Author Topic: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?  (Read 100305 times)

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Offline goo-goo

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #315 on: September 24, 2015, 05:37:06 PM »
Mike's OCD was great for us fans. I wonder because his life was DT and in the end, he was burnt out.

I still think MP could have delegated responsibilities. Not sure why he felt that if he didn't do it, then it was going to be wrong. But JLB's and MP's relationship was definitely strained and here is where I think a break and sorting issues would have helped (not a 5 yr hiatus though).

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #316 on: September 24, 2015, 05:42:33 PM »
I think Mike spread himself too thin with side projects.  It's like, the feeling of sex with someone new.  All of a sudden, the wife, DT in this instant gets put on the back burner.

I miss Mike no doubt but I do look at it as mostly his problems. , not the rest of the band.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline pcs90

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #317 on: September 24, 2015, 06:05:47 PM »
But really, they could put out the demos, early versions or "Making Of releases" forADoTE and the s/t, but they haven't bothered to do that either.
I'd be very curious to hear those, personally. I think a lot of people would. What I'd really like to hear would be all the improvised jams from the drummer auditions, although I doubt those will ever be released sadly...

Offline ToT-147

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #318 on: September 24, 2015, 06:16:04 PM »
Breaking news: according to many comments above none of this would exist:


-The Spirit Carries On's Documentary

-ADToE's snippets

-Q&A (wasn't this communication with the fan base?)
 
-Happy Holidays

-Two damn 3 hours DVD/Blu-Ray!!!

-Live versions: Metropolis pt 1 extended, the LTE/KC night, JP's solos, JR's solos, MM's solos (one of them in the middle of EM), Trial of Tears' improv, Awake and SFaM's birthdays, the resurrected songs.. And having into account that they supposedly had given up doing this kind of stuff..

And this is only what I can remember or what I know.. All this, when a 'regular' band (or 'one of those bands', whatever that really means) would've done the records (none of them so long btw), the tours (not an "an evening with" btw) and maybe some social network 'interaction' and that's it..



Five Ten years later, yes, Portnoy was right: everything is never enough..
UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRKNqEH1rxo (Videoclip from Second album)

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #319 on: September 24, 2015, 06:44:21 PM »
 :metal

Offline ToT-147

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #320 on: September 24, 2015, 07:11:22 PM »
 :tup

And that's also funny because I thought to quote you at first but then I completely forgot it..

I like them just as much if not more than I did five years ago.

FTFM.. Yeah, I love them more today than then.. Mostly due to both shows I went in this period (2012's LaLP and 2014's Mandarine Park -open air-, the latter being the best show of my life until now), but also for the two great albums they've done.. Much more good than I was expecting..

UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRKNqEH1rxo (Videoclip from Second album)

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #321 on: September 24, 2015, 07:26:20 PM »
Each time I've seen DT since 2000, it has been a great show but the last 3 times I've seen them have exceeded expectations.  They were tighter, had better production, and clearly were enjoying themselves more.  It was infectious. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #322 on: September 24, 2015, 07:43:57 PM »
I think hef pretty much nailed it, but at this point it just looks like some will never let us forget that the band once said they would do everything Portnoy did, like they swore under oath or something. :lol :lol

In other words: Mike Portnoy is gone.  The band is not going to do every little thing he did.  Get over it. :biggrin:

Offline ToT-147

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #323 on: September 24, 2015, 07:52:32 PM »
I didn't know they said such a thing.. Someone has the link to that interview?..
UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRKNqEH1rxo (Videoclip from Second album)

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #324 on: September 24, 2015, 07:59:42 PM »
Why?  You don't believe Kev?  I will second what Kev said and..   

Why can't anyone surf the Web themselves?   :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #325 on: September 24, 2015, 08:10:53 PM »
 ;D  Sorry, I tried and failed.. What I supposed to write in the search engine?.. :justjen
UTÓPICA 'Symphonic Progressive Metal' band - First album's now out
iTunes goo.gl/z5kl9d Amazon goo.gl/bWTwMF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRKNqEH1rxo (Videoclip from Second album)

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #326 on: September 24, 2015, 08:23:07 PM »
 :lol

Well, they did. Kev is right but they are taking a different tact with this album and it interests me.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #327 on: September 24, 2015, 08:49:22 PM »
I didn't know they said such a thing.. Someone has the link to that interview?..

There were a couple interviews and I think JP might have even responded directly on his message board. 

I wouldn't know where to look for the interviews now but from memory I think JP just said something about dividing up the responsibilities between band members.  Also, Jordan responded when asked by an interview, "It's not rocket science."  I remember people getting upset by his comment, as if he was trying to minimize MP cutting himself wide open so we could watch him bleed. 

