The Frank Zappa Discography Thread - #39 - 'The Perfect Stranger'

[KevShmev]

Same here. I had never even heard of this album until reading this thread just now, and I have to admit that I have little urge to it out.

[Nihil-Morari]

Yeah I get that. If the Doo-Wop stuff isn't your cup of coffee, Zappa made it real easy on you. I'd suggest to check out one or two of my essential list on youtube though. This is actually one of the only albums he's made that fun all the way through, imo.

[jammindude]

I begged for this thread to exist for probably almost 2 years, and this is why.  I really want to hear and read more about albums I don't have yet. 

At this point, I'm so fascinated by the man himself, that I will probably (albeit very slowly) end up making the journey to pick up most if not all his non-collection albums. 

Thank you for the heads up regarding the re-record...that is truly a disappointment.   It's only been fairly recently that the Zappa family started to release newly packaged (and I *think* remastered??) re-releases.   Does the original version exist?  Or is the new release only the 1984 re-record?   

[Mosh]

You'd have to get Greasy Love Songs to hear it.

https://www.amazon.com/Greasy-Love-Songs-Frank-Zappa/dp/B003OFKGJS

Bit of a bummer that they didn't release the original Ruben master in 2012. Not sure why ether, they released the original WOIIFTM.

[Nihil-Morari]

I begged for this thread to exist for probably almost 2 years, and this is why.  I really want to hear and read more about albums I don't have yet. 

At this point, I'm so fascinated by the man himself, that I will probably (albeit very slowly) end up making the journey to pick up most if not all his non-collection albums. 

Thank you for the heads up regarding the re-record...that is truly a disappointment.   It's only been fairly recently that the Zappa family started to release newly packaged (and I *think* remastered??) re-releases.   Does the original version exist?  Or is the new release only the 1984 re-record?

Like Mosh said, there's Greasy Love Songs, but there's more.
I have the original version on Vinyl, that one's pretty easy to find. Actually, finding the 1984 version on vinyl would be really difficult. And then there's youtube, just search for Zappa Ruben 1968 and you're there.
In 2012 a sort of extensive compilation was released (Understanding America (officialrelease #93)) but even that used the 1984 tapes. I don't really get what Zappa liked about re-doing those old albums, especially with a sound that obviously would go out of date very fast. 

[bout to crash]

Yess, I have this one on vinyl and love it! Just listened to it the other day but will have to give it another spin.

[Mosh]

I begged for this thread to exist for probably almost 2 years, and this is why.  I really want to hear and read more about albums I don't have yet. 

At this point, I'm so fascinated by the man himself, that I will probably (albeit very slowly) end up making the journey to pick up most if not all his non-collection albums. 

Thank you for the heads up regarding the re-record...that is truly a disappointment.   It's only been fairly recently that the Zappa family started to release newly packaged (and I *think* remastered??) re-releases.   Does the original version exist?  Or is the new release only the 1984 re-record?

Like Mosh said, there's Greasy Love Songs, but there's more.
I have the original version on Vinyl, that one's pretty easy to find. Actually, finding the 1984 version on vinyl would be really difficult. And then there's youtube, just search for Zappa Ruben 1968 and you're there.
In 2012 a sort of extensive compilation was released (Understanding America (officialrelease #93)) but even that used the 1984 tapes. I don't really get what Zappa liked about re-doing those old albums, especially with a sound that obviously would go out of date very fast.

Do you think he knew it would go out of date that fast? This might be a question better asked to some of the board members who were around at the time (e.g. Orbert), but maybe he thought that 80s sound would have the same timeless quality as that of the 60s and early 70s? Most of those albums aged really well.

Combine that with his fascination for the current technology, I can kinda see where he's coming from. And I do agree that the drums on those two albums aren't good. Especially WOIIFTM. JCB sticks out like a sore thumb on some of the more experimental Zappa recordings IMO. Don't get me wrong though, I'd still take that over those awful 80s overdubs. 

But yea, the part that's baffling to me is that the ZFT didn't reissue the 68 Ruben in 2012. They reverted back to the original masters on just about every other album, including Money.

[Nihil-Morari]

I'd love to hear if the 80's synth pop was considered to be timeless. I can't really see how such a new way of making music, or making sounds even, would be anything more than cool or interesting. As I'm typing this a lot of exceptions spring to mind though.

