Author Topic: The Savatage Discography - Result and cause...  (Read 37357 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #210 on: September 29, 2015, 09:13:30 AM »
Everyone always looks at me with a third eye when I say that my favorite rocker is Strange Reality.   :metal :metal :metal   That is usually the song I include on my Savatage mix discs.   

THAAAAAAAAAAAAAT COULD BE MEEEEEE!!!!!  OOOHHHHH  YEAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!
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Offline Podaar

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #211 on: September 29, 2015, 09:29:05 AM »
"Strange Reality" is awesome.

THAAAAAAAAAAAAAT COULD BE MEEEEEE!!!!!  OOOHHHHH  YEAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!

Fuck-yeah.  :metal
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #212 on: September 29, 2015, 09:54:32 AM »
  Other then "Jesus Saves" and "Believe", there are few songs on there that stand out at first glance.  Like many concept albums, it is definitely a case of the whole being greater then the sum of the parts

I generally dislike concept albums for that very reason - I want the songs to stand on their own for the most part.  And in the case of Streets, although not quite as popular with me as Gutter Ballet and HOTMK , I think most of the songs stand up well.

I would like songs like Ghost In The Ruins for instance whether it was part of a concept or not.

I tend to listen to whole albums so I don't mind if they stand alone at all. I love Streets. It may be my favourite Sava album, up there with GB, but anyway its a great album. Great guitar sound, and Criss is all over this album, ballad heavy as it may be. Its a shame we won't get the full vision, with stage show to match. I would love to see Savatage do an Operation livecrime with it.

Great work again Dark MAster, especially with how the demos fit etc.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #213 on: September 29, 2015, 02:56:35 PM »
Did anyone pick up the re-released version from a couple of years ago with the narration?  Interesting compared to the original.  Feels bloody weird though having DT Jesus instead of Jesus Saves.
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Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #214 on: September 29, 2015, 02:59:56 PM »
Did anyone pick up the re-released version from a couple of years ago with the narration?  Interesting compared to the original.  Feels bloody weird though having DT Jesus instead of Jesus Saves.

Haven't listened to the whole thing, just the new tracks. Waiting for the TSO Gutter Ballet though.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #215 on: September 29, 2015, 03:40:15 PM »
Did anyone pick up the re-released version from a couple of years ago with the narration?  Interesting compared to the original.  Feels bloody weird though having DT Jesus instead of Jesus Saves.

Haven't listened to the whole thing, just the new tracks. Waiting for the TSO Gutter Ballet though.

Oh is this the original broadway version or something?
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #216 on: September 29, 2015, 05:05:38 PM »

I tend to listen to whole albums so I don't mind if they stand alone at all.

I do too - but if I am not enjoying the songs as individual pieces of music I don't appear to have the ability to look at an album as one big song .....short attention span , which explains my lack of tolerance for long meandering proggy sections in songs.    Albums like Streets, Crimson Idol, Mindcrime are perfect for me as all the songs stand up outside of the concept.  And in these cases I feel the concept adds to the songs.

SFAM for example is one where I feel like the lyrics/concept are being shoe horned into (and affecting the quality of) the songs and I really have no interest in waiting out a number of songs that aren't grabbing me in the name of a bigger concept.     Just me  :angel:
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Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #217 on: September 29, 2015, 08:23:22 PM »
First, great write up.  As much as I love Savatage, I've never taken it that deep.  So definitely lots to learn.  I missed some of the earlier write ups.  One thing I always wondered about is if Jon and Criss ever had serious brother problems that were more or less kept under wraps or if they just had unflinching support for one another.  They were made to be in a band together.

I've always loved Streets.  HotMK - Gutter Ballet - Streets - Edge of Thorns - Handful of Rain is *my* prime Savatage.  HoR was very surprising considering how much I admire Criss Oliva.

But listening to all the songs again, I really wasn't expecting to land where I did on my song rankings.  Never ranked them before, but forcing yourself can really help you discover what it is you like about an album.

The first surprise is that I could not rank the top 7 (and almost 8).  I have a 7 way tie for first and even though I could probably force myself to choose, it wouldn't hold up even 4 minutes later.  So with that said, the Top 7 #1 songs from Streets:

Most of what I like about these songs is the great guitar chord work.  The staccato syncopation, smooth legato slides, diads that aren't just Perfect 5ths, the tension ... and all within the same rhythm interchanging at all the right moments.  It doesn't sound like somebody playing guitar.  It just sounds like pure music.  Of equal importance, the vocals.  They are almost like the guitar.  Staccato, legato, tension, screams, rough, smooth.  But more importantly, they feel like it is one mind speaking.  They aren't following each other.  They are complementing each other.  Take away or overstate just a bit of one or the other and it all falls apart.  This complementing seems at its peak in Tonight He Grins Again.  There is a literal back and forth in the chorus between the melody line of the voice and guitar that is just mesmerizing.  So for the Top 7, this paragraph more or less applies to each and every song.  That will make the pros/cons less repetitive.

1. Strange Reality:  "That could be me" is so iconic

1. Ghost in the Ruins:  The breakdown solo is right on.  The build up is pure emotion.

1. Tonight He Grins Again:  "Nighttime again.  Seems I'm my only friend"  The lyrics are so vulnerable and desperate.  How are these songs not Top 100 of all time?

1. Streets:  The subtle orchestration (compared to TSO) and choir work are just haunting.

1. Jesus Saves:  Whereas Streets was melancholy, classical orchestration, this one is more like big band metal.  Even though they are not horn stabs, they easily could have been.  The fact that they aren't horn stabs but give that feeling to me is borderline genius.

1. Believe:  I love When the Crowds are Gone, so how am I not gonna love this?

1. Can You Hear Me Now:  The dynamics are quite jaw dropping.

8. Little Too Far:  The first dip in quality, but only compared to the crushing 4 song bonanza.  "Got to get back I never meant to take it this far." Is so haunting. DM mentioned the cheesy lyrics, but I actually love the lyrics.  Then when you consider this song is the rock bottom realization before DT's 2nd act makes it all the more emotional (especially if you accept Jon and DT are sharing the story)

9. If I Go Away:  The harmonized guitar parts are more than effect or embellishment.  It is some of the most necessary harmonized guitar work ever

10. St. Patrick's:  The last song that is "OMG" good before a dramatic drop in quality

11. You're Alive:  This is where the broadway feel starts to get overdone for me.  Everything I love about Criss seems to take a backseat in this song.  In the larger scope, I love that it is short and gets cut off by Sammy and Tex as it implies the comeback was over before it began.  In that context, really great storytelling.  As a stand alone song, it has its moments, but overall nothing classic.

12. Agony and Ecstasy:  The opening guitar line is good and the bridge before the solo is pretty cool.  But everything else is nothing special for me.

13. Sammy and Tex:  I love how it is such an abrupt stop to the comeback and the return of the fall makes the previously low seem gentle in comparison.  And the vocals as a character are great.  But once again, as a standalone song it is actually kind of one dimensional and annoying.

14. New York City Don't Mean Nothing:  I'm a guitarist and I usually don't like strumming acoustic guitar.  No exception here.  But it has a bit of a saving grace in that the 2nd half with the full band almost has an Eleanor Rigby metal feel.  Not enough to pull it out of the bottom of the rankings though.  I can't believe this was the choice for the 2nd video.

15. Somewhere in Time:  The overdone broadway feel again.  I like the mix of broadway that Savatage brings in for this album.  That broadway vibe is why my favorite song on Dream Theater's SFAM is Finally Free.  But there is a thin line crossed where I feel they .... gotta get back gotta get back.  They took the broadway too far.

16. Heal My Soul:  Never liked this song.  And now that I know it is based off a Welsh folk song, I know why.  The background choir is the best part of this song.

