Are the 2015 European summer tour venues smaller than usual?

[Johnny Swift]

...I've been seeing a few photos that seem like they're playing smaller venues on this run.

If so, why? Is it because they aren't directly supporting an album?

[Mladen]

They've apparently been playing to smaller crowds this time around. There was plenty more people in Gasometer last year than it was a few days ago. I figure it's because the tickets for festivals are expensive, the bands play shorter sets so some fans figure it's not worth the money. I also guess it's easier to get the fans excited by putting out new music than by playing only old stuff.

[cramx3]

I saw that same picture on FB and was wondering the same thing.

[?]

The upcoming Helsinki show was supposed to take place at the Ice Hall where they usually play, but it was downgraded to the House of Culture, whose capacity is 25% of that of the Ice Hall.

I guess some people just don't care about the openers or don't feel like attending a festival is worth it for 1,5 hours of DT. It could also be that they're waiting for DT to come back next year with a longer show or don't know this is a 30th anniversary tour and not a third leg in support of DT12. I remember the anniversary theme wasn't official until after plenty of shows had already been announced.

[Octavarious]

I think this assumption is quite correct in general. In Rome the 2015 location is a fraction of the 2014 in terms of space but you see and hear much better... So maybe in some cases quality (and higher ticket costs) vs quantity.
That said, next sunday location in Tuscany is somewhere they played already 12 years ago (JP got a birthday cake in his face by MP) and a lovely set for nice pictures - a Medieval Square with a Cathedral and Steeple of the XIII Century... And tickets are average priced - 40 euro but no seat nr you go wherever you find place... Only standing under of stage, and seated on one side and at the back of standings... Not sure how many olaces in all, not more than 5000 I think.

[Setlist Scotty]

Having not been to any of the shows nor familiar with the venues, I couldn't say, but judging by the general comments and even the occasions where the venue has been downgraded, it definitely is surprising. I think I posted about this some time ago, but I have to wonder if DT's popularity is beginning to fade a bit, and that it's not just fans skipping the festival shows. I was in a conversation with a huge DT friend that lives in the Netherlands, and he was telling me about how DT always headlined the Bospop festival whenever they played it. This year, they were shocked (as was I when he told me) for Steven Wilson to headline over them! Now that's just one show, but the fact that they're playing smaller venues than they previously did in the past makes me wonder and a bit concerned.

[DreamerTV]

Yes they are.
And that it was going to be a strange tour was clear since the beginning.
I mean, lots of gigs presented as festivals were just concerts with a couple of opening acts.
Still, very poor communication by DT social media resulted in a wasted opportunity to take advantage of the 30th anniversary tour thing (at least for this summer european leg).
Plus, they really have saturated the market. They were in Italy last year both in winter and summer (7 concerts in total), so they were in other coutries in Europe. But nothing new to offer.
So, given that the fans who are willing to go to every gig DT play in their country are a very little portion of the total fans of the band, why some casual fans is supposed to go to the same concert once every 6 months?

[Johnny Swift]

Thanks for the responses guys!

Very insightful.

Interesting also how they're not talking on Facebook about the album they're supposedly making. There was a bit of stuff back in January and a few of JR's surreal selfies but that's it.

I guess that's a discussion for another board though! I'll just go back to lurking...

[cramx3]

Yes they are.
And that it was going to be a strange tour was clear since the beginning.
I mean, lots of gigs presented as festivals were just concerts with a couple of opening acts.
Still, very poor communication by DT social media resulted in a wasted opportunity to take advantage of the 30th anniversary tour thing (at least for this summer european leg).
Plus, they really have saturated the market. They were in Italy last year both in winter and summer (7 concerts in total), so they were in other coutries in Europe. But nothing new to offer.
So, given that the fans who are willing to go to every gig DT play in their country are a very little portion of the total fans of the band, why some casual fans is supposed to go to the same concert once every 6 months?

Id say a completely different setlist is something to offer, but I agree about the communication.  It very well seems like DT has not been vocal to their fans the entire 2015 year with regards to the new album and the tour.  If the band isn't going to advertise itself then its hard for fans to know whats going on or to get excited.

[mikeyd23]

This has been the least I've paid attention to a DT tour since becoming a fan over 12 years ago. And that's honestly not because DT doesn't interest me anymore. I am a fan of the post-MP lineup and albums. They just didn't seem to hype the tour at all, and with their silence about the new album, this tour just kinda happened; one day it wasn't the next day it was... So I think its a combination of other fans maybe feeling the same way and the fact that its not a headlining tour, more festival style, and maybe because there is no new album to support.

The big indicator will be how the world tour to support the new album goes in 2016. If venues are downgraded to smaller ones on that tour, and attendance is bad then I'd start wondering about their audience shrinking a noticeable amount.

[?]