[darkshade]

Cruising With Ruben and the Jets is flat out 1950s doo-wop and R&B, to put on when you're making out with your girlfriend after your first date, and maybe she won't notice the flashes of Zappa brilliance and humor hidden within the music.

This is one of a very few albums you could skip, and it wouldn't make you less of a fan, and you wouldn't really miss much. Most of these songs pop up in other albums, too, albeit in different forms. It's more of a curio piece, and if you're gonna check this one out, listen to the original 1968 mix which is on Greasy Love Songs, or the vinyl if you find it, as mentioned already. How Could I Be Such A Fool has a cool, though short, groove going on towards the end. "Anything" has a nice jazzy sax solo. Other moments throughout make you realize you're not listening to any old doo-wop album, but mostly this is Zappa's "happiest" album, or most upbeat, least offensive, and generally fun album all around. In the context of the 60s Mothers, this album just adds to the insanity of that era, especially being surrounded by LG, WOIIFTM, and the follow up to this album.

This is not an album I was in any rush to check out when I was new to Zappa. I don't think I first heard Crusin' for at least a year or two after getting into Zappa. I find I only put this one on when doing run-throughs of Zappa's discography, like right now!

[Orbert]

I don't really get what Zappa liked about re-doing those old albums, especially with a sound that obviously would go out of date very fast.

Do you think he knew it would go out of date that fast? This might be a question better asked to some of the board members who were around at the time (e.g. Orbert), but maybe he thought that 80s sound would have the same timeless quality as that of the 60s and early 70s? Most of those albums aged really well.

I honestly don't know why Frank decided to mess with his original works, but count me among those who felt that he had a bit of a "George Lucas complex" about it.  As an artist and a real perfectionist, my sense was that it always bothered him how the original albums did not reflect his vision for the work.  He's mentioned a few times how he's always loved composition and that part of the process, and we've seen in retrospect that there was always a "serious composer" in him trying to get out, so in the early days, he worked with what he had, which was mostly rock ensembles and sometimes hired guns.  It doesn't surprise me that he was sometimes disappointed in what ended up on albums bearing his name, and that he had it in his head to "fix" them when he had the time and resources to do so.

I'm getting ahead of the timeline here, but it's relevant so I'll mention that when my first Zappa album, Sheik Yerbouti, came to CD, he'd taken the opportunity to re-edit some of it.  Mostly he just messed with segues between songs, but there was also some remixing and remastering done.  He seemed to see the CD as a new medium, and the opportunity to re-work what was originally a double LP into a single CD was a opportunity to tighten up his work.  "All tracks segue" was something I saw right in the liner notes a few times during that era.  That's his right to do, just as it was always George Lucas' right to re-edit and fuck up Star Wars as much as he wanted.  I don't know how much fans of the original work have the "right" to be upset by it, but there's no question that that was one result.  A friend of mine from work (and fellow Zappa fan) grabbed it on CD when it came out, and we were both disappointed, so I never got it.  In particular, I remember that a lot of the electronic freaking out at the end of "I'm So Cute" was cut, and I love that part.  On the LP, it was the last song on the side, so it made sense in a way to just let it go on.  On the CD, it cut quickly to the next song, originally the first song in the next LP side.  Bummer.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that he'd gone so far as to re-record parts of earlier albums for the CD versions.  Knowing how much painstaking effort Frank put into work like this, and how some tracks are Frankenstein composites (basic track recorded live, except the drums which come from another song, plus studio overdubs, etc.) I guess it's not surprising, and if he felt that the result better reflected what he thought the music should be, then that's his prerogative.  And as with Lucas, he was apparently not concerned with those who might just want to experience the original in a new format.

Weird, I'm comparing the original Star Wars trilogy on Blu-ray to original Zappa/Mothers albums on CD, but that's basically it.  We just want what we grew up with, not the "new, improved" versions.

[Mosh]

The George Lucas comparison makes sense. They also use the same excuse that the original tapes were damaged/lost/whatever.  Although one major difference is that unlike the original Star Wars, it's not too hard to get ahold of the original versions of those Zappa albums in good quality.