Even though the first half destroys the second half, Can You Hear Me Now, Ghost in the Ruins and Believe make the entire album trip worth it.

Was Gutter Ballet really the only official sheet music for this band?  What a shame.  Some day I'm gonna have to dust off the guitar and figure this stuff out.

And out of left field, when I was trying to collect all the Savatage videos in the late 90s, I was thrilled that there was in fact a Strange Reality music video.  I made the VHS tape trade through the mail and this is what showed up:
NSFW T and A fest
Although I was disappointed it wasn't some long lost Savatage gem, I have to wonder if this is partly why I love Strange Reality so much   :blush  The video is just awful, but ....

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #218 on: October 01, 2015, 07:40:42 PM »
Did anyone pick up the re-released version from a couple of years ago with the narration?  Interesting compared to the original.  Feels bloody weird though having DT Jesus instead of Jesus Saves.

Haven't listened to the whole thing, just the new tracks. Waiting for the TSO Gutter Ballet though.

Oh is this the original broadway version or something?

Kinda.  Jon and Paul have said that since they already made Streets, they didn't want to just re-record all the songs again, just Broadway-style.  So much of the music will be original.  That being said, many of the songs will have musical and/or lyrical call-backs to various Savatage songs from the Gutter Ballet, Streets, Edge of Thorns and Handful of Rain albums.  For example, TSO over the past 5 years or so, TSO has been playing a pair of songs from the upcoming Gutter Ballet album called "Someday" and Child Unseen", the latter of which features the familiar solo section of "New York City Don't Mean Nothing".

However, it seem as if that album still has some time before it is released, as both Letters from the Labyrinth and Romanov have been slated for an earlier release.  That puts Gutter Ballet at least 2 albums into the future.  Hopefully, though, since the band are recording everything at once, we won't have to wait another 5 or 6 years after Letter from the Labyrinth before we get Romanov, and then another 5 or 6 years before Gutter Ballet.

Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #219 on: October 01, 2015, 08:01:34 PM »
  wait another 5 or 6 years after Letter from the Labyrinth before we get Romanov, and then another 5 or 6 years before Gutter Ballet.

and then Poets and Pensioners
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #220 on: October 01, 2015, 08:23:25 PM »

Great work again Dark MAster, especially with how the demos fit etc.

Thanks.

As for the placement of the lost tracks, I have varying degrees of confidence in them.

With "Stay", the band has said that it was supposed to follow after "Ghost in the Ruins", so that answers that.

For "Larry Elbows", the song talks about a friend of D.T's, Larry, attempting to get D.T. back on his feet, only for D.T. to fall off the wagon and blow his shot.  The lyrics to "Tonight He Grins Again" actually reference this event ("Once again I've played the clown/ Used my friends and let them down"), as does the story in the booklet of the original release, so it follows that the song takes place before "Tonight He Grins Again".

As for "Desiree"; assuming D.T. is the one singing here, then this song is probably about the otherwise unnamed girlfriend he attempts to call in "If I Go Away", so it probably immediately precedes that song.  While I have heard no word from the band on where either "Larry Elbows" or "Desiree" were intended to be placed, I am fairly confident of my estimates, at least as much as I can be without confirmation from the band themselves.

With "Tonight I Will Be King", "Sanctuary" and "Beyond Broadway", all I have of the Streets versions of those songs are short 20 second clips of the choruses.  Based on those, I can tell that "Sanctuary" and "Beyond Broadway" are lyrically reworked versions of the Gutter Ballet demos "Target" and "Before I Hang", respectively.  Given the lyrics of the originals and the small clips I have, it's difficult to figure out where exactly those songs would fit into the Streets story.  I'm pretty certain "Sanctuary" was supposed to go before "Agony and Ecstasy", the idea being that D.T. has become disillusioned with life (the lyrics of the original "Target" were about much the same topic) and the "Sanctuary" D.T. is seeking might be found by indulging in drugs.  There are a few other places the song could go, depending on how you interpret the lyrics, but I strongly feel the song would most likely have been before "Agony and Ecstasy".

With "Beyond Broadway", I'm somewhat less certain.  The original "Before I Hang" was about a man facing execution reflecting on his past misdeeds.  Assuming the lyrics were changed in the "Beyond Broadway" version so that it was just about D.T. reflecting on his misdeeds, the song could fit toward the end of the album, around "Agony and Ecstasy.  As for "Tonight I Would Be King", I have recently discovered that it is the same song as another rather rare demo from the Streets era "Island of the Kings", with some re-worked lyrics.  The lyrics of the original "Island of the Kings", which were contemplative of how crazy the world can become at times, could still be interpreted as if D.T. was making a resolution, and so "Tonight I Would Be King" would be placed before "I'm Alive". 

Given that, I believe the original tracklist would have looked something like this:

Side A

Streets
Jesus Saves
Larry Elbows
Tonight He Grins Again
Strange Reality

Side B

A Little Too Far
Tonight I Would Be King (aka Island of the Kings)
I'm Alive
Sammy and Tex
St. Patrick's
Can You Hear Me Now?

Side C

New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Ghost In The Ruins
Stay
Desiree

If I Go Away

Side D

Beyond Broadway (aka Before I Hang) *
Sanctuary (aka Target) *
Agony and Ecstasy *
Heal My Soul
Somewhere In Time
Believe

* - I can't decide exactly on the best order for these three tracks.

I should emphasize that, other then "Stay", this is all just speculation on my part.  I have no inside knowledge from the band concerning what the full tracklist of Streets would have been.  These are all just guesses working from the songs and song fragments that I have heard.  If I ever get a chance to have a long talk with Jon or Paul, you can bet the original tracklist of Streets will be a topic of conversation!   ;)

EDIT:  I was correct.   :P  After listening to the album with the various lost tracks in different orders, my opinion of where they would go has changed.  I edited the above tracklist to reflect the order I feel flows the best both musically and lyrically.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 02:58:43 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #221 on: October 04, 2015, 07:20:54 PM »
Edge of Thorns overview on the docket for tomorrow, provided we are finished talking about Streets.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #222 on: October 04, 2015, 07:41:56 PM »
I'm so excited for Edge of Thorns because I have a lot to say about that album.  :metal

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - I never wanted to go, always wanted to stay...
« Reply #223 on: October 05, 2015, 12:14:11 PM »
Edge of Thorns is my favorite!!

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #224 on: October 05, 2015, 06:21:43 PM »
   Part 8 – And so we end the chapter...



Released   April 2, 1993
Genre   Progressive metal, power metal
Length   59:54
Label   Atlantic
Producer   Paul O'Neill
Jon Oliva
Criss Oliva

Tracklist

All songs by Criss Oliva, Jon Oliva and Paul O'Neill

1.   "Edge of Thorns"     5:54
2.   "He Carves His Stone"     4:14
3.   "Lights Out"     3:10
4.   "Skraggy's Tomb"     4:22
5.   "Labyrinths"     1:29
6.   "Follow Me"     5:08
7.   "Exit Music"     3:05
8.   "Degrees of Sanity"     4:36
9.   "Conversation Piece"     4:10
10.   "All That I Bleed"     4:41
11.   "Damien"     3:53
12.   "Miles Away"     5:06
13.   "Sleep"     3:52
14.   "Forever After"     4:20
15.   "Shotgun Innocence"     3:30

Band members

Zachary Stevens – lead vocals
Criss Oliva – guitars
Johnny Lee Middleton – bass guitar
Steve "Doc" Wacholz – drums (electronic drums, studio only)

Additional musicians

Jon Oliva – Piano, Keyboards (studio only), drums on tracks 2 and 8
Andy James - drums (touring only)
Wes Garren - rhythm guitar and keys - (touring only)

   A lead singer change-over is a daunting prospect for any band.  Many who have attempted it have lost significant fractions of their fanbase as their long time followers find the change too difficult to stomach.  There are a select few bands for whom such a risk has paid off (AC/DC, and Iron Maiden, at least the first time), and a few others for whom their new singer at least managed to create their own respected place in the band's history (such as Dio in Black Sabbath, or Sammy in Van Halen).  But for many, introducing a new frontman has proven disastrous.  With each person's voice being unique, a lead singer is something that cannot be easily replaced.  The music is unavoidably effected, and whether it is for the better or the worse, for many fans, the change alone is enough to cause them to feel that their favourite band is no longer quite the same entity as it was before.

