The Thread for Elric and all things Michael Moorcock

[The Dark Master]

I figured it would be a great idea to give Elric and Michael Moorcock their own thread, lest a certain thread in P/R derail into oblivion  , so here it is!

For those who don't know, Michael Moorcock is a British fantasy/sci-fi writer, best known for his albino anti-hero Elric of Melniboné, and his many works concerning the Eternal Champion (of which Elric himself if but one incarnation).  He is largely credited with popularizing the Law vs. Chaos duality (as opposed to Good vs. Evil) and the concept of the Multiverse in modern fiction, as well as being the creator of the eight pointed Chaos symbol that has become iconic throughout much of pop culture.

So, let's discuss all things Moorcock!

[The Dark Master]

By the way, NOT arguing with you, just thrilled that I can talk about one of my favorite fictional characters with someone who knows what the **** they are talking about.  You have no idea (or maybe you do).   I'd be all in favor of a alternative thread.

Small point:  I think it's a little misleading to say he "actively court(s) their favor when it suits him".   He doesn't really have a choice.  The gods of Law have no obligation or allegiance to Elric, but probably wouldn't answer his calls anyway.   The relationship with Arioch isn't quite so free and without strings.  Arioch is a) insane and b) his patron saint so to speak, so Elric either goes there or goes without, because it is not likely Arioch would passively allow him to curry favor from another God.  I think that happened once, in one of the later stories ("Elric At The End of Time", maybe?).    As with Stormbringer; I know of the Freud connection, I'm just not up enough on my Freud to make any use of it, but the whole concept of "balance" to me - both in terms of Law and Chaos, and in terms of the various aspects of "person" is to me a conscious move away from "choice", at least in terms of absolutes.  You can favor one aspect, but not abandon one, if that makes sense.

EDIT:  For the record, putting an 's' in brackets serves to strike out everything after. 

That is all true, although it is worth noting that Elric did call upon the help of the Elementals throughout the course of the series, and he came to rely on them with increasing frequency, particularly as the final battle for Chaos drew nearer and Arioch became much less reliable.  So the relationship between Elric and his Chaos patron did go cold at a certain point, and he sought the help of other Gods.

*SPOILERS*
Also, it's worth noting that by the time of Stormbringer, Elric is most certainly against Chaos, given that by then the forces of Chaos are marshaling behind Jagreen Lern, who is much more willing to indulge them then Elric ever was, and Elric's own priorities at that point conflict significantly with those of Arioch and the other Chaos Lords.  After the events of The Sleeping Sorceress/The Vanishing Tower, Elric becomes far less friendly to Chaos, and ultimately becomes a servant of the Balance.  As such, he becomes allies with the forces of Law, although he is never truly one of their number.

[Stadler]

So what do you make of that?  Personal journey, personal growth (particularly the embracing of Balance over either extreme)?  An example of the hubris of man (I know Melniboneans are not "man", but the allegories are there).   

I believe Moorcock had his own battles with his vices, and if not, he had close friends that certainly did (he is close with, among others, Lemmy of Motorhead).  Is it an example of someone succumbing to their demons, or at least succumbing to the idea that their demons (Stormbringer in this case) will ultimately trump all other allegiances? 

Personally, I believe it has elements of all that, but is mainly the result of the searching of an enlightened mind, and is indicative of Elric's increased autonomy and free will (of course, with the acceptance of responsibility and consequences).

I think one of the real points of genius in the Elric series is how the "quest" takes a back seat to the psychology of the characters, in stark contrast to the more well-embraced fantasy works (TLOTR is the obvious culprit here) where the quest is the foremost element, and the psychology gets pushed to the back or ignored outright. 

[Podaar]

I think one of the real points of genius in the Elric series is how the "quest" takes a back seat to the psychology of the characters, in stark contrast to the more well-embraced fantasy works (TLOTR is the obvious culprit here) where the quest is the foremost element, and the psychology gets pushed to the back or ignored outright. 

