90s Classic Albums (Featuring: Matchbox Twenty)

[Calvin6s]

My favorite is probably Territorial Pissings
Followed closely by Breed

But I wasn't a big Nirvana fan.  I recall being at school and getting the call from home for the casual check in and the first thing said one time was something like "your guitar guy killed himself."  I had no idea what they were telling me.  It must have been breaking news because I was at a music school, so even though Nirvana wasn't held in high regard, that type of news would have spread like wildfire (like the Criss Oliva death).  I turned on a TV, saw what they were talking about and kinda felt  .  Because I wasn't a big Nirvana fan, so it wasn't as if my musical world was all that affected.  And still being young, you kind of had that "that dude sucked" (and I want to let everybody know that <musical artist I don't love> sucks).  So my natural young response was to say to my parents "meh.  I wasn't really into that music", but it was overwhelmed by the simple fact that a human being hated life so much that they decided to take their own life.  So there was the young musical snob feeling that I shouldn't care, but I actually did.

But I still didn't have the urge to buy a Nirvana album or even check them out any closer than MTV or radio in passing.  It took the Foo Figher song "Everlong" much later to gain interest in anything Nirvana related.

[Lolzeez]

Also I'm glad this album exists cause it killed the glam/hair metal scene which someone had to do anyways.

No, it didn't. I'd say it was record labels jumping on the fad that killed it.

Which fad are we talking about here,grunge or hair metal?

Grunge. Rock bands had to either jump on the bandwagon or get rock-blocked. One pop rock got replaced with another.

That's not true. Grunge already had existed before Smells Like Teen Spirit was a hit. Screaming Trees and Mudhoney were already up and running with a pretty decent following. (Especially Mudhoney,they were pretty huge) In fact,Nirvana usually opened for bands like Mudhoney,Dinosaur Jr,The Melvins and Sonic Youth before they got huge. So no,grunge wasn't only a fad,because the people who created the genre weren't trying to make it into one. (As a person who met Mark Arm from Mudhoney and had a conversation for an hour,I can assure you.)

[KevShmev]

Also I'm glad this album exists cause it killed the glam/hair metal scene which someone had to do anyways.

No, it didn't. I'd say it was record labels jumping on the fad that killed it.

Which fad are we talking about here,grunge or hair metal?

Blob is right (yes, that hurt to type ), in this respect:

Hair metal was already dying anyway, so it's a myth that grunge killed it.  It might be true that grunge pulled the plug on it, since it was on life support with only a 10% chance to live, but certain hair metal bands did well in the 90s post-Nirvana breakthrough, so I don't think one had to do with the other.

[Zantera]

Urgh, can't stand Nirvana. Definitely top3 (or bottom 3 depending on how you see it) most overrated bands. I can't think of anything I like about them. And I'm not really a hater of the genre, because I like Alice in Chains and I enjoy Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, but Nirvana is just one of those bands for me.

[erwinrafael]

Also I'm glad this album exists cause it killed the glam/hair metal scene which someone had to do anyways.

No, it didn't. I'd say it was record labels jumping on the fad that killed it.

that still sounds like the album had a hand in killing the scene. and rightly so. 

I've always hated Nirvana, but "Teen Spirit" was one of their more tolerable songs, although I wouldn't mind never hearing it again. The only good thing out of Nirvana were their cover songs from the unplugged show they did.

Not sure if Heart Shaped Box was one this album, but that and Soundgarden's Black Hole Sun was torture to my ears as a kid. So annoying.

That was on In Utero and these are two fantastic songs. 

Anyways, good album, great songwriting, production is a bit much but I think they corrected that with In Utero a little bit.

In Utero was indeed much better.

While Nirvana is not my favorite, I really appreciate them because their breaking into the mainstream opened FM radio play to rock music here in the Philippines, which in turn allowed Filipino rock bands to break through and get major airplay. The 1990s is great for our rock scene here, and the US rock scene in the early 1990s was a big factor.

[Kotowboy]

I never liked In Utero. I thought it was choc full of - and I hate to use the word for the wrong reasons but - filler.

It had a few decent tracks and a LOT of dross.

And yes - Teen Spirit isn't even the best song on Nevermind. My favourite songs on that album were always Territorial Pissinga, Breed, In Bloom  and On A Plain - which I thought were ALL better than Teen

Spirit.