   When Savatage wrapped up their Streets tour in 1992, they found themselves in such a position.  After more then a decade of bad habits, Jon Oliva's voice was trashed, and he was forced to step down from the mic or lose his voice forever.  As if the band were not faced with enough concerns, while the world of rock in America underwent a significant paradigm shift, Savatage were now faced with the grim reality of finding a new lead singer, or risk losing valuable momentum at a time when it could not have been worse for them.

   It can be said that in every misfortune, there is opportunity.  For Savatage, the possible benefits of bringing in a new frontman were many.  For one thing, it introduced the possibility of reaching a wider demographic that they had thus far been incapable of satisfying.  Svatage by 1992 was successful enough, but they were still very much a cult band of limited appeal.  Despite the strength of their musicianship and song writting, they remained firmly confined to their own unique little niche, and their reach rarely extended beyond the strongly metal viewership of Headbanger's Ball, to which much of their airplay on MTV was limited.  Even among the Headbanger's Ball crowd, some of the more purist metal fans had become increasingly uncertain about the band's musical direction as Savatage dabbled in classical and rock opera in ever greater amounts on each successive album. 

   Converserly, while Jon Oliva was one of the best singers of his genre, he was very much a metal vocalist, and it can be argued that his voice was one of the main factors that prevented the band from appealing to a more mainstream audience.  Furthermore, bringing on a new vocalist would give the band the possibility for a future expansion of their sound.  For while he was officially “out” of Savatage, Jon Oliva remained very much involved in the band, as a songwriter, a keyboardist, and co-producer.  Once Jon's voice was healed after about a year, Jon had every intention of returning to the band full time.  The band subsequently did not want their new singer to just be a fill in for Jon, but to have his own, unique voice that would compliment Jon's once the Mountain King made his return and Savatage would feature two lead singers.  Streets had shown the band the limits of what they could do with only a single lead vocalist.  To continue on their chosen musical direction, blending metal, classical and Broadway, and perhaps reap wider airplay in the process, the band needed a new frontman.

   The young man chosen to be brought into Savatage was South Carolina-born Zak Stevens, formerly of the Boston based metal act Wykked Wytch, and hand picked by Jon Oliva himself.  While he would later cite Geoff Tate of Queensryche as the man who made him want to be a metal singer, Zak had grown up primarily on blues and country, and these influences were unquestionably apparent in his vocals from the very beginning.  Zak's Southern drawl lent a very distinctive angle to the sound of Savatage.  Given the rising popularity of country music in the American mainstream at the time, the Southern roots of Zak's voice held the possibility of opening up Savatage to new fans.  His smooth, smokey vocals were a far cry from Jon's harsh metal screams, so there would be no worries about their new singer being a mere Oliva clone.  Zak's voice would stand on it's own, and not in the shadow of Jon Oliva, which was precisely what Paul and Savatage had wanted. 

   Musically speaking, the album that became Edge of Thorns is not all that different from the records that had immediately preceded it, Streets and Gutter Ballet.  All of the elements that Savatage had been developing since Hall of the Mountain King are still very much present on Edge of Thorns.  The lack of a rock opera narrative this time perhaps makes the album most similar overall to Gutter Ballet rather then Streets, although there is much of the Streets sound still present on Edge of Thorns.  Of course, this should hardly be surprising given that many of the riffs from the various unused songs that were written during the sessions for Gutter Ballet and Streets were used throughout Edge of Thorns.  The first record with Zak is somewhat more of a straight forward rock affair then Streets was, although it was not a full 180 degree return to the unrepentant metal of Hall of the Mountain King. 

   What would really serve as a distinction between this new Savatage records and what had come before was Zak himself.  With his voice being rather different from Jon's, he would lend an entirely new dimension to the music of Savatage that had never existed before.  Many of the band's influences that had already been present in their music, particularly from the blues and gospel genres, had gone overlooked whilst Jon Oliva had been the singer.  These sides of Savatage would now be brought to the fore thanks to Zak Stevens.  Of course, the converse was true as well.  While Zak was a fine metal singer, he was not one as much as Jon Oliva.  Consequently, the band's metal elements, which had steadily become less and less prominent over the course of their careers, would be in eclipse further still.  This would understandably upset some of the band's more metal fans, although the lack of a rock opera narrative would, to a certain extent, appease such fans who had disliked the inclusion of such concepts within Savatage's music.  However, the downplaying of the band's metal elements would also serve to make the band more palatable to a non-metal crowd, who could now appreciate the sheer genius of their songwriting now that Zak had taken over the mic.

   An ethereally beautiful piano melody opens up the album's first song and title track, quite possibly one of the strongest opening tracks ever placed on a record.  The piano is joined by some awesome power chords before the main riff kicks in and we get our first taste of what exactly Zak Stevens has brought to the Savatage table.  His voice, strong and yet smooth as silk, brings Savatage alive as they had never been before.  The combination of Zak's voice with Jon's piano and Criss' guitar, all built upon the bed of incredible songwriting that the O'Neill/Oliva/Oliva triumvirate have long since perfected, creates a musical landscape that is enchanting beyond words.  Criss Oliva is especially magnificent here, not only treating us to some majestic riffage, but also giving the best solo he ever wrote, his shredding regal and awe-inspiring beyond compare.

   Much as “Hall of the Mountain King” would come to define the band as fronted by Jon Oliva, “Edge of Thorns” would be the signature song of the Zak Stevens era.  Likewise, while the former had been the song to first break the band into a wide MTV audience, the later would finally give Savatage some long awaited radio airplay.   “Edge of Thorns” even managed to crack into the top 40 in the US charts while the video would receive heavy rotation on MTV, even beyond the band's mainstay, Headbanger's Ball.  For the first time, Savatage would experience genuine mainstream interest in the US, catapulted to lofty heights by the success of “Edge of Thorns”.  While “Hall of the Mountain King” still remains the band's signature song, “Edge of Thorns” would hold a special place in the hearts of later day Savatage fans, and would stay in live setlists for the remainder of their career. 

   After the incredible title track, we find a very Streets-esque acoustic melody with Zak singing softly overhead before he ong explodes into an avalanche of heavy riffs.  “He Carves his Stone” is one of the album's heavier tracks and was most likely written with Jon's voice in mind.  Zak proves that he is more then capable of singing the band's metal material on this track, particularly in the fast-paced ride-out, his screams not as high as Jon's, but still piercing and forceful.  This hard rocking attitude carries over to the next track, “Lights Out”.  One of the most straight forward rock songs from the band's 1989-1993 period, “Lights Out” takes the listener on a high-octane all-metal ride, with Criss Oliva leading the way via some rather slick riffage and licks.  Short but sweet, “Lights Out” is all round rock and roll fun, and an often overlooked track on Zak's Savatage debut.  Some cork and drinking sound effects kick off the next song, another very Streets sounding acoustic guitar section setting the mood before Savatage moves back into full metal mode on “Skraggy's Tomb”.  Zak's more soulful influence are apparent here, his vocal work giving the song a very Southern rock grove that otherwise would have been absent had Jon been singing here instead.  Once again, Criss Oliva proves he is a master of the strings as the song shifts between bone-crunching metal and haunting acoustic work before moving back into the metal again. 

