The Official Exercise/Fitness Thread v. Run Forest, Run!

[gmillerdrake]

1/2-2 hours before the run at least sounds reasonable.

And I suppose Sports Beans can be replaced by any suitable sports gel food? Tested during training before the actual big race of course. I'm not sure I can find the exact same brand here.

It's just what I've found that works for 'me'. I'm accustomed to it and really just keep the habit as it's not let me down yet. But, I don't have a fast pace either....if that even makes a difference. I rely heavily on the Sports Beans while in progress as I do find they help 'me'.

I mean, you'll have to define "fast". I'll probably be aiming for under 2 hours / 5.40 per km.

You don’t want to try any new ‘in race’ energy supplements during the actual race for sure. That’s all tested and tried prior to race day.


And, my trail run pace is relatively slow. Anywhere from a 9:30-12:00 minute mile depending on the race. This Sundays trail half is brutal as far as elevation change so I’m sure I’ll be around a 11:30-12:00 average

[gmillerdrake]

This Sundays trail half is brutal as far as elevation change so I’m sure I’ll be around a 11:30-12:00 average

The trail half I'm running this Sunday is called the 'Quivering Quads'    Nothing but hills through Quiver River State Park

[Evermind]

The trail half I'm running this Sunday is called the 'Quivering Quads'    Nothing but hills through Quiver River State Park

Yeah that's a no for me so far. Maybe in a few years after/if I finish a flat half-marathon and a marathon. Looks brutal.

[wolfking]

If you support with electrolytes properly during the activity, you can get by for 60-90 minutes fasted. Beyond that you're going to have performance issues without the energy (i.e. calorie) intake.

I intermittent fast with an eating window of 1pm-9pm, but I suspend my fasting on days when I have an  endurance workout planned for the morning. I don't want to plan my workouts around my eating schedule, and I found myself just too gassed on long rides if I don't eat. Gary's advice is sound, I think.

Pretty much.  I've added electrolytes in the mornings and it's helped a lot, as I don't like eating beforehand.  With work I haven't really gone for many long runs lately though.

[wolfking]

1/2-2 hours before the run at least sounds reasonable.

And I suppose Sports Beans can be replaced by any suitable sports gel food? Tested during training before the actual big race of course. I'm not sure I can find the exact same brand here.

It's just what I've found that works for 'me'. I'm accustomed to it and really just keep the habit as it's not let me down yet. But, I don't have a fast pace either....if that even makes a difference. I rely heavily on the Sports Beans while in progress as I do find they help 'me'.

I mean, you'll have to define "fast". I'll probably be aiming for under 2 hours / 5.40 per km.

Is this for the half marathon?  That's a solid time to aim for straight up, depending on elevation too I guess.  I think the first long run I did past 20km was around that pace which I think is solid.

I've really plateaued with my running but life and work just gets in the way.  My goal at the start of the year was a half at under 5:00/km.  I've actually gone backwards.  Too much daily volume and 75 hour work weeks though will do that.

[Evermind]

Is this for the half marathon?  That's a solid time to aim for straight up, depending on elevation too I guess.  I think the first long run I did past 20km was around that pace which I think is solid.

It is, I think 5:40 is reasonable if I train well enough. I did my 13k-ish run at 5:40, I think I might be able to keep it up after basically 22 weeks of training.

Electrolytes as in drinks like Gatorade and such, or do you mean something else? I'm really a newbie at this eating/drinking for runs aspect.

[SchecterShredder]

Yes, like Gatorade.  Personally, i don't use Gatorade or Powerade though.  Too many calories and too much sugar. Here in North America we have a brand called Bio-Steel, and their electrolyte mix is almost no calories or sugar and plenty of sodium. The salt is the important part for electrolyte replacement. Unless you somehow don't sweat at all,  in which case it doesn't matter.

Gatorade etc. is good if you're also using it for calorie replacement during exercise vs. gels, but I prefer food vs. Liquid cals when doing endurance workouts.  Also, i can get better carbs from food. The carbs in Gatorade are basically all sugar.  Last point on why i don't prefer Gatorade,  even for cal replacement,  is that i often don't need that much liquid. A bottle of Gatorade is about 250cal vs. a Clif Bar @260. The Clif has more and better carbs, and isn't half a litre of fluids.

Moral of the story: go with what works for you

[Evermind]

I never drank Gatorade/Powerade or any of that in my life so I guess I'll just have find out what works for me through trial and error

[Podaar]

Stoli

[Evermind]

Stoli

I tried it once and it's utter shit. Maybe you guys have a good export version of it, I dunno.

