Author Topic: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"  (Read 2513 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2015, 09:27:16 PM »
I think the real crux of the issue is this...

In advocating a way of life, is the primary focus "Look at me", or is it "Look at God"?   Because if we point to ourselves, it kindof misses the entire point of Christianity in the first place.    If were are pointing to God and saying, "This is the correct way to go...and NO, I'm not perfect at following it either", then it takes the self importance (that stabs at the very heart of what Christianity is supposed to be) out of the equation. 

Christianity from the Biblical aspect is not terribly unlike a quote I remember from the AA "Big Book"

Quote
...do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles.   We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress.  We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.
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Calvin6s

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2015, 05:27:11 AM »
This thread is interesting when you compare the responses on this one to the Jared thread.

Online Stadler

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2015, 07:26:05 AM »
I'm going to purposefully respond here BEFORE reading the Jared thread, as a sort of test.

As much as we might pretend it isn't, I think this IS an indictment of faith and religion.  It's oh-so-easy to point out religious hypocrisy (as a test, start naming rock bands that have songs about this very topic:  Iron Maiden, "Holy Smoke", Ozzy, "Miracle Man", I could go on...) but it misses the point.   We're tolerant of preaching a way of life when we agree with it.  We're not so much when we don't or have no dog in that hunt.   Look at all the hypocrisy surrounding Caitlyn Jenner, but it's the cause du jour, so there's no indictment.  This douche (and don't get me wrong; if the allegations are true, he's a criminal) having a paid account on Ashley Madison (assuming it's even him) isn't exactly a war crime. 

I think Jammin' is spot on with the difference between the man and God, and notion of "perfection".   Would we call Phillip Seymour Hoffman a "hypocrite"? 

Offline Cable

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2015, 06:05:35 PM »
The grey area, or fine line, is drawn because PSH never chastised users during his 20 years of claimed sobriety from what I know. I didn't follow the guy, but I don't think he ripped into addicts. So he cannot be hypocrite because I don't recall him saying anything against those who are addicted- but I could be wrong.

Better still, a guy I use as an example to my addicted population is Russell Brand. Kirksnosehair (Barry I think?) posted a great article he wrote when Amy Winehouse died, and I've been a fan of his recovery efforts since reading that. The next time I hear an addict in recovery tell another addict that relapsed that they are going to H(h)ell, follow the L(l)ord and/or you are a terrible person who is a waste of existance will be the first time. I can rack my memory for several famous recovered addicts, musicians and people we all know of, and I cannot think of one ever judging another addict. I have read about a lot of mud Dave Mustaine has slung. But never did i see mud thrown at those still addicted. And if we go with this analogy, he would be the good one because he is a Christian, and recovered guy who had a relapse.

But they are separate. I think while the addiction analogy makes sense; as someone who works with it, the more I think about it the more it falls a tad short. I am not devaluing the greatness of AA/NA, as it was founded with religious overtones, and I truly believe they have it right. I always encourage addicts to become involved in it, and I note to them that it can be secular if that is a barrier. But talking about addictions, which are brain imbalances vs. a belief system, comes to a little bit of the cliche apples to oranges. I'm not a neurologist, bio/neurological/physiological psychologist, but I would bet my cat that the addictions/pleasure zones of the brain are different than the belief/value/moral part of the brain.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 06:13:51 PM by CableX »
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Online Stadler

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2015, 08:03:51 AM »
You make some really good, relevant points, and I think I stand corrected; it perhaps isn't a good analogy.   But I was going for a stark example of someone who basically says one thing and does another.  How many times has Steven Tyler said he's clean? Or Ace Frehley?   But you're, I think, right in that it isn't the same, and I don't want to seem insensitive to the struggle that many addicts have in keeping clean.   If it was so easy, everyone would do it and we wouldn't have stories like Amy Winehouse. 

I think, though, in that regard, it is similar to the Duggar's and Jared's of the world.   One would think that the stakes are higher so they would get help, but I do have some - I wouldn't say "sympathy", exactly, let's say "acknowledgement"  - of how hard it must be to have that physical urge constantly and yet not be able to release it in any way that is readily acceptable by society. 

Calvin6s

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2015, 01:26:02 PM »
But I was going for a stark example of someone who basically says one thing and does another.
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Offline Cable

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2015, 09:03:15 PM »
And here is where I can meet you Stadler, and the analogy fits with a different view. We have our Joe Perry's, Phil Anselmos, the majority of Alice In Chains alive and dead, Lou Reeds and so on. And we have our Josh Duggars, John Edwards, Jimmy Swaggarts and so on.

Both sets can agree that what they are doing is "wrong," and/or will cause damage to themselves and others. And at the core of their emotions, after they do whatever they do, they will probably feel shame/guilt. They are most definitely tied together that way.

So there is a similar emotional/moral/value/societal etc compass. Both sides will feel ashamed after they go against society, family and their health for those who are addicted, and against their family and faith/spirutuality/religion for those who sin. The twist stays with the motivation, and where that comes from, and why that person holds addiction, cheating, molesting and so on wrong. Molesting goes more with anti-social behaviors though, which is a different beast. Duggar hits multiple categories unfortunately.  :-\
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Online Chino

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2015, 09:52:46 AM »
https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/porn-star-details-terrifying-rough-sex-josh-duggar-article-1.2337691

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Josh Duggar allegedly had two "terrifying" rough sex romps with a porn star while his wife was pregnant with their fourth child, the traumatized X-rated entertainer claims.

Stripper and adult film star Danica Dillon has revealed details of how sex with Duggar quickly turned violent after the disgraced reality TV star lured her into bed with promises of cash gifts.

Calvin6s

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2015, 11:54:45 AM »
 :lol

Porn star testimony.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2015, 05:34:15 PM »
Quote
Dillon agreed, saying she "took the opportunity because Josh offered to gift (her) $1,500."

Most obvious statement ever. "Well, yeah I did it. He offered me money, duh."
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Offline Cable

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2015, 06:16:37 AM »
https://www.distractify.com/deborahgross-jessa-disses-josh-1327288613.html?ts_pid=2
https://www.seewalds.com/grief-shame-and-taking-the-lords-name-in-vain/

It keeps going. His sister's inlaws or her herself- I believe one of the victims, blasts him with judgement. I doubt it was fully her if at all, due to the way it is was written.

*EDIT* it was not her. She tweeted it.
https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/why-jessa-duggar-finally-turned-against-her-older-128272079817.html
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 01:44:09 AM by CableX »
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Calvin6s

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Re: "19 Kids & Counting: ...Josh Duggar...Past Molestation Allegations"
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2015, 07:06:23 PM »
So what season do we see the Michael Seewald implosion?