   After “Skraggy's Tomb”, we get “Labyrinths”, the first Savatage instrumental since Gutter Ballet's “Silk and Steel”.  The song starts of with some delicate Jon Oliva keyboards before Criss' guitar kicks in, reprising some melodies that are highly reminiscent of “If I Go Away” from Streets.  The song ends with some neo-classical bombast, much like Gutter Ballet's other instrumental “Temptation Revelation” before leading into one of the finest tracks to be found on Edge of Thorns, “Follow Me”.  Bouncing back and forth between soft and gentle balladry and theatrically melodic metal. Zak proves his versatility here, cooing softly over the acoustic guitar while he mournfully roars over the heavier parts.  “Follow Me” gives us some of Savatage's most poignant lyrics to date, as well as the powerful music.  That famous riff that first appeared as the ride-out from the Gutter Ballet demo, “Stranger in the Dark”, and later used in the Streets lost track, “Larry Elbows”, form the basis of the ride-out on “Follow Me”, the whole band firing on all cylinders as the song builds to a dramatic and bewitching climax.  After the excitement of “Follow Me”, we are permitted a brief breather by way of another instrumental, “Exit Music”.  Featuring Jon alone on keys, “Exit Music” gives us a moment to catch our breath and appreciate the beauty of melody that Savatage can weave when in a more mellow form.

   A rather creepy acoustic intro sets up the next song, “Degrees of Sanity”.  Hard hitting with some nice, crunchy riffs, “Degrees of Sanity” sounds much like another song that was originally intended for Jon, but Zak does him proud nonetheless.  Again, though, the really hero here is Criss Oliva, and it has become apparent by now that Edge of Thorns is truly Criss Oliva's finest hour, shredding all over the album with a prefect balance of youthful enthusiasm and mature artistry that should by all rights earn him a place in pantheon of guitar gods.  The heavy strings are carried over onto the next track, “Conversations Piece”.  A nice groove metal song with some rather curious lyrics, “Conversations Piece” nevertheless manages to satisfy the more metal side of Savatage.  It should be noted that with Jon's stepping down from lead vocal duties, Edge of Thorns marks the point when Paul O'Neill really stepped in as the band's primary (and later, sole) lyricist.  Compared to Jon's somewhat more blunt lyricism, Paul's lyrics are significantly more poetic, if frequently esoteric. Edge of Thorns thus sets another precedent that would continue on later albums as Paul's lyrics, which had begun to move to the fore on Streets, begin to take centre stage on Edge of Thorns, foreshadowing strongly the return to the rock opera format Savatage would ultimately pursue. 

   After “Conversations Piece”, we are given a strong foretaste of Trans-Siberian Orchestra on the following ballad, “All That I Bleed”.  Once of the most moving and touching of Savatage's power ballads, “All That I Bleed” features all the best elements of the band, and demonstrates just how well Zak's voice suits the lighter and more melodic side of Savatage.  The song's climax, full of pomp and bombast entirely worthy of TSO, fittingly pays homage to one of the band's primary influences, Queen, with Criss Oliva's solo being particularly Brian May-like.  In later years, Savatage would perform “All That I Bleed” as a tribute of an entirely different so to Criss Oliva himself.  We are then returned to more metal soundscapes with the hard rocking “Damien”.  This song, lyrically about a rich man observing and contemplating a homeless child, demonstrates the seamless melding of metal and Broadway elements which Savatage have become so good at by 1993.  While it is often and overlooked track form Edge of Thorns, “Damien” nevertheless serves as a strong example of a song that is very uniquely Savatage, the type of song no other band could write.

   Next we get the melodic “Miles Away”.  Starting out with some gentle crooning by Zak over another masterful Criss Oliva acoustic riff, the song becomes one of the most upbeat tracks in the Savatage discography once the full band kicks in.  “Miles Away” is also one of the more commercially friendly Savatage songs out there, and it is one of several tracks on Edge of Thorns that cements this records reputation as Savatage's most accessible.  Zak sings triumphantly as Criss shreds away and the band fires on all cylinders.  “Miles Away” very much the sound of a band riding high on their own creative genius, enjoying for the moment just how far they have come, and how much farther they may still reach.  “Miles Away” is followed by the acoustic ballad “Sleep”.  Featuring only Criss' acoustic guitar and Zak's voice, “Sleep” is one of the more instantly catchy and memorable cuts off Edge of Thorns.  It is most likely for these qualities that “Sleep” was chosen to be the second video and single from the album, although sadly it would not receive the full promotion that it was due, and was largely forgotten in the wake of the tragedy that would follow...

   The Japanese version of Edge of Thorns features two additional tracks.  The first, “Forever After”, features some nice groovy bass lines from Johnny Lee Middleton and wild riffing from Criss.  Zak is especially aggressive on this track, which was most likely another written with Jon Oliva's voice in mind.  “Forever After” lyrically demonstrates the band's social conscience about the environmental crisis that reach such high awareness in the 1990's, and similar themes of global awareness would become a hallmark of Savatage (as well as TSO and Jon Oliva's Pain) in later years.  The second song, which closes out the Japanese edition, is the balls to the wall rocker, “Shotgun Innocence”.  Fast paced and heavy, Zak's Southern musical influences once again come to the fore on this track, his blues drawl blending perfectly from the precision metal assault provided by Criss Oliva and co.  The stronger of the two bonus tracks, “Shotgun Innocence” closes out the Japanese import in style, and thus brings to an end one of the most crucial and formative chapters of the Savatage story.

   Given the rising popularity of grunge and a more mainstream friendly version of thrash metal in the early 90's, one would have expected a progressive melodic metal record like Edge of Thorns to be a mere footnote.  But the early 90's were a strange time for rock in America.  As the old 80's hair bands faded away, there was a brief gap in time before the new status quo began to gel and take shape.  It was a gap that Dream Theater, a band otherwise very much at odds with what was becoming popular in the 90's, was able to exploit, and gain a large degree of mainstream success and recognition.  And so too, did Savatage.  Fulled by the lead single of the title track, Edge of Thorns would propel the band to the height of their commercial success in their home country.  Bringing on Zak Stevens had paid off, and the band appeared poised to bring their unique form of progressive metal to the masses...

   … But a mere six months after the album was released, Criss Oliva was killed by a drunk driver in a car crash, and the entire world of Savatage collapsed beneath their feet.  When Criss died, so did the promotion for Edge of Thorns.  Any plans for further touring were scrapped as the band was sank deep into grief after the loss of their bandmate and brother.  Savatage effectively ceased to exist as the various band members disappeared into mourning, their future uncertain.  As for Jon Oliva himself, he had a nervous breakdown, one from which he was only able to recover by coping with the loss of Criss the best way he and Paul knew of; taking their pain and turning it into new music.  The ultimate future of Savatage, if their would even be a Savatage, still remained uncertain, but Jon and Paul were committed to making at least one more record.  Only time would tell if Savatage could carry on in the wake of such a loss.

   In retrospect, however, the death of Criss Oliva was probably the single most crucial factor that prevented Savatage from attaining the vast amounts of commercial success they had for so long coveted.  The tragedy derailed the band at a moment when their popularity was growing, but still tenuous, particularly in America.  How much bigger Savatage could have become in the States will never be known, because by the time they had sorted themselves out from the loss of Criss and released another album, the musical tastes of America had changed and Savatage's brief window of opportunity had begun to close.  Jon and Paul would be forced to forge ahead in a race against time to rally together a new band as Savatage entered it's third, and final, major phase...
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 04:35:12 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #225 on: October 05, 2015, 06:26:29 PM »
I would like to take this moment to dedicate this thread to Criss Oliva.  One of the greatest guitarists who ever lived, and a true inspiration to fans world wide.  Criss, you will always be missed.