They just didn't seem to hype the tour at all, and with their silence about the new album, this tour just kinda happened; one day it wasn't the next day it was...

Yeah, I understand the media silence when it comes to the new album, but I think they could've created a lot more buzz for this tour. Apart from occasional interviews or FB posts by some of the band members I don't recall any kind of official 30th anniversary tour announcement.

Yes they are.
And that it was going to be a strange tour was clear since the beginning.
I mean, lots of gigs presented as festivals were just concerts with a couple of opening acts.
Still, very poor communication by DT social media resulted in a wasted opportunity to take advantage of the 30th anniversary tour thing (at least for this summer european leg).
Plus, they really have saturated the market. They were in Italy last year both in winter and summer (7 concerts in total), so they were in other coutries in Europe. But nothing new to offer.
So, given that the fans who are willing to go to every gig DT play in their country are a very little portion of the total fans of the band, why some casual fans is supposed to go to the same concert once every 6 months?

True, this is the 3rd European leg within the last 2 years. I'll happily go to see my favorite bands live as often as possible (provided that the setlist is different enough from last time), but not everyone is interested in seeing DT every time they visit their country/city.

[KevShmev]

The lack of buzz definitely is a large contributing factor here.  I can't even remember when it was announced that this summer's tour was a 30th anniversary tour of sorts, but it seemed like an afterthought.

[ResultsMayVary]

The lack of buzz definitely is a large contributing factor here.  I can't even remember when it was announced that this summer's tour was a 30th anniversary tour of sorts, but it seemed like an afterthought.

I agree with Kev here. I think the World Tour following the new album will do much better than this tour considering the amount of promotion and marketing Roadrunner puts in on the new DT records. It felt like this tour was rushed out without any real announcement (basically a few off-handed comments on social media).

[Johnny Swift]

Seems the shows are a bit bigger now!

Courtesy of JP's instagram.

[?]

That's from Bang Your Head festival in Germany, where DT weren't headlining.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

[cramx3]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

Are those European festivals though?  I know in the US, when they have done summer tours that has been the case sometimes.  I've seen it first hand in NJ.

[DreamerTV]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

If i'm not wrong those lines refers to the Gigantour (so, a touring festival), which saw DT co-headlining with Megadeath. And it was after Octavarium was released.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

If i'm not wrong those lines refers to the Gigantour (so, a touring festival), which saw DT co-headlining with Megadeath. And it was after Octavarium was released.

I feel like I would have remembered if it was Gigantour, but that's very possible. I don't recall the exact time and place of the tour it was referencing. Now that I think about it, I think there was a line about a show in Florida...

[As I Am]

Having not been to any of the shows nor familiar with the venues, I couldn't say, but judging by the general comments and even the occasions where the venue has been downgraded, it definitely is surprising. I think I posted about this some time ago, but I have to wonder if DT's popularity is beginning to fade a bit, and that it's not just fans skipping the festival shows. I was in a conversation with a huge DT friend that lives in the Netherlands, and he was telling me about how DT always headlined the Bospop festival whenever they played it. This year, they were shocked (as was I when he told me) for Steven Wilson to headline over them! Now that's just one show, but the fact that they're playing smaller venues than they previously did in the past makes me wonder and a bit concerned.

I feel their popularity is more than "fading a bit"......I think it's in a semi-free fall! They are still much more popular in Europe than in the States, and by the looks of things, Europe is starting to wane as well. If "something" doesn't change soon, they'll be back to playing "clubs" in North America as in pre-2002!

[cramx3]

Having not been to any of the shows nor familiar with the venues, I couldn't say, but judging by the general comments and even the occasions where the venue has been downgraded, it definitely is surprising. I think I posted about this some time ago, but I have to wonder if DT's popularity is beginning to fade a bit, and that it's not just fans skipping the festival shows. I was in a conversation with a huge DT friend that lives in the Netherlands, and he was telling me about how DT always headlined the Bospop festival whenever they played it. This year, they were shocked (as was I when he told me) for Steven Wilson to headline over them! Now that's just one show, but the fact that they're playing smaller venues than they previously did in the past makes me wonder and a bit concerned.

I feel their popularity is more than "fading a bit"......I think it's in a semi-free fall! They are still much more popular in Europe than in the States, and by the looks of things, Europe is starting to wane as well. If "something" doesn't change soon, they'll be back to playing "clubs" in North America as in pre-2002!

The sky isnt falling that quickly.  DT hasn't toured the US in a year now and that last tour, I went to three shows and all three were packed or sold out.  Granted these aren't 18,000 seat arenas, but 2-5,000 seat music halls which is much more appropriate for DT.

[Setlist Scotty]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

If i'm not wrong those lines refers to the Gigantour (so, a touring festival), which saw DT co-headlining with Megadeath. And it was after Octavarium was released.

