BL5150 Roulette - Ghost Protocol......GRAND FINAL RESULTS

[Lowdz]

I've found it pretty difficult to send quality stuff you haven't got. It's been good though. As others have said I've had a listen to stuff I haven't played in a while. Years even, with one of my ep entries.

[bl5150]

Yeah..........it can force the participants out of their comfort zone as much as the host.   For example I have been scouring my dance and rap collection in preparation for the Bolsters roulette ........it took me 5 minutes to realise I don't have one and so I might need to ask Chad for some help 

[jjrock88]

Dance and rap collection lol

[Bolsters]

I'll have to remember to put Animotion on my banned list.

[Lowdz]

Nearly sent you some country...

[Evermind]

I have a feeling both 9.5 and 7.75 are mine, which means my EP isn't that great in terms of consistency - and consistency seems to be a winner thing in this round.

[jingle.boy]

I'll have to remember to put Animotion on my banned list.

Don't worry, I can dig deeper.

[bl5150]

One final listen now guys........so 3 hours or so away from results.

My final post (on preview now) is too big for DTF to handle    so it'll be split across two posts.

[King Postwhore]

 

[wolfking]

Let's get it on.

[Big Hath]

[wolfking]

[TAC]

[Big Hath]

[wolfking]

[jingle.boy]

I love you.

[wolfking]

I love you.

[bl5150]

“Sorry to have taken so long...........it must’ve been a bitch while I was gone “   - Paul Stanley   

I finally got there folks! 

Thanks for all your final round submissions  – I appreciate the amount of thought and time that went into them .   As our Aussie boxing legend Jeff Fenech used to say “I luv yez all” and so it’s tough to pick one winner but we’ve got to that point and there is a winner. Like Chad’s it was unbelievably close .      Each song has had at least 10 listens and I am getting a bit sick of the “album” now and so it’s time to draw a line under this.    I slightly underestimated the task in ranking 27 diverse songs in one round  but we got to a point where I am comfortable with them. I also thought that having a 20 point final round would make a clear winner easier to decide – wrong! 

My stack rankings change each day to some extent (which is one reason why I prefer to rate) but I am confident in the groupings around each ranking – that’s where I put most of my focus.........there needs to be a clear difference in my enjoyment of the songs in each rating group and , now that I have settled on that I am quite happy.

I have really concentrated on shutting my eyes, absorbing the music and then grouping how much I enjoyed the various songs , rather than taking them to pieces and analysing them to death , so in many cases the comments are reasonably brief.  Unlike the comprehensive track by track review of the new Dream Theater album (imaginary) in the DT 13 thread..........gotta love DTF.

Groupings below...............we ended up with a few more 9+ scores than I originally indicated as there was a few growers .

Groupings:

9.5:  Driver , Avantasia

9.25  Zar, Bullet For My Valentine, I Am I,Kerzner,

9  Malpractice,  Black Tora,

8.75 Arwen, Beyond Fear, Leverage, Dio, Saga,

8.5 Land of Tales ,Bride, Final Frontier, Gamma Ray, Mastodon, Whitecross, Phideaux,Aenimus, Edenbridge

8.25  Phantom’s Opera, Neon Cross,  Rhapsody

7.75  Ian Anderson


Evermind

1.Axel Rudi Pell : The Guillotine Suite (intro) (1:52)  Rating = N/A

I don’t tend to count intros etc.... in my album ratings – if it’s amazing and will improve the album rating (rare) then I might but otherwise I don’t feel an intro should detract from an album rating and so I have not individually rated this.  Quite a nice intro for the EP though and sets up the Avantasia track nicely.


2. Avantasia : Sign Of The Cross (6:26) Rating=9.5

So ............the one and only Avantasia album I don’t have – not sure why that is.  You know I would probably prefer Edguy on the whole and am a bit iffy on multi vocalist albums and so here we have a  4 pronged multi vocalist song from a multi vocalist album........ballsy? .    I am not going to try and understand all the characters here in the “opera” – it basically comes down to the listening experience for this song .  Musically it’s very good and a nice example of the riffier style of power metal that I tend to favour , there are some real nice change ups to keep things interesting and a very melodic , Edguy like chorus.  Vocally I thought it was a bit up (mostly) and down (which is why I often struggle with this style) but thankfully the weaker vocals (Matos) weren’t used heavily . I really like Matos in plenty of stuff but here I found his verses briefly drained all the momentum from the song........I didn’t penalise you heavily as it is short lived , it may make more sense in the context of the album, I liked your intro and the chorus is stuck in my head anyway   On the whole – very nice power metal that really hit the spot for the most part and a nice change up in the solo section too.