Christopher Michael Oliva

4/3/1963 - 10/17/1993

:metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal :metal
« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 06:33:12 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #226 on: October 05, 2015, 06:38:05 PM »
very interesting write up!

Shotgun Innocence is a great song and should have been on the regular edition.

Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #227 on: October 05, 2015, 07:05:58 PM »
Just put this album on in anticipation of this writeup.

Man, right after Criss' solo in "He Carves His Stone", Zak just rips into this vocal line while Criss shreds behind him. I wish we could have had more! RIP Criss.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #228 on: October 05, 2015, 09:50:57 PM »
Damn it, Dark Master. I cried after reading your writeup.

My first exposure to Savatage was when a DJ in a popular FM radio station, for some reason, played "All That I Bleed" in his program. The early 1990s was an exciting time in the music industry here because hard rock finally gained mainstream airplay. Metal, though, remains marginalized, except for the occasional Metallica Black album song. So when I heard this amazing song played on the radio, I went, "what the hell was that?" My best guess is that the DJ played "All That I Bleed" because it sounded like a love song, and love songs generally get lots of airplay in Philippine radio.

"All That I Bleed" holds a special place in my heart because it was only the second time I heard a non-Filipino song where my mind said afterwards, "that was perfect." It's a perfect song. The build-up from the sad piano and heartfelt vocals  to the majestic climax with soaring vocals was amazing. The arrangement mirrors perfectly the story of the lyrics. Savatage captured in one song the essence of sadness and the desire to escape it. I can not think of any one element that can be improved in this song. It's perfect. It's like Savatage took the concept of "Save Me" by Queen, and perfected it. Dark Master, I agree with you that this song captured all the best elements of the band. I love this song.

I did not have enough money then to buy many music albums, so I taped that song from the radio. Those were the days! It was only a couple of years after, when I was already in college, that I got to know a friend who has a cassette tape of Edge of Thorns. I borrowed it, and to say that I was blown away was an understatement. The guitars, in particular, floored me. At that time, I had three guitar heroes: Brian May, Steve Vai, and Nuno Bettencourt. In terms of body of work, they may be more accomplished than Criss Oliva. But in terms of guitar work in a single album, Edge of Thorns is just a perfect guitar album. Every riff, every solo, the guitar tone, everything was on point. Edge of Thorns became my benchmark of the perfect album in terms of guitar. In a way, it explains why I like the other Savatage albums less. A lot of these other albums have better songs, especially Gutter Ballet. But my exposure to Edge of Thorns made me view the band in reference to Criss Oliva's guitars, and Criss Oliva just reached a standard so high in Edge of Thorns.

Around six years ago, I finally gained enough regular income to allow me to buy good music that I grew up with in the 1990s. During this bout with nostalgia, I searched for a live performance of "All That I Bleed" in Youtube. I said to myself, I bet this sounds very good live. I stumbled on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On1QYgA6Zmc

It's the first time that I learned that Criss Oliva is dead. My guitar hero, whose cassette tape of a perfect guitar album I have worn out due to overplay when I was growing up, is dead. All these years anticipating that I would hear more of his works when I finally have enough money to buy music, I did not know that he is already dead. I searched for more live performances on Youtube and found that Criss apparently never got to play "All That I Bleed" live. I might be wrong, but I have not seen any live performance of that song by Criss. And to this day, I am still saddened that I will never get to see Criss play that song live.

That to me sums up my Savatage experience, my Savatage love. Savatage, for me, is Criss Oliva's guitars. Savatage is "All That I Bleed."

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #229 on: October 05, 2015, 10:15:43 PM »
Because of this post, I searched Youtube and found the video of TSO/Nathan James singing All That I Bleed.

Damn you all, I am crying again. I have to compose myself before I teach in class in less than an hour.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #230 on: October 06, 2015, 01:03:57 PM »
I'll echo the RIP for Criss. What a player. Riffs, shred and melody and taste, he had it all.
 Was heavily not the neo classical shredders of the 80s and it pains me that criss is never mentioned in the same league as those guys.
But we know how great he was.

When I was looking for the words to go on the scroll of my tattoo, it was originally going to say 'passion & warfare but coming so soon after Criss' death there was no other choice, so Silk & Steel it was. Such a sad loss but so much more of course to his family and the band.

EoT is a great album. It took a while for me to warm to it, which is strange really because I always felt that I would love Savatage more with a different singer. As it is I like Zach but he wasn't what I had envisioned when I bought of the band with another singer. I was thinking generic metal vocals I guess, a Kiske, Tate, Dickinson type. And we got this bluesy guy.

Anyway, great album and the last one that really grabbed me under the Sava name. The ones that followed were ok but the band had lost a huge chunk of what made them great.

Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #231 on: October 06, 2015, 02:44:53 PM »
When I was looking for the words to go on the scroll of my tattoo
I would have went with "Under Construction".  I know so many people (myself included) that had moments where they thought about getting a tattoo but really weren't sure what they wanted.  Reminds me of "website under construction".  I want *that*, and I'm kinda making a commitment, but not really   :metal

Quote
And we got this bluesy guy.
I feel for Zak the way I do about DT12.  I'm glad it exists, but not exactly what I would have wanted.  Better than nothing.

Quote
Anyway, great album and the last one that really grabbed me under the Sava name.
I was rediscovering Criss at the same time as I was rediscovering Skolnick.  And it seemed like within days of my rediscovery, Criss died.  So it was kind of strange that Skolnick was the replacement, because he was the other guy I was thinking "wow.  These two guys are amazing.  I knew I liked them, but learning some of their work takes it to a whole new level."  Even though Criss was my favorite part of Savatage, I was surprised how much I liked Handful of Rain.  I even saw them live at a small club in 1994.  Jon was coming back in the band, Skolnick was there, Zak was there.  It was an awesome show and because it was a small club, I was right up on the stage.

The albums after that kind of had me losing interest.  I still enjoyed the albums, but it felt like something was missing.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #232 on: October 06, 2015, 04:19:30 PM »
Criss Oliva would be in my top 5 influences as a guitarist.  His phrasing, note selection, melodies and execution of all his solos was just incredible.  Such a fluent player and you could hear the love he had for the instrument.  Such an underrated talent and an absolute tragedy that he was taken away so wrongly.  It would have been interesting to see what Savatage would be now if he were still alive.  So sad.

This album is a guitarist's dream.  Song after song of incredible riffs and solos.  Perfect album too, great songs all the way through, love it.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline T-ski

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #233 on: October 07, 2015, 12:14:31 AM »
easily my favorite Tage album.  I could listen to the solo in "Miles Away" forever.
Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #234 on: October 07, 2015, 12:36:42 AM »
Wait a minute. My two favortie Savatage tracks in terms of drumming was drummed by Jon Oliva?

Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #235 on: October 07, 2015, 01:11:38 AM »
Ok.  This album is at the bottom of my top Savatage albums.  I'd probably put Mountain King, Gutter, Streets and Rain above it.  But that Mountain King to Rain run was incredible.   I'm making myself rank these songs so I revisit each and every song as this thread goes on.

