The Official Exercise/Fitness Thread v. Run Forest, Run!

[jingle.boy]

All fair points, Gregg.  And with those goals of yours in mind, I do see how it could be a sustainable thing.  For people with different fitness/athletic goals, Keto does seem to be only a short term thing to be used (as H suggests) as a 'cut' phase.  I must say, the appeal of high fat foods (lots of eggs, cheese, pork) sounds appealing, but it wouldn't fit in the jingle.household or with my fitness priorities. 

I'm glad to hear it's working for you and your needs tho.   

[Podaar]

Best thing about keto, Chad? Whiskey has zero carbs!! 

[SchecterShredder]

I won't dispute the effectiveness of Keto. It definitely works (ever see a high-level crossfit athlete? You could practically grate cheese on their abs). It's just not a realistic nutrition plan for my fitness regime. Even in the winter I'm still doing 2hr long-rides on the weekend, so my body needs a bunch of carbs just to sustain my energy levels through the workout. Also... I like to make pizza on the weekend so there's that, too.

[wolfking]

Good info Podaar, and well done on your success.  Again, all good information.  I think it's simply a case of listening to your body, it tells you what it needs most of the time.  Fats are quite underrated too IMO, if that makes sense.  Nuts, eggs, salmon and peanut butter are constant staples in my diet.  I'd take them over pasta, rice, breads, potatoes anyday.  it's the ice cream and chocolate that gets me.

[Podaar]

Good info Podaar, and well done on your success.  Again, all good information.  I think it's simply a case of listening to your body, it tells you what it needs most of the time.  Fats are quite underrated too IMO, if that makes sense.  Nuts, eggs, salmon and peanut butter are constant staples in my diet.  I'd take them over pasta, rice, breads, potatoes anyday.  it's the ice cream and chocolate that gets me.

Avocados, don't forget the avocados. They maybe the perfect "good fat" food and are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Plus, they're just fucking yummy!

[wolfking]

Good info Podaar, and well done on your success.  Again, all good information.  I think it's simply a case of listening to your body, it tells you what it needs most of the time.  Fats are quite underrated too IMO, if that makes sense.  Nuts, eggs, salmon and peanut butter are constant staples in my diet.  I'd take them over pasta, rice, breads, potatoes anyday.  it's the ice cream and chocolate that gets me.

Avocados, don't forget the avocados. They maybe the perfect "good fat" food and are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Plus, they're just fucking yummy!

Personally, I HATE them.  I know flame away.  I've tried a few different types at different times, and I just can't fucking stand them.

[SchecterShredder]

Good info Podaar, and well done on your success.  Again, all good information.  I think it's simply a case of listening to your body, it tells you what it needs most of the time.  Fats are quite underrated too IMO, if that makes sense.  Nuts, eggs, salmon and peanut butter are constant staples in my diet.  I'd take them over pasta, rice, breads, potatoes anyday.  it's the ice cream and chocolate that gets me.

Avocados, don't forget the avocados. They maybe the perfect "good fat" food and are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Plus, they're just fucking yummy!

Personally, I HATE them.  I know flame away.  I've tried a few different types at different times, and I just can't fucking stand them.

^^This. My wife kept trying to get me to eat avocados, so I caved and gave them a go. Never again will I allow that slimy nonsense in my mouth.

Peanut butter is my biggest nutritional weakness. I'm sure it's ok in moderation, but that's my problem. I eat it by the spoonful right out of the jar because it's so easily accessible. I'm actually considering putting in our time lock container each night because I struggle with middle of the night peanut butter snacking if I get summoned by my toddler during the night or have to go to the bathroom.

[cramx3]

Avocados need to be paired with the correct food for me to really like them.  Had some on a turkey sandwich last week that was really good.  I got this omega 3 trail mix from target that is soooo damn good with walnuts, almonds, craisins, and some sort of seed (forget off the top of my head) and while healthy fats, it may be too good.  I can't stop eating it and I may not buy it again for that reason

[wolfking]

Good info Podaar, and well done on your success.  Again, all good information.  I think it's simply a case of listening to your body, it tells you what it needs most of the time.  Fats are quite underrated too IMO, if that makes sense.  Nuts, eggs, salmon and peanut butter are constant staples in my diet.  I'd take them over pasta, rice, breads, potatoes anyday.  it's the ice cream and chocolate that gets me.

Avocados, don't forget the avocados. They maybe the perfect "good fat" food and are loaded with vitamins and minerals. Plus, they're just fucking yummy!