3. Phideaux: Helix  (5;54)  Rating =8.5

I found this to be a nice , mellow song with a strong jazzy female vocal performance , a haunting keyboard presence and some nice progressive elements. This style possibly isn’t my favourite but for what it is its very good, her vocal tone has a touch of the Floor Jansen’s in it and grew on me quite a bit over multiple listens


4.  Ian Anderson : Wooton Bassett Town (3.44)  Rating=7.75

Sorry mate...............I know you viewed this as a bit of an ace up your sleeve but it didn’t quite do the same for me.  I liked elements of the music here = the folk and the rock elements meshed well , the lyrics and the concept were strong too but for me they didn’t really come together perfectly as a unit.  It’s a pleasant track no doubt but I didn’t find myself itching to hear it again........and his voice is just okay.   It’s probably just me (I’m one of the few who on DTF that feels meh towards SFAM ) but this really feels like a track off the sort of concept albums that don’t agree with me.   The lyrics feel shoehorned into the music .......like “I have written my story/lyric and it is going to be used even if it doesn’t quite suit the music I have written”.  You can hear him speeding up/slowing down to make the lyrics fit the music.  And this is one of the reasons that I struggle with many concept albums – those with striking individual songs that stand on their own two feet regardless of the concept (Mindcrime/Crimson Idol/Streets) are very few and far between.


5. Gamma Ray : Empathy (5.04)  Rating= 8.5

This was a tough one to rate.  I have expressed misgivings about Hansen’s songwriting and vocals at various times , but then he has some songs that I love too.  In this instance I really liked about half the song (especially the guitar rhythms and solo section)  but struggled with the vocals which are very average to say the least, barely in tune at times and really took a lot of the life out of the song for me , especially in the chorus .   There were another couple of times (eg....“but I’m sure they are turning AWAY" in what is otherwise a great pre-chorus) where it just sounds unfinished in a songwriting sense.  I hear a lot of things that need fixing.   It seems like we’re headed for a 6 or 7 here but  in the end the overall quality of the majority of the song and the instrumental sections won the day and I still enjoyed it , but with a decent vocalist (he sounds like Andi Deris with tonsilitis) and a tweak here and there it would’ve rated as high as 9.5.

TOTAL: 17.25/20



Bolsters

1. Arwen : Infinity (4.54)  Rating= 8.75

Well this one sure has some awful reviews around the traps    But I am the only reviewer that matters in this thread and I thought it was quite good.    There are some parts of the song that remind me a bit of a less technical Angra (which isn’t a bad thing).  This is solid prog power metal that has enough going for it to rate well and the nice solo section added a bit of a boost to the score– the rest of the song though is not quite spectacular enough to attract a 9 but not too far off.


2. Dave Kerzner: The Lie (5.05) Rating=9.25

As everybody knows by now , old style prog rock/neo prog (and early efforts from Floyd etc...) don’t tend to go down well with me and that’s not because I am against that style.  It’s just that a lot of bands in that style are either too “pompy” (wimpy) , the prog often detracts from my enjoyment of the song (proggy sections that outlast their welcome and cease to contribute to the song) or just too  etc.........    This song is a good example of a song of that style that DOESN’T bother me.  It has some progressive elements , a bit of that psychedelic Floyd feel about it but it is melodic at all times and has enough edge to it so as not to feel “pompy.”  Nice Satriani-esque solo section too and probably the biggest "grower" of the round.


3) Edenbridge: MyEarthDream (12.38)  Rating=8.5

Funny the things you remember – many years ago with one of my earliest CD orders from AOR Heaven I received a promo disc for a recently signed band called Edenbridge.  I checked it out and thought it was average and that was the end of them for me – I’m not very forgiving     I hear a lot of Symphony X in the chugging rhythms here , there’s some really nice orchestration (some of the strings reminded me of the s/t After Forever album which is a fave of mine too) but on the whole I thought it was lacking killer hook/groove (aside from 5.30) to travel the whole 12+ minutes in total comfort.  I was drifting a bit at the 8-9 minute mark.    it gets an 8.5 as it did have plenty of strong points along the way (her voice and the orchestration, the outro) , but for me it was a few minutes long for the quantity of musical ideas involved. 