The top 3 songs are world's above the rest of the album and all time classics.  It really is a 3 way tie for first.
1. Degrees of Sanity
1. Edge of Thorns
1. Damien

Then the next group are songs that I like as a whole, but just less so than the top 3
4. Labyrinths
5. Skraggy's Tomb
6. Conversations Piece
7. Exit Music

The next group are songs that I love, but only parts, not the whole song:
8. Follow Me:  The 2nd half slays the 1st half
9. All That I Bleed:  The guitar solo saves it
10. He Carves His Stones:  I love the music, but don't care for the lyrics

The bottom group are songs that I consider filler:
11. Sleep:  Don't love the song but the bridge adds just enough variety to make it interesting
12. Lights Out:  Seems out of place on this album
13. Miles Away:  Too Broadway for me

I think they left off Forever After and Shotgun Innocence because they feel like Jon Oliva vocal songs.  They aren't bad songs, but nothing Savatage noteworthy about them.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #236 on: October 09, 2015, 03:37:53 PM »
As it is I like Zach but he wasn't what I had envisioned when I bought of the band with another singer. I was thinking generic metal vocals I guess, a Kiske, Tate, Dickinson type. And we got this bluesy guy.


I think a lot of people feel the same way, and, to be honest, I wonder if the band would have been better served if they had just told the fans the truth about what was happening with Jon's voice.  At the time, Jon said he "left" because he felt he had taken Savatage as far as he could with Streets and wanted to try something else.  And while that is true to an extent, given what he did with Doctor Butcher and Romanov, the fact remain that the primary reason he stepped down when he did was because he had blown his voice out on the Streets tour, which didn't become public knowledge until much later.

They didn't need to get another metal singer like a Dickinson or a Tate because they already had a fantastic metal singer with Jon.  But when they brought Zak in, the fans didn't know that the plan was to give Jon time to heal his voice, and then have dual lead vocals.  So I can definitely see how people would be disappointed with Zak if they though he was intended to be an actual replacement for Jon.  With the benefit of hindsight, I wonder if Savatage would have kept their old guard fans happier if they had just said something like "Jon needs to give his voice a break, so we're going to bring in this new guy, and then when Jon is ready, we'll have both singers working in tandem together."  That might have held the interest of the fans of Jon era Savatage a bit more strongly throughout the 90's.

Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #237 on: October 09, 2015, 04:42:50 PM »
How long did it take for the *truth* to come out about Jon's voice?  I saw Savatage on October 24, 1994 for the Handful of Rain tour.  As usual, I was young and early to a small club gig.  All the members were very talkative, but Jon talked with me for so long that we ended up sitting down.  I don't remember every word, but I do remember a few big things for sure:

1.  I'm not going to ask you any Criss questions because that's too personal, but I'm just going to let you know how much I loved his playing and told him about how I was in the middle of rediscovering him in summer 1993 thanks to a friend that reminded me of how great he was.  Let him know how much he affected me as a musician currently attending Musicians Institute.  The friend story was interesting because I was already scheduled to pick him up at the airport THAT NIGHT.  He was in agony because he could have scheduled the flight a day earlier, but saved a couple bucks and it cost him his chance to see Savatage live.  I literally gave a girl from MI a ride home and then drove to LAX after the show to rub it in his face  :angel:
2.  Are you doing anything on stage tonight?  He lit up and talked about how he was gonna play keys and even play Criss' guitar.  He couldn't wait to blow our minds (or some similar statement)
3.  Why did you stop singing lead for Savatage?  I like Zak, but I thought Jon will always be the voice of Savatage.  I couldn't understand the need to replace him.  He said "frog in my throat".  I said "it must be getting better because I heard you on this album."  He smiled and led to:
4.  I believe I told him at this time my two favorite songs on the new album were Chance and Taunting Cobras.  He seemed really excited by that answer because he said something like:  Then you are going to love this.  If you like Chance, you are going to love what Paul and I are working on.  We are creating a rock orchestra thing, but not like where an orchestra sits in and adds some stuff to rock songs that were already there.  The "orchestration" is going to include the rock instruments.  It will be the focus, not just added embellishment.  And if you miss me singing in Savatage and like Taunting Cobras, you need to check out Doctor Butcher.  Totally different from the orchestra thing (I don't think he ever said the name TSO.  If he did, it wasn't tangible or recognizable enough for me to retain it then).  I believe he also mentioned he'd be singing more on upcoming Savatage albums, but not like in the past.
5.  I really like Skolnick, even though he wasn't the same as Criss, he had his unique lead sound that I happened to be rediscovering in unison with Criss.  Particularly The New Order where he really had quite a few extended lead spots.

So was the "frog in my throat" thing official October 1994?

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #238 on: October 09, 2015, 09:52:48 PM »
Wow, that's a really cool story, Calvin!  Thanks for sharing!   :tup

As for the "frog in the throat" thing; I know there were rumors floating around from pretty much the moment it was announced that Jon was stepping down as lead singer that the reason why was because he had lost his voice.  However, the official story for quite a while remained that Jon had left Savatage to pursue other interests, like Doctor Butcher and Romanov/TSO.  I don't think there was ever an official announcement that the real reason they brought in Zak was due to Jon losing his voice at the end of the Streets tour.  As the years went by, Jon just kind of started mentioning it in interviews, and it gradually became common knowledge.  That being said, even today a lot of Savatage fans still don't know the real reason why Jon left the mic after Streets.  As late as 2010, Jon was still having to explain exactly what happened back in 1992/93 to fans at a songwriting clinic, so I don't think an official statement was ever issued.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #239 on: October 11, 2015, 09:25:49 PM »
Handful of Rain write-up coming tomorrow!

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Re: The Savatage Discography - And so we end the chapter...
« Reply #240 on: October 12, 2015, 12:22:05 AM »
Love love love Handful of Rain.  Not that I ever doubted Jon's (and Paul's) contributions, but I was mainly a Criss fan.  Mainly because I was a young guitarist and therefore guitar ruled the roost in my world.  So when a Criss-less Savatage was released, I was sure it was going to be 1/3 (or 2/3) of what the last few Savatage albums were.  Instead, it made me think I might be able to love Savatage just as much without Criss (though this was short lived).

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Discography - What's the going price of innocence?...
« Reply #241 on: October 12, 2015, 08:21:18 PM »
   Part 9 – What's the going price of innocence?...




Released   August 16, 1994
Genre   Heavy metal
Progressive metal
Power metal
Length   49:03
Label   Atlantic/Wea
Producer   Jon Oliva
Paul O'Neill

Tracklist

1.   "Taunting Cobras"     3:21
2.   "Handful of Rain"        5:01
3.   "Chance"        7:50
4.   "Stare Into the Sun"        4:43
5.   "Castles Burning"        4:39
6.   "Visions" (Instrumental)      1:25
7.   "Watching You Fall"        5:20
8.   "Nothing's Going On"        4:09
9.   "Symmetry"     5:04
10.   "Alone You Breathe"        7:30

All songs written by Jon Oliva and Paul O'Neill

Credited line-up

Zachary Stevens - vocals
Alex Skolnick - guitar
Johnny Lee Middleton - bass
Steve Wacholz - drums

Actual line-up

Jon Oliva - rhythm and lead guitar, bass guitar, piano, keyboards, drums, backing vocals
Zachary Stevens - vocals
Alex Skolnick - lead guitar

Touring line-up

Zachary Stevens - lead vocals
Jon Oliva - keyboards, rhythm guitar, vocals
Alex Skolnick - lead guitar
Johnny Lee Middleton - bass
Jeff Plate - drums

   When Criss Oliva died, Savatage, for all intents and purposes, ceased to exist.  All of the momentum they had built up thanks to a string of exceptionally strong releases between the years of 1987 and 1993 came to a screeching halt, and what little mainstream success they had managed to achieve, particularly in America, where massive shifts in the musical landscape were taking place, began to fade away.  For the various members of the Savatage family, however, all other concerns took a backseat to the pain they felt from the loss of their friend and bandmate.  For some, particularly Chris Caffery and Johnny Lee Middleton, the shock of Criss' death was so jarring they disappeared for a while, entering seclusion as they were consumed by their own grief.  For others, especially Steve Wacholz, the loss of Criss raised serious questions about the future existence of Savatage, and whether or not the band could carry on in the face of such a tragedy.

