Author Topic: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?  (Read 2791 times)

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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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I looked it up on Discogs & allegedly, the category # for Lie is PRCD 5812, the Cat# for Caught In A Web is PRCD 5966 & the Cat# for The Silent Man is PRCD 9117-2. Does anyone know how we can track these numbers to a release date somehow? We know most of them are probably from September-December 1994, but it's pretty intriguing how there isn't any exact information about this (or at least none that I could find).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 01:30:56 AM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2015, 07:48:10 AM »
I know they were in 1994.  But that's all I know.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2015, 11:23:44 PM »
Update: I just found DT's Billboard Mainstream Rock chart history & Lie entered the chart on October 1, 1994, & since Billboard releases their charts for the week following for some reason, we know now that the latest Lie could've been released is September 24, 1994. Given how Pull Me Under entered the chart a mere 2 weeks following its release, I think that means we can safely say that Lie was released sometime in September.

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE.

In the bottom-right-hand corner of the cover art for Lie, we can see a banner that reads "FIRST EVER UK SINGLE!". Considering that it probably doesn't mean it was the first single ever to be released in the UK, this could mean either one of two things: either none of the WD&DU or I&W singles were released in the UK, or Lie was only the first single to be released from Awake in the UK, not the US. Another trip to Discogs tells us that although PMU & TTT were only released in the US, Another Day did actually make its way over to the UK.

Simple mistake? Or did DT release more than one single from Awake before the album release? YOU DECIDE!

Update 2: From what we know, Dream Theater has never released a single or an album on a weekend (in fact, all their albums except WD&DU & LATM have been released on Tuesdays). That definitely narrows our options down. :biggrin:
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 11:59:10 PM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Offline ProgressiveIce

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 01:08:33 AM »
The Another Day release is from continental Europe (manufactured in Germany, sold at least in Germany and France), not from the UK. Perhaps it was also (unofficially) sold in the UK, but from what I know, Lie is the first single to be officially released in the UK.

Were there any official releases of these singles in the US? I've only ever heard about the promos. (The cat. nos. you mentioned are also from the promos.)

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 02:58:09 AM »
The Another Day release is from continental Europe (manufactured in Germany, sold at least in Germany and France), not from the UK. Perhaps it was also (unofficially) sold in the UK, but from what I know, Lie is the first single to be officially released in the UK.

Well that would explain it then. Strange how I could the two mixed up though, you'd think it would seem obvious... Anyway...

Were there any official releases of these singles in the US? I've only ever heard about the promos. (The cat. nos. you mentioned are also from the promos.)

The Discogs page only mentions promos for US releases & only a proper single release for Lie in the UK & Germany, which was the only single they had released outside of the US for Awake.

I didn't think that that would've been the case though because
1) All three singles have cover art, & to my knowledge, I don't think it's that common for promotional singles to have cover art since they aren't for commercial sale (though I may be wrong, I often don't really care which of the songs are released as singles apart from cases like these).
2) Videos were released for both Lie & The Silent Man. I know promotional singles have had music videos before, but I've only really seen that for albums with a lot of singles already released & it wouldn't seem smart to spend so much money on a single that wasn't for commercial sale, only released in the US.
3) The single for TSM had a previously unreleased B-Side (Eve).
Idk, it may be true that commercial singles weren't released for Lie outside of the UK & Germany, CIAW or TSM, but something about it just doesn't seem to add up for me.  :-\

EDIT: I just realised this right after posting this, but TSM also had an official release in Europe...  :\
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Offline seasonsinthesky

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 07:53:52 AM »
From what we know, Dream Theater has never released a single or an album on a weekend (in fact, all their albums except WD&DU & LATM have been released on Tuesdays). That definitely narrows our options down. :biggrin:

I have nothing to offer for narrowing the release dates of these singles, but Tuesday has been US release day for all music for several decades now. It's only recently that major artists are leaving this behind in the download age.

There are also different "traditional release days" for different countries. I believe the UK one is Monday or Friday, can't remember.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 01:52:10 PM »
Can't help you out with the release dates of the singles, altho if memory serves me correctly, September was the month that Lie was released to radio stations. As to the exact date, I do not know.

