The DTF Old As Mold Club v. 40 IS The New 30! Kids Stay Out!

[Neon]

Also, my friend and I went to go see our other friend's band play the other night.  We all went to high school together.  The band that opened up consists of members that were apparently in some ska band in the 90s.  (I was always a metal head/prog nerd so I never really liked punk or ska, but I've since developed an appreciation for both).  Anyway, this band that was on stage invited some "old friends" up with them, and next thing I know there's ska music playing and someone started "skanking." 

And in that moment, it occurred to me:  "Everyone at this show is at least 30."  My friend and the bartender started cracking up.  And you know what?  It was really nice to not be the old chick at a show for once- something that I have noticed happening a lot more these days. 

[Orbert]

You're welcome to join.  Females are always welcome.

[Neon]

Thanks.

But everyone knows there's no such thing as chicks on the internet.   

[jingle.boy]

We fogeys make and change the rules however we see fit.  But Bob's right, we'll take any female over 20.

[tapsmiled]

43 in March and a proud member of the Old Fogey Club. I had long hair 20 years ago, and now I'm happy that the bald look is acceptable since years ago when my hair started to thin, I looked like a cancer patient and stood out like a sore thumb.

I will most definitely be a crotchety old bastard.  I have zero tolerance for kids these days, and I can't stand the "It's our time" mentality of young people today. You have to earn your time; it's not an entitlement. 

Okay, scratch "will be" from that last part and substitute "am".  Thanks.

[Cyclopssss]

Well I can always say: ´I was a Punk before you were a Punk. Or a Metalfan. Or a Rocker. Or a Mod. Or a Beatle.


 


Jesus.....

[rickhawk80]

As I bumper sticker I saw recently put it, "I may be old but I got to see all the cool bands."   

[jingle.boy]

As I bumper sticker I saw recently put it, "I may be old but I got to see all the cool bands."   

 

[King Postwhore]

I'm so old, I don't care if people see me pick my wedgie in public.  Take me as I am baby!

[Arry]

I just got Amon Amarth tix. With a seat cause I don't, won't, cant stand for 3 hours anymore...

[Prog Snob]

I just got Amon Amarth tix. With a seat cause I don't, won't, cant stand for 3 hours anymore...

Don't forget your hearing aid.   

I'm so old, I don't care if people see me pick my wedgie in public.  Take me as I am baby!

Whatever you say Mr. Petrucci.

Thanks.

But everyone knows there's no such thing as chicks on the internet.   

What do you mean?  My first 37 girlfriends were all supermodels on the internet.   

[King Postwhore]

I bet they were all shaped like hands.

My picking is sloppy like my underwear.

[Orbert]

I finally get it.

I was born and grew up in Michigan, and now live just outside Chicago, so midwest winters are a part of life.  It gets cold, it snows a lot, it's inconvenient, but it's also beautiful sometimes.  Whatever you grew up with is "normal" to you.  My parents got a condo in Florida years ago and started spending winters there.  My mom's gone now, but my dad still goes.  He's from Toronto, so he too grew up with cold snowy winters.  Moving to Florida or California or wherever, just to get away from something that's a normal part of life, just seemed like wimping out to me.

But now, I finally get it.  This winter has broken records for snowfall, consecutive subzero days, etc.  I think between being spoiled by a couple of mild winters in a row, and the fact that I'm now over 50 and had that surgery a while back, I've finally gone from "What?  This is normal.  You deal with it." to "Fuck it's cold out.  I think I'll move to Florida when I retire."  This is the first winter where, a couple of times now, I've just plain dreaded the idea of going outside.  I bundle up, I go, because you do what you gotta do, but it's just no fun.  This winter has converted me.

