Mike Mangini through the years

[erwinrafael]

While we are still waiting for updates on the new Dream Theater album, I think it would be fun to have a Mike Mangini through the years thread. Every other day or so, I will feature a Mike Mangini work (could be an album or two, or even just a song) and follow his career over the years. I would miss some of his works which I do not have access to, like his work with fellow Bostonian Sal DiFusco, his crazy Chix n Stix project, and his work with pop artist Chris Emerson. Once we get to the current day (that is, Breaking the Fourth Wall), I plan to go through the top ten (eleven) drum albums that most influenced him, as he discussed in this article, and see how it showed in his work.

To kick things off is Mike Mangini's first major work:

SET THE WORLD ON FIRE by ANNIHILATOR

Tracks played in:

Set the World on Fire
No Zone
Bats in the Belfry
Knight Jumps Queen
The Edge
Don't Bother Me
Brain Dance

This is pretty solid straight-up hard-hitting metal drumming from Mike. Nothing spectacular yet, as Mike's unique talents and orchestration skills were not really utilized. I expected some fast drumming because it is Annihilator, but it's not yet to be heard in this record. We do get to listen to good rhythm work, particularly with the bass drums, an aspect where Mike has always been excellent. Best drum work here for me is Brain Dance. Don't Bother Me is also good, especially with the way Mike maintained catchy bass drum patterns throughout the song.

Pretty good work, but this is nothing compared to his next major work (no, I am not talking Highlander III).

Updates:

Extreme's Waiting for the Punchline / Nuno's Schizophonic
Steve Vai's Fire Garden / G3 Live in Concert
Mike Keneally and Beer for Dolphins' Egg Zooming
Mullmuzzler's Keep It to Yourself
Steve Vai's The Ultra Zone / The 7th Song
Steve Vai's Alive in an Ultra World
James LaBrie's MullMuzzler 2
Tribe of Judah's Exit Elvis
Annihilator's All For You / The One
Tim Donahue's Madmen & Sinners
James LaBrie's Elements of Persuasion
Subdivisions: A Tribute to Rush
Stygia
Annihilator's Metal
Daniel Pique, Shredding the Envelope, Ethan Brosh

[bl5150]

Great album too - Annihilator's "sell out" album but a good combo of everything from melodic rock to thrash.

And of course my favourite Mangini photo moment - see if you can spot him

[OpenYourEyes311]

haha, did he not get the memo??

[Bertielee]

haha, did he not get the memo??

I like his "So what?" look, "I inverted the colours, grey top, black bottom. It's called polyclothing!"

B.Lee

[cramx3]

Following since Im not too familiar with his other work... and to say that picture is hilarious 

[Octavarious]

Yeah looks like he's desperately holding a huge piss and mumbling "cmn guysssss i cant take it anymoooore...."

[erwinrafael]

haha, did he not get the memo??

I like his "So what?" look, "I inverted the colours, grey top, black bottom. It's called polyclothing!"

B.Lee

Polyclothing. Hahaha!

[mimipetrucci]

what i like about this guy is being humble he deserve to be in d best band. being musician in band is not all about skills.  attitude is also a must.

[Madman Shepherd]

what i like about this guy is being humble he deserve to be in d best band. being musician in band is not all about skills.  attitude is also a must.

I've had the opportunity to speak with him twice and I agree completely.  Each time he acted like he was the luckiest dude in the world to get to play in DT.  He has the energy of a 20 year old too. 

[erwinrafael]

Second part:

WAITING FOR THE PUNCHLINE by EXTREME (1995)

Tracks played in:

Hip Today
Leave Me Alone
No Respect

SCHIZOPHONIC by NUNO BETTENCOURT (1996)

Tracks played in:

Swollen Princess
Fine By Me


This is special to me because I first got to know Mike Mangini through this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm3tQYXbpKo

It was shown in an obscure Philippine TV channel that shows David Letterman, and my thought then when I watched it was "Wow, there's a new Extreme record! And...they have a new drummer. He's left-handed! No, right-han...what?"

If Mangini's work in Annihilator's Set the World on Fire established him as a solid drummer, his work with Extreme showed that this young drummer is something special.  The highlight of Mangini's work during this time is the song Hip Today. You can listen to this here (mods, I hope it is okay that I give links). In keeping with Extreme's style, MM maintains a basic catchy groove throughout the song. However, his work in the instrumental is what made the drumming in this song stand out from the Extreme catalog. While maintaining a 7/4 groove, MM's bass drums highlight Pat Badger's bass riff and at the same time, starting at the 3:00 mark, his cymbals followed Nuno's lead, which goes out of the 7/4 pattern. When I first heard this, I can not make sense of how a single drummer played all that. Amazing polyrhythmic drumming.