Has Moorcock actually said that's what he was doing? Writing a psychological piece disguised as a sword and sorcery adventure? I'm not doubting you because I could totally see that but I think you're running a risk of over thinking this whole saga. It's pretty exciting storytelling.

Elric had to die with Stormbringer in his belly. The world was a wash in Chaos. Nothing was going to get out alive and it was as much Elric's selfishness that brought it to that point as it was any manipulation by Stormbringer. He'd earned that death and anything else would have been stupid.

[hefdaddy42]

I need to re-read these books.  It's been way too long.

[The Dark Master]

Has Moorcock actually said that's what he was doing? Writing a psychological piece disguised as a sword and sorcery adventure? I'm not doubting you because I could totally see that but I think you're running a risk of over thinking this whole saga. It's pretty exciting storytelling.

Well, kinda.

First of all, Elric was born out of Moorcock's publisher's request for a sword and sorcery series that was in the vein of Conan.  Moorcock, who was a fan of Conan, was at least determined to make his sword and sorcery hero as different as possible from the famous barbarian.  Consequently, Elric became pale, thin and frail (as opposed to tan, dark haired and muscular), was refined in countenance and dour in personality (whereas Conan was rough and jovial) and also relied upon sorcery rather then physical brawn to accomplish his goals.  There is also quite a bit of story reversal when comparing Conan to Elric.  Conan, more often then not, saves his friends and female love interests in his many adventures, while most (ultimately all) of Elric's companions are slain, usually by himself/Stormbringer (and woe to the woman who loves him!)

Beyond that, though, there was on Moorock's part a very conscious decision to include elements of Freudian and Jungian psychological theory in Elric's tales.  Stormbringer is by Moorcock's own admittance, essentially Elric's Id, representative of the side of his nature that seeks no more then self-satisfaction.  Likewise, the whole Chaos/Balance/Law scheme that governs the Multiverse is rather reminiscent of the Id/Ego/Superego construct prominent in psychology.  To what extent the inclusion of such psychology was inserted into Elric consciously verses subconsciously (as Moorcock was reading a lot of Freud and Jung at the time, so it's possible some of that may have found it's way into the stories unintentionally) is certainly debatable, but at the very least, he did have a strong interest in the psychological aspects of characters while he was writing the stories, so some of it was very much intended.

Also, I think it's worth noting that sword and sorcery heroes tend to be much more developed psychologically then the multitude of characters who make up the parties that go on quests in "high fantasy" such as LOTR in part because since the stories are focused so much on a single character, there are a lot more pages dedicated to what makes them tick.  When you're writing a series that revolves around a singular protagonist, you pretty much have to explore that character in depth, otherwise a series that is all about just one guy will get rather boring very fast.  In a book that is entirely about one character, that character becomes more then just a player in a story; in essence, they are the story.  The entire conflict between Law and Chaos parallels Elric's own internal struggles of his idealism and sense of justice verses his baser, more decadent and hedonistic nature.  In that sense, the story is about so much more then just a fantasy battle between two opposing armies; it is quite literally about a battle that goes on within all of us throughout our lives.

I've noticed that Moorcock's works, and Elric in particular, are extremely popular in France, and that most likely is because of the psychological symbolism that is to be found in his stories.  Much more so then the British or Americans, the French, Germans and other continental Europeans relish in fiction that is highly psychological and metaphorical, and more then just a story about a bunch of guys swinging swords.  It can be said that the psychology of Elric is what gives him his greatest appeal.  I don't think the stories would be even half as interesting as they are without the symbolic explorations of his (and by extension, the reader's) psyche.

[The Dark Master]

I need to re-read these books.  It's been way too long.

  Yes, you should!   

[Podaar]

Yeah, I need to reread them all again it seems. I don't doubt anything you've said, Dark Master and Stadler, and it all makes perfect sense. I was pretty young when I read through the saga the first couple of times so as an adult I'd probably get more out of them.