[CrimsonSunrise]

The older I get, the more south I want to migrate.  I grew up and live now in SoCal, and it's too cold   

[wkiml]

i'll hit the big "50" this year...feels like only yesterday i was going to clubs or bars every night of the week

I understand the whole age is just a number stufff, but when you hear "snap,crackle,pop" in the morning and it isn't your cereal bowl, you know your getting old

[Podaar]

The doc scheduled me for an anal probe next Wednesday but as if that weren't enough he's also ordered an esophageal probe too. Yes, I'll be starring in my first DP film 

[King Postwhore]

I had in my late 30's the Colonoscopy & Upper GI Endoscopy at the same time.  I was put out.


 

It was like a pig roast.  Then I woke up groggy and I was fine.

[Neon]

I finally get it.

I was born and grew up in Michigan, and now live just outside Chicago, so midwest winters are a part of life.  It gets cold, it snows a lot, it's inconvenient, but it's also beautiful sometimes.  Whatever you grew up with is "normal" to you.  My parents got a condo in Florida years ago and started spending winters there.  My mom's gone now, but my dad still goes.  He's from Toronto, so he too grew up with cold snowy winters.  Moving to Florida or California or wherever, just to get away from something that's a normal part of life, just seemed like wimping out to me.

But now, I finally get it.  This winter has broken records for snowfall, consecutive subzero days, etc.  I think between being spoiled by a couple of mild winters in a row, and the fact that I'm now over 50 and had that surgery a while back, I've finally gone from "What?  This is normal.  You deal with it." to "Fuck it's cold out.  I think I'll move to Florida when I retire."  This is the first winter where, a couple of times now, I've just plain dreaded the idea of going outside.  I bundle up, I go, because you do what you gotta do, but it's just no fun.  This winter has converted me.

The past few winters have been nothing compared to this- especially last winter- on the east coast I think we got one or two dustings of snow all season- and now this.  I still feel like this winter hasn't been as bad as it was a few years back- I spent 4 winters in PA and I feel like those were the worst 4 winters I ever endured.  But maybe because I lived in a house with a much longer driveway (so, more shoveling was needed) and I had a much longer commute to work in those days...so maybe I was just more aware of it then. 

[Prog Snob]

I remember which winter you are speaking of Neon.  It was a few years ago and it felt like it was snowing almost every day.  I was working on a construction site and because they were running out of places to put the snow finding a parking spot became more and more difficult.  I don't think this year has been as bad as that. 

[El Barto]

This has come up recently in a few threads, so I figured I'd inquire of my fellow old farts. Has anybody actually had any hearing loss more significant than the standard middle age, upper frequency loss from all the concerts we went to? Youngsters are all adamant about ear plugs because DT plays so loud, and while I won't criticize them at all for being cautious about their hearing, compared to us these kids have no idea what loud is; Dream Theater does not play loud. I know last time I had my hearing checked it was perfectly normal for a person of my age, and aside from not draining as well as they could I've got no issues with my ears at all.

Anybody here lament not wearing plugs through the 80's?

[mike099]

As I bumper sticker I saw recently put it, "I may be old but I got to see all the cool bands."   

Went to an Eagles concert this past fall in Nashville, TN and Don Henley pointed out a guy in the first row wearing a shirt with this saying.  Henley gave the guy a souvenir at the end of the show.

[King Postwhore]

This has come up recently in a few threads, so I figured I'd inquire of my fellow old farts. Has anybody actually had any hearing loss more significant than the standard middle age, upper frequency loss from all the concerts we went to? Youngsters are all adamant about ear plugs because DT plays so loud, and while I won't criticize them at all for being cautious about their hearing, compared to us these kids have no idea what loud is; Dream Theater does not play loud. I know last time I had my hearing checked it was perfectly normal for a person of my age, and aside from not draining as well as they could I've got no issues with my ears at all.

Anybody here lament not wearing plugs through the 80's?

You know, I haven't noticed myself be there's been a few shows in my lifetime (Deep Purple 1985) that destroyed my hears for days.  Maybe I just haven't noticed.