[wolfking]

Is this for the half marathon?  That's a solid time to aim for straight up, depending on elevation too I guess.  I think the first long run I did past 20km was around that pace which I think is solid.

It is, I think 5:40 is reasonable if I train well enough. I did my 13k-ish run at 5:40, I think I might be able to keep it up after basically 22 weeks of training.

Electrolytes as in drinks like Gatorade and such, or do you mean something else? I'm really a newbie at this eating/drinking for runs aspect.

Nice goal mate.  Get after it.

I use an electrolyte powder too.  Works better for me than gatorade and works out way less expensive.

[gmillerdrake]

So, I finished the Trail Half in 2hrs 40 minutes.....averaged out to a 12:17 pace. Pretty much what I thought it'd be.

[/i][/size]
 This Sundays trail half is brutal as far as elevation change so I’m sure I’ll be around a 11:30-12:00 average

What made it that much more difficult was that it was extremely muddy. The area got a couple inches of rain over last Thurs/Fri and one of the popular uses for the trails at this particular state park is horseback riding. So....those horse tracks filling with water and what not....man, it was a slick go in a lot of places.

But I did accomplish my two goals.....finish the race and don't get hurt     Was a beautiful morning also, great running weather....and just physically 'felt' good all in all.

[SchecterShredder]

So, I finished the Trail Half in 2hrs 40 minutes.....averaged out to a 12:17 pace. Pretty much what I thought it'd be.

[/i][/size]
 This Sundays trail half is brutal as far as elevation change so I’m sure I’ll be around a 11:30-12:00 average

What made it that much more difficult was that it was extremely muddy. The area got a couple inches of rain over last Thurs/Fri and one of the popular uses for the trails at this particular state park is horseback riding. So....those horse tracks filling with water and what not....man, it was a slick go in a lot of places.

But I did accomplish my two goals.....finish the race and don't get hurt     Was a beautiful morning also, great running weather....and just physically 'felt' good all in all.

Well done! Trail running is next level compared to street running. Kudos to you, good sir.

[gmillerdrake]

Well done! Trail running is next level compared to street running. Kudos to you, good sir.

Thank you!!


So, I've ran this race (9) times....it's a challenging trail run but the satisfaction of completing it makes it worth it. I've kind of developed a compulsive habit of just signing up for it and 'forcing' myself to run it each spring to try and stay in some sort of shape. I keep a record of each year in my phone notes. Here is my history on this particular race.

Quivering Quads Trail Half - Cuivre River State Park

2012 - 2hrs 18min  / 10:33 pace - perfect conditions. Dry, sunny...wonderful day
2013 - 2hrs 34min / 11:49 pace - Literal Thunderstorm the entire race. The later runners had a shortened course due to the creek flash flooding.
2014 - 2hrs 43min / There was about 3" of snow and ice on the course. Very difficult run
2015 - 2hrs 52min / 2-3" of snow and ice, VERY cold out and I hadn't trained all that well. Was pretty 'heavy' for my frame at the time.
2016 - Didn't sign up in time. Being a state park there are limited participants (usually 300-400) and it fills up within a day or two. I dilly dollied around and it filled up.
2017 - 2hrs 19min / 10:39 pace - perfect conditions. Dry, sunny...great morning to run.
2018 - 2hrs  32 min / 11:40 pace - mix of melting snow/ice....very muddy
2019 - 1hr 50min / 11:04 pace - very muddy, course was shortened to 10 miles due to creek flooding 15ft over banks
2020 - 2hrs 45min / 12:38 pace - muddy and icy...slick run
2021 - 2hrs 40min / 12:17 pace - raining and muddy
2022 - Missed the race. Hockey team I coach had a tournament championship game that day. We Won!!!
2023 - 2hrs 40 min / 12:17 pace - Very muddy course

[wolfking]

So, I finished the Trail Half in 2hrs 40 minutes.....averaged out to a 12:17 pace. Pretty much what I thought it'd be.

[/i][/size]
 This Sundays trail half is brutal as far as elevation change so I’m sure I’ll be around a 11:30-12:00 average

What made it that much more difficult was that it was extremely muddy. The area got a couple inches of rain over last Thurs/Fri and one of the popular uses for the trails at this particular state park is horseback riding. So....those horse tracks filling with water and what not....man, it was a slick go in a lot of places.

But I did accomplish my two goals.....finish the race and don't get hurt     Was a beautiful morning also, great running weather....and just physically 'felt' good all in all.

Well done! Trail running is next level compared to street running. Kudos to you, good sir.

Agree.  I struggle up a slight incline on the streets let alone some of the trail stuff Gary would be doing.