   It should, of course, go without saying that no one was hit harder by the sudden passing of Criss then Jon Oliva himself.  The Mountain King had lost not only a bandmate, a friend and a co-songwriter, but a brother, one of his own flesh and blood.  What he felt in the immediate aftermath must have been unimaginable, and while the other members of Savatage went in their separate ways for the time being, Jon Oliva, in his own words, had a nervous breakdown.  For the second time in less then a decade, Savatage appeared to be on the edge of oblivion.  It was only when Paul O'Neill managed to get into contact with Jon that he was able to convince the latter that the best way to work though the pain was to get back to writing new music.  The first song Jon and Paul would write together following the death of Criss was an epic, heartfelt ballad dedicated to their recently deceased companion, “Alone You Breathe”.  Jon and Paul offered up “Alone You Breathe” to the record label, intending to release it as a single and a tribute to Criss, and would decide the long term future of Savatage at a later date.  The label, however, had little interest in a new single from Savatage, at least, not without a new album to support.  In order to have the song released, Savatage would need to record another album.

   At this point, there was still no band, only Jon and Paul working alone.  They attempted to get into contact with the other band members, but had a difficult time tracking them down.  They would later discover that it was due to the death of Criss that they other guys had become so reclusive for the time being, and were not yet ready to make a new Savatage record so soon after the death of their friend.  Some of them were also uncertain as to whether or not they even wanted to be in a Savatage without Criss.  And so, Jon and Paul entered into the studio without a band to write and record as much of the new album as they could on their own.  In the end, almost the entire album would be performed solely by Jon Oliva, excluding only the lead vocals, which were performed by Zak (whom Jon Oliva said they had to “bribe” to convince him to sing on the album) and most of the guitar solos.  Jon had originally asked Chris Caffery to play lead guitar on the album, but for Caffery, the prospect of having to fill Criss' shoes was far to daunting, particularly in the immediate aftermath of his passing.  Alex Skolnick of Testament, who had been a friend of Criss', a fond admirer of Savatage, and had originally been asked only to make a guest appearance on the new record, soon became, at least for the moment, the new lead guitarist of Savatage.

   The band that would ultimately emerge from the Handful of Rain era would be a radically different entity from what had existed before for a number of reasons.  Most importantly, with Criss gone, only Jon and Paul remained as the primary songwriters.  While both were talented musicians in their own rights, neither of them were as guitar-centric as Criss had been.  As a result, the music that Savatage would make from this moment on would become less built around riffs and more around vocals and orchestration, making the sound of the band as a whole somewhat more ornate and progressive, but also somewhat less metal.  Criss had most likely been the metal element in Savatage songwriting team, and without him, the band moved even further away from their metal roots.  To be fair, Savatage had been steadily heading in that direction anyways, at least as far back as when they had first started working with Paul, and arguably even before.  Nevertheless, Handful of Rain marked a giant leap further towards the heavily orchestral sound that would characterize their later years, and away from the raw metal mayhem of Sirens and Dungeons.

   Ironically enough, the album kicks off with a bang.  “Taunting Cobras” is a high powered groove metal assault on the senses as Jon and Paul doubtlessly express all their rage and frustration born of the death of Criss.  Zak's Southern drawl takes on an aggressive edge on this track, his delivery of the rapid fire lyrics precise and viscous.  Skolnick's solo is particularly mean, shredding up and down his scales with pure anger.  “Taunting Cobras” is rather misleading for an opening track, given that much of the record is far more mellow then this.  Nevertheless, it is appropriate enough, considering all volatile emotions Jon and Paul must have felt at the time.  “Taunting Cobras” is essentially an introduction to their pain and suffering, the hard hitting riffs driving home the hurt felt as a result of the loss of their comrade.

   Next up, we get a smooth, bluesy acoustic melody, a stark juxtaposition to the fury that had come before.  The song starts gently enough before exploding into a slow, steady riff with a good deal of chunk and grit.  Zak is very much in his element here on this, the album's title track, his more blues and country influences very much apparent.  Curiously, there is an extended version of this song with an additional verse, commonly referred to as the “Barmaid Verse”, before the first chorus, that was left absent from the cut that made it to the album, although the extended version appears to have been preferred for live performances.  “Handful of Rain” is undoubtedly one of the finest songs on the record, and was perhaps unsurprisingly chosen as the lead single for the album.  It's was not an altogether unreasonable choice, given the growing popularity of country at the time.  Even so, Jon Oliva was against shooting a music video for the song.  Headbanger's Ball was ending, and MTV had otherwise been unfriendly to Savatage.  The record label was adamant that the album needed a video regardless, and so “Handful of Rain” became the record's first, and last, foray into music television.  According to Jon, it was played only once, maybe twice, “But definitely less then three times.”  A damn shame, too, given that the video for “Handful of Rain” is easily one of Savatage's more visually striking and memorable, and quite possibly the best from the Zak Stevens fronted era of the band.

   The next track is undoubtedly the main attraction this disc has for most fans.  “Chance”, lyrically about a Japanese ambassador who helped many escape eastern Europe during World War Two, was born out of the necessity perceived by Jon and Paul to develop new elements to the sound of Savatage to make up for the loss of Criss and his musical virtuosity.  Both being huge fans of Queen, they decided to introduce to Savatage far more complex vocal arrangements then anything they had done before.  In a general overview, this epic of a song, the longest Savatage had done up to that point, consists of three major sections: a quiet opening with vocals and keyboards not all too dissimilar from Trans-Siberian Orchestra; a hard rocking groove metal middle section that is very nearly a song in it's own right; and, most famously, a regal vocal cannon section featuring the first appearance of what would become a signature of the Savatage sound in later years: counterpoint vocals.  On the album itself, the band merely recorded Zak singing all the vocal parts, although live they would have multiple members of the band singing all the different vocals lines simultaneously.  The result, a massive wall of multiple vocals layered one on top of the other, is impressive, to say the least.  Jon Oliva would later say that he considered “Chance” to be the true inception of TSO.  While this is certainly debatable, considering that the roots of TSO stretch all the way back to the “Prelude to Madness” from Hall of the Mountain King, “Chance” nevertheless marked the beginning of a new phase for Savatage, and it portended strongly toward the future.

   After the regal bombast of “Chance”, we get a bit of a breather with “Stare into the Sun”.  A gentle, blues-based number, “Stare into the Sun” finds the band in a more mournful state.  While there is a bit of riffage in the chorus, this is one of the album's more laid back tracks, leaving the listener to just relax and perhaps take some time to think.  “Stare into the Sun” is not all together uncommon for Handful of Rain.  Songs such as this beautifully illustrate the absence of Criss with their relative simplicity, and the more introspective lyrics give us an insight into all the issues that were certainly on Jon and Paul's mind at the time.  The next track, “Castles Burning”, pics up the pace a bit, although not much more.  This is another very TSO-esque track, steady and mid-paced, with the music serving primarily as a foundation for Paul's lyricism.  Again, the differences between this new Savatage and what had come before are thrown into stark relief on a track like this.  The wild, untamed riffing and solos of the past are long since gone.  Even so, the hauntingly beautiful “Castles Burning” still stands as one of the highlights of the album, but it does serve to illustrate rather strongly just how far from their 80's metal origins Savatage has come, and by doing so doubtlessly alienates some of the band's older, more puritanical metal fans.