[Cyclopssss]

I must be the only person in this world who doesn´t own this record.

[King Postwhore]

I must be the only person in this world who doesn´t own this record.

Nope, I also do not own it.

[Sacul]

I think my fav song here is actually the hidden track, which is basically noise, sick drumming and screaming. Still better than the rest of the album.

[King Postwhore]

I think my fav song here is actually the hidden track, which is basically noise, sick drumming and screaming. Still better than the rest of the album.

Really?  I'm no fan but even I like a few songs off the album.

[jammindude]

Contrary to popular opinion, grunge did not begin here.    Grunge peaked and ended here.    It was all downhill after this.

It was all downhill from here? I guess Superunknown and Dirt are steps down from Nevermind, huh?

As for those who can not appreciate this album, I think it is a generational thing. Nevermind was like a rallying call against the flamboyance and elitism of 80s rock and metal. It embodies the angst and the attitude of our generation. Just like Jagged Little Pill, if you judge it with 1980s lens, you won't get it.

To many locals, Louder Than Love and Facelift are miles above Super and Dirt.     Those of us who remember when they were packing clubs were not showering them with praise for Outshined....because it didn't exist yet.   We loved them for Hunted Down and Nothing to Say and Hands All Over.    We loved Alice for It Ain't Like That, Love Hate Love and Bleed the Freak.   We loved Mudhoney....yes, we did....and yet the rest of the nation totally ignored them when there was probably no other band in the movement that remained truly grunge.  (heck, their singer Mark Arm invented the term in the first place)

[Sacul]

I think my fav song here is actually the hidden track, which is basically noise, sick drumming and screaming. Still better than the rest of the album.

Really?  I'm no fan but even I like a few songs off the album.

I also like the opener, but the rest I feel they're some pretty lame songs, with these awful vocal melodies. Decent guitar work, and great drumming though.

[mrrct]

I do not own this album either, although I briefly owned In Utero because I didn't mail my reply card back to BMG on time.

I hated Nirvana (and the grunge genre in general) because I didn't care for the vocalists or the musicianship.  Cobain sounded like he was in agony when he was singing which, given his stomach condition, he probably was, but at least he didn't sound like Eddie Vedder.  I believe Metal Evolution referred to the vocal style as the "warble," but I could be mistaken.  While not liking the song, I did think the video for "In Bloom" was cool, with the faux-Ed Sullivan show theme.

In retrospect, the drumming on the album probably has to be considered good, but I still don't consider Cobain a great guitarist by any stretch.  Better than punk guitarists maybe, but that's it.

I agree with some of my fellow posters in that grunge did not kill hair metal.  The second and third generation hair metal bands (Nelson being a great example) killed hair metal, just as the second and third generation grunge bands killed grunge.  Nu metal didn't even get to second and third generations, because the originals (Limp Bizkit) were able to kill it themselves.

[King Postwhore]

No the bands didn't kill it.  The over saturation of these bands buy record labels looking for the next Poison or Ratt killed it, just like looking for the next Pearl Jam or Nirvana killed (or a better word morphed) music in a new direction.

[Calvin6s]

I did think the video for "In Bloom" was cool, with the faux-Ed Sullivan show theme.

Such a refreshing music video after those dumb hair band videos

[jammindude]

^^^^^^

I don't want to sidetrack the arguement too much, but there was quite a bit of difference between the more glammy bands like Poison and Warrent, and the dirtier, gritty "street" persona that GNR started and Faster Pussycat, LA Guns and (to a lesser extent) Spread Eagle tried to move forward.   In a way, I always thought it was a bit sad that those bands got swept under the rug with "hair metal" because it seemed to me like there were bands within the Hollywood scene that were trying (succesfully) to take the whole movement into a grittier direction....and I loved it.   Warrior Soul was another great example.   But when grunge came along, no one cared that the LA scene was maturing, and the songwriting was improving.    To most people, it was all the same....so it all died the same death.

[bl5150]

I would also object to Jani Lane being lumped in with Poison JD  ......he was one of the better songwriters around in any genre at the time IMHO.  Sure he wrote Cherry Pie in 30 seconds as a last minute thing , but on that album and the grittier albums like Dog Eat Dog and Ultraphobic he really did some good work.  They were one of the few hair metal bands who managed to put out a good "bandwagon" album post-Nirvana.  Most of them blew chunks.

