Screw Vinyl

[Skeever]

Bands with big names. That's where the extortion prices come in. Even so, yeah I am completely "astonished" by the ridiculous price on The Astonishing.

[seasonsinthesky]

That's not to say I necessarily disagree. I see a lot of music getting treated poorly on vinyl just to cash in, whether it be pressing the brickwalled CD masters directly (a lot of metal reissues, particularly by Back on Black) or not formatting the tracklist correctly (i.e. stupid fading choices, or putting "All of the Above" on a single side!). I fear Transatlantic may suffer from both of these problems, actually. Haven't heard them yet.

Actually, "All Of The Above" is split across the first two sides of SMPT:e's vinyl.

https://www.radiantrecords.com/products/617-transatlantic-smpte-2lpcd.aspx

-Marc.

Woohoo! Sad they weren't so careful for "Into the Blue," "Duel with the Devil" and "Stranger in Your Soul," though.

[TAC]

I've never bought a vinyl album or even personally played one.

What??

[Prog Snob]

I've never bought a vinyl album or even personally played one.

What??

I find that ironic since you listen to a lot of AOR, from what I've gathered.   

[The Letter M]

That's not to say I necessarily disagree. I see a lot of music getting treated poorly on vinyl just to cash in, whether it be pressing the brickwalled CD masters directly (a lot of metal reissues, particularly by Back on Black) or not formatting the tracklist correctly (i.e. stupid fading choices, or putting "All of the Above" on a single side!). I fear Transatlantic may suffer from both of these problems, actually. Haven't heard them yet.

Actually, "All Of The Above" is split across the first two sides of SMPT:e's vinyl.

https://www.radiantrecords.com/products/617-transatlantic-smpte-2lpcd.aspx

-Marc.

Woohoo! Sad they weren't so careful for "Into the Blue," "Duel with the Devil" and "Stranger in Your Soul," though.

The same can be said for Spock's Beard's "The Great Nothing", which had a perfect spot for it to split, but they crammed it all onto one side. Oh well...

-Marc.

[Nihil-Morari]

In Europe vinyls are getting more and more marketshare. In the Netherlands I think 2014 estimates were about 30% of the total physical sales with the expectation of further growth. And it is also the reason there are many recordstores here again, opposed to a few years back when most seemed to be closing. In the UK I have also seen reports of vinyl doing really well.

In 2015 vinyl sales were higher than CD and DVD combined. I've read that somewhere, could be a statistic only about that specific store though.

Anyway, I love hi res blu ray audio. I don't have a 5.1 setup. I've just spent about 1500 euros on a new stereo amplifier, CD player and pre-amp for my record player. Cables, speakers and a new record player are next. I have never seen a decent 5.1 set. Aka, a set that's not made for HEAVY BASSES for when the alien spaceship flies over in the newest sic fi movie.

I really think 5.1 is still more movie oriented. Sure, if more bands release 5.1 blu ray audio mixes the industry would get more interested, but that's not happening I believe. I mean, what's the best blu ray player for audio? And don't say it doesn't matter, cause it does.

[Chino]

I love my vinyl.

[cramx3]

It really makes no sense to go to a blu ray/DVD audio option at this point.  Vinyl works because it has great sound AND its retro so there is a certain aspect of it that makes it cool.

There is just no point in making a new audio medium when everything is digital.  I agree with the idea of releasing audio in 5 channels though.  That can be done digitally, no need to use physical media though.

A lot of people love the HDtracks that you can download, if they had 5 channel releases for download, I think I would buy those.

[goo-goo]

I would love to get into vinyl but at the moment but would like to have a decent setup.

[Implode]

Time to rank!

1. Vinyl with lossless/HD digital download
2. Vinyl and CD
3. Lossless/HD digital download
4. Vinyl
5. CD
6. MP3

[Nihil-Morari]

Time to rank!

1. Vinyl with lossless/HD digital download
2. Vinyl and CD
3. Lossless/HD digital download
4. Vinyl
5. CD
6. MP3

Haha, DTF: making lists about everything.