Basically, the band was pretty vague but alluded to them taking over what MP did.  As Kev said, it's not like they swore under oath.  Also, they never said "We are going to every single things MP did."  In fact, they kind of tried to brush it off.  When asked about cover albums they (don't remember which member) said, "Well thats was Mike's thing so I don't know when we will do that again."  Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement for continuing with that gimmick. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #328 on: September 24, 2015, 08:59:47 PM »


I wouldn't know where to look for the interviews now but from memory I think JP just said something about dividing up the responsibilities between band members.  Also, Jordan responded when asked by an interview, "It's not rocket science."  I remember people getting upset by his comment, as if he was trying to minimize MP cutting himself wide open so we could watch him bleed. 
   

Okay, that legitimately made me laugh out loud. :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #329 on: September 24, 2015, 11:30:16 PM »
I still think MP could have delegated responsibilities. Not sure why he felt that if he didn't do it, then it was going to be wrong. But JLB's and MP's relationship was definitely strained and here is where I think a break and sorting issues would have helped (not a 5 yr hiatus though).
Good points - honestly, I wish he would've delegated some of those responsibilities. The funny thing is, with the million different bands he's been involved with since then, he hasn't taken on a similar role in any of them. I wonder why - did he learn from his DT experience or is there another reason. Definitely something I hope to ask him next time I see him (which probably won't be for some time).
 
 
But really, they could put out the demos, early versions or "Making Of releases" forADoTE and the s/t, but they haven't bothered to do that either.
I'd be very curious to hear those, personally. I think a lot of people would. What I'd really like to hear would be all the improvised jams from the drummer auditions, although I doubt those will ever be released sadly...
You know, I completely forgot about all the other footage left on the cutting room floor from the drummer auditions, but yeah, I'd love to hear/see all that stuff too. I'm guessing part of the reason is trying to get the OKs from the other drummers, but quite frankly, I'd bet part of the reason is because of some of the awesome things that happened with the other drummers that would make the fans second guess Mangini as being the best choice.
 
 
Breaking news: according to many comments above none of this would exist:
Good point - there have been some things, but by and large nowhere near as much as what DT did while MP was in the band.


I think JP just said something about dividing up the responsibilities between band members.  Also, Jordan responded when asked by an interview, "It's not rocket science."  I remember people getting upset by his comment, as if he was trying to minimize MP cutting himself wide open so we could watch him bleed. 
Cute post.   :P  But honestly, when JR made that comment, it really does sound like he's poo-poo'ing all that MP did for the band, as if it won't take much effort to continue doing it. Seeing as they're only doing a fraction of it now, maybe it's more rocket science than they care to admit!   :-*
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline ariich

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #330 on: September 25, 2015, 02:06:16 AM »
Yeah, it sure looks like MP was full of exciting ideas and the rest, wel....sort of went along with it because, well, Mike, really. Once he was gone, no one seems too eager to 'step up' and go the extra mile for the fans.

It sort of makes DT just 'one of those bands'  now for me.

Sadly, this for me too.
Yeah, same. I still love the guys, but I feel fairly confident that I wouldn't have bothered getting into the DTF community (back in the DT.net days of course) if the band then had been like they are now in terms of all that extra-curricular stuff. Other than for a short period, I never really thought they were especially special in terms of the music, it was all the other stuff that made them stand out. Now they're just a really great band but that's it.

But that's fine, all that extra stuff obviously don't come too naturally to them and the music is still strong so it doesn't bother me at all.

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Offline Enalya

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #331 on: September 25, 2015, 02:27:09 AM »
Okay, I agree with many comments (especially hefdaddy's), but there's a certain view I miss here. It's irrelevant what we all like/dislike, what we all want/not want and what we all think what makes a band special. In my opinion, it's about their views and feelings and how they want the band to be. I like to see a reflection of who and what they are in what I see on the outside. It's the healthiest for them, the music and automatically the fanbase. It would look fake and strained (macaroni) if they try really hard to do what MP did, since it's apparently not their thing. And really, everything is fine when they're happy. It's all about the music in the end.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #332 on: September 25, 2015, 07:04:06 AM »
If they'd rotate the setlists as in the old days (which I know you bemoan later in your post), then they'd have something more to put out there for the fans.

 ???

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #333 on: September 25, 2015, 08:52:32 AM »
It certainly doesn't have to be all or nothing.  I have no idea why anyone would think that.  It's really immature.

And

Quote
In the end, its all opinions, and there is no right or wrong.  But a lot of the "drawing lines" crap is ridiculous.

You're quoting me, but I don't understand who you're talking to.   I do understand those factual points, and will be the first to say "take what you like and disregard what you don't".  I am in full agreement that some of this is immature, and that we don't have to "draw lines" (that was exactly my point), but many fans are.  The evidence is right here in this thread.  I don't know how many times I've had to write the same post as Orbert (we are in perfect lock step with regards to the band).   I'm not sure I agree they are "firing on all cylinders" (that implies the highest level of output; I tend to view them more as on "cruise control" at this point) but that's a nit. 