[Harmony]

Do any of you use Creatine?  I just started a week ago after my trainer recommended it.  I also looked into some science that suggests people who use it can have the added benefit of reduced depression.

I do feel a bit stronger during my workouts but honestly that can just be newbie gains and weight loss more than the Creatine.  I'm not feeling much difference in mood.

My only concern is what happens when/if I stop taking it?  Will there be some sort of a withdrawal or loss of strength associated with that?

[wolfking]

Do any of you use Creatine?  I just started a week ago after my trainer recommended it.  I also looked into some science that suggests people who use it can have the added benefit of reduced depression.

I do feel a bit stronger during my workouts but honestly that can just be newbie gains and weight loss more than the Creatine.  I'm not feeling much difference in mood.

My only concern is what happens when/if I stop taking it?  Will there be some sort of a withdrawal or loss of strength associated with that?

Out of curiosity, what were his reasons on making you take it?

[Harmony]

Do any of you use Creatine?  I just started a week ago after my trainer recommended it.  I also looked into some science that suggests people who use it can have the added benefit of reduced depression.

I do feel a bit stronger during my workouts but honestly that can just be newbie gains and weight loss more than the Creatine.  I'm not feeling much difference in mood.

My only concern is what happens when/if I stop taking it?  Will there be some sort of a withdrawal or loss of strength associated with that?

Out of curiosity, what were his reasons on making you take it?

Creatine improves strength, lean muscle mass, and shortens recovery time post exercise.  Our bodies make creatine naturally but generally not enough to benefit most people.  In that sense, it is like Vitamin D - most people have suboptimal levels and should take a supplement.

[wolfking]

Yeah, I know what it is, I was just curious why it was recommended to you.  If there was a specific reason.   I took it once for a while and personally didn't notice a thing.

[WilliamMunny]

In my experience, the effectiveness of creatine (or any other supplement like whey protein powder) is really only noticed when paired with heavy lifting.

Now, I have no idea what your health goals are or who the trainer in question is, but I do know a thing or three about this space, and I cannot fathom recommending someone take creatine unless they are looking to add some serious muscle mass via a 'heavy' (i.e., deadlifts, compound lifts, etc.), disciplined lifting routine.

Really, for the vast majority of people, simply adding a bit more lean protein (chicken, chicken, chicken) to your diet will satisfy all of your nutritional needs when it comes to your fitness goals.

Supplements are hella expensive, and sadly, I feel like the industry surrounding them has created this allure that leads to overuse and over-recommendation.

Just my admittedly uninformed two cents

[jjrock88]

I noticed absolutely zero benefits when I took creatine.  Like Will said, increase protein.

[WilliamMunny]

I should add, in an effort to answer Harmony's original question: no, if you stop taking it, in my experience, there is no 'withdrawal,' at least, not in the traditional sense.

If, after months of taking creatine, you are eating enough lean protein (say, 1 gram per lb of bodyweight), and you are hitting the weights hard (and staying away from processed sugars), I suspect you will only continue to see gains.

That all said, I would humbly suggest you not do any of those things. NO ONE should just jump into heavy weights (not that you are, but just in general). Again, if you are currently working your way through a balanced exercise regiment and maintaining a strict diet (diet is 95% of any successful exercise gains), then supplements are really just not necessary.

Trust me, I've spent more than I care to admit over the years on jugs and jars of all sorts of things, and at the end of the day, nothing has worked better than simple clean eating and lots of sweat.

For the record, I'm 42 and still workout an hour or so a day, six days a week (DON'T NEGLECT REST!)

[SchecterShredder]

Agree about the creatine being unnecessary unless you're on a serious muscle gain program. That being said,  i don't know anything about whether it can help reduce depression. I used it a lot when i was younger (18-20 y/o) and saw massive gains, but i couldn't say how much was the creatine helping or simply tons of training.

As for protein supplements, they're almost necessary depending on your fitness goals. If you're trying to gain muscle vs. maintain what you have,  it's very difficult to get enough protein from natural food sources (for a 195lb man, at least). For me to hit my protein target I'd need to eat chicken twice per day,  half a dozen eggs for breakfast, and drink a bunch of milk during day. It's far easier to add a couple scoops of whey into my day. When you run the math on the cost chicken per gram of protein  vs. the whey i use, it's almost exactly even.  Whey is just far more convenient.

Then again, i lift 4x per week with the specific goal of gaining muscle (which is admittedly hampered by my love of endurance cardio). My training likely falls into the category of "paired with heavy lifting".

