, looks bad. It's really not in line with my tastes though, and it's completely possible that some people really like what they've seen so far. That's okay! I'm literally just saying what I personally think of it. You don't have to agree. It's fine for people to express opposing opinions, but it gets a bit irritating when some people in this thread start to act like any kind of negative opinion is objectively wrong.

A couple of thoughts..

1) Visuals- I'm fine with them, and I'm sure that they will play their role perfectly during the shows...
They are supposed to be a background, not the main part of the show!
We'll be there for the music!
I find zillions of time more ridicolous stuff like this one below, considering that it was produced with 300€ Millions budget...

I mean, I hated Avatar, so I don't disagree on that point. 
Plus, something can be bad even if there are worse things.

[Tumdace]

I find it fascinating that alot of people are willing to let something like a cheesy trailer tarnish their idea of what the album MIGHT be like.

If you go into it with this negative attitude you aren't going to come out of it with much of a positive opinion.

[TL]

I find it fascinating that alot of people are willing to let something like a cheesy trailer tarnish their idea of what the album MIGHT be like.

If you go into it with this negative attitude you aren't going to come out of it with much of a positive opinion.

I didn't come into any of this wanting to be negative. That's just my honest reaction to what we've seen so far.

Let me ask you; what is the point of a trailer if you're supposed to just completely disregard it? Why do you think a trailer wouldn't be at all representative of the thing it's a trailer for?

I've said this over. And over. And over. When the album comes out, I'm going to listen to it with an open mind, wanting to absolutely love it. If it's great, then I'm not going to care about the quality of a pre-release trailer. At the moment though, since we haven't the album yet, the pre-release material is all I currently have to go on.

It's possible that it's just a bad trailer! I've seen terrible trailers for things I ended up really liking before. It happens. Hopefully this is one of those times.

[PixelDream]

I haven't been invested in this whole conversation, but man, did that trailer come off ridiculous. Not only the images, but the music too. My anticipation is pretty much gone now, I didn't like TGOM either. Sorry to be so blunt, I don't mean to take away from the folks who are looking forward to this.

[rab7]

I haven't been invested in this whole conversation, but man, did that trailer come off ridiculous. Not only the images, but the music too. My anticipation is pretty much gone now, I didn't like TGOM either. Sorry to be so blunt, I don't mean to take away from the folks who are looking forward to this.

What type of music were you hoping to hear? According to noxon, the music in the trailer completely misrepresents the album

[shadow1psc]

I think the best way to interpret Noxon (forgive me if I'm wrong sir), is that the trailer makes the album sound like A Nightmare to Remember 2.0, when its really closer to SFaM/6DoIT. I would imagine TGoM is a better representation of the album (progressive, dynamic, not chugga chugga) though, so if you didn't like TGoM I've got nothing.

[bosk1]

Personally, I don't think it "misrepresents" the album at all.  Perhaps it appears to emphasize certain aspects of the music that, in the context of the entire album, are somewhat secondary.  But I wouldn't say it misrepresents the album.

[GandL]

I liked everything that I've heard and saw up to now, even the trailer.  Hey I was looking at Rocket Robin Hood when I was young and that trailer is miles better 

[King Postwhore]

My ears must be broken.  I've heard that style of music from DT before.

I find it hilarious that people can formulate how an album is from 10 second snippets.