It's not better, it's not worse, it's just different.  It just so happens that the difference doesn't work quite as well for me (though that's not at all to say it doesn't work at all).   That should be okay, in the same way that Sabbath with Dio was different than Sabbath with Ozzy. Or Kiss with makeup was different than Kiss without.

Offline Sub Luna Vitrea

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #334 on: September 25, 2015, 12:42:33 PM »
I am not sure taking a break would have really helped the band much, and I think the effect of Portnoy's presence or absence is largely overstated. The truth is that they're a pretty old band. They're really not expected to be making good albums anymore. That's why A Dramatic Turn of Events was so exceptional. I was not expecting them to make something that good, and was very pleasantly surprised by it. The fact that S/T ended up being just as unremarkable as all of their albums after Train of Thought but prior to Portnoy's departure was disappointing, but it really shouldn't be. Anything good that they produce at this point is way more than I would ever expect.

In four years it will be the 20th anniversary of Scenes From A Memory. Three amazing albums is a lot for one band. Many bands only have a single good song. So, changing setlists every show? If you're pushing 50 and you're making money by going up on stage with a guitar, you should get a medal just for that.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2015, 01:05:37 PM by Sub Luna Vitrea »

Offline TAC

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #335 on: September 25, 2015, 01:01:36 PM »
Good points - honestly, I wish he would've delegated some of those responsibilities. The funny thing is, with the million different bands he's been involved with since then, he hasn't taken on a similar role in any of them. I wonder why - did he learn from his DT experience or is there another reason. Definitely something I hope to ask him next time I see him (which probably won't be for some time).

I think the biggest difference is that DT was "his baby", whereas everything he's doing now are basically collaborations. He had a vision for what DT was going to be, and how things would work, and it seems that when things started tipping a balance against him, he decided to call the time out.
The fact of the matter is that while I truly believe MP puts everything he has into whatever he does, he is nowhere near as truly invested as he was with DT.



You know, I completely forgot about all the other footage left on the cutting room floor from the drummer auditions, but yeah, I'd love to hear/see all that stuff too. I'm guessing part of the reason is trying to get the OKs from the other drummers, but quite frankly, I'd bet part of the reason is because of some of the awesome things that happened with the other drummers that would make the fans second guess Mangini as being the best choice.

I would expect, and am frankly disappointed that we have not gotten the Mangini Audition released in some form.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #336 on: September 25, 2015, 01:21:11 PM »
If they'd rotate the setlists as in the old days (which I know you bemoan later in your post), then they'd have something more to put out there for the fans.

 ???

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.
Not sure what the confusion is - my comment about you bemoaning the rotated setlists is in reference to what you quoted in bold-face type. Or are you happy with the static setlists and I misunderstood? Either way, my point is: if the band rotated their setlists like they had on past tours, there would be shows they could release on Ytsejam Records.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline TAC

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #337 on: September 25, 2015, 01:26:45 PM »
Either way, my point is: if the band rotated their setlists like they had on past tours, there would be shows they could release on Ytsejam Records.

Scott, I'm with you completely on the rotating setlists, BUT, There have been plenty they could release as a Ytsejam release, be it from the 2011 summer tour, or even this past summer's tour.

Actually that's not "plenty" :lol but there is material.

After the 2013 Happy Holidays release, is it out of line to hope for one of these 30th Anniversary could be released as a download this Christmas?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #338 on: September 25, 2015, 01:31:36 PM »
After the 2013 Happy Holidays release, is it out of line to hope for one of these 30th Anniversary could be released as a download this Christmas?
That thought had definitely crossed my mind more than once. Guess we'll have to wait until December to find out!
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline pcs90

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #339 on: September 25, 2015, 01:32:51 PM »
I would expect, and am frankly disappointed that we have not gotten the Mangini Audition released in some form.
Well, basically the full improvised jam is out there at least.

Offline TAC

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #340 on: September 25, 2015, 01:42:06 PM »
I would expect, and am frankly disappointed that we have not gotten the Mangini Audition released in some form.
Well, basically the full improvised jam is out there at least.
Where?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #341 on: September 25, 2015, 01:43:55 PM »
If they'd rotate the setlists as in the old days (which I know you bemoan later in your post), then they'd have something more to put out there for the fans.

 ???

What I miss is the variation of setlists, and the non-playing to backing tracks, which would occasionally result in variations/improvisations of songs, or extended instrumental breaks, or other off-the-cuff nonsense.  That appears to be gone, and for me, is the biggest thing I miss from MP's time in the band.
Not sure what the confusion is - my comment about you bemoaning the rotated setlists is in reference to what you quoted in bold-face type. Or are you happy with the static setlists and I misunderstood? Either way, my point is: if the band rotated their setlists like they had on past tours, there would be shows they could release on Ytsejam Records.
Never mind, confusion on MY part.  We are in agreement on this.

