Author Topic: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #39 - 'The Perfect Stranger'  (Read 41068 times)

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Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #210 on: November 16, 2015, 05:29:56 PM »
I used to not like Hot Rats at all barring Peaches which I thought was a nice little tune and little more. Now I love Hot Rats all the way through and Peaches is easily top 5 in Zappa's entire body of work. What a magnificent piece. The guitar/flute unisons are so very pretty, and that build up to the sax run into the jammy, rocking section is fucking mint.

The rest of the album is great, but Zappa completely shot his entire wad on Peaches so it's kind of tough to follow, IMO. Green Genes is probably the next best offering.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #211 on: November 16, 2015, 10:02:07 PM »
I had a similar issue with Hot Rats at first. I enjoyed the whole album but Peaches was so good that nothing could live up to that. It's still one of his essential pieces IMO. 
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #212 on: November 18, 2015, 06:43:07 AM »
Hot Rats is fantastic! The first (chronologically speaking) album that I love beginning to end.

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #213 on: November 18, 2015, 11:33:29 AM »
Classic Zappa album, one of his most popular, and accessible. A great first or second album to check out for noobs. I also mostly paid attention to Peaches for a while when new to Frank, never really getting into the rest of the album like I did with Peaches, but Hot Rats grows on you, and gets better every listen. The 2012 CD version is the analog mix, similar to the vinyl version, if it's from RYKO, it's the 80s mix, which is the one I heard first, and both are worth hearing, both are like 2 different albums.

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #214 on: November 18, 2015, 02:29:35 PM »
Classic Zappa album, one of his most popular, and accessible. A great first or second album to check out for noobs. I also mostly paid attention to Peaches for a while when new to Frank, never really getting into the rest of the album like I did with Peaches, but Hot Rats grows on you, and gets better every listen. The 2012 CD version is the analog mix, similar to the vinyl version, if it's from RYKO, it's the 80s mix, which is the one I heard first, and both are worth hearing, both are like 2 different albums.

I got the Ryko version, makes me wanna have the vinyl version even more!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #215 on: November 19, 2015, 02:13:56 AM »
I have the vinyl version. Get it. The sound is gorgeous.
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #216 on: November 19, 2015, 01:46:09 PM »
So while searching for a good copy of Hot Rats on vinyl, I found Jean Luc Ponty Plays The Music Of Frank Zappa (JLPPTMOFZ) record. Somehow I never checked that one out, and although it's not going in the official Discography Discussion, cause it's not an official Zappa release, it really is worth checking out. The version of King Kong is really really rocking, great to hear George Duke play that one. (And man that piano solo on Music for...  :eek)
Listening to this record though, I can't understand why I like this instantly, and Hot Rats is a difficult one for me. Maybe it's the low expectations vs. the stamp of it being one of the best Zappa records. There are loads of solo's on this one too.

One big difference to me though is the diverseness in dynamics. The solo's go somewhere, the band follows, instead of just continuing a groove. (I'm trying to find things, it's not that that's the case all the time on Hot Rats)

Anyways, really enjoyable record, recommended!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #217 on: November 19, 2015, 05:15:11 PM »
Love that Ponty album. The highlight for me is America Drinks and Goes Home.
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #218 on: November 21, 2015, 05:27:32 PM »
Hot Rats is awesome.  I believe this was the first Zappa CD I actually bought, IIRC, and I was won over right away.  Fantastic from start to finish.  Every track is gold, Jerry, gold! :tup :tup

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #8 Hot Rats
« Reply #219 on: November 22, 2015, 05:23:50 AM »
Official Release #9 'Burnt Weeny Sandwich'
(Released 02/1970)




Background Information:
One of two albums of ‘Mothers left over material’. The next one ‘Weasels Ripped My Flesh’ focusses mostly on live material, this one is mostly about the leftover studio recordings. Both albums do have both live and studio tracks though.
Burnt Weeny Sandwich was also the name of the movie Zappa was working on at the time. Which, as you might’ve guessed, never really saw the light of day.