I guess I understand where Frank was coming from. Those old albums have their flaws. I also get the feeling that in the 80s, Zappa was trying to "disprove the myth" that the original Mothers was the best band he was involved with. He did this with the YCDTOSA series as well, juxtaposing Mothers recordings with stuff from the current bands. That was a pretty cool idea, but I think it's safe to say messing with the old Mothers recordings kinda backfired on him.

[darkshade]

I don't really get what Zappa liked about re-doing those old albums, especially with a sound that obviously would go out of date very fast.

Do you think he knew it would go out of date that fast? This might be a question better asked to some of the board members who were around at the time (e.g. Orbert), but maybe he thought that 80s sound would have the same timeless quality as that of the 60s and early 70s? Most of those albums aged really well.

I honestly don't know why Frank decided to mess with his original works, but count me among those who felt that he had a bit of a "George Lucas complex" about it.  As an artist and a real perfectionist, my sense was that it always bothered him how the original albums did not reflect his vision for the work.  He's mentioned a few times how he's always loved composition and that part of the process, and we've seen in retrospect that there was always a "serious composer" in him trying to get out, so in the early days, he worked with what he had, which was mostly rock ensembles and sometimes hired guns.  It doesn't surprise me that he was sometimes disappointed in what ended up on albums bearing his name, and that he had it in his head to "fix" them when he had the time and resources to do so.

I'm getting ahead of the timeline here, but it's relevant so I'll mention that when my first Zappa album, Sheik Yerbouti, came to CD, he'd taken the opportunity to re-edit some of it.  Mostly he just messed with segues between songs, but there was also some remixing and remastering done.  He seemed to see the CD as a new medium, and the opportunity to re-work what was originally a double LP into a single CD was a opportunity to tighten up his work.  "All tracks segue" was something I saw right in the liner notes a few times during that era.  That's his right to do, just as it was always George Lucas' right to re-edit and fuck up Star Wars as much as he wanted.  I don't know how much fans of the original work have the "right" to be upset by it, but there's no question that that was one result.  A friend of mine from work (and fellow Zappa fan) grabbed it on CD when it came out, and we were both disappointed, so I never got it.  In particular, I remember that a lot of the electronic freaking out at the end of "I'm So Cute" was cut, and I love that part.  On the LP, it was the last song on the side, so it made sense in a way to just let it go on.  On the CD, it cut quickly to the next song, originally the first song in the next LP side.  Bummer.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that he'd gone so far as to re-record parts of earlier albums for the CD versions.  Knowing how much painstaking effort Frank put into work like this, and how some tracks are Frankenstein composites (basic track recorded live, except the drums which come from another song, plus studio overdubs, etc.) I guess it's not surprising, and if he felt that the result better reflected what he thought the music should be, then that's his prerogative.  And as with Lucas, he was apparently not concerned with those who might just want to experience the original in a new format.

Weird, I'm comparing the original Star Wars trilogy on Blu-ray to original Zappa/Mothers albums on CD, but that's basically it.  We just want what we grew up with, not the "new, improved" versions.

The new reissue of Sheik is the original version on CD.

[Orbert]

Truly?  I want it.

[Mosh]

Yep. It sounds great! It's a direct transfer from the original master.

[Nihil-Morari]

Thanks Orbert! I can totally see the comparison too, and I still think there will be 'ultimate editions' of all Zappa albums available sometime. The next reissue maybe. The Sheik Yerbouti thing is a valid one too, I remember loving the LP much more than the cd, but I never really could put my finger on it.

Funny enough I see most people finding Ruben an album for completionists. It's quite possibly in my top 10 most played Zappa albums. Not saying that it's in my top 10 favorite Zappa albums, but this is an album that you can play in the background. Or even, like Darkshade said, on dates. My girlfriend likes this album too, which is awesome.

[Cyclopssss]

This is one I don't own. For completists, there are some great versions of songs from this era (and others) on the brilliant 'The Lost Tapes'. There's a great version of 'Fountain of love' with a bass track fed through a fuzz pedal, which makes for an interesting effect. Also there's fun versions of Anyway the wind blows and 'Charva' with lyrics that'll make you laugh out loud, I promise.

Throughout, there's some early captain Beefheart recordings (recordes sans earphones, because Beefheart didn't like singing with them on) like 'Tiger Roach' and 'I'm  a bandleader' which coins the prase 'Grand Wazoo' !