I didn't think that that would've been the case though because
1) All three singles have cover art, & to my knowledge, I don't think it's that common for promotional singles to have cover art since they aren't for commercial sale (though I may be wrong, I often don't really care which of the songs are released as singles apart from cases like these).
While it is not common, especially these days, back then it wasn't completely uncommon for promo CD singles to have cover art. I've since sold them off, but I had promo CD singles for Pull Me Under, Take the Time, Lie and Caught in a Web that all had cover art. And I know there were promo CD singles for The Silent Man and Hollow Years that also had artwork, altho it was the same artwork used for the commercially sold CD singles.

You can see a pretty comprehensive list (altho all in French) here:
https://ymfr.free.fr/index.php?title=Promo_%28audio%29
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Offline twanky

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 02:12:10 PM »
Another Day was released in the US as a cassette ATCO Records ‎ 4-98415
The Silent Man  EastWest   7567-95812-2 in Europe
Lie     EastWest   7567-95835-2, A5835CD
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Does anyone know release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 03:16:54 PM »
From what we know, Dream Theater has never released a single or an album on a weekend (in fact, all their albums except WD&DU & LATM have been released on Tuesdays). That definitely narrows our options down. :biggrin:

I have nothing to offer for narrowing the release dates of these singles, but Tuesday has been US release day for all music for several decades now. It's only recently that major artists are leaving this behind in the download age.

There are also different "traditional release days" for different countries. I believe the UK one is Monday or Friday, can't remember.

I looked up the release dates for the early Yes discography. If that's anything to go by, the traditional release day in the UK is Friday.

So if the UK release day IS Friday, Lie was most likely released either September 2nd, 9th, 16th or 23rd in the UK (given it first arrived on the Billboard Mainstream Rock charts on October 1st & Billboard publishes their lists for the week following) & either September 6th, 13th or 20th for the promotional release in the US. Now we're getting somewhere
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 06:09:28 PM »
Update 3: After a little re-reading of the thread, I think I can say that since Pull Me Under arrived on the charts 3 weeks after being released (or considering Billboard releases their lists for the week following, only 2 weeks), that Lie (charting 4 times lower & spending about 1/7 of the time PMU did on the charts) would most likely enter at a much slower speed, so I think it's obvious that we can rule out September 20th for the US release, as that would say that Lie entered the charts a mere 5 days after being released: around 1/3 of the time PMU took. September 13th is more likely, but that would still say that Lie entered the charts faster than PMU (12 days vs 14), which doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me. What I think this means is that either Lie's US release was on September 6th, or it was released in late August (which may not be all that surprising since PMU was also released late August). However, both the Wikipedia page & one of the replies to this thread steer more towards a September release, so I think we can still say that Lie's US release was on September 6th, 1994.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2015, 07:35:19 PM »
so I think it's obvious that we can rule out September 20th for the US release, as that would say that Lie entered the charts a mere 5 days after being released: around 1/3 of the time PMU took. September 13th is more likely, but that would still say that Lie entered the charts faster than PMU (12 days vs 14), which doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me.
I understand your reasoning, and it could be correct, but let's not forget that when IaW came out, there was almost no audience for their music. That radio hooked on to PMU at all is a miracle. But having toured the world extensively in 92-93, by the time they released Awake, there was an audience waiting for the new album. So there would have been much more of a push by the label to get Lie on the radio. Did Lie get into the charts faster than PMU? Hard to say, but there's just as much reason to believe it did, as to believe it did not.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 08:14:23 PM »
so I think it's obvious that we can rule out September 20th for the US release, as that would say that Lie entered the charts a mere 5 days after being released: around 1/3 of the time PMU took. September 13th is more likely, but that would still say that Lie entered the charts faster than PMU (12 days vs 14), which doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense to me.
I understand your reasoning, and it could be correct, but let's not forget that when IaW came out, there was almost no audience for their music. That radio hooked on to PMU at all is a miracle. But having toured the world extensively in 92-93, by the time they released Awake, there was an audience waiting for the new album. So there would have been much more of a push by the label to get Lie on the radio. Did Lie get into the charts faster than PMU? Hard to say, but there's just as much reason to believe it did, as to believe it did not.