The Album Itself:
This one is quite the trip, even more than other Mothers’ albums. This one not only has all sorts of musical styles mixed together, but the composition also differ in age.
The album is constructed in a peculiar way too. It starts and ends with a tap-your-foot B side, tracks 2-5 are really a couple of (quite beautiful) short compositions with an extended guitar solo in them.
So that only leaves Holiday in Berlin, Aybe Sea, and Little House I Used To Live In.
Starting off with the first one. It really sounds like this one is right off of Uncle Meat, with the overdubbed double speed percussion and the clever arrangements. It originated as part of a Zappa stage production, which has a couple of names, but mainly called ‘Progress?’ (released on Ahead Of Their Time #61), which was performed throughout ’68. This version even uses the same recordings, as you can hear on Ahead of Their Time. The main theme of Holiday In Berlin was reused on 200 Motels (#13).
Aybe Sea is another short composed piece, like the ones Zappa could write all day. Ian Underwood’s amazing piano work is noticeable throughout this tune (and the entire album for that matter). The guitar overdubs is what makes this tune stand out from other Zappa compositions of that time.
Talking of piano work, Ian absolutely shines on the intro of Little House. It sets up the main theme perfectly. Most noticeable in this one is the use of odd time signatures. Mostly Zappa’s way of writing was in 4/4, with the odd jam in 5/8 or 7/8 every now and them. Those jam’s always stayed in that time signature though. The interesting thing about Little House is the way the band could be playing in 7/8 with the melody being in 11/8.
Jean Luc Ponty has a wonderful solo in this track, and so does Ian Underwood (again). The track could’ve done with a bit of trimming too, or maybe an actual end, instead of cutting the applause of a live recording.


Essential Tracks:
The Little House I Used To Live In
Holiday In Berlin, Full-Blown
Track 2-5 (Let's call it Igor's Suite)



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Offline Ultimetalhead

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #220 on: November 22, 2015, 03:56:09 PM »
BWS is a solid album. It loses a few points for me for lacking cohesion (the best FZ albums for me feel like a complete piece rather than a collection of unrelated songs). That said, it's full of nice melodies and quirky Zappa goodness.

And honestly, you can copy/paste my response for the next two albums as well. :lol These three albums all tend to run together for me a little bit. Not a lot of major standout moments. But that's okay. We're about to get into some seriously legendary shit.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #221 on: November 22, 2015, 05:30:50 PM »
This is another early one that I never filled in.  A friend of mine named Paul had a lot of Zappa, including most of the ones I didn't have, so it was always a treat listening to Zappa with Paul.  I remember listening to Burnt Weeny Sandwich at least once or twice, and it's great.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #222 on: November 22, 2015, 10:03:30 PM »
This album and the follow up, Weasels Ripped My Flesh, are like The Beauty and the Beast; Burnt Weeny Sandwich is the 'Beauty'.

For the Zappa noob: Live albums are just as, and sometimes more, essential than Zappa's "studio" albums. Just about all of Frank's albums released in his lifetime are studio albums, due to overdubs, splicing in studio tracks with live tracks, unique compositions, etc...

Lots of themes from very early in Frank's career (pre-Mothers) appear here. This album, though, continues the explorations into jazz that started with Uncle Meat and Hot Rats at the same time, but this is still a Mothers album, and while it's not the most essential Zappa album, you can't go wrong with this one, especially if you appreciate Zappa's complex-prog instrumental side more. To me, aside from the book-ending doo-wop songs, and the epic finale piece "Little House I Use to Live In", the middle tunes on the album all flow into each other and feel like one long suite.

Underrated album in Zappa's massive discography. I recommend this one if you haven't heard it yet. The "bootleg" album, Electric Aunt Jemima, is a good companion album to BWS (Similar vibe, different songs, mostly instrumental, similar sound quality)

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #223 on: November 24, 2015, 03:06:08 AM »
Burnt Weeny Sandwich seems to be the least discussable album thus far. After listening to this one, and seeing it in context with Hot Rats I was surprised by Little House, how much it resembles both the Mothers, and Hot Rats.
Any thoughts on that?
And what do you guys think of releasing two albums full of unreleased material after the band split up?
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #224 on: November 24, 2015, 03:16:08 AM »
Man, I'm having to dig deep on this one. I've got it somewhere. This one probably shows off the musical abillity of the original Mothers the best.
Musically this is a solid cd. The two coversongs are performed well, I especially liked Valary. House I used to live in made my jaw drop a couple of times. Great playing and the ending is great.
I was somewhat puzzled by the altercation afterward with the audience member who demande that 'the uniforms should leave the building' only to be rebuked by Zappa that 'everyone in this building is wearing a uniform, and don't you forget it.'