Thanks for your detailed replies.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I need to reread them all again it seems. I don't doubt anything you've said, Dark Master and Stadler, and it all makes perfect sense. I was pretty young when I read through the saga the first couple of times so as an adult I'd probably get more out of them.

Thanks for your detailed replies.

Dark Master said it all, I believe.  I would add two things, one minutiae, and one not:

One, one of Moorcock's first jobs, I believe, was editing a Tarzan periodical; not Conan specifically, but in the genre, and during that time, one of his first published works was based around a character named Sojan the Swordsman.   

Two, I think he DOES put that kind of effort in.  It may have started as a reaction to something else, but it certainly was with forethought (unless Moorcock himself is reinventing history) and it certainly evolved beyond the traditional.  He is forthcoming about having met Tolkein, and while he has nothing bad to say about the man, he can be scathing when talking about the work, and he is not thrilled with being lumped in with Tolkein and that genre.  I think he would be more thrilled with a comparison to Peake, than anyone else.  You can get a measure of this in his own "Epic Pooh", as well as "Death Is No Obstacle" which is a collection of interviews by Moorcock.  Moorcock spends as much time on the process and structure of writing as he does in the subject matter.  A lot of the Elric stories started as shorts and serializations, and were "expanded" into novels, but for example, the Elric/Oona series (written in the early 2000's) have a VERY rigid structure, down to number of sections, number of chapters, and pages per chapter. 

Personally, I think he is a fascinating guy. 

[The Dark Master]

I've read "Epic Pooh", but not "Death is no Obstacle", so I may need to see if I can find that.  Epic Pooh has some excellent deconstructing of LOTR and the "High Fantasy" genre as whole, and really goes into depth about how excessively comforting and conservative and, for want of a better word, safe, such fantasy can be.  (To be fair to Tolkien, he did live through the World Wars, so within that context, I can certainly understand the tone of his books, even if I agree with Moorcock's assertion that they coddle the reader.)

I also read Starship Stormtroopers, which goes after sci-fi writers, Heinlein in particular, which he feels have fascist undertones.  When I was younger, I used to love Heinlein's works, but as I've gotten older, they have become increasingly difficult for me to read, in large part due to their ideological viewpoint.

On the other hand, though, I have heard Moorcock refer to Judge Dredd as "crap", which I cannot agree with (sorry, Mike  )

The funny thing is, because of his strong opinions on other fantasy/sci-fi writers, some people have come to think that Moorcock is a bit of an ass.  Yet the impression I've gotten from his interviews is completely the opposite.  I've never met him in person, but he seems like an incredibly kind and gracious person, and he's certainly highly intelligent and thoughtful.  And he has given praise to a great many writers, in particular Pullman, Rowling and Pratchett.  It just seems like a lot of people only remember his disagreements with Tolkien's works, which Mike has even said have been blown far out of proportion.

BTW, those Elric/Oona books (The Moonbeam Roads/ Dreamquest trilogy) are incredible.  I think the two later Elric novels (The Fortress of the Pear and The Revenge of the Rose) both serve as excellent bridges between the Elric Saga proper and the Moonbeam Roads books.  Certainly his most ambitious work.

[NotePad]

I'm really into sci-fi authors, like Philip K Dick and John Brunner for example. But ive been wanting to get into some fantasy stuff. Unfortunately fantasy is a genre that usually bores me. The ones I've read I find cliche and boring. But I've been recommended Michael Moorcock in the past because apparently he's different. I don't know, I'll have to read it. I bought an Elric book, the first part in the series. Here's a !ink to their book I bought. I hope its a good place to start.


https://www.goodreads.com/series/45166-chronicles-of-the-last-emperor-of-melnibon

[The Dark Master]