Personally, I HATE them.  I know flame away.  I've tried a few different types at different times, and I just can't fucking stand them.

^^This. My wife kept trying to get me to eat avocados, so I caved and gave them a go. Never again will I allow that slimy nonsense in my mouth.

Peanut butter is my biggest nutritional weakness. I'm sure it's ok in moderation, but that's my problem. I eat it by the spoonful right out of the jar because it's so easily accessible. I'm actually considering putting in our time lock container each night because I struggle with middle of the night peanut butter snacking if I get summoned by my toddler during the night or have to go to the bathroom.

Thank you.  Fuck avocados!

With peanut butter, you can find lots of natural ones that are just that peanuts but the supermarket mass prodcued ones with the sugars and salts are just magic.  Yep, late night tablespoons of straight peanut butter is the go mate.  You kind of don't think of the amount of calories you consume in one big spoonful though, it's quite incredible.  Self control is definitely needed.

[cramx3]

I had a jar of peanut butter that was about to expire (I think it must have been my brothers, I don't but it because I will just eat it by the spoonful) and thats exactly what I did, no self control, just devoured the remaining half jar over the course of a couple days.  Not good for the diet.  I won't buy anymore because I can't have that temptation, same with this nuts.  Shit is supposed to be healthy but not when you eat so much of it.

[wolfking]

I had a jar of peanut butter that was about to expire (I think it must have been my brothers, I don't but it because I will just eat it by the spoonful) and thats exactly what I did, no self control, just devoured the remaining half jar over the course of a couple days.  Not good for the diet.  I won't buy anymore because I can't have that temptation, same with this nuts.  Shit is supposed to be healthy but not when you eat so much of it.

People talk about nuts saying you can eat them cause they are healthy fats and whatnot.  Yet, the handful of nuts they probably grab and eat in 30 seconds probably has a quarter or more of their daily calories right there.  As with PB obviously the amount of calories in such a small amount is wicked.  If I take them to work, I always weigh out around 40g or so.  You have to portion it or else you'll be fucked.

[cramx3]

Exactly, my jar of nuts says 140 calories per serving and theres 20 servings.  So a handful is probably only half a serving considering how big the jar is, but when you have 5 handfulls... that shit adds up quickly.  It's certainly better than eating junk food but when the quantity starts to get up there, it's no longer healthy. 

I've found pickles to be an awesome low calorie snack.  These kosher dill pickles I could eat all day long and it's only 5 calories each.  High in salt though so still got to limit it, but in terms of calories, this has been one of my favorite go to snacks lately.  Also good as natural food against my gout (which hasn't been an issue for months now, my longest streak in a few years and I'd imagine my diet and exercise being a big reason for that, including pickles).

[Podaar]

Fuck avocados!

No, no, no...you eat them, silly.

[wolfking]

Fuck avocados!

No, no, no...you eat them, silly.

That's less fun.

[Phoenix87x]

Besides lifting and cardio, I wanted to add more to my fitness, so I just started doing Jiu Jitsu and I have really fallen in love with it.

I thought I was in relatively decent shape, but all of that has been tested and I'm now working muscles I didn't even think about. And the hectic nature of sparring is fantastic cardio and is making my mind sharper. Its a pretty technical and fascinating discipline and I am really enjoying it.

[cramx3]

That sounds pretty cool.  The first full week back at work and I'm trying to get back into things.  I kept myself constant over the holidays but I'd like to keep working on losing some weight and it's sooo much easier when I work a normal schedule so I can keep a routine on my diet and work outs.  Day 1 was a success, bring on the rest of the week and so on.

[wolfking]

Besides lifting and cardio, I wanted to add more to my fitness, so I just started doing Jiu Jitsu and I have really fallen in love with it.

I thought I was in relatively decent shape, but all of that has been tested and I'm now working muscles I didn't even think about. And the hectic nature of sparring is fantastic cardio and is making my mind sharper. Its a pretty technical and fascinating discipline and I am really enjoying it.

I've always wanted to get into something like this.  I still may in the future.

[wolfking]

So, I've been pretty lean now for a while when some years ago I was fat and very out of shape but finally am to the point where I've dropped around 40kg-45kg (90-100lbslbs) and have maintained it for a while with some improvements over my body composition over time, while increasing fitness and strength.  I look okay but my stomach area still see effects of my 28 years or so of obesity.  I've been eating pretty shit since mid December, but not over eaten so I haven't increased in weight.  However I'm finding myself substituting proper meals for shit food and my beloved donuts and ice cream.  I'm finding I'm substituting calories more and more and because I'm pretty smart about it, maintaining my weight makes it more tempting to keep doing it.