I liked the idea that Frank had so much material lying around that he was able to release two full cd's worth. That was the positive, I love BWS, I absolutely abhorr, or HATE Weasels ripped my flesh! Godddd!
But I guess it was worth the layover period before one of the greatest Mothers ensembles in existance took center stage.
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #225 on: November 24, 2015, 05:20:56 AM »

But I guess it was worth the layover period before one of the greatest Mothers ensembles in existance took center stage.

Flo and Eddie? Wazoo band?

I think everyone forgets there's still 3-5 albums before the classic mid-70s band albums.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #226 on: November 24, 2015, 05:25:27 AM »

But I guess it was worth the layover period before one of the greatest Mothers ensembles in existance took center stage.

Flo and Eddie? Wazoo band?

I think everyone forgets there's still 3-5 albums before the classic mid-70s band albums.

I loooove the Flo and Eddie stuff! Already looking forward to that.
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #227 on: November 24, 2015, 06:22:37 AM »
I meant Flo and Eddie! Love that period. All in the future, though.....
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #228 on: November 24, 2015, 06:24:12 AM »
Still just following along and loving it!   Keep em coming!!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #229 on: November 24, 2015, 09:44:31 AM »
I meant Flo and Eddie! Love that period. All in the future, though.....

I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the 73/74 lineup, as the Flo n Eddie period is not considered that great by a good chunk of the fan base. I like that period myself, but I can't say those albums are my go-to when I have a Zappa craving (Except Chunga's Revenge, but that album is more in line with the Hot Rats/King Kong/Burnt Weeny Sandwich albums prior. Can't wait for that album.)

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #230 on: November 24, 2015, 09:56:00 AM »
Burnt Weeny Sandwich seems to be the least discussable album thus far. After listening to this one, and seeing it in context with Hot Rats I was surprised by Little House, how much it resembles both the Mothers, and Hot Rats.
Any thoughts on that?
And what do you guys think of releasing two albums full of unreleased material after the band split up?

I think BWS is a generally underrated album in the Zappa canon. It's overshadowed by its brother album Weasels, what with that artwork; Hot Rats is his most popular album besides a couple of later ones, earlier Mothers albums are more in your face (AF, WOIIFTM) so I think the timing and what surrounds it overshadows the albums popularity. Also, the music. If you don't like the doo-wop aspect of Zappa, (which I find great, and also hilarious) you're already turned off by this album. Also, the middle songs are fine, but nothing 'too' crazy. Frank would make better versions of this type of instrumental prog rock jazz fusion, but it's pleasant to listen to. The epic at the end is great, I don't know why more people don't talk about it. It's great classic 70s prog rock, with a heavy dose of jazz-fusion.

To answer your last question, I think it's great, and shows how much material he already had in 1970. He never really stopped.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #231 on: November 24, 2015, 09:56:21 AM »
I really enjoy "Theme" through "Little House" but the rest of the album is a bit of a miss for me. I don't listen to this album very much but I usually enjoy it when I do.

And honestly, you can copy/paste my response for the next two albums as well. :lol

Ditto.

Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #232 on: November 24, 2015, 09:56:21 AM »
Still just following along and loving it!   Keep em coming!!

Thanks for the kind words!


I meant Flo and Eddie! Love that period. All in the future, though.....

I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the 73/74 lineup, as the Flo n Eddie period is not considered that great by a good chunk of the fan base. I like that period myself, but I can't say those albums are my go-to when I have a Zappa craving (Except Chunga's Revenge, but that album is more in line with the Hot Rats/King Kong/Burnt Weeny Sandwich albums prior. Can't wait for that album.)

Haha, I love how we differ in Zappa taste! But we'll discuss that later. Next one coming in a couple of days!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #233 on: November 24, 2015, 10:05:32 AM »
Still just following along and loving it!   Keep em coming!!

Thanks for the kind words!


I meant Flo and Eddie! Love that period. All in the future, though.....

I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the 73/74 lineup, as the Flo n Eddie period is not considered that great by a good chunk of the fan base. I like that period myself, but I can't say those albums are my go-to when I have a Zappa craving (Except Chunga's Revenge, but that album is more in line with the Hot Rats/King Kong/Burnt Weeny Sandwich albums prior. Can't wait for that album.)

Haha, I love how we differ in Zappa taste! But we'll discuss that later. Next one coming in a couple of days!