After the 2013 Happy Holidays release, is it out of line to hope for one of these 30th Anniversary could be released as a download this Christmas?
If they really just finished recording, and still have mixing, mastering, artwork, production, and promotion to go, I would actually be shocked if they also found time to prepare a release like that by Christmas.

But it would be awesome if it happened.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline TAC

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #342 on: September 25, 2015, 01:47:36 PM »
After the 2013 Happy Holidays release, is it out of line to hope for one of these 30th Anniversary could be released as a download this Christmas?
If they really just finished recording, and still have mixing, mastering, artwork, production, and promotion to go, I would actually be shocked if they also found time to prepare a release like that by Christmas.

But it would be awesome if it happened.

MP would get it done!

:neverusethis:
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pcs90

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #343 on: September 25, 2015, 01:54:12 PM »
Where?
Here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZ-go2CXqo
There are some interview clips mixed in occasionally but like 90% of it is there.

Offline TAC

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #344 on: September 25, 2015, 01:56:30 PM »
Where?
Here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZ-go2CXqo
There are some interview clips mixed in occasionally but like 90% of it is there.

Oh OK. Thank you. Not sure how I missed this.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #345 on: September 25, 2015, 02:05:17 PM »
After the 2013 Happy Holidays release, is it out of line to hope for one of these 30th Anniversary could be released as a download this Christmas?
If they really just finished recording, and still have mixing, mastering, artwork, production, and promotion to go, I would actually be shocked if they also found time to prepare a release like that by Christmas.

But it would be awesome if it happened.

MP would get it done!

:neverusethis:
Dammit
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #346 on: September 25, 2015, 02:57:14 PM »

I think JP just said something about dividing up the responsibilities between band members.  Also, Jordan responded when asked by an interview, "It's not rocket science."  I remember people getting upset by his comment, as if he was trying to minimize MP cutting himself wide open so we could watch him bleed. 
Cute post.   :P

Thanks.  Glad you've taken care of your anger problem even if it has moved to casual flirtation.  Flattering really. 


 But honestly, when JR made that comment, it really does sound like he's poo-poo'ing all that MP did for the band, as if it won't take much effort to continue doing it. Seeing as they're only doing a fraction of it now, maybe it's more rocket science than they care to admit!   :-*

Yeah, it's only a fraction but what fraction? As ToT indicated in the list he drew up, I would say maybe four-fifths.  Not too shabby. 

Calvin6s

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #347 on: September 25, 2015, 08:52:18 PM »
Here you go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZ-go2CXqo
There are some interview clips mixed in occasionally but like 90% of it is there.
Thanks.  So many ways to get information, that the stuff that is honestly worth the time slips right on by.

Calvin6s

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #348 on: September 25, 2015, 09:01:43 PM »
Delegating is tougher than people think.  If you have a very high standard, you are more than likely going to be very upset with the delegated output.  The worst is when you delegate something recurring and the person acts like they need to be given the task anew every repeat instead of just having the responsibility to set some type of reminder (or just get used to it being their responsibility).

And delegating to an equal and not a *minion*  :blush is near impossible.  Different is ok ... as long as the results still occur.  Different as in inferior ... ugh.  It isn't just about OCD and having impossible standards being the problem.

Judging by the post MP output, I don't doubt this was part of the problem.  And I see no reason why it should fall on JP.  Let the dude concentrate on the music creation/production as it would clearly all fall apart without him.

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: 5 years later, was Portnoy right?
« Reply #349 on: September 26, 2015, 01:58:21 AM »
I can't remember if I posted in this thread or not. Anyways.

MP was onto something. While DT put out a great album (ADTOE) and a mediocre one (DT12), overall the band needs to let back. Their style seems to be getting stale and irrelevant. On DT12, they showed they can still write good songs; however, it's like they force every song to be prog metal or some derivative. It's starting to become boring.

Maybe not even a break. Just choose to write whatever and not stick to "prog metal only". They did that pretty well on ADTOE.

I get that it's what they are known for, but that doesn't mean they have to stay there. Do a more rock and roll album. Or some sort of jazz fusion thing whatever. Electronic rock?! I took some nyquil so I'm getting drowsy.

DT have talent, they can write songs, but it seems obvious to me at least that they limit themselves or put themselves into a box. They can do whatever they want at this point in their careers.

Although don't do scream vocals. DT cannot pull that off with Labrie.

Whenever the next DT album comes out, I'll listen and hope for a change and not more recycling. Not trying to hate, but when 3 of the last 4 albums have been major duds, you want a change. I still respect them.