Leave Me Alone is a joy to drum. The simple hypnotic pattern is deceptive, as random changes happen during the verses. According to an anecdote, the number of bass hits of MM and Pat Badger in the individual lines depend on how many fingers Gary Cherone would raise as they were recording it.

No Respect, on the other hand, initially felt to me like Cupid's Dead part 2, until I realized that the downbeats on the hi-hats kept on playing even as Mangini did a fast drum roll. It was my first exposure to the Mangini one-handed+double pedals drum roll.

After Extreme went on hiatus, Mike still played on the solo efforts of Nuno and, later on, Gary Cherone. Mangini's work on Nuno's Schizophonic is good fun rock drumming. He's doing Dave Grohl's drumming on a Foo Fighters record one year before Dave Grohl drummed on a Foo Fighters record. What the hell am I saying?

Mangini's stint with Extreme revealed his unique talents to a wide public, and it's not long before he caught the eye of a musical genius who likes to play alongside fellow musical geniuses.

[mimipetrucci]

what i like about this guy is being humble he deserve to be in d best band. being musician in band is not all about skills.  attitude is also a must.

I've had the opportunity to speak with him twice and I agree completely.  Each time he acted like he was the luckiest dude in the world to get to play in DT.  He has the energy of a 20 year old too.

he cries when i watched d video drum audition of him. crying tears of happiness

[King Postwhore]

This is where I met MM.  I knew they had a new drummer and heard the 3 songs on WFTP.  You could tell right away how different he was.  By seeing him live in Boston blew me away!  Holy cow what a drum set and damn!  How many arms did this guy have?!


At the end of the set they were destroying amps and their instruments for the encore "No Respect".  I had no idea at the time they were breaking up.

[Mosh]

WFTP and Schizophonic are two of my all time favorite albums. Swollen Princess is a great song.

Hip Today is a cool one too, it's worth pointing out the solo section which is in 7/4. While nothing on the level of what he's been doing with DT, you hear a bit of a polyrhythms here and get a glimpse at his unique approach to the instrument (the way he separates the four limbs). But technical stuff aside, it's just a really tight groove and a great guitar solo. Stuff like that got me excited for Mangini in DT but unfortunately he doesn't really groove that way in the band.

[erwinrafael]

Third part:

FIRE GARDEN by STEVE VAI (1996)

Tracks played in:

Bangkok
Fire Garden Suite [particularly a) Bull Whip, the end part of b) Pusa Road, and d) Taurus Bulba]

G3: LIVE IN CONCERT by G3, specifically Steve Vai (1997)

Tracks played in:

Answers
For the Love of God
The Attitude Song


Steve Vai, for me, is the artist who most understood how to best utilize Mike Mangini's talents. Mangini became part of Vai's favorite band, which included Philip Bynoe on bass and the incredible Mike Keneally on guitars and keyboards. Vai even went so far to say "It seems like any hassle I ever had in any band because of egos or whatever, just melted away when the Good Lord blessed me with this musical ensemble." And I agree. Of all the Vai band lineups, this is the one that sounded like a band, not a bunch of super-talents put together.

Anyway, Bangkok + Fire Garden Suite showed us Mangini's orchestration technique. Highlighting what Steve is doing, keeping a good rhythm, going up and down the scale, matching guitar sweeps with melodic fast drum rolls, syncing cymbals with Steve's notes. I loved this song so much that I bought a second cassette tape of this album because my first cassette tape became so worn down with too much rewinds and replays.

Mangini's work on the G3 album also showed us how good of a live drummer he is. He played Chris Frazier's parts with respect, but with his distinct enhancements, especially with the fills and the bass drums. Answers is my favorite among Mangini's work in the G3 album. So smooth and effortless! Mangini also had the distinction of playing the first recorded live version of The Attitude Song, which is one of the most live performed songs in Vai's catalog.

Mangini's stint with Vai would lead to the most ridiculous drumming in his career so far, which I will discuss in the next installment.

[bl5150]

I saw Vai live with Mangini and Keneally - one of my all time favourite gigs , even though people were passing out all around me from heat exhaustion.

[wolfking]

Fire Garden was always a fav of mine back in the day.  Those two tracks MM played on are particularly incredible.

Good performance on the G3 DVD too.

[erwinrafael]

I saw Vai live with Mangini and Keneally - one of my all time favourite gigs , even though people were passing out all around me from heat exhaustion.