Good to see Spread Eagle get a mention.......I had them up in the album listening thread in the last couple of weeks.  Don't hear them mentioned often.

Good to see the Nirvana discussion being sidetracked too........thanks guys 

[Calvin6s]

Hair metal (talk) is putting an end to grunge (talk)

[Anguyen92]

Not sure if Heart Shaped Box was one this album, but that and Soundgarden's Black Hole Sun was torture to my ears as a kid. So annoying.

I'm a fan of the Superunknown album, which will be eventually discussed here probably, but I just could not get into Black Hole Sun.  The other singles, Spoonman, The Day I Tried to Live, those are the good stuff to me.

I must be the only person in this world who doesn´t own this record.

Nope, I also do not own it.

Yep.  I have yet to hear this album in its entirety and, honestly, I'm probably going to leave myself to be disappointed in it if I do, since this album is put on a huge pedestal in pop culture history which means it's probably going to be hard for me to relate to it or enjoy it.

[KevShmev]

I must be the only person in this world who doesn´t own this record.

Nope, I also do not own it.

I have also never owned it.  I have also never owned anything by Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains or Soundgarden.

[King Postwhore]

Those I do own albums of.  I was into King's X, Dishwalla, Better Than Erza, The Posies, ect...

[carl320]

I own it, and I like it.  I learned how to play bass guitar listening this album, and cite Kris Novoselic as an influence.

That said, I like In Utero more because of the raw feel.  Nevermind sounds very clean and refined for a genre called Grunge.

I never really got into Pearl Jam as much as Alice in Chains and Soundgarden.  Soundgarden is my favorite band to come out of that scene.

[Outcrier]

Contrary to popular opinion, grunge did not begin here.    Grunge peaked and ended here.    It was all downhill after this.

It was all downhill from here? I guess Superunknown and Dirt are steps down from Nevermind, huh?

To many locals, Louder Than Love and Facelift are miles above Super and Dirt.

Still, personal opinions aside, Superunknown and Dirt are for more praised than Louder Than Love and Facelift and generally viewed as the magnum opus of both bands.

[jammindude]

I own it, and I like it.  I learned how to play bass guitar listening this album, and cite Kris Novoselic as an influence.

That said, I like In Utero more because of the raw feel.  Nevermind sounds very clean and refined for a genre called Grunge.

I never really got into Pearl Jam as much as Alice in Chains and Soundgarden.  Soundgarden is my favorite band to come out of that scene.

Of the big 4, Soundgarden is the one that managed to be the least "radio friendly" of the bunch, even though they managed to get played on the radio anyway, so I give them props for that.

In all fairness, I probably never gave latter day Soundgarden a fair shake, so I should remedy that. 

But as far as Nevermind goes, Kurt himself was just lightning in a bottle.   He was in the right place at the right time.   He completely encapsulated the disillusionment we were all feeling at the time.   That was what kindof made him special.   I have a very deep respect for his work and everything he was shooting for.   I also like In Utero more than Nevermind (and yes, I know that goes against what I just said about Nevermind being the "peak" as well as "the end") because it truly did piss off those who wanted Nevermind 2 at that time.     I knew one guy in particular who claimed that they had done such a great job with the singles from Nevermind, and it just seemed like career suicide to him to do something as noisy and "avant guarde", and surreal as Heart Shaped Box seemed by comparison.   

[jammindude]

Contrary to popular opinion, grunge did not begin here.    Grunge peaked and ended here.    It was all downhill after this.

It was all downhill from here? I guess Superunknown and Dirt are steps down from Nevermind, huh?

To many locals, Louder Than Love and Facelift are miles above Super and Dirt.

Still, personal opinions aside, Superunknown and Dirt are for more praised than Louder Than Love and Facelift and generally viewed as the magnum opus of both bands.

Of course they were.   Because those were most people's first exposure to the band.   Most people weren't there when it all happened. 

[Outcrier]

Or simply because they're better albums 

[King Postwhore]

Superunknown & Dirt was not people's first exposure.  MTV played the he'll out of Man In A Box & Outshined.

[jammindude]

Superunknown & Dirt was not people's first exposure.  MTV played the he'll out of Man In A Box & Outshined.