[TAC]

My right ear is much worse than my left, which is still in good shape. Not sure why that is. You would think they'd be equal. The only difference is that I have exclusively held the phone to my right ear my entire life.
If I'm in bed, if I lay with my right ear up, I can't hear the TV, but with my left, it's like three times as loud.

[El Barto]

You know, I haven't noticed myself be there's been a few shows in my lifetime (Deep Purple 1985) that destroyed my hears for days.  Maybe I just haven't noticed.

Did it fuck up your ability to type, as well? 

My right ear is much worse than my left, which is still in good shape. Not sure why that is. You would think they'd be equal. The only difference is that I have exclusively held the phone to my right ear my entire life.
If I'm in bed, if I lay with my right ear up, I can't hear the TV, but with my left, it's like three times as loud.

Close up noises like that can definitely have an effect. I remember my old man never really objected to me listening to loud music in a car or going to rock concerts, but if he could hear my headphones he'd raise hell about it. He'd been an ATC for 15 years and swears that the headphones screwed his hearing up quite a bit.

Like I said, it really seems to be long term exposure that causes most damage. Not the occasional 3 hour rock show. Again, different people are effected differently, and I've got no qualms about people being paranoid about their hearing; more power to them. I've just generally found the concerns to be a bit overblown.


edit: Looks like it didn't fuck up King's ability to proofread (after he hits submit). 

[King Postwhore]

 

Nope!  That's a whole separate issue!

[rickhawk80]

This has come up recently in a few threads, so I figured I'd inquire of my fellow old farts. Has anybody actually had any hearing loss more significant than the standard middle age, upper frequency loss from all the concerts we went to? Youngsters are all adamant about ear plugs because DT plays so loud, and while I won't criticize them at all for being cautious about their hearing, compared to us these kids have no idea what loud is; Dream Theater does not play loud. I know last time I had my hearing checked it was perfectly normal for a person of my age, and aside from not draining as well as they could I've got no issues with my ears at all.

Anybody here lament not wearing plugs through the 80's?

You know, I haven't noticed myself be there's been a few shows in my lifetime (Deep Purple 1985) that destroyed my hears for days.  Maybe I just haven't noticed.

I've been hitting concerts with some regularity since the late 70s and I certainly think concerts were louder back in the day before noise control ordinances were so strict and I have not noticed any hearing loss even though I've never worn ear plugs.   I can remember concerts in the 80s where I had diminished hearing or ringing ears for DAYS afterward and that hasn't happened in years.  The one exception was a Cult concert in a small venue last fall that didn't seem that loud while we were there, but my friends and I (all old farts) noticed that the hearing was diminished on the long drive home and my ears rang for 2 days afterward.  It kinda freaked us out because that literally has not happened to any of us in decades.

I've tried ear plugs a few times in recent years but I always end up pulling them out because it dampens and modifies the sound too much......

[El Barto]

Rock 'n' roll is supposed to be loud. And also, in some deep way which I don't quite understand, it's supposed to be offensive to people who don't like it too loud.

How can you not love Lemmy? 

[slycordinator]

The only time I've ever come away from a concert without diminished hearing and ringing was at the ADOTE show and that was because I wore earplugs; when I took them out at some point, it felt uncomfortably loud.

[El Barto]

The only time I've ever come away from a concert without diminished hearing and ringing was at the ADOTE show and that was because I wore earplugs; when I took them out at some point, it felt uncomfortably loud.

Sure, but that's not what I'm asking. What I'm wondering about is if any of us that were exposed to insanely high SPLs dozens (or in some of our cases hundreds) of times came away from it with any permanent hearing damage. I suspect that all of us that attended metal concerts in the 80's would agree that concerts now 30 years later aren't loud at all in comparison. Yet there seems to be a great deal of concern about DT causing hearing damage.