I've decided for no reason, to try and completely cut all the crap and try and finally rid the excess fat on my stomach area.  I'm giving myself 3 months to achieve an outcome hopefully.  Looking at somewhat of a keto based diet but maybe more balanced between protein and fat.  It's the morning of day 3 and I'm kind of struggling.  I feel bloated from what I think is too much protein and my toilet habits have taken a hit.  Relying on shakes and more meat is hard to adjust to, and I really need to up my water intake.  Nuts and peanut butter seem like they will be a staple too.  I know I have to cut the shakes and have more proper meals with more fat, but time is tricky and I struggle with food prep.  It's only day 3 but feeling already I'll need to add more fatty fish perhaps like salmon over steak.  It's quite limiting once you start really. 

One thing I'd love to improve is sleep.  In my quieter season when I was starting later, the extra sleep seem to do wonders.  Super determined to try and get the body fat down though.

[cramx3]

Is there anything that shows a keto diet hits the belly fat hard?  I've been trying to figure out how to get the belly fat as well, but I'm not sure what exactly targets that.  A friend told me to stop drinking booze. 

[wolfking]

Is there anything that shows a keto diet hits the belly fat hard?  I've been trying to figure out how to get the belly fat as well, but I'm not sure what exactly targets that.  A friend told me to stop drinking booze.

It's funny because I'm all about calories in and calories out and I've proven that to myself since mid December.  The talk is, the lack of carbs means your body taps into it's fat stores more, but coming back again, if you are in a calorie defeceit, the same thing will happen.

I haven't done much research, I just know I'm not a pasta, rice, bread, potato guy so in theory it seemed like I'd adapt to it.  I think cutting out stuff like protein bars also has been tough these last two days.  I do like the idea of higher fat intake, I think that's beneficial for us men.  Maybe if I can do a sensible carb refeed type thing twice a week it might be worth it. 

I'm really just looking at keeping carbs low unless for a refeed type situation, cut the crap food and train hard.  I don't want to make it too complicated with macros.  Might even have a bigger cheat meal once every fortnight of once a month.   

[wolfking]

Is there anything that shows a keto diet hits the belly fat hard?  I've been trying to figure out how to get the belly fat as well, but I'm not sure what exactly targets that.  A friend told me to stop drinking booze.

IMO alcohol is not good if you're trying to get and maintain a lean figure.  Maybe if your younger it's not too bad, but I'm 35 and don't drink really at all anymore and when I have a drink here or there, it doesn't really agree with me.  Everyone's different though, that's the thing, there's no one plan fits all.  Plus some people a gifted and can buck the system.  So many things come into play, age, hormones, genetics, type of activity, sleep cycles, you have to try and find something that works for you I guess.

Saying that, the leaner you get, the tougher it is to lose that fat.

[cramx3]

Yea I get that, and there's a reason they call it a "beer belly" I'm just wondering and I haven't found an answer of how to specifically target belly fat.  I'm not sure there is a way unless you just consistently burn more than you eat over a significant period that it's the only fat remaining to loose and that's the hardest part.  I'm not there at all yet, but I feel my legs/arms/face have all shrunk, but my belly has hit a point that is very hard to cut into.  I know someone told me "do more sit ups" but I don't think our bodies work like that.

[wolfking]

Yea I get that, and there's a reason they call it a "beer belly" I'm just wondering and I haven't found an answer of how to specifically target belly fat.  I'm not sure there is a way unless you just consistently burn more than you eat over a significant period that it's the only fat remaining to loose and that's the hardest part.  I'm not there at all yet, but I feel my legs/arms/face have all shrunk, but my belly has hit a point that is very hard to cut into.  I know someone told me "do more sit ups" but I don't think our bodies work like that.

You just answered your own question. 

You simply can't target fat anywhere on your body.  The stomach is usually the last place for it to go, so body fat levels simply need to be dropped and when fat has been taken from all other places, it will start coming from your stomach. 

I made the mistake for years though not training my abs.  Sit ups won't make the fat from the stomach drop, and people are naive to think that, but training core can add some thickness and we train arms, back, legs, chest, shoulders, abs are no different. I train abs a lot now and it's helped my core, but hopefully it at least builds them up slightly and makes them slightly more noticeable at a higher body fat.