I love it all, but I obviously have my preferences. I initially got into Zappa for the jazzier side of his music, but eventually realized I loved everything. Also depends on my mood or time of day. Just about all these albums so far have been listened to at night. For some reason, most albums recorded prior to 1972 is generally listened to at night. I think I like my madness in the dark for full effect.

It's been a while since I've listened to any Flo n Eddie albums, so my opinions on them might change.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #234 on: November 24, 2015, 07:19:46 PM »
Burnt Weeny Sandwich seems to be the least discussable album thus far.

For me, it's one of those albums that I've dug so deep into that there are a lot of things to talk about but I have a hard time giving a focused comment.  :lol

It's one of my favorites. One of those albums I didn't get the first time but something about it drew me in and eventually I grew to appreciate it. I love both of the doo wop tunes, but the highlight of the album for me is Holiday In Berlin. The way it goes from soft to harsh, very harmonic to very dissonant. It really shows Frank's ability to seamlessly move from ugly to beautiful in his piecess.

Little House is such a good jam. It is definitely the missing link between the Mothers and Hot Rats. It helps that it has Don Harris soloing, since he played such a prominent role in Hot Rats.

I suppose this is the first major example of Frank compliling various leftover material into one album and managing to make it all sound coherrent. This would become one of his trademarks. It becomes increasingly obvious through the discography that Zappa didn't care for recording in the studio. It eventually got to the point that you couldn't hear a single studio recorded song without some sort of live track mixed in.

I like that this album shows the Mothers strength in the studio, while Weasels focuses more on the live side. I usually like to play them back to back.
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #235 on: November 24, 2015, 07:43:46 PM »
I can't remember how many times I've played BWS on my car stereo, the album sounds so good. Love Holiday In Berlin so much!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #236 on: November 26, 2015, 09:50:49 AM »
Forgot to mention that Burnt Weeny Sandwich from the 2012 UMe reissues has superior sound to the old RYKO's. It's the analog mix.

The next album, Weasels, is also the analog mix on the UMe 2012 release, so it has the superior sound; but with that album, the RYKO one has more music, so both are essential.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #237 on: November 26, 2015, 10:27:47 AM »
I haven't heard the 2012 Weasels. Planning on doing so for this thread. I love the extra music on the ryko but the mix has never quite sat right with me.
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #238 on: November 26, 2015, 10:40:33 AM »
I haven't heard the 2012 Weasels. Planning on doing so for this thread. I love the extra music on the ryko but the mix has never quite sat right with me.

I was never thrilled with WRMF, but I liked the 2012 UMe version immediately, and appreciate the album more.

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #239 on: November 26, 2015, 12:13:24 PM »
I haven't heard the 2012 Weasels. Planning on doing so for this thread. I love the extra music on the ryko but the mix has never quite sat right with me.

I was never thrilled with WRMF, but I liked the 2012 UMe version immediately, and appreciate the album more.

Ah didn't know that, will check it out!
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #240 on: November 29, 2015, 02:20:29 AM »
I don't listen to this album very much but I usually enjoy it when I do.


This. It's a fun album, and looove Little House. Listened to it today on vinyl, finally :)

Still just following along and loving it!   Keep em coming!!

Also this  :tup
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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #241 on: November 30, 2015, 02:18:34 PM »
Next one coming in a couple of days!

Getting anxious to just put Weasels on.  ;)

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #242 on: November 30, 2015, 02:33:38 PM »
Holiday in Berlin, little house alone sells the record  :metal
"The thing that kills me is all these bands that use huge words in their lyrics, 'I'm swimming in a vortex of apathy.' I'm like, 'What?' I don't walk up to a friend and go 'That's a stylin' looking vortex of apathy you've got there pal. I was swimming up a river of deceit myself."
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Offline Nihil-Morari

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #243 on: December 01, 2015, 07:13:12 AM »
Next one coming in a couple of days!

Getting anxious to just put Weasels on.  ;)

Yeah do so! I'll be finished later today! (Had a busy weekend, my first DJ gig ever  :lol )
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Offline darkshade

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Re: The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #9 Burnt Weeny Sandwich
« Reply #244 on: December 01, 2015, 09:25:42 AM »
Next one coming in a couple of days!

Getting anxious to just put Weasels on.  ;)

Yeah do so! I'll be finished later today! (Had a busy weekend, my first DJ gig ever  :lol )

I was thinking of listening to the analog version from he 2012 CD, then the RYKO one when we get to it.