TOTAL: 17.75/20
 

[bl5150]

THis is no jingly mind game but I need to rush out for 15 mins.............serious 

[jingle.boy]

THis is no jingly mind game but I need to rush out for 15 mins.............serious 

I applaud you for fucking with your participants.

But Avantasia and Dio ... seriously??

[bl5150]

THis is no jingly mind game but I need to rush out for 15 mins.............serious 

I applaud you for fucking with your participants.

But Avantasia and Dio ... seriously??

Well the rules were clear and some went the extra mile in terms of trying to pick out albums from well established artists that I may not have.  Some said the same about Foghat 

Back to the rest of the results.........

[Bolsters]

I was worried The Lie wasn't going to connect with you very much, glad I was wrong.

And dafuq? I had no idea any Avantasia stuff was still on the table, that's even more surprising than Primal Fear.

[bl5150]

jjrock88

1. Dio: One More For The Road (3.18)  Rating= 8.75

There’s not a great deal I can say about this one – strong , but fairly typical Dio track from one of the couple of Dio albums I don’t own.  I definitely prefer his more pacy stuff and this fits the bill nicely. 


2. Saga : On The Loose (4.13)  Rating= 8.75

I would’ve thought this was a bit too synth pop rock for you JJ     I had always written off Saga as too wimpy for me as well but for 1981 this is pretty good for what it is.  Some of those keyboard sounds are a bit cringeworthy but I can tell that if I had grown up with this it would sound heavier than coming to it right now where my tastes are the heaviest they have ever been.  Having said all that I do like Sadler’s voice better than Geddy Lee and most of the early prog rock singers and I gather this is probably more “single material” for a band that were usually a bit more proggy?     

3. Neon Cross: On The Rock (2.35)  Rating=8.25

Pretty basic heavy metal here with nice crunchy guitars and some decent vocal acrobatics.  At 2.35 they were there for a good time, not a long time....like this comment  .


4. Whitecross: He Is The Rock (4.36)  Rating= 8.5

Your strategy of serving up a heavy dose of Christian metal has worked well to this point as it’s not the strongest area of my collection (although I have a couple of rippers for your roulette if you don’t have em) , so to see Whitecross here is no surprise.  I do like Rex Carroll as a guitarist so that’s a good start , and the song has a nice Ratt vibe but this is pushing the limits to which I can tolerate preaching in my metal. I have an old favourite Christian metal song that is all about preaching the evils of drugs and how you waste your life etc.... and I can handle that .  But this one (even for a guy who pays scant attention to lyrics) is just a bit over the top and pretty cheesy to boot.

I mean...............

It's a Friday night I'm ready to party
Getting' down with the guys til half past three
Crusin' for trouble, action for fun
But who's foolin' who we forgot God's Son

That’s a bit much for me.  Fortunately the rest of the lyrics ain’t quite so bad and the song does rock , but not quite as much as Jesus   Nice solo as per usual from Rex.

5. Driver: Change of Heart (5.15)  Rating: 9.5

I do know this song (I bought this after the roulette started , so allowed and JJ didn’t know that) and it’s a real nice ballad – good to see Mr Rock singing something a bit different too.   Simple , melodic , moody and timeless writing in Foreigner style.    Good one JJ – not the sort of thing that many (including me) would’ve picked to top the EP round – or for you to send - but sometimes simple works.

TOTAL: 17.5/20



Big Hath

1. Mastodon: Dry Bone Valley (4.00)  Rating=8.5

Like Kade you have proven quite adept at picking songs that appeal to me from artists that I may not relate to majorly across their whole catalogue.  This has the sort of melodic and rhythmic attributes that I like wrapped up in alternative sounding song.