Wow. What tour is this? Fire Gardrn or Ultra World?

[bl5150]

I saw Vai live with Mangini and Keneally - one of my all time favourite gigs , even though people were passing out all around me from heat exhaustion.

Wow. What tour is this? Fire Gardrn or Ultra World?

Fire Garden.  I wish now that I had taken the day off work and taken in my Ibanez JEM for him to sign at the in-store he did .

I went off Vai a bit after this album , but no matter when I have seen him (incl G3 with JP and Satriani) he has always dominated on stage.  I'm pretty sure I really noticed Mangini properly for the first time around this time too . I was a big Annihilator/Extreme fan too , but (photo aside) he didn't stand out to me in Annihiliator and I disliked the Extreme album so much I didn't bother to listen properly

[erwinrafael]

Hahaha. I get what you mean with the Extreme thing. It took me almost a year to appreciate their new music. It's just fortunate that Mangini is in the few songs in WFTP that I immediately liked - Hip Today and Leave Me Alone.

 For Annihilator, that first album with Mangini did not do him justice. His second stint, though, is  !

[erwinrafael]

Fourth part:

SLUGGO by MIKE KENEALLY AND BEER FOR DOLPHINS (1997)

Tracks played in:

Egg Zooming


Egg Zooming is a Mangini masterpiece.

It's one of the most amazing pieces of drumming I have heard, in which I can say that I have heard drumming in this song that I never thought was possible. My words will not do justice to this piece, so I'll just post Mangini's description of what he did here:

"If there were ever a reason why I’ve practiced combining numbers from two to twenty, with and against each other, that song is the reason. I started with a rough sketch of the song but basically had to sight-read it when I did the track. Keneally walked me through each section while I created my parts in my head, and then I played him what I thought would work, and that was it. Much of it was read on the spot with the fills being improvised."

"The opening section has two bars of nineteen against four and eleven against four, with my feet playing the nineteens and elevens while my hands are subdividing the quarter notes into 3’s, 4’s, 5’s, and 7’s. In the melody section all of the polyrhythms are played with my left hand while my right hand plays an unbroken quarter-note pattern on a Zil-Bel. Before the drum solo section Keneally decided he wanted a drum fill in 7/4, so I placed four notes against the seven and put eleven notes inside each one of the four notes. In the drum solo section I had to sing the time signature changes in my head as a guide to improvise over. I created triple-layered polyrhythms in that section mainly because for the first time in my life I was allowed to express the musical ideas that I felt inside of me."

"As we were approaching the end of the song, Keneally said that if there was anything else that I hadn’t thrown in already to go ahead and go for it. It was so much fun and we were laughing like a couple of nine-year-olds. So I took a 4/4 bar and thought of it as 32/32. I took groups of thirteen notes and started on the second 32nd note, which set my pattern over the next thirty-one notes. Then I placed triplets inside each of the thirteen notes, which came out to be thirty-nine against thirty-one. When I do this type of thing I feel the notes musically and I get an image of a shape or a number, but I’m not counting while I’m playing."

And I love this blog entry of Mike Keneally on recording this piece with Mike Mangini back in 1997:

"Mike Mangini, the famous and cute drummer with the Steve Vai band, today came in and played impossible drums on "Egg-Zooming". All he had prior to today's session was a rough mix of one and a half minutes of music (the finished piece is nearly seven minutes long) and the charts I wrote during the first two tours of this year. So he was confronted with many new sections today, including a super-hyped coda which he didn't even know existed because I wrote it after I gave him his chart. To say he acquitted himself admirably is total faint praise damnation. He was magnificent. The reason he got the gig to play the song was because he walked by me while I was writing out the charts on an airplane during one of the tours, and stopped in his tracks - he could SMELL the odd subdivisions. He looked down and saw a bar which contained a 19:16 tuplet over the entire bar (played by bells and moog) while the guitars are playing a septuplet in the first beat of the bar. Mike read the bar, calculated the movements required to execute both tuplets simultaneously, and handed me back the chart with the words "Yeah. I can do that". Ladies and gentlemen, he did it.

We also ate Chinese food and I met Frank Dolan, the lanky fellow who helps Michael prepare his instructional books. Frank was there when Mike whipped out his song-ending series of nineteen-tuplets (which may not be on the album if I decide to fade the song as planned), which Mike accurately described as sounding like an Air Force bomber flying over San Diego accidentally dropped a load of bricks which burst through the ceiling of the studio and landed on his drums. The fill was immediately transferred to Double Time's answering machine, so give a call if you want to hear it."