Well...with Soundgarden, I was thinking anything from BMF forward was the "jumping off" point...but with AiC you've got a point.

[King Postwhore]

AIC opened for VH on the F.U.C.K. tour and that was big for them and Soundgarden on the Lolopoluza (sp?) Tour and both gave them great exposure.

[Outcrier]

And I'm not really a hater of the genre, because I like Alice in Chains and I enjoy Pearl Jam and Soundgarden, but Nirvana is just one of those bands for me.

This. While not a fan of grunge, i prefer all these bands over Nirvana.

[jammindude]

AIC opened for VH on the F.U.C.K. tour and that was big for them and Soundgarden on the Lolopoluza (sp?) Tour and both gave them great exposure.

I remember AiC opening the Clash of the Titans tour (Slayer/Anthrax/Megadeth).   Man in the Box had just hit the airwaves.   I was really happy for them.  Years earlier, I was working on a construction site where all the plumbers were their "roadies".   They had leather jackets with the older logo painted on the back, and they would party all night and sleep in one of the bathtubs on the job so they wouldn't be late for work the next day.   

[King Postwhore]

I love the old stories of what bands did while trying to make it.

[Fluffy Lothario]

jammindude, I went back and checked out both Louder Than Love and Facelift over the years, and gave both albums time, but found them really disappointing compared to the band’s later stuff. If the bands went more mainstream, it was because they tidied up and improved their songwriting. But yeh, that’s coming from someone who only really checked the bands out in the late 90s, when both were already bands of the past.

[TAC]

Of the big 4, Soundgarden is the one that managed to be the least "radio friendly" of the bunch, even though they managed to get played on the radio anyway, so I give them props for that.

In all fairness, I probably never gave latter day Soundgarden a fair shake, so I should remedy that. 

But as far as Nevermind goes, Kurt himself was just lightning in a bottle.   He was in the right place at the right time.   He completely encapsulated the disillusionment we were all feeling at the time.   That was what kindof made him special.   I have a very deep respect for his work and everything he was shooting for.   I also like In Utero more than Nevermind (and yes, I know that goes against what I just said about Nevermind being the "peak" as well as "the end") because it truly did piss off those who wanted Nevermind 2 at that time.     I knew one guy in particular who claimed that they had done such a great job with the singles from Nevermind, and it just seemed like career suicide to him to do something as noisy and "avant guarde", and surreal as Heart Shaped Box seemed by comparison.

J-Dude, I appreciate your comments on this subject, especially given your geography.

I have a few thoughts. We are probably very close to the same age. Were you really feeling disillusionment during this time period? Honestly I'm surprised to hear that. You seem pretty put together, and I assumed you would be even at that age.

Personally, I was never into Nirvana. I did jam (on drums) with some guys in a Nirvana tribute band so I had to learn their songs, and I came to appreciate a lot of it. I ended up buying their albums. I actually didn't find Heart Shaped Box avant garde, but after buying In Utero, I literally couldn't listen to it with all of the screaming. THAT album is angry!!

And not directing this to J Dude, but would I be wrong in not classifying Pearl Jam as grunge? I mean they came from Seattle and wore flannel, but if Nirvana is grunge, then there's no way that Pearl Jam is. Musically, Pearl Jam is in another league. Never got into Soundgarden or have heard much, but saw them open for GnR twice in late '91, and they were grungy.

I would like to say that Nirvana's Unplugged In NY is probably my favorite non metal album of the 90's.

I also never found Facelift to be grunge. I likened it a lot closer to Armored Saint than I did to Nirvana.

I remember AiC opening the Clash of the Titans tour (Slayer/Anthrax/Megadeth).   

You just gave me a great excuse to post this picture I took on 7/6/91 in Mansfield, MA!

[jammindude]

You have to remember that to someone who was there...this stuff doesn't even *sound* like grunge.   Not when it was christened as such, anyway.

THIS is grunge if you live in Seattle.  And it's freakin awesome, but totally different from what grunge is in the national perspective.   This was the sound that got every teenager in the Seattle area of the late 80's off their couches and into the clubs...and became a revolution.   In the early days, this one one of Sub Pop's biggest selling albums, and it's still a classic. 

Mudhoney - Superfuzz Bigmuff (full album)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0994dIvoI8Q