Myung's Bass Sound

[aglenn01]

First off, I love J. Myung's playing. Have seen DT several times ,twice from within the first 2 rows. Spitting distance from JM. He is a total monster, trust. What sparked this post , is that I am just looking at some of the early releases from Rush's R40, coming out soon, and Jesus, Geddy Lee's bass tones are just incredible. Why for the love of God, can't a beast like John Myung have that sound ?? I am certainly aware of some of the criticisms over the years regarding JM's bass sounds on records, (though Rush has had some negative reviews on sound also). God, it's not that hard. I hear so many records (from what I'm sure are much less "funded" bands) that sound sonically great, Why oh why cannot DT or Rush for that matter put out a good sounding record???   RANT OFF. Thoughts?

[jakepriest]

For the similar reason that MM has awful sounding drums and JP uses horrible tones lately. They just like it that way I guess, which is a shame.

[Nihil-Morari]

For the similar reason that MM has awful sounding drums and JP uses horrible tones lately. They just like it that way I guess, which is a shame.

Not to mention JR's organs. But yeah, taste, I guess.

[Lowdz]

My theory is its down to JPs use of 7 strings. You then start to compete for space with the bass. Some of those sounds on the Panic Attack stem are so low you're going to get rattle.

[wideworldofmike]

First off, I love J. Myung's playing. Have seen DT several times ,twice from within the first 2 rows. Spitting distance from JM. He is a total monster, trust. What sparked this post , is that I am just looking at some of the early releases from Rush's R40, coming out soon, and Jesus, Geddy Lee's bass tones are just incredible. Why for the love of God, can't a beast like John Myung have that sound ?? I am certainly aware of some of the criticisms over the years regarding JM's bass sounds on records, (though Rush has had some negative reviews on sound also). God, it's not that hard. I hear so many records (from what I'm sure are much less "funded" bands) that sound sonically great, Why oh why cannot DT or Rush for that matter put out a good sounding record???   RANT OFF. Thoughts?

I have seen them live quite a bit as well. I like their sound live better than the records in a lot of cases. Best Myung sound live I've seen they were on SFAM tour in Boston and they played this club that had just been re-built, the room was perfect for club music and the bass sounded HUUUUUUGE. They definitely sound amazing with the low end from bass super up front, sooooo much power and the rest of the band lost nothing.

Feel like Lowdz and Nihil-Morari are on to something, so much sound in this band to compete with, esp on a studio release.

Has anyone played around with those mix stems you can get and A/B'd with and without Myung? Thoughts on how their sound is built on the records compared to live?

[jakepriest]

My theory is its down to JPs use of 7 strings. You then start to compete for space with the bass. Some of those sounds on the Panic Attack stem are so low you're going to get rattle.

Just listen to Meshuggah, Deftones, Periphery, Tesseract. They use 7/8 strings and the bass has plenty of room and is sometimes even more audible than the guitar riffage.

[pcs90]

For the similar reason that MM has awful sounding drums and JP uses horrible tones lately. They just like it that way I guess, which is a shame.

Not to mention JR's organs. But yeah, taste, I guess.

What's wrong with the organs? At least the patches I'm thinking about sounded good to me. Do you have examples? If anything, JR's circus-type patches are the ones that need to change IMO.

and as far as JM goes, with some exceptions I don't have a problem with his tone, it's just that he's usually mixed low. Train of Thought and Images and Words have better bass mixes. I will say I wasn't a fan of the bass tone on DT12...love that he was upfront in the mix but it was just eq'd really strangely to me.

[EraVulgaris]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

[jakepriest]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

Imo they should just get Misha Mansoor as the producer through Jake Bowen. All the Periphery and Animals As Leaders stuff sounds fantastic.

[OsMosis2259]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

This would be a dream come true.

[BlobVanDam]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

I'd imagine it would sound as bland and soulless as Steven Wilson's own music.