2. Bride: Everybody Knows My Name (4.22)  Rating= 8.5

I have one of Bride’s albums and they always struck me as a 2nd rate GnR but this is actually good , straight ahead hard rock with a singer in the vein of Axl/smiley Pearl/Wildside.  This sort of music is always a good listen – it rocks hard with lots of attitude but it’s just missing that killer melody to take it up into the 9’s.


3. Black Tora: Fuel My Hunger (3.20)  Rating= 9

Pretty much repeat what I said about Bride , just got me tapping the foot a bit more...........not GnR sounding but a real cool hard rocker with attitude ,a  vocalist that can scream and a decent guitar solo.


4. Aenimus: Seven Circles of Hell (3.54)  Rating=8.5

 I found the riff decent but fairly generic and vocal in the verses quite flat/distant , but the chorus and solo section were catchy/enjoyable and saved it to a large extent.


5. Leverage: Rise/Wolf and the Moon (6.56)  Rating=8.75

These guys are always reliable...........they rarely produce anything bad at all , but it can be very samey (a bit like sister band Brother Firetribe).  This track (with intro) is from the only album of theirs that I don’t have , and their most recent.  It’s fairly typical of their stuff with a huge sound, chorus and nice combination of keys and heavy guitars.  In the end I didn’t find enough there that I haven’t heard before to elevate it into the 9’s , although the rhythm change up near the end might just have snagged an extra 0.25.  And I didn’t notice those awful lyrics

TOTAL: 17.5/20



Lowdz

1. Zar: Spellbound-Hellbound (5.52)  Rating=9.25

This is an interesting one – very familiar in some ways but with enough fresh stuff going on to prick up the ears.  And that’s when I start considering ratings in the 9’s- when I hear something I really like that also doesn’t sound exactly like everything else (which implies some more thoughtful song writing, unique vocal etc...).  This is nice melodic rock/metal with some pretty decent guitar and vocal work (almost Tate like) in there amongst it too. 

2. Phantom’s Opera: Etched In Stone (7.23)  Rating=8.25

I think I have told you before that I have So Long To Broadway and thought it was pretty awful.  Having Terry Brock on board obviously makes a difference (even though he sounds a bit flat to me) but I just don’t seem to connect with their style totally.  For some reason it took a couple of listens for me to pick up on the heavy Purple influence there too – but it’s pretty obvious..  It’s definitely not something I would call bad and I have no aversion to this sort of dramatic vibe but for me there wasn’t enough variety in the melodies to carry a 7.5 minute song and there was no spectacular musicianship/writing to break it up either.  The production is a bit rough around the edges too IMO. Having said that this did grow on me and the rating is a bit better than it started out.


3. Rhapsody: Dawn of Victory (4.47)  Rating= 8.25

This was a brave submission too given my well documented caution towards double kick drumathon happy style power metal.  For what it is this was one of the lesser annoying examples I have heard I suppose but a song like this really has to have something special about it for me to want to listen regularly and unfortunately this one is good but also pretty generic IMHO.  I didn’t think Fabio’s vocals were a standout either – good but that’s all.


4. I Am I : This Is My Life (5.52) Rating = 9.25

I quite liked this .........ex Dragonforce singer doing something a bit more melodic and less “out there.”   He actually has a Terry Brock tone at times , so it doesn’t surprise me that it’s up your alley Paul.    Good song ,especially on the rhythm side of things but the guitar solo was a bit rank which took a little bit of the gloss off and a quarter point(here Brent goes again.......tearing the guitarists a new one   )

TOTAL: 17.25/20



wolfking

1. Malpractice: Symmetry (4.11) Rating=9

Kade wasn’t to know but I actually bought this album during the course of the roulette – it was allowed at the start and that’s all that counts.  Unfortunately it’s not my favourite from the album but that’s no big deal as I like almost everything on it to some degree.  This sound a bit like a less proggy Fates Warning mixed with some Eyewitness (if anyone knows them) and suits me just fine.  It ticks boxes for melody, originality and some nice playing – almost perfect symmetry


2. Land of Tales: Silence (3.27)  Rating= 8.5

I was expecting this to be a bit more power metal based on the band name and the opening guitars but it’s really more like AOR with crunchy guitars (and a pretty low rent keyboard sound).  I wouldn’t award huge marks for originality but they do have a nice sound and some cool melodies......somewhat familiar actually but I can’t place it which is probably a good thing for you ........Change of Heart perhaps?   I can’t say that I am a huge fan of guitar solos that begin with the chorus melody – rather unimaginative , but that’s a minor point.  Overall I enjoyed the track but not enough to differentiate it from many others ranked in the 8’s.