I'm really into sci-fi authors, like Philip K Dick and John Brunner for example. But ive been wanting to get into some fantasy stuff. Unfortunately fantasy is a genre that usually bores me. The ones I've read I find cliche and boring. But I've been recommended Michael Moorcock in the past because apparently he's different. I don't know, I'll have to read it. I bought an Elric book, the first part in the series. Here's a !ink to their book I bought. I hope its a good place to start.


https://www.goodreads.com/series/45166-chronicles-of-the-last-emperor-of-melnibon

Those are the most recent editions by DelRay (which I have).  In addition to containing a whole bunch of supplementary material, they were also published roughly in the order in which the stories were written, rather then the chronological order in which the stories take place.  So they're sort of like a history of the evolution of Elric as a character.  If you want to read the stories in chronological order, the main sequence consists of the following books and short stories:


I – Elric of Melniboné
 
II – The Fortress of the Pearl

III – The Sailor on the Seas of Fate 

IV – The Weird of the White Wolf 
- Master of Chaos aka The Dream of Earl Aubec
- The Dreaming City 
- While the Gods Laugh
- The Singing Citadel

V – The Sleeping Sorceress aka The Vanishing Tower

VI – The Revenge of the Rose

VII – The Bane of the Black Sword
- The Stealer of Souls
- Kings in Darkness
- The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams
- To Rescue Tanelorn

VIII – Stormbringer
- Dead God's Homecoming
- Black Sword's Brothers
- Sad Giant's Shield
- Doomed Lord's Passing 

A couple of notes:

The Weird Of The White Wolf, Bane Of The Black Sword and Stormbringer are actually fix-up novels of short stories that were published in magazines and then later collected and arranged to form proper books.  Technically, that is also true of The Sailor On The Seas Of Fate and The Sleeping Sorceress, although the stories that were used to make up those books were never published individually (expect for The Jade Man's Eyes, which was heavily rewritten when it became the third part of TSOTSOF).

Also it's worth noting that The Fortress of the Pearl and The Revenge of the Rose were written waaaay after the other main books in the series (1989 and 1991, respectively, while the rest of the series was written between 1961 to 1976).  Because of this, the story and style of those two books is radically different from the older six, so reading those in chronological sequence with the six older books can be a bit jarring.

The order in which the DelRay volumes printed the main stories is as follows:

Volume I - The Stealer of Souls
- The Dreaming City 
- While the Gods Laugh
- The Stealer of Souls
- Kings in Darkness
- The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams
- Dead God's Homecoming
- Black Sword's Brothers
- Sad Giant's Shield
- Doomed Lord's Passing 

Voulme 2 - To Rescue Tanelorn
- To Rescue Tanelorn
- Master of Chaos aka The Dream of Earl Aubec
- The Singing Citadel

Volume 3 - The Sleeping Sorceress
– The Sleeping Sorceress aka The Vanishing Tower
– Elric of Melniboné

Voulme 4 - Duke Elric
- The Sailor on the Seas of Fate

Voume 5 - In the Dream Realms
- The Fortress of the Pearl

Volume 6 - Swords and Roses
- The Revenge of the Rose

So as you can see, the DelRays do not follow the chronological sequence of the stories at all.  If you were to read Elric in chronological sequence with those books (which I have,) you would need to start with Elric of Melnibone which is the second half of Volume 3, and you would end with the four Stormbringer novellas, which are at the end of Volume 1.

I really should stress, these are very nice editions, but if you want to use them to read the Eric Series in order, be prepared to jump around a lot!