It raises other interesting points, as well. Rickhawk mentioned noise ordinances having an effect on concert volume. I'm not sure if that's the case, or whether it's just a function of PA technology making such high volumes unnecessary. Aside from concerts being not as loud nowadays, they sound tremendously better than they used to. There's the possibility that they're actually just as loud, but with the sound clarity we're getting it doesn't seem so and causes less ear ringing. I suppose it's possible that it's the opposite, though, and they sound better because they're quieter (although that would discount technological advances that are almost certainly there). It's also possible that bands are making a conscious decision to take it easy on the youngsters.

Another consideration is that there's some speculation that exposure to such SPLs will decrease the effect they have on you over time. In other words, the more times we "had our ears rung," the more it takes to do it again. Don't know if this is the case or not, although I can't come up with any explanation as to why it would be.

[chknptpie]

I'm pretty sure the loudest concert I ever went to was U2's 360. I remember my ears ringing for a few days after.

[Podaar]

My right ear is much worse than my left, which is still in good shape. Not sure why that is. You would think they'd be equal. The only difference is that I have exclusively held the phone to my right ear my entire life.
If I'm in bed, if I lay with my right ear up, I can't hear the TV, but with my left, it's like three times as loud.

A snide man would deduce that your wife must sleep to your right.

[Orbert]

The only time I've ever come away from a concert without diminished hearing and ringing was at the ADOTE show and that was because I wore earplugs; when I took them out at some point, it felt uncomfortably loud.

Sure, but that's not what I'm asking. What I'm wondering about is if any of us that were exposed to insanely high SPLs dozens (or in some of our cases hundreds) of times came away from it with any permanent hearing damage. I suspect that all of us that attended metal concerts in the 80's would agree that concerts now 30 years later aren't loud at all in comparison. Yet there seems to be a great deal of concern about DT causing hearing damage.

It raises other interesting points, as well. Rickhawk mentioned noise ordinances having an effect on concert volume. I'm not sure if that's the case, or whether it's just a function of PA technology making such high volumes unnecessary. Aside from concerts being not as loud nowadays, they sound tremendously better than they used to. There's the possibility that they're actually just as loud, but with the sound clarity we're getting it doesn't seem so and causes less ear ringing. I suppose it's possible that it's the opposite, though, and they sound better because they're quieter (although that would discount technological advances that are almost certainly there). It's also possible that bands are making a conscious decision to take it easy on the youngsters.

Another consideration is that there's some speculation that exposure to such SPLs will decrease the effect they have on you over time. In other words, the more times we "had our ears rung," the more it takes to do it again. Don't know if this is the case or not, although I can't come up with any explanation as to why it would be.

I read once that hearing loss caused by extreme volume is always partially irreversible.  That is, your ears never recover 100% from the damage they take.  Even if you get 99.9% back, there's a cumulative effect over time.  Concerts might be just as loud as they've always been, but they don't seem as loud because your ears are no longer as sensitive as they used to be.

[CrimsonSunrise]

I've been waiting for the proverbial hammer to drop with regards to hearing loss.  Between concerts, work, and very loud car stereo music for decades, I'm surprised I don't notice much loss.  Another factor for me is exostosis (surfers ear) Between surfing as a kid, and diving as an adult, my canals are getting pretty narrow.   The Doc says I'll probably have to have surgery at some point.  BUT...surprisingly, my hearing has not really decreased.  If anything, the only issue I notice is not as much a volume issue, as a clarity (understanding what was said) issue. 

[Orbert]

Maybe that's how hearing loss manifests itself sometimes.  Maybe it's more clarity than volume.  Just a guess.

[carl320]

Usually the highs are the first to diminish, which then makes the consonant sounds in words harder to hear.  People might not realize that their hearing is getting bad until they notice that people sound like they're mumbling.

Personally I try to wear earplugs at shows and band practice.  I'd wear them at work but I'm not allowed to since I drive for a living.  My hearing isn't too bad.  Sometimes I wonder how much I've lost since I can't hear my watch ticking when I put it up to my ear, but I can hear a clock from another room clearly