[Harmony]

Thanks guys.  I am lifting 3 days/week.  I wouldn't say "heavy lifting" but I'm working my way upwards.

I am very cognizant of the "supplement selling" part of the health/fitness industry and the only other supplement I take outside of protein shakes is Vitamin D.  My trainer is not selling me anything (other than my work out plan and his time).  It actually has been recommended to me by numerous people - some of whom are registered dieticians.  What sold me on trying it is the research - albeit limited so far - that creatine supplements can improve mood and cognitive function.  The fact that it is safe for my body with only very minor (initial water retention) side effects is a huge plus for me.

I guess we'll see how my job as guinea pig goes!  Am am - for the most part - hitting my protein goals. 

I am happy to hear that there were no noticeable withdrawal effects.

And yes, rest is very important.  I sleep pretty well most days and find taking at least 2 rest days a week to be my preference.

[Herrick]

Herrick has acquired The Elden Choad. After a couple restarts, I decided to play as a Confessor because I think it would be cool to use magic and melee. Any tips would be appreciated. The only Souls game I got far into and beat is Dark Souls but I never used magic.

[wolfking]

Now, I have no idea what your health goals are or who the trainer in question is, but I do know a thing or three about this space, and I cannot fathom recommending someone take creatine unless they are looking to add some serious muscle mass via a 'heavy' (i.e., deadlifts, compound lifts, etc.), disciplined lifting routine.

Really, for the vast majority of people, simply adding a bit more lean protein (chicken, chicken, chicken) to your diet will satisfy all of your nutritional needs when it comes to your fitness goals.

Supplements are hella expensive, and sadly, I feel like the industry surrounding them has created this allure that leads to overuse and over-recommendation.

Just my admittedly uninformed two cents

Yeah, this is kind of what I wanted to say.  This is bang on.

[wolfking]

Herrick has acquired The Elden Choad. After a couple restarts, I decided to play as a Confessor because I think it would be cool to use magic and melee. Any tips would be appreciated. The only Souls game I got far into and beat is Dark Souls but I never used magic.

[wolfking]

Agree about the creatine being unnecessary unless you're on a serious muscle gain program. That being said,  i don't know anything about whether it can help reduce depression. I used it a lot when i was younger (18-20 y/o) and saw massive gains, but i couldn't say how much was the creatine helping or simply tons of training.

As for protein supplements, they're almost necessary depending on your fitness goals. If you're trying to gain muscle vs. maintain what you have,  it's very difficult to get enough protein from natural food sources (for a 195lb man, at least). For me to hit my protein target I'd need to eat chicken twice per day,  half a dozen eggs for breakfast, and drink a bunch of milk during day. It's far easier to add a couple scoops of whey into my day. When you run the math on the cost chicken per gram of protein  vs. the whey i use, it's almost exactly even.  Whey is just far more convenient.

Then again, i lift 4x per week with the specific goal of gaining muscle (which is admittedly hampered by my love of endurance cardio). My training likely falls into the category of "paired with heavy lifting".

I was a sucker for supplements early on.  I'd put more work into buying them and trying new things than I did eating right and working out.  Was stupid, as Will said, once I started just eating right and focusing on my training, results came.  I've never stopped using whey protein though.  I agree, sometimes trying to eat so much protein day in day out just backs me up eventually and I end up eating less.  Can easily get 40g of protein from an easy delicious shake.  Add some milk and peanut butter and boom, you've got something sweet you can enjoy without breaking the calorie bank.

[SchecterShredder]

Agree about the creatine being unnecessary unless you're on a serious muscle gain program. That being said,  i don't know anything about whether it can help reduce depression. I used it a lot when i was younger (18-20 y/o) and saw massive gains, but i couldn't say how much was the creatine helping or simply tons of training.

As for protein supplements, they're almost necessary depending on your fitness goals. If you're trying to gain muscle vs. maintain what you have,  it's very difficult to get enough protein from natural food sources (for a 195lb man, at least). For me to hit my protein target I'd need to eat chicken twice per day,  half a dozen eggs for breakfast, and drink a bunch of milk during day. It's far easier to add a couple scoops of whey into my day. When you run the math on the cost chicken per gram of protein  vs. the whey i use, it's almost exactly even.  Whey is just far more convenient.

Then again, i lift 4x per week with the specific goal of gaining muscle (which is admittedly hampered by my love of endurance cardio). My training likely falls into the category of "paired with heavy lifting".