LOL!

Coming up, Mangini's first work with a Dream Theater member, and, in my opinion, it did not really start well.

[Onno]

Following now. Wow, that Egg Zooming song really amazed me. What a masterpiece.

[erwinrafael]

Fifth Part

KEEP IT TO YOURSELF by MULLMUZZLER

Tracks played in:

His Voice
Statued
Shores of Avalon
Beelzebubba
Guardian Angel
Sacrifice
Lace
Slow Burn


This is one of my least favorite Mike Mangini drum records. For me, the drumming here sounds like a bunch of parts that sound great individually, but does not make a cohesive whole when put together. A lot of drum parts are unusually heavy in songs that do not to warrant heaviness. Indiscriminate double bass playing, which is quite uncharacteristic of MM who usually creatively uses pauses and rests in between double bass hits. The biggest offender is Statued, whose heavy intro drum riff and continuous double bass playing in the chorus always felt like it's trying to make a song "metal" just for the sake of being metal. His Voice also suffers some of the same problems, although it is a bit more cohesive and has much better orchestration. Air-drummers seem to like this song, but, for me, it's a matter of the sum being much less than its individual parts.

There is very good drumming, though, in Shores of Avalon. I love the rhythmic bass drum playing in the instrumental, and the orchestration in the whole song is good (which is the Mangini I am used to hearing). The drumming in Beelzebubba is also quite good.

A lot of the drum playing in the other songs have a "professional session musician" drum sound to them. Competent, good enough, but a bit uninspired.

I wonder if my problems with Mangini in this record is really a matter of the songs having weird musical arrangements. It's like the songs are trying to sound "metal" just because it is James LaBrie of Dream Theater. Thankfully, the second MullMuzzler record would strip itself of these pretensions to sound "metal", and the quality would greatly improve. Elements of Persuasion would return to the metal sound, but LaBrie and his band already know what they want to sound like by then.

Coming next, Mangini continues his work with Vai. This would start an amazing run of excellent drumming in different albums featuring a wide range of musical styles, which would culminate with his getting a full-time position in Berklee.

[erwinrafael]

It sure is lonely in here.

Sixth part

THE ULTRA ZONE by STEVE VAI  (1999)

Tracks played in:

Jibboom
Windows to the Soul
Here I Am

THE 7TH SONG by STEVE VAI (2000)

Tracks played in:

Christmas Time is Here (originally released in Merryx Axemas, 1997)
Boston Rain Melody


After Mangini displayed his orchestration technique in the Fire Garden Suite, his succeeding collaborations with Steve Vai revealed more facets of his playing abilities.

The first two tracks in the list are the highlights. Jibboom shows amazing non-metal speed drumming. It's happy drumming, as I always have this impression of Mangini having a big smile on his face when playing this masterpiece (and it appears that he did have a lot of fun). At the other end of the speed scale is Windows to the Soul. Mangini's 11/8 beat is minimalist, disciplined, and moody, which is exactly what the song needed. The rest of the other tracks are good, non-flashy, drum work.

What Mangini's stint with Steve Vai really showed is his range of techniques and playing styles. Vai, to me, is the artist that really understood Mike's range and exploited it.

Coming next, Mangini accompanies Vai in an ambitious project to write and record a new song in every country they would visit in their world tour. Possibly my favorite Mangini drum album just for sheer ambition, we would hear Mangini play waltz. With an accordion accompaniment.

[erwinrafael]

Anyone still reading this? It feels like updating a personal diary.    Anyway...

Seventh part:

ALIVE IN AN ULTRA WORLD by STEVE VAI (2001)

Tracks played in:

Giant Balls of Gold
Burning Rain
The Black Forest
Alive in an Ultra World
Devil's Food
Blood and Glory
Iberian Jewel
The Power of Bombos
Incantation
Light of the Moon
Babushka
Being with You (in Paris)
Principessa
Brandos Costumes (Gentle Ways)

During the 2000 world tour for the Ultra Zone album, Steve Vai conceived of a project to write a new song for every country they would visit. Steve Vai is crazy. What we got is this amazing double album of new songs composed while on tour, practiced during extended soundchecks, and recorded on the night that the song debuts onstage.

Because of the nature of how the songs were written, the playing of Mangini in this album is relatively on-point and uncomplicated in structure. The simpler song structures breathed Mangini's playing with a lot of raw improvisational  energy. The effort to write a song based on the country to which the song is dedicated to also stretched the range of styles of playing in the songs. As I said in an earlier post, Mangini plays waltz in this album, with an accordion accompanying them. He also played some metal, a lot of rock, some blues, a couple of marches, a proggy-11/8 rhythm, and a rocked-up version of Italian ballroom.