[cramx3]

Yea I talked about about exactly this with others outside of here, brought it up in case someone had some good insight above what I understand but it may just be as simple as already stated except for the simple part.

[Podaar]

As for alcohol and being lean...it depends on what you drink and, of course, how much. Spirits are typically low in calories and zero carbs, a glass of wine is moderate in both calories and carbs, beer runs the gambit from low to high in both categories. What is significantly detrimental to weight loss goals are mixers, soda, garnishes and liqueurs. They are all loaded with both calories and carbs, not to mention carbonation. If your jam is an occasional spirit neat or on the rocks it shouldn't effect your weight loss at all.

Cram, I've been in ketosis for months now and I'm pretty lean everywhere but my middle. I expect that the last 15 lbs (or so) left to lose is going to take 6 months or better. So, I'd say that Keto will help you loose your belly fat but it's not quick by itself. Combined with moderate weight lifting and core exercises you may get quicker results.

Edit: Keto's is a pretty decent sized commitment, though. I don't think anyone would be pleased with it as an on again off again sort of diet.

[cramx3]

I'm not interested in keto unless science showed it made a significant dent in belly fat.

As for my drinking habits, I'm close to an exclusive vodka club drinker which is one of the lowest calorie drinks you can have. I never drink soda and beer is very very limited for me because my body doesn't handle it well anymore other than spot drinks here and there. Although white claws have become a nice replacement for a social beer other than the girly stigma.

[H2]

So, I've been pretty lean now for a while when some years ago I was fat and very out of shape but finally am to the point where I've dropped around 40kg-45kg (90-100lbslbs) and have maintained it for a while with some improvements over my body composition over time, while increasing fitness and strength.  I look okay but my stomach area still see effects of my 28 years or so of obesity.  I've been eating pretty shit since mid December, but not over eaten so I haven't increased in weight.  However I'm finding myself substituting proper meals for shit food and my beloved donuts and ice cream.  I'm finding I'm substituting calories more and more and because I'm pretty smart about it, maintaining my weight makes it more tempting to keep doing it.

I've decided for no reason, to try and completely cut all the crap and try and finally rid the excess fat on my stomach area.  I'm giving myself 3 months to achieve an outcome hopefully.  Looking at somewhat of a keto based diet but maybe more balanced between protein and fat.  It's the morning of day 3 and I'm kind of struggling.  I feel bloated from what I think is too much protein and my toilet habits have taken a hit.  Relying on shakes and more meat is hard to adjust to, and I really need to up my water intake.  Nuts and peanut butter seem like they will be a staple too.  I know I have to cut the shakes and have more proper meals with more fat, but time is tricky and I struggle with food prep.  It's only day 3 but feeling already I'll need to add more fatty fish perhaps like salmon over steak.  It's quite limiting once you start really. 

One thing I'd love to improve is sleep.  In my quieter season when I was starting later, the extra sleep seem to do wonders.  Super determined to try and get the body fat down though.

Nice man! Sounds like you're motivated. The big thing I'd say I learned from keto is that it worked but my athletic performance took a hit (both in intensity and endurance of weight lifting and running). So if I were to do it again, I'd probably only go for a month, or two months tops. Good luck to you, let us know how it goes!

@cramx3 This video's video description links to a bunch of studies that validates the effectiveness of low-carb diets for weight loss.

[wolfking]

As for alcohol and being lean...it depends on what you drink and, of course, how much. Spirits are typically low in calories and zero carbs, a glass of wine is moderate in both calories and carbs, beer runs the gambit from low to high in both categories. What is significantly detrimental to weight loss goals are mixers, soda, garnishes and liqueurs. They are all loaded with both calories and carbs, not to mention carbonation. If your jam is an occasional spirit neat or on the rocks it shouldn't effect your weight loss at all.

Cram, I've been in ketosis for months now and I'm pretty lean everywhere but my middle. I expect that the last 15 lbs (or so) left to lose is going to take 6 months or better. So, I'd say that Keto will help you loose your belly fat but it's not quick by itself. Combined with moderate weight lifting and core exercises you may get quicker results.

Edit: Keto's is a pretty decent sized commitment, though. I don't think anyone would be pleased with it as an on again off again sort of diet.

Do you have any cheats or refeeds mate?  Sounds like your making some good progress.