   We are then given a brief sort of intermission with an instrumental, “Visions”, which reprises some melodies from the later section of “Chance”.  This track has rarely, if ever, actually been played by the band, although it has frequently been used and an intro tape for Savatage, as well as Jon Oliva's Pain.  The next real song, “Watching You Fall”, is slow and thoughtful, switching back and forth between ballad-esque verses and some rather hard choruses.  The track's middle section, where the rhythm picks up a bit, is one of the album's stand out moments, with some rather impassioned vocals by Zak and emotionally charged soloing by Skolnick.  The band lays their souls bare on this track, practically crying though the music for their lost brother.  The song reaches a majestic climax before fading back into silence, leaving one a brief second to catch their breath in awe of how much passion Jon and Paul have put into these songs, despite their relative lack of metal.

   Perhaps sensing that a listener of the heavier persuasion would be losing interest at this point, Savatage hits us hard with “Nothing's Going On”.  Despite being one of the album's more metal cuts, this song is, much like “Lights Out” from the previous album, somewhat forgettable.  Certainly enjoyable enough, it nevertheless sounds perhaps a bit hollow compared to some of the more emotionally motivated tracks from the record.  Alex Skolnick manages to shine here, however, and truly makes the track his own with some ripping solos.  The ride out at the end in particular is excellent, offering up one last bit of headbanging worthy metal before returning to more somber territory.  The next song, “Symmetry”, reuses the same acoustic riff as the old Gutter Ballet demo “Target”, which was also at one point the Streets lost track “Sanctuary”.  The song, while not as heavy as “Taunting Cobras” or “Nothing's Going On”, still remains one of the album's more rocking tracks.  The pre-chorus foretells what is to date the final Savatage album with the lyric “Poets and Madmen”.  “Symmetry” features another very solid solo section thanks to Skolnick, with Jon's rhythm guitar adding in some much appreciated chunk and grit.

   Lastly we reach the grand finale, the very reason why this album was made, the lengthy ballad, “Alone You Breathe”.  Written by Jon and Paul as a tribute to Criss, the song has proven to be one of Savatage's most enchanting, with some deftly woven lyricism entwined with sublime piano and guitar melodies.  The song again heavily points in the direction of TSO, with it's grandiose rock opera stylings and alternation between delicacy and bombast.  The song has rarely been played live due to the personal nature of the lyrics, with Jon Oliva mentioning that he frequently chokes up during performances of the track.  The track picks up three minutes before the end, building up to an epic, Broadway style finale, featuring some lyrical reprises from Streets' “Believe”.  Jon, Zak and Skolnick all pour their hearts and souls into the big finish, closing out what was most certainly the most difficult Savatage album of their careers in style.

   Handful of Rain is a difficult album to judge fairly.  Recorded less then a year after the death of a key songwriting member, is easily shows exactly what Savatage had lost with Criss.  The propensity for sudden impromptu soloing and shamelessly metal riffage that had so characterized earlier Savatage, even well into the Paul O'Neill era, had passed away with their departed bandmate.  There are plenty of riffs to be found on Handful of Rain, as well as the albums that follow, but from here on out they would, more often then not, be used as a support for the vocals and orchestration, rather then serving as the basis of the songwriting.  Likewise, there would be ample solos in Savatage in the later years; Caffery, Skolnick and Pitrelli would all, each in their own way, pay homage to their illustrious predecessor.  But the solos would be far more controlled and restrained, and generally confined to their designated place withing the great whole of the songwriting.  The new basis for Savatage would be in the increasing complexity of their vocal arrangements and their orchestration, with the band's more metal elements serving primarily to give the music a bit more “Oomph”.

   When it came time to hit the road for Handful of Rain, Savatage found themselves again in need of another replacement for a veteran member.  Long time drummer Steve Wacholz, who had already been moving away from the band during the Edge of Thorns period, and had declined to even tour for that record due to the increasing profitability of his side business, would make he decision to leave final in the wake of Handful of Rain.  The reasons for his departure are still debated to this very day.  By Wacholz's own account, not only did his commitment to a daytime job preclude further involvement in Savatage, but the musical direction the band had taken after Streets had failed to hold his interest.  He would later say that the debut album by Doctor Butcher, Jon Oliva's side project with Chris Caffery, was the record Savatage should have made after Streets.  According to Jon Oliva, Wacholz's reason for leaving came down purely to money, having wanted to be paid more to do the tour, and Doc's apparent dismay at the lack of exposure the “Handful of Rain” video had received.  Despite appearing in the video and album booklet as a full member, Wacholz would opt out of the band before the tour.  With little time to find a new drummer, Zak brought in Jeff Plate from his old band, Wykked Wytch, to fill the void, who would remain with Savatage, and TSO, ever since.
 
   Handful of Rain, despite the lack of promotion, still did relatively well in America, although it failed to reach the giddy heights of Edge of Thorns.  Savatage found themselves back at a Streets-era level of success.  Still profitable enough, with a loyal following, but now lacking serious mainstream consideration, and much of their popularity remaining at an underground level.  Handful of Rain would bear the ignominy of being the first Savatage album to not outsell it's predecessor.  Given the downturn in the the band's fortunes, Jon Oliva seriously considered laying Savatage to rest once and for all.  As fate would have it, however, two major factors, among others, would change his mind.  Firstly, the album managed to do quite well in Europe, particularly in Germany, which was at the time becoming a haven for hard rock and metal acts whose careers had peaked elsewhere.  Secondly, Paul O'Neill continued writing, inspired by the events taking place in the wider world.  Perhaps given the lack of any better options at the time, Jon would chose to continue Savatage in the wake of Criss' death.  What would follow would be one of the most pivotal albums not just for Savatage, but for the future of metal as a whole, an album that most people to this day have never even heard...
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 08:32:56 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Discography - What's the going price of innocence?...
« Reply #242 on: October 12, 2015, 08:44:04 PM »
I still followed Savatage releases from here but the direction wasn't as appealing to me as what came before.  My favourite moment on here is the mid/solo section in Watching You Fall where Skolnick gets one of the few chances to really show his stuff and make it sound more like classic Savatage.  There's nothing on the album that I really dislike but it's obviously missing something .  If Skolnick had been given more input I think it may have been a more interesting album musically , but I can totally get why he was more the "hired gun"
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Offline jammindude

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Re: The Savatage Discography - What's the going price of innocence?...
« Reply #243 on: October 12, 2015, 09:21:01 PM »
Even though I had really liked Savatage before, my fandom had been somewhat passive.   

I owned Gutter Ballet because of When the Crowds Are Gone, and I liked about half the album.   I bought Streets because of being intrigued by the idea of a rock opera, but it didn't grab me right away.    (I had also listened to Sirens and Dungeons when they were new because I just happened to be into thrash when it was new...but I also knew that Savatage had become drastically different)   

But one day (probably around spring of 1995) I found a used copy of Handful of Rain at the local CD shop.   I liked the cover, and the price was right, so I decided to give it a "chance"  :angel:    Taunting Cobras just kicked my butt seven ways into the next week, and for some reason, the rest of the album JUST...CLICKED.    It didn't take long before I went back and gave a fresh listen to the albums I already owned, and just got floored by them.   Then I bought Hall of the Mountain King for the first time and flipped out.     By the time DWD was released the following October, I was a full-fledged fan-boy and owned every album except for FFtR (because of the reputation it had of being their worst).   

I was always a bit confused by the lyrics to Alone You Breathe, and I know I'm not the only one.   I've seen the question asked on many fan sites why, if the song is written about Cris, does it sound more like someone has committed suicide?   "You just let go", "You've thrown it all away"....it's just odd.  AFAIK, these questions have never been answered.

Also, it should be noted that Alone You Breathe references When The Crowds Are Gone as well...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 09:27:03 PM by jammindude »
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Calvin6s

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Re: The Savatage Discography - What's the going price of innocence?...
« Reply #244 on: October 12, 2015, 09:23:48 PM »
Gonna have to find the time to go over this one.  This album surprised the heck out of me.