Also, there are other Elric stories which, for a variety of reasons, are not included in the main sequence.  A complete chronological list of Elric stories would look like this:

The Dream of Earl Aubec aka Master of Chaos (novella)
Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer (graphic novel)
And So the Great Emperor received his education (short story)
Elric of Melniboné (novel) 
The Fortress of the Pearl (novel)
Elric: The Return to Melnibone (graphic story)
The Black Blade's Song aka The Black Blade’s Summoning aka The White Wolf's Song (short story)
The Sailor on the Seas of Fate (novel) 
Elric at the End of Time (novella)
The Dreaming City (short story) 
A Portrait in Ivory (short story) 
While the Gods Laugh (short story) 
Black Petals (novella) 
Red Pearls (novella)
White Steel (novella) *forthcoming
The Singing Citadel (novella) 
The Sleeping Sorceress aka The Vanishing Tower (novel)
The Revenge of the Rose (novel) 
The Stealer of Souls (novella) 
Kings in Darkness (novella) 
The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams aka The Flame Bringers (novella) 
The Last Enchantment aka Jesting with Chaos (novella)
To Rescue Tanelorn... (novella) 
Dead God's Homecoming (novella)
Black Sword's Brothers (novella)
Sad Giant's Shield (novella)
Doomed Lord's Passing (novella)


There are also stories that take place in Elric's dreams (which are called Dreamquests) and as such do not fit easily into a chronological reading of the series.  Those stories are:

The Dreamthief's Daughter (novel) (takes place around the time of The Revenge of the Rose )
Duke Elric (graphic novel, part of Michael Moorcock's Multiverse) (takes place during “Black Sword's Brothers”)
The Skryling Tree (novel) (takes place during “Black Sword's Brothers”)
The White Wolf's Son (novel) (takes place during “Black Sword's Brothers”)

I'll post more about this later, but that should give you an idea of where to start with Elric.

[Stadler]

Thanks to Dark Master for that excellent overview.

I don't think it will, but on the off-chance that that seems overwhelming, and you're otherwise predisposed to read this, PLEASE dive in.  I know it's all personal and all taste, but I enjoy the Elric series so much it has kind of ruined "pedestrian" fantasy for me. 

[The Dark Master]

Thanks to Dark Master for that excellent overview.

I don't think it will, but on the off-chance that that seems overwhelming, and you're otherwise predisposed to read this, PLEASE dive in.  I know it's all personal and all taste, but I enjoy the Elric series so much it has kind of ruined "pedestrian" fantasy for me. 

You're welcome.   

As for where to start, Moorcock himself has said the best starting points for people first getting into Elric would be either the novel Elric of Melnibone (which is the first book in the main sequence) or the more recent graphic novel, Elric: the Making of a Sorcerer, which provides a good deal of backstory on Elric's origins and upbringing.

I've noticed from browsing the web that the most popular suggested reading orders for the series are either reading the eight main books chronologically (which I posted above), or reading the original six, and then the later two, like this:

I – Elric of Melniboné
 
II – The Sailor on the Seas of Fate 

III – The Weird of the White Wolf 
- Master of Chaos aka The Dream of Earl Aubec
- The Dreaming City 
- While the Gods Laugh
- The Singing Citadel

IV – The Sleeping Sorceress aka The Vanishing Tower

V – The Bane of the Black Sword
- The Stealer of Souls
- Kings in Darkness
- The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams
- To Rescue Tanelorn

VI – Stormbringer
- Dead God's Homecoming
- Black Sword's Brothers
- Sad Giant's Shield
- Doomed Lord's Passing 

VII – The Fortress of the Pearl

VIII – The Revenge of the Rose


Ultimately how you want to read the books is your own personal preference.  I will say, though, that having just recently re-read the entire series chronologically, that doing so may not be the best approach.  The Fortress of the Pearl and The Revenge of the Rose are very different from the original six books (not that they are bad; in fact, those are my two favourite Elric books), and a lot of the random Elric short stories and novellas that Moorcock has written over the years, if read in chronological order with the main sequence, break up the flow of the overall saga.  (Case in point, reading "Elric at the End of Time" in between The Sailor on the Seas of Fate and The Weird of the White Wolf interrupts the narrative of the original saga.)  My own personal suggestion would be the order I posted right above this paragraph; the six older books in chronological order, and then Fortress, then Revenge, and then whatever.  But it is, after all, your own choice.