I still think getting to the MSRC (Mainstream Rock Charts) in 5 days is a bit of a stretch, but I think being on-par with PMU could still be a possibility with this in mind.

However, I actually messed up on the date both songs entered the chart. What I though was the case was that viewing DT's MSRC history would take me to the weeks that the songs peaked (which they do), & the "weeks on chart" number was how many weeks they had been on the chart at that time (which it doesn't). So Lie & PMU may have entered the charts later than I said they did. Of course I could check the charts manually, but on Billboard's website, it only shows the top 20 (out of 40) of the MSRC, so I can't check where Lie would've been, as it peaked at #38.

If anyone knows how or where to view the other half of these charts at this time, that would be extremely helpful, but until then, we're pretty much back to square one  :-[
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Offline krands85

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2015, 04:12:56 AM »
Lifting Shadows says Lie was released "at the end of September" and the Wikipedia page for Awake says 'late September'.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 04:23:32 AM »
Lifting Shadows says Lie was released "at the end of September" and the Wikipedia page for Awake says 'late September'.
Was this for the US promo or the UK/Germany CD single?
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Offline krands85

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2015, 07:23:47 AM »
It didn't specify, sorry. But I did find something that might be useful for you:
https://www.dreamt.org/ytsejamarchives/1/ytsejam.491 - if you scroll down there to topic 14, there's a message titled "got the LIE promo cd!!!" and it's dated 19th August 1994. There's more discussion about the single/promo throughout the archives - if you change the number at the end of the URL, you can see earlier or later discussions (i.e change it from 491 to 490 to see one archive earlier, or 492 to see one archive later and so on).

But it looks like the promo was out there at least in August, so I presume the mention of late September is for the official single release?
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2015, 03:58:23 PM »
It didn't specify, sorry. But I did find something that might be useful for you:
https://www.dreamt.org/ytsejamarchives/1/ytsejam.491 - if you scroll down there to topic 14, there's a message titled "got the LIE promo cd!!!" and it's dated 19th August 1994. There's more discussion about the single/promo throughout the archives - if you change the number at the end of the URL, you can see earlier or later discussions (i.e change it from 491 to 490 to see one archive earlier, or 492 to see one archive later and so on).

But it looks like the promo was out there at least in August, so I presume the mention of late September is for the official single release?

Great find, I searched back a few archives & I found some more evidence:

Quote from: https://www.dreamt.org/ytsejamarchives/1/ytsejam.483 on August 10, 1994
The news came from DT themselves... from their front office. Haven't you wondered why we keep getting all this earaly info and songs like Lie before they get released? :) It's thanks to THEM! hehe

Quote from: https://www.dreamt.org/ytsejamarchives/1/ytsejam.488 on August 16, 1994
They just played 'LIE' on the radio here.  They even admitted that they weren't supposed to be doing it!!  They featured it on something called 'Smash or Trash', which is a deal where you call in and vote on  if the song is a smash or if it should be trashed.

The song was a 'smash' by a 9 to 1 vote.  It sounded awesome on the radio. Can't wait to hear more.  I called the station and after voting I asked them if they knew about Kevin leaving and they already did somehow.  They didn't even know who was producing the album or what it was called though.  Kinda weird.

Later!

So now we know Lie was released between the dates of August 10 & August 16, 1994. If the traditional US release date for music is Tuesday like seasonsinthesky said, the only Tuesday between these dates is [& thus, the US promo for Lie was most likely released on] August 16, 1994.
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Offline ytserush

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Re: Can anyone help us find the release dates for the Awake singles?
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2015, 08:32:15 AM »
Coming into this late. I don't have exact dates if these singles either but there seems to be some logical and reasonable discussion on this.

That link isn't working for me for some reason, but lead singles traditionally come out about six weeks before the album release so Awake was October 4, right? So late August wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. (I remember going on vacation around that time and I took the Lie promo digipak with me)

I have that issue of Record Collector from 2000 but I can't recall if they mention release dates for the Dream Theater items listed.

One could guess (I had no idea myself that Dream Theater was releasing another album until I stumbled on Images And Words at a record show. I think I may have picked up the Pull Me Under promo the same day) that Pull Me Under came out about six weeks before July 7, 1992.