[Mosh]

I think the problem with this album isn't that it's necessarily bad, but in terms of original Mothers, it doesn't really introduce a new dimension of their sound. There are several other more essental Mothers albums that have the doo wop sprinkled in, which makes this album non-esssential for anyone who wants to have a full understanding of this particular band. Just about every other Mothers album does this, or presents the band in a way we haven't heard before.

[darkshade]

This was going on around the same time.


The Monkee's Michael Nesmith playing Zappa who is playing Mihael Nesmith

[Nihil-Morari]

Will be updating with Uncle Meat in a couple of days!

In other news: have you guys checked out Roxy The Movie? It's awesome!

[Cyclopssss]

Just saw the trailer. Looks promising. How long is it? Any favourites yet?

[Nihil-Morari]

Just saw the trailer. Looks promising. How long is it? Any favourites yet?

The main feature is 105 minutes, which is too short of course. I love actually seeing the Bebop Tango, after listening to Carl, Rick and Jane dance for years and years, you can now actually see them dance.

[Orbert]

One of the reviewers seems to really hate that part.  Says it drags, and isn't any better when you can see them.  I'm pretty much the opposite.  It cracks me up just imaging them twitching around on stage while Frank and the band messes with them.  I'm looking forward to seeing them, and of course Lana and Brenda.

[darkshade]

Amazing, in the time that this thread has been around, which has not been that long, already two new Frank Zappa releases have come out/been announced.

The Roxy Movie is finally out (btw, where can I view this/buy this? Amazon?) and Official Release #101 has been announced for December - "200 Motels: The Suites"


https://www.amazon.de/dp/B016Z4697C

Not sure why The Roxy Movie (which contains a CD) is not #101, and 200 Motels: The Suites is #102, but lots of things don't make sense in the chronological sense of Zappa's canon. Then again, the DVD/Blu-ray releases are never counted, only when it's a separate CD-only release, like Roxy By Proxy, Token of His Extreme and Dub-Room Special, etc...

[bout to crash]

One of the reviewers seems to really hate that part.  Says it drags, and isn't any better when you can see them.  I'm pretty much the opposite.  It cracks me up just imaging them twitching around on stage while Frank and the band messes with them.  I'm looking forward to seeing them, and of course Lana and Brenda.

Agreed!

[Mosh]

+2! The visuals totally enhances it. Plus it's pretty close to how I imagined it

It's a cool video. I don't have the same connection with Roxy as most fans, I was introduced to the Helsinki Tapes first and that will always be my go to for the 74 band and the superior album to my ears. That said, the DVD still had me with chills at the end. It felt like a very special performance, especially Frank seemed even more into it than in other footage I've seen (Token of His Extreme comes to mind).

That early rendition of Inca Roads is so cool! Wasn't familiar with that one.

[XB0BX]

The concept of Frank Zappa appeals  to me, but did he ever do any actual music? Everything I've heard is comedy, and I don't listen to music to laugh.

[darkshade]

The concept of Frank Zappa appeals  to me, but did he ever do any actual music? Everything I've heard is comedy, and I don't listen to music to laugh.

Zappa's music is the only music that can still make me laugh, snicker, even after multiple listens. I find much of the humor even funnier the deeper into his music you get (Conceptual Continuity)

However, I disagree that his most humorous stuff was not musical. O-NS and Apostrophe are quite very musical albums, though it is filled with funny words and subject matter. SYB rocks your face off, and Joe's Garage brings in funk, reggae and jazz-fusion though both albums are his most controversial and humorous, lyrically.

Are you listening to select tracks, or full albums? If you listen to full albums, you'll realize that while humor is a big part of Zappa's sound, it is only one aspect, but one that is probably most noticeable to new or uninitiated listeners.

[Cyclopssss]

Yellow Shark, zappa meeets the TSO. His neo-classical stuff.

[Nihil-Morari]

The concept of Frank Zappa appeals  to me, but did he ever do any actual music? Everything I've heard is comedy, and I don't listen to music to laugh.

Actual music? Like with notes and instruments and everything? Gee, that's a hard one.

Joking aside, he didn't like lyrics, he didn't like listening to them or indeed writing them, so yeah, you'll get deeper lyrics on a Green Day album. I you can't stand un-serious music, you could try his instrumental albums. There's both guitar solo oriented records (just the solo parts of live renditions of his songs) and his neo classical music. But since you only like real music, neo classical and solo's only would be difficult to sit through.