I feel like I would have remembered if it was Gigantour, but that's very possible. I don't recall the exact time and place of the tour it was referencing. Now that I think about it, I think there was a line about a show in Florida...

If it was a show, then it definitely was a Gigantour gig. DT's never been that big of a band in the US and the occasions where they've headlined venues that size are very rare (only 2 I can think of are the PNC in Holmdel and Jones Beach Amphitheater on Long Island) and even then they never filled them anywhere near capacity. Whereas I know Gigantour in general was booked (on average) into larger venues because it was a festival with Megadeth coheadlining and 7 other bands on the bill.

[cramx3]

Last night, I was skimming through Lifting Shadows and came across a section about DT's summer tour prior to the release of Octavarium, or something along those lines. The band were playing in a lot of near-empty venues, and at one point played at an 18,000-seat arena but only filled 3,000 seats. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me that they're playing tiny shows on the summer circuit.

If i'm not wrong those lines refers to the Gigantour (so, a touring festival), which saw DT co-headlining with Megadeath. And it was after Octavarium was released.

I feel like I would have remembered if it was Gigantour, but that's very possible. I don't recall the exact time and place of the tour it was referencing. Now that I think about it, I think there was a line about a show in Florida...

If it was a show, then it definitely was a Gigantour gig. DT's never been that big of a band in the US and the occasions where they've headlined venues that size are very rare (only 2 I can think of are the PNC in Holmdel and Jones Beach Amphitheater on Long Island) and even then they never filled them anywhere near capacity. Whereas I know Gigantour in general was booked (on average) into larger venues because it was a festival with Megadeth coheadlining and 7 other bands on the bill.

The PNC in Holmdel was what I was referencing in my posts.

[The Curious Orange]

The Ramblin' Man Fair next weekend will be the first time DT have played in the UK since I-can't-remember-when and I've NOT gone to see them (If they were headling, I'd have gone). Also, if they do play more than one date in the UK on the next tour, I'll only go see them once. After last year, my days of seeing multiple shows are over.

I go see lots of bands, and many of them are good enough to make me want to see them again. But when I see them again, I sometimes wish I hadn't bothered. They just don't do enough to make me want to see them multiple times. I suspect many DT fans have seen the band a few times, and simply feel that's enough.

I will go see DT again, but I no longer feel the need to see as many shows as possible. I suspect it's one show per tour now. Unless DT give me a reason to see multiple shows. I suspect many DT fans feel the same, hence smaller venues.

[Cyclopssss]

Well they're not touring behind a release, like the last one, but I've also the feeling this is just a sort of an 'in between' tour, just a couple of festivals for the fun of it. Interesting setlist tho.

[mikeyd23]

I will go see DT again, but I no longer feel the need to see as many shows as possible. I suspect it's one show per tour now. Unless DT give me a reason to see multiple shows. I suspect many DT fans feel the same, hence smaller venues.

If they did the rotating set lists again, would that give you the motivation to see them multiple times? Just curious. Shows are so spread out here in the states, I'm lucky to see them once a tour within reasonable driving distance, so multiple shows isn't feasible for me regardless of set lists.

[Setlist Scotty]

I will go see DT again, but I no longer feel the need to see as many shows as possible. I suspect it's one show per tour now. Unless DT give me a reason to see multiple shows. I suspect many DT fans feel the same, hence smaller venues.

If they did the rotating set lists again, would that give you the motivation to see them multiple times? Just curious. Shows are so spread out here in the states, I'm lucky to see them once a tour within reasonable driving distance, so multiple shows isn't feasible for me regardless of set lists.

I know this is directed at the Curious Orange, but I'd like to answer your question too with a resounding yes! When they did the rotating setlists, I'd catch them several times, roadtripping and even flying across country to see them. Granted, that was for the Evening With and headlining shows - when they opened for other bands or were co-headlining, I'd usually only see 1 or 2 shows within a few hours drive. But if they were to have different setlists for each show, I'd definitely go catch them at least a couple times.

Case in point: I had the chance to see both the Milwaukee and Chicago shows last year, but when I found out the setlist was static, there was zero desire to see them in Chicago. Had they at least swapped 4 or 5 songs as they did during most legs of the Dramatic tour, I would've gone to the Chicago show too.

[mikeyd23]

That's pretty much what I figured and that makes total sense. It's actually a really interesting topic, I know its been discussed A LOT on this forum, but merely from a business stand point, there are huge benefits to a rotating set list. The amount of potential revenue from the tour would certainly increase from fans like you that would be willing to go to multiple shows, it kinda seems like money thats being left on the table to a degree.