1. Vinyl and CD
2. Vinyl
3. CD
4. Spotify/streaming
5. HD download
6. Other download

I used to download everything, because I couldn't afford to buy music. After that I lost interest in downloading at all. I've downloaded some HD tracks in the past, but I never listen to them. There's nothing to hold, nothing to look at. Vinyl and CD is the best option for me. Big artwork and audio quality for when I'm at home, CD's for in the car.
And I'd like to add Spotify, I've got quite a big library of albums in Spotify. Stuff that I can't find on CD, or stuff that's too expensive for how good I think it is. Spotify is my go-to place for new music as well, when I need to check out something because of a review, it's on spotify.

[Big Hath]

1. CD
2. Lossless download


















3. mp3

[Art]

Screw vinyl and all the other physical formats, for me.

I get the same pleasure from downloaded music (and i´m not talking about illegally downloaded, i pay for all my music, even if i download a crappy leaked version of it before the release date out of curiosity) that i used to get from K7/CDs when i was younger. It took me some years to admit that, and i still have a huge pile of CDs that i don´t even have how to play anymore, but i have embraced digital music, and i´m not looking back.

[cramx3]

If the list is just what you prefer than...

MP3

and that is pretty much it.  The lossless stuff is nice, but my ears ain't good enough to tell between 320kbps and lossless.  I have never actually listened to the HD tracks, I believe those actually have slightly different mixes? If so than that could be worthy, but I don't see much of a point unless they do 5 or 7 channel surround sound for me to pay the higher price.

I still buy CDs sometimes, but I prefer to just have all my music digital at this point.

[Zantera]

I don't mind digital music (I listen to a lot of it), but after being a Vinyl/CD buyer, I could never pay money JUST for the digital music. To me the money is for the whole package, so basically the artwork, lyrical sheet and so on. Something I can hold in my hands. Paying for a CD or Vinyl, and I get something unique that is different to what I can pirate for free. Buying digital music which is exactly like pirated music just feels like flushing the money down the toilet in a way.

[cramx3]

I don't mind digital music (I listen to a lot of it), but after being a Vinyl/CD buyer, I could never pay money JUST for the digital music. To me the money is for the whole package, so basically the artwork, lyrical sheet and so on. Something I can hold in my hands. Paying for a CD or Vinyl, and I get something unique that is different to what I can pirate for free. Buying digital music which is exactly like pirated music just feels like flushing the money down the toilet in a way.

Not sure I understand... for one, a digital album is often cheaper than the CD and also I am not sure how it is flushing money down a drain if you purchase digital music vs. illegally downloading.

[Zantera]

I don't mind digital music (I listen to a lot of it), but after being a Vinyl/CD buyer, I could never pay money JUST for the digital music. To me the money is for the whole package, so basically the artwork, lyrical sheet and so on. Something I can hold in my hands. Paying for a CD or Vinyl, and I get something unique that is different to what I can pirate for free. Buying digital music which is exactly like pirated music just feels like flushing the money down the toilet in a way.

Not sure I understand... for one, a digital album is often cheaper than the CD and also I am not sure how it is flushing money down a drain if you purchase digital music vs. illegally downloading.

Buying something that is identical to what I can get for free (through pirating) vs buying something I can't download and something I can hold in my hands, essentially.

To me it really is a package thing. The music, the artwork, the lyrics, the product. If you strap it down to just digital songs, then I don't really feel that same urge to pay for it. Maybe a few exceptions like if it's a smaller band I like, that might not afford pressings, I might pay for the digital just to sponsor them.

[cramx3]

I don't mind digital music (I listen to a lot of it), but after being a Vinyl/CD buyer, I could never pay money JUST for the digital music. To me the money is for the whole package, so basically the artwork, lyrical sheet and so on. Something I can hold in my hands. Paying for a CD or Vinyl, and I get something unique that is different to what I can pirate for free. Buying digital music which is exactly like pirated music just feels like flushing the money down the toilet in a way.

Not sure I understand... for one, a digital album is often cheaper than the CD and also I am not sure how it is flushing money down a drain if you purchase digital music vs. illegally downloading.