I was a sucker for supplements early on.  I'd put more work into buying them and trying new things than I did eating right and working out.  Was stupid, as Will said, once I started just eating right and focusing on my training, results came.  I've never stopped using whey protein though.  I agree, sometimes trying to eat so much protein day in day out just backs me up eventually and I end up eating less.  Can easily get 40g of protein from an easy delicious shake.  Add some milk and peanut butter and boom, you've got something sweet you can enjoy without breaking the calorie bank.

Pretty much. My current philosophy is hit my protein target and keep exercising regularly. Everything else basically takes care of itself. I've also found that by hitting my target, which does take some degree of effort, I'm eating a little more often and never hungry. It's been quite pleasant. Mind you, this is all going to fall apart once outdoor cycling season starts (my work commute doesn't really count). I just love my bike too much, and will undoubtedly shift to 5x per week rides lol.

[wolfking]

Agree about the creatine being unnecessary unless you're on a serious muscle gain program. That being said,  i don't know anything about whether it can help reduce depression. I used it a lot when i was younger (18-20 y/o) and saw massive gains, but i couldn't say how much was the creatine helping or simply tons of training.

As for protein supplements, they're almost necessary depending on your fitness goals. If you're trying to gain muscle vs. maintain what you have,  it's very difficult to get enough protein from natural food sources (for a 195lb man, at least). For me to hit my protein target I'd need to eat chicken twice per day,  half a dozen eggs for breakfast, and drink a bunch of milk during day. It's far easier to add a couple scoops of whey into my day. When you run the math on the cost chicken per gram of protein  vs. the whey i use, it's almost exactly even.  Whey is just far more convenient.

Then again, i lift 4x per week with the specific goal of gaining muscle (which is admittedly hampered by my love of endurance cardio). My training likely falls into the category of "paired with heavy lifting".

I was a sucker for supplements early on.  I'd put more work into buying them and trying new things than I did eating right and working out.  Was stupid, as Will said, once I started just eating right and focusing on my training, results came.  I've never stopped using whey protein though.  I agree, sometimes trying to eat so much protein day in day out just backs me up eventually and I end up eating less.  Can easily get 40g of protein from an easy delicious shake.  Add some milk and peanut butter and boom, you've got something sweet you can enjoy without breaking the calorie bank.

Pretty much. My current philosophy is hit my protein target and keep exercising regularly. Everything else basically takes care of itself. I've also found that by hitting my target, which does take some degree of effort, I'm eating a little more often and never hungry. It's been quite pleasant. Mind you, this is all going to fall apart once outdoor cycling season starts (my work commute doesn't really count). I just love my bike too much, and will undoubtedly shift to 5x per week rides lol.

I think that's as simple as you can make it to be honest.  I mentioned before, I got caught up in all the numbers and the supplements and all the bullshit I lost focus on just eating right with highish protein and training my ass off.  People really do over complicate it and especially for newbies, it's daunting and it's made way more complicated then it needs to be.

I too have changed my diet up and need to eat a little more and I times I still lose weight.  Some days too it's a struggle to eat as much as I need of the right foods but that's where the whey comes in.

Looking forward to what's coming up for you mate.  Hoping I can fully recover this leg and start getting some longer runs in myself again soon now summer is almost over.

[jjrock88]

Wolfarama is right like usual besides listening to cookie monster bullshit.

[Herrick]

Herrick has acquired The Elden Choad. After a couple restarts, I decided to play as a Confessor because I think it would be cool to use magic and melee. Any tips would be appreciated. The only Souls game I got far into and beat is Dark Souls but I never used magic.

Yeah wrong thread. Sorry about that 

[wolfking]

Herrick has acquired The Elden Choad. After a couple restarts, I decided to play as a Confessor because I think it would be cool to use magic and melee. Any tips would be appreciated. The only Souls game I got far into and beat is Dark Souls but I never used magic.

Yeah wrong thread. Sorry about that 

I tried to read it a few times and come up with something to help you but I got nothing!

Wolfarama is right like usual besides listening to cookie monster bullshit.

 

[Tomislav95]

I didn't have time to read everything but regarding creatine, it takes a few weeks of consistent dosing for it to start working. It is not like, a replacement for caffeine to give us some kick before workout said that, I was taking it consistently when I was doing more strength work and I didn't feel anything but that may be due to my lack of sleep/rest

Right now, I'm preparing for a half-marathon in my city. A year ago it was my first ever half-marathon and I didn't know what I was doing and didn't prepare too well. But still it was great to run through the city this time around I've been consistent, following a plan so I hope I will be able to reach my goal of 1:45. But the proper hard training for me start in a week and a half so I will be able to better assess if that goal is possible, everything so far was training for a real training

[wolfking]

Looking forward to following mate.