Try looking up a song called Inca Roads, preferably the 'A Token of his Extreme' version. If that works for you, I could start from there.

[Orbert]

There's also some instrumental and mostly-instrumental albums from his "regular rock" period before he dug into the neo-classical stuff.

Hot Rats is a fave.  The second track has vocals, but the rest is instrumental.  I like The Grand Wazoo, although I seem to think there's a track with vocals somewhere on there, too.

[Mosh]

For the "serious" side of Zappa, Hot Rats is the one to go to no question. It's impossible not to love Peaches En Regalia.

[Cyclopssss]

The Grand Wazoo. But perhaps these posts are better suited in the 'general' Zappa thread.

[Orbert]

Probably.

[Nihil-Morari]

Totally.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=884.0

Update tomorrow!

[Nihil-Morari]

Official Release #6 'Uncle Meat'
(Released 03/1969)




Background Information:
A very, very advanced record. Zappa already set the bar high in terms of composition, diverseness and recording technique, but he surpasses everything he had already done with this album.
Zappa was already making films before his first record came out, Studio Z, the studio he had as a 24 year old, was his filmset. 200 Motels was supposed to be a science fiction movie incorporating The Mothers' sexual escapades while touring. The movie turned out to be way too expensive to actually finish. The CD booklet states 'This film is stashed away in my basement, while we scheme on how to raise 300,000 dollars to finish it'
New in the group was Ruth Komanoff (later Ruth Underwood) playing marimba, vibes and percussion. She would wind up to really define the sound of Zappa's music.
Although bits of the movie were released in the 80's, the entire movie was never finished.
The combination of live tracks and studio tracks makes this record a very diverse, but also a very all-over-the-place album. As if pop, classical and modern classical music, together with spoken word wasn't enough. This one is on the brink of being too much.
Also, this really feels like a compilation album, like Zappa would make later in his career. A bit of everything he does on one album.


The album itself:
To be really clear about this one, the addition of 40 minutes of movie dialogue and 'Tengo Na Minchia Tanta' are among the weirdest additions to a CD reissue ever. Skip those. I get the fact that without them the album would've been 79 minutes, so a single CD, but too long to deal with, so adding stuff and making it a 2CD makes sense. But not this.
Anyway, on to the music.
There's a couple of classic Zappa tunes on this album, both Uncle Meat/Uncle Meat Variations, and Dog Breath/Dog Breath variations have been played on numerous tours, and have been released countless times.
Both of those are great examples of Zappa's songwriting. Strange melodies, far out rhythms, bizarre orchestrations and still you're humming along with them, smiling every time you fail.
Other than that the aforementioned pieces (together with The Legend of the Golden Arches/A Pound for a Brown on the Bus, and the underrated Zolar Czakl) prove that Zappa was way ahead of his time in terms of overdubbing. Not only are there up to 40 tracks in a single song (1969, people!), some tracks are double speed, or half speed to give another layer to these songs.
The difficult pieces have to be balanced out. There's quite a couple of funny, short, foot-tap songs: 'The Air' is a lovely doo-wop kind of song, Sleeping in a Jar and Electric Aunt Jemima are funny ditties, Cruisin' for Burgers quite a bit more intelligent than those, but Mr. Green Genes takes the cake. A more dark, brooding track, like Trouble Every Day off of Freak Out!
And just when you thought this album couldn't hold any more greatness: King Kong.
A jamtrack, a live favorite, ranging from a short interlude, up to a 30 minute solo extravaganza. A short theme, and then a bunch of solo's over a 3/8, one chord loop.
Project X deserves an extra mention. An extreme overdubbing etude. Greatly orchestrated, impressively ingenious, wonderfully written. Really one of Zappa's greats. It's a pity that it's that ingenious that it couldn't be performed live, and never went on to become a Zappa classic.
Overall this is a great record. The Mothers show everything they've got on this one. Only downside: sometimes it's a bit too much, and it loses coherence.


Essential Tracks:
Uncle Meat: Main Title Theme
Dog Breath, In The Year of the Plague
Mr. Green Genes
The Air
Project X
King Kong (Part 1 and 4 if you insist)


PS. Thanks for waiting guys, took a bit longer than I anticipated, but the discussion stayed alive!