[cramx3]

Honestly, I think I'd take a tour like they did before, Evening With alongside a great set and video/lighting to go along with every song vs. rotating setlists on a shorter concert and obviously not as good of a stage show.  That last tour was just very well done and the band seemed on fire, maybe due to not rotating the setlist.

However, you are right though.  I rememeber seeing them back to back nights in NYC during the Prognation tour and they did not repeat a single song which is a reason why it was worth going both nights.

[KevShmev]

Honestly, if you look at the ADTOE set lists, the static set list on the DT12 tour, and what they are playing this summer, they have done a really good job with the set lists in the Mangini era.  By my count, they have played nearly 60 original DT songs.  Just because they aren't rotating them from night to night like they used to, doesn't mean they aren't still doing a great job.  Most of the songs being played this summer hadn't been played in the Mangini era prior to this.

[TAC]

Honestly, if you look at the ADTOE set lists, the static set list on the DT12 tour, and what they are playing this summer, they have done a really good job with the set lists in the Mangini era.  By my count, they have played nearly 60 original DT songs.  Just because they aren't rotating them from night to night like they used to, doesn't mean they aren't still doing a great job.  Most of the songs being played this summer hadn't been played in the Mangini era prior to this.

That is a great point. I especially loved those first Summer 2011 shows.

[cramx3]

Honestly, if you look at the ADTOE set lists, the static set list on the DT12 tour, and what they are playing this summer, they have done a really good job with the set lists in the Mangini era.  By my count, they have played nearly 60 original DT songs.  Just because they aren't rotating them from night to night like they used to, doesn't mean they aren't still doing a great job.  Most of the songs being played this summer hadn't been played in the Mangini era prior to this.

That is a great point. I especially loved those first Summer 2011 shows.

Yup, I completely agree.  They may not be rotating during the tour, but between tours they have done a great job of changing it up. 

[ResultsMayVary]

While I agree that they've done a great job, I wish they could go back to at least rotating an 'A' and 'B' setlist with some songs that are always played (newer songs, classics, etc) with a few different tracks each in the 'A' and 'B' sets. We've been spoiled throughout the years with the crazy rotating sets, so I'd just like to see at least some rotation return, however minor, just to avoid the static sets that are seemingly played every night.

[noxon]

Well, the summer tour is mainly a festival tour, with a shortened setlist (90 minutes), and they were aiming for unusual places. Like the shows in norway, where they played one "headlining"-show where Pagan's Mind opened for them (Langesund), and then one up far north where they shared the stage with bands that are not similar to them AT ALL (and which they recieved much negative attention for too, unfortunately) (Tromsø).

https://www.varden.no/kultur/dream-theater-plays-in-a-fishing-village-in-norway-1.1429678

But the thing is, and this is something I've noticed over the past few years - the festival circuit is becoming heavily saturated here in Europe. There are so many festivals during the summer. I had a hard time picking out which shows to go to, which festivals (if any) to attend. And honestly, the festival circuit isn't about getting the fans to come. It's about getting exposure towards people that might not know of you. The festival circuit doesn't pay nearly as well as a proper tour does. And I know that DT really liked playing at these weird places that they never got to play otherwise.

DT did peak in popularity a few years ago. They'll probably never reach that level of popularity again. And I don't think it's because of the setlist. I just don't see as much of an influx of younger fans anymore - 10 years ago at gigs there was at least 25% of the attendence filled with kids. Now, these same people may come, but there are no new "kids". The kids that get into prog nowadays tend to go for more "sexy" alternatives like Steven Wilson, Opeth, Haken, etc. You can see it online too.

But, I mean, Mike Portnoy was playing Oslo with the Neal Morse Band on monday. In a 400 person venue. That was sold out only 2 days before the actual concert date. I think July is a harsh month for concerts if you're not Paul McCartney or the like...

[KevShmev]

While I agree that they've done a great job, I wish they could go back to at least rotating an 'A' and 'B' setlist with some songs that are always played (newer songs, classics, etc) with a few different tracks each in the 'A' and 'B' sets.

Agreed.  And I think they will do rotating again, ala the ADTOE tour, depending on the format of the next album and how much of it gets played. With the DT12 tour, you had so many slots that could not be swapped out:

-IT and the Awake and Scenes spots weren't getting rotated out
-On the Backs of Angels was their Grammy-nominated song that had to be played
-None of the "hits" from DT12 weren't getting rotated out - The Enemy Inside, The Looking Glass and Along for the Ride
-Enigma Machine had the drum solo in the middle, so that wasn't going anywhere

The only other three spots were The Shattered Fortress (never played before), Trial of Tears and Breaking All Illusions.  Hard to rotate any of those out for obvious reasons - TSF was a never-played before treat; Trial of Tears was a classic being played for the first time in nearly a decade.  I guess Breaking All Illusions could have swapped out with something at the end of the first set, but considering how much that song slays live, I am glad it didn't.