3. Beyond Fear : Scream Machine (5.34)  Rating= 8.75

I actually thought that Ripper sounded much better live than on the Priest records and here he sounds a bit more like the live Ripper that fucked up my ears    This is a nice brutal metal assault on the senses.  Again nothing that takes it over the top in terms of melodies or musicianship but a really solid metal track.


4. Final Frontier: Foolish Pride (4.45)  Rating=8.5

I have used the word “brave” to describe a couple of submissions and this is no exception.  I have mentioned Rob Moratti by name a couple of times in this roulette as an example of “squeaky” vocalists that can annoy me (you missed that I am betting).  And here he is squeaking away like a door hinge that needs some oil........funny thing is the dude is a juiced up bodybuilder – maybe there has been some shrinkage .  Speaking to him might be a bit like David Beckham -the voice just ruins the whole vibe      Anyway.........this song is pretty standard , but very well done , AOR and in the end his voice does have its own character , even if it is slightly annoying.  Luckily we’re rating a song and not an album as I think he would wear thin with me pretty quick over the course of an album. That guitar solo is the sort of jumpy , rhythmic lead work that I like (think Vito Bratta) and added a touch to the score.


5. Bullet For My Valentine: The Last Fight (4.19)  Rating=9.25

This was probably brave too as the song does have that modern edge to it that seems to turn me off on most occasions but that hyperactive riffing  made up for a lot and the vocalist doesn’t use ridiculous  accents on his voice like a lot of modern metal singers .  Nothing spectacular here in terms of songwriting or musicianship, just another well written but fairly simple song where all the parts came together nicely and won me over – not unlike Blessed By A Broken Heart’s “Shut Up And Rock” .   I have heard songs from them that I think are rubbish but this was a good choice.   Another band that has a lot of iffy material in terms of my taste , but which you have managed to pick a good song from.  I bet you didn’t think this would be your highest score and bacon saver!

TOTAL: 17.75/20




GRAND FINAL STANDINGS


I basically just converted to a score out of twenty and rounded - the winner would've been the same on raw score.


wolfking  9.5+9.5+9+8.5+9 +10+9+9=73.5+17.75=91.25
Big Hath 9+9+9+8.5+9.5+9 +9+10=73.5+17.5=91
Evermind 10.5+9.5+9+8.5+8.5+8.5+9+10 = 73.5+17.25=90.75
Bolsters  9+9+8.5+9.5+9.5+9+10+8.5=73+17.75=90.75
jjrock88  10+10+8.5+9+8.5+9+8.5+8.5= 72+17.5=89.5
Lowdz  8.5+9.5+9+7.5+8.5 +9+9.5+9= 70.5+17.5=88


Congrats to wolfking............again!  He does alright for a guy with no songs to send this fella!  Hath, Evermind and Bolsters can all consider themselves very unlucky – it was that tight and it would’ve felt right if either one of you had ended up on top.

And that brings us the to the end of the “impossible” roulette.    I would like to thank every one of you for taking part and making the impossible possible.  It wasn’t easy I know............most of you had to put in a fair bit of extra time into digging very deep and I genuinely appreciate the big effort involved.   Everything about this roulette was BIG :

- the number of participants
- the number of rounds
- the number of songs (esp this round)
- the number of banned artists
- the amount of time you guys put it
- the amount of time I put in (has to be a record for correspondence back and forward), and of course
- Hath has been Big

Despite all of the above I hope that everyone enjoyed themselves and that , for the most part at least , you felt that everything ran smoothly and correspondence was acknowledged and replied to properly etc......I tried to make a point of doing that.  We bent some of the usual rules (banning albums rather than artists etc.....and allowing songs that I had heard but didn’t own) but it did make things easier for many of you and allowed some people I wanted in the roulette a chance to participate when they otherwise may not have.  Hopefully the first timers didn’t find their initiation too painful.