Buying something that is identical to what I can get for free (through pirating) vs buying something I can't download and something I can hold in my hands, essentially.

To me it really is a package thing. The music, the artwork, the lyrics, the product. If you strap it down to just digital songs, then I don't really feel that same urge to pay for it. Maybe a few exceptions like if it's a smaller band I like, that might not afford pressings, I might pay for the digital just to sponsor them.

Makes sense.  I guess there is part psychology to holding something physical that you paid for.   Most of my CDs and DVDs as well are just collecting dust so I just try not to add to that anymore, but I have a hard time NOT buying the CD for my favorite bands.  Such as pre-ordering The Astonishing.  Which I know I will rip and then never touch again, but I feel the need to buy these for bands that I love like DT.

[Nihil-Morari]

I guess that's the main difference. I would never rip the stuff I own physically. Just to keep it special. I know that if I want to listen to a King Crimson album, I have to listen to it on vinyl. Same goes with Meshuggah, if I want to listen to them, it has to be on CD. I've got a different collection on every format. Some bootlegs and unreleased stuff on MP3, some official releases that just don't own on FLAC, some stuff to check out on Spotify etc.
Drawback is that if I go for a walk with my headphones on, I won't listen to stuff that I absolutely love (well... there's the 'search' function in Spotify). Same goes with CD's, I rarely listen to 70's music in my car, just because I'd rather own that on vinyl.

[ytserush]

There. I've said it.

Now, let me say, I have plenty of vinyl, old and new, but I am beyond tired of seeing it as the primary physical alternatives to CDs.

Vinyl was great, and still makes for a beautiful presentation. That said, there are better alternatives out there now, and it's annoying to see a retro trend make real progress more difficult. DVD and Blu-Ray audio offers a different, but equal or superior listening experience. And it does it in 5 channels. This is what bands should be doing. We should be hearing "Transatlantic will finally be available on DVD-A!", not that it's finally coming out on vinyl. (For just one recent example.)

All this is, 90% of the times, is a cash grab. Take existing music, press to vinyl, see $$$ flow in. Doing a proper DVD-A mix of this material would actually take time and money, but would result in an actual product worth having. And I would have to think that the much cheaper costs of producing DVDs would offset the initial costs somewhat.

As for new music, yes, sometimes people do a special master for vinyl, which is great, but again, not what they should be focussing on, imo.

Physical music might be in enough of a decline that this great format never really latches on, or becomes a popular option, and that sucks.

/rant

Depends.

Mastering. 

Origin of the source material.

Lack of quality control at the pressing plant.

Since it still really is a niche item they can justify the higher price. Small press runs don't help.


Too many X factors to make an informed decision.


I'll admit I haven't bought a ton of new vinyl (pressed within the last 20 years) due to a lot of this.

If I can nail down most of those questions I'll probably invest. But even then it can be a crap shoot and a crap shoot at $50 is a lot less appealing than one at $15.

I still think a lot of vinyl that was pressed until the mid-80's is likely to sound better than a CD, but even that depends on who mastered it and what tapes they used.




That said, DVD-A is another niche format and similar rules apply.

Well said!

A lot of it DOES depend on when the original album was recorded, and where and how it was recorded.

"Remastered" versions of analog recordings were NOT always superior to the originals. I remember when radio stations started playing CD versions of the old classic rock songs and albums, and a lot of them sounded like crap compared to the original recordings.

But like you said: There are a lot of "X" factors.

Yes, there are a LOT of factors at play, but let's take things recorded now as our primary example. It's all done digitally, and if equal care is taken, the DVD-A is going to beat the vinyl release 95% of the time, as far as a listening experience is concerned. Not that others haven't done well, but Steven Wilson especially is a testament to how amazing the format can be.

I will never content that vinyl doesn't offer a great aesthetic value, but to me the music is the #1 priority.

Under those conditions, there's not much of a point to vinyl as far as your soundscape is concerned. In that context, I'd argue that vinyl is obsolete (Which I guess means I'm agreeing with you. I've not really considered getting much vinyl under those digital conditions because it holds no musical value for me.)