[EraVulgaris]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

I'd imagine it would sound as bland and soulless as Steven Wilson's own music.

But you would be able to tell whats going on with each instrument. I love the production on songs like Wedding Nails, Sound of Muzak, Luminol or (more recently) Ancestral.

Regarding Dream Theater, to me the last album where the bass was really able to shine through the mix was FII. 

[Train of Naught]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

Imo they should just get Misha Mansoor as the producer through Jake Bowen. All the Periphery and Animals As Leaders stuff sounds fantastic.

Never thought of that, but Misha would be great for this job, IIRC he is currently working on his solo project, which he also produces.

[Buddyhunter1]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

Imo they should just get Misha Mansoor as the producer through Jake Bowen. All the Periphery and Animals As Leaders stuff sounds fantastic.

Anyone who disliked the drum sound on DT12 certainly wouldn't be happy.

[jakepriest]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

Imo they should just get Misha Mansoor as the producer through Jake Bowen. All the Periphery and Animals As Leaders stuff sounds fantastic.

Anyone who disliked the drum sound on DT12 certainly wouldn't be happy.

I hate the drum sound on DT12 and never had any issues with the drum sound on Periphery albums.

[Voices]

The bass sound of DT12 is AWESOME. The problem is the mix, how everything sounds like a "wall of sound". If the mix was more dynamic, all of it would sound way better.

[Cable]

^ yes.

JM all in all on albums volume wise isn't bad. We also have to consider the amount of doubling he does, and also how thick and stacked JPs tones are at times. With adequate bass reproduction via headphones and/or eq'ing, he is there. He certainly more up in the mix the last two albums.

That said, live it is a joke. I can never hear him, and even during his fill spots it's not loud. The only live album that did him justice was LSFNY, he is way up in that one.

[Outcrier]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

I'd imagine it would sound as bland and soulless as Steven Wilson's own music.

We're talking about sound, not songwriting.

[BlobVanDam]

Man, can you imagine what Dream Theater would sound like if someone like Steven Wilson were to mix their stuff?

I'd imagine it would sound as bland and soulless as Steven Wilson's own music.

We're talking about sound, not songwriting.

So was I! (although songwriting too)

[pcs90]

That said, live it is a joke. I can never hear him, and even during his fill spots it's not loud. The only live album that did him justice was LSFNY, he is way up in that one.

Really? I thought he was pretty clear on LAB as well...

[BlobVanDam]

He's cranked on LAB.

[rumborak]

I never understood how such a skilled and accomplished musician can continue having his musical output being marred by such bad sound. Half of the time he's not audible at all, and his solos were so distorted that you couldn't tell what he's playing.
The only time I was ever pleasantly surprised by his sound was when he was emulating Geddy.

[RedKlouD72]

For the similar reason that MM has awful sounding drums and JP uses horrible tones lately. They just like it that way I guess, which is a shame.

Not to mention JR's organs. But yeah, taste, I guess.

What's wrong with the organs? At least the patches I'm thinking about sounded good to me. Do you have examples? If anything, JR's circus-type patches are the ones that need to change IMO.

and as far as JM goes, with some exceptions I don't have a problem with his tone, it's just that he's usually mixed low. Train of Thought and Images and Words have better bass mixes. I will say I wasn't a fan of the bass tone on DT12...love that he was upfront in the mix but it was just eq'd really strangely to me.

I think that, at this point, his bass needs to be Eq'd that way in order to cut through.
(If we're not changing any of the the other instruments)

It's been a while since I watched, but the Official Bootleg DVD of them in Bucharest...   Myung was loud in that if I'm not mistaken...    VERY loud in the first few minutes, and then brought down.

[pcs90]

I think that, at this point, his bass needs to Eq'd that way in order to cut through.
(If we're not changing any of the the other instruments)

You may be right. Although with some simple changes to some of the other instruments and the mixing style that wouldn't have to happen. Hopefully the new album will take care of that, at least now that he's been mixed louder recently.