As I mentioned in the Rd 10 results I couldn’t have asked for a better group than you guys as there was just the right balance of familiarity and diversity in your submissions. Each and every one of you submitted something that scored a 9 and so ...............job done 

From my point of view I achieved pretty much everything I wanted to and the format worked well for me at least:

- I had some DTF Faves confirmed as not really my thing , but I also have a few that now require second thoughts
- I have had a few gaps filled in the areas where my collection is really strong – and Kade in particular was great in terms of picking tracks I like from bands that hadn’t interested me based on my sampling
- all of you have introduced me to new bands of interest
- a few of you pushed me into areas I otherwise wouldn’t have pursued and am now inclined to check out further
- JJ has fleshed out my Christian metal catalogue
- I got some nice instrumentals to listen to
- I was reminded of some old artists from my childhood that I really need to revisit




And so on..............hopefully I surprised a few of you with my openness to new things (as long as there was melody there) – I surprised myself a couple of times.

And with that I’ll declare the BL5150 Roulette closed.  I can’t see it happening again you’ll be relieved to know     I have many hundreds of albums that I have discovered over the last few years that I haven’t even got around to hearing yet , so my focus will be there and sharing some of those hidden gems with you good folk no doubt.  If any of you guys get around to doing roulettes yourselves (some already on the way) and think I can contribute then I’ll be happy to take part and return the favour .   

[Bolsters]

Damn, that is as close a final as I think I've ever seen. Everything is between 17.25 and 17.75. But congrats to Kade once again! You're on a roll dude.

Thanks for having me Brent, this was a lot of fun - one of the best roulettes I've participated in. Just scouring the depths of my collection looking for gems and rediscovering things I'd completely forgotten about was great. Very smoothly run aswell, especially given the size of this roulette and that it's your first.

[wolfking]

Fuck yeah!!!!!! 



I took a punt with BFMV but thought that particular song might have paid off, and it did.

I am really pleased that I was able to win based on sending as much new stuff to Brent as I could.  It presented a challenge and I spent quite a lot of time on going through music and I'm happy it paid off.

Great work Brent, even with your vast amount of musical knowledge, I hope there's some stuff we have all sent that you care to discover further.  And based on some of the other submissions mate, you've got some holes that need filling also.

Had a blast once again and was great to play with such great people all round.  Good stuff.

PS.  I did have a real chuckle at Dio and Avantasia too.  nice work boys.

[bl5150]

Great work Brent, even with your vast amount of musical knowledge, I hope there's some stuff we have all sent that you care to discover further.  And based on some of the other submissions mate, you've got some holes that need filling also.

Not too many..........your turn to have your holes filled shortly 

FWIW the artists submitted this round where I already own a fair swag............


Avantasia
Dio
Malpractice
Phantoms Opera
Gamma Ray
Whitecross
Leverage
Driver


A number of the others I had come across in my travels but you can only sample so much and that's where having an informed choice can produce a much better result than my random sampling.  The collective musical knowledge in here was very impressive.

[wolfking]

Not too many..........your turn to have your holes filled shortly 

Probably not gonna do it that way mate.  All completely new stuff for me.

[bl5150]

Damn, that is as close a final as I think I've ever seen. Everything is between 17.25 and 17.75. But congrats to Kade once again! You're on a roll dude.

Thanks for having me Brent, this was a lot of fun - one of the best roulettes I've participated in. Just scouring the depths of my collection looking for gems and rediscovering things I'd completely forgotten about was great. Very smoothly run aswell, especially given the size of this roulette and that it's your first.

Thanks David - the way things are travelling are you likely to be next up after the current group?

[wolfking]

I'll be in Dave's for sure.

[Bolsters]

Thanks David - the way things are travelling are you likely to be next up after the current group?

I'm going to hold off until after Christmas, so one or two people will likely be going ahead of me.

[wolfking]

That won't be me unfortunately.

[Evermind]

Fuck!!!!!!

FTFM

I really want to say WTF at someone sending Dio, but I sent Avantasia, so yeah... in the end even that  wasn't enough to win in this fine competition. Thank you Brent for running this, I had a blast playing, and congrats Kade once again, it's like you're winning every roulette nowadays.

[wolfking]

Remember peoples, I can't win my own. 

[jjrock88]

awesome job with this one.

Wolf is the Roulette Wizard!

[Big Hath]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




congrats again, wolfy!