[wolfking]

I'm not interested in keto unless science showed it made a significant dent in belly fat.

As for my drinking habits, I'm close to an exclusive vodka club drinker which is one of the lowest calorie drinks you can have. I never drink soda and beer is very very limited for me because my body doesn't handle it well anymore other than spot drinks here and there. Although white claws have become a nice replacement for a social beer other than the girly stigma.

If you can count your alcohol calories into your daily allowance somehow, it would at least be not so damaging.  I'm not sure what Vodka club is but maybe substuting vodka in some soda water or something?  It all depends as Podaar said, how often and how much you're drinking.

[wolfking]

So, I've been pretty lean now for a while when some years ago I was fat and very out of shape but finally am to the point where I've dropped around 40kg-45kg (90-100lbslbs) and have maintained it for a while with some improvements over my body composition over time, while increasing fitness and strength.  I look okay but my stomach area still see effects of my 28 years or so of obesity.  I've been eating pretty shit since mid December, but not over eaten so I haven't increased in weight.  However I'm finding myself substituting proper meals for shit food and my beloved donuts and ice cream.  I'm finding I'm substituting calories more and more and because I'm pretty smart about it, maintaining my weight makes it more tempting to keep doing it.

I've decided for no reason, to try and completely cut all the crap and try and finally rid the excess fat on my stomach area.  I'm giving myself 3 months to achieve an outcome hopefully.  Looking at somewhat of a keto based diet but maybe more balanced between protein and fat.  It's the morning of day 3 and I'm kind of struggling.  I feel bloated from what I think is too much protein and my toilet habits have taken a hit.  Relying on shakes and more meat is hard to adjust to, and I really need to up my water intake.  Nuts and peanut butter seem like they will be a staple too.  I know I have to cut the shakes and have more proper meals with more fat, but time is tricky and I struggle with food prep.  It's only day 3 but feeling already I'll need to add more fatty fish perhaps like salmon over steak.  It's quite limiting once you start really. 

One thing I'd love to improve is sleep.  In my quieter season when I was starting later, the extra sleep seem to do wonders.  Super determined to try and get the body fat down though.

Nice man! Sounds like you're motivated. The big thing I'd say I learned from keto is that it worked but my athletic performance took a hit (both in intensity and endurance of weight lifting and running). So if I were to do it again, I'd probably only go for a month, or two months tops. Good luck to you, let us know how it goes!

@cramx3 This video's video description links to a bunch of studies that validates the effectiveness of low-carb diets for weight loss.

Thanks mate.  Yeah, motivation is definitely not an issue for me.  With the athletic performance, I was already feeling weaker on day 2 haha.  Yesterday afternoon was a tough workout.  I'll see how today goes.  The weather and getting up at 4am and working 12 hours isn't optimal either, but a bit of extra pre-workout might do the trick. 

[Podaar]

Do you have any cheats or refeeds mate?

I avoid them, to be honest. I tend to go the other way and go with intermittent fasting. Still, if an occasional peanut butter M&M (or two) happened to be within arms reach I enjoy it without worry. One the advantages I have over ya'll is a partner (Mrs. P) who enjoys recipe hunting and making keto goodies. Now she and I always share meal making (and clean up), but she makes treats during the day while I'm gone. The treats aren't generally my thing, but it is nice when an evening craving hits me to have a square of (I kid you not) keto toffee.

I don't have the energy issue because I'm not involved in the exercise phase of this thread...at least not in the way you folks talk about exercise.

Sounds like your making some good progress.

I am, I am. Kinda plateaued for a few weeks around the holidays, but I'm back to melting away. Hit a new milestone yesterday, so I'm excited to see it continue.

[Podaar]

I'm not interested in keto unless science showed it made a significant dent in belly fat.

The science is clear, putting your body into a state of ketosis will burn any fat you have. It has to, for the energy, it doesn't have a choice.

[cramx3]

I'm not interested in keto unless science showed it made a significant dent in belly fat.

The science is clear, putting your body into a state of ketosis will burn any fat you have. It has to, for the energy, it doesn't have a choice.

I understand, any low calorie diet will kill any body fat, I'm only talking specifcally belly fat though.  If there was a diet that did ONLY that, I may be interested.

[jingle.boy]

It is scientifically impossible to spot reduce fat.

[TAC]

Reading all this, I feel like a fat slob.

One the advantages I have over ya'll is a partner (Mrs. P) who enjoys recipe hunting

Huge advantage.