From a drumming standpoint, Iberian Jewel is tops. From the 0:54 mark onwards, it really sounds to me like a Dream Theater instrumental. Mangini's fills and the basic rhythm is killer. This is how you compose a song that would feature Mangini.

Incantation is also another good drumming piece, so much so that this is the song where Virgil Donati did his drum solos in Vai's later world tour. The 11/8 basic drum rhythm sounds like MP's drum rhythm in the instrumental section of The Dark Eternal Night, played in a more "classic rock" style. Mangini's improvs in this song exude power, instead of speed.

Devil's Food is the only song in this album which is not new. The playing is topnotch, and the interaction by the band after Vai broke a guitar string is funny. Mangini showcased speed drumming and orchestration in this song.

This is one of the few records where you can hear the "fun" factor in the songs. I always find myself smiling when listening to Vai and his band in this album having fun, making mistakes, improvising, and showing off. What a fun album. Even the audience is funny (somebody shouted "A guitar for me!" after Vai gave away a pick. LOL). This is definitely my favorite in Steve Vai's discography.

Alive in an Ultra World marks Mangini's last collaboration with Steve Vai. I hope they would get a chance to play together again because Vai brings out the "fun" side and the versatile range of Mike Mangini.

Coming next, a second round with James LaBrie, which would become a preview of things to come much later in Mangini's career.

[Sycsa]

I'm immensely enjoying this thread, especially given how slow things have been around here lately. Pls do continue.

[erwinrafael]

Thanks. 7 more parts to go before we get to his Dream Theater stint.

[bl5150]

Reading but can't contribute much.  I was a huge Vai fan up until around Fire Garden but it all got a bit too weird for me and I dropped off following closely around then.

[erwinrafael]

Reading but can't contribute much.  I was a huge Vai fan up until around Fire Garden but it all got a bit too weird for me and I dropped off following closely around then.

Try listening to some of the songs that I provided links to. Songs like Jibboom, Windows to the Soul, Iberian Jewel and Incantation are pretty accessible.

Ultra Zone is not the weird Vai, unless you find the Indian influence in The Blood and Tears weird. It's pretty much similar in structure to the Fire Garden album. However, if you are referring to the 1998 album Flex-able Leftovers, yeah, there is a reason why those songs were left out from the Flex-able album.  The Elusive Light and Sound in 2002 is not any better, too many fillers. The last two studio albums: Real Illusions - Reflections, and The Story of Light are pretty good, though.

[bl5150]

I will check out some of the stuff you suggest.   I have so much music to listen to that I'm not the most loyal supporter when an artist disappoints me a couple of times , even for my favourite artists.   I prefer Vai in the DLR band and on the slightly more commercial stuff on albums like Passion & Warfare and Alien Love Secrets.  Even Fire Garden lost me a bit , even though it has its moments.

[mikeyd23]

Great stuff man, keep going! I've been following, just haven't had the chance to post much in this thread or in general.

Keep it up!

[MarkFitDT]

dont know a lot of Mangini's pre-DT work so really enjoying reading this. Thanks!

[fischermasamune]

I'm also eagerly waiting for the next parts. I don't know much about the previous works of Mangini and I'm interested in knowing.

[devieira73]

erwinrafael, as you see, you are not alone! It's really a cool topic!
I'm curious for your next analysis. The Mullmuzzler albuns are still my favorites of him. Really very spontaneus drumming on those!

[erwinrafael]

Thanks, guys. I've been meaning to do this for quite some time now as MM's work is not really known by a lot. I hope you would get to listen to some of the Youtube videos I link to so that you would get to listen to samples of his work over the years and not just take my word for it that he has been excellent for a long time now. 

Tomorrow, I would do the MullMuzzler 2 update. Let me give an off-topic comment that this album has to be one of the best James LaBrie vocal performances. Even better than a lot of his Dream Theater work. The songs are just fit for his range and style.

[N4Player]

Fantastic thread, thanks for drawing attention to Mike's roots. I too saw Mike for the first time with Extreme in 95 and I can honestly say, it was both eye opening and jaw dropping what a drummer can bring to songs, when he is so musically aware of everything. Hearing him and Nuno Bettencourt together was something I will never forget. It is no surprise to me that DT chose him, but it's funny how the guy was in my former favourite band and is now in my current  favourite band. I will long for the lost tapes of Extreme's followup to Punchline, but I cannot think of a better place than DT for his talents to truly shine.