Well, now I've gone and made things really awkward with a friend...

[Chino]

Well, I'm not really sure what the distance (which is not THAT far, btw) matters when we're talking about a friendship that's important to me 

Shit. I meant from her perspective, not yours. My bad.

[hefdaddy42]

Let's do it

I have more cuffs, so I don't have to ask for them back (they're probably in the trash anyway).

RJ will bring the Ginsu.

I will bring the avocados and peanut butter.

[vtgrad]

Stadler, I totally see what you're saying. I did also tell her that even though that's something I would do with any good friend (regardless of gender or history), had I known that she knew about the history I probably wouldn't have done it so as not to make her uncomfortable. You're right, I can only see things through my own lenses but I am the type of person who tries to think about what it looks like through the lenses of others as well. It's not like I can't see why it would be uncomfortable for her.

IMO, the bold portion may be the crux of the whole situation.  It may have been best if she didn't know your history with him, other than the fact that you once had a relationship.  Maybe she shouldn't have known all of the facts about your previous relationship with him (very good friends who have slept together a few times) in the first place.  And if that's the case, it's on him not you.  You were being yourself and you didn't know that SHE knew the whole back-story (as you said).

As someone who has had these types of problems in the past (long, long... long past), I learned early that a brand new relationship maybe doesn't really need to know everything about an old relationship.  Especially when there is a chance that we may run into that old relationship.

For example, my wife and I have been together for 17-years total (married for more than eight)... which is very close to half my life (more than half of hers).  She knows the details of ALL of my previous relationships; but she learned those details from me after we had been together for a long time (probably 5-years or more).  At that point, we had been through that rough period that every long-term relationship goes through (she took me back when she shouldn't have praise God) and at that point, we both had (and still have) COMPLETE trust in each other.  Granted, I don't have any regular or purposeful contact with previous relationships (and I don't want any contact with previous relationships... I'm still very much in love with my beautiful wife and I don't even want the appearance of impropriety), but if we were to run into any of these persons, I feel confident that she wouldn't feel uncomfortable because she KNOWS that I have eyes for only her.

I will also say this (please don't take this as a slight toward you... it's not)... if he wants a serious relationship with this person, he probably shouldn't put himself in a situation in which his past history may come back to bite him.  Again, my view would be that it's on him 1) for giving her the full history of your relationship with him in the first place and 2) for putting himself (and you) in that situation to begin with.
 

[Podaar]

Okay, I admit that my earlier post was a little harsh and others here have taken a better path to, essentially, what I was trying to say: Jackie, your intentions weren't to cause any harm and in my opinion that should be good enough...for you. From here on out, working out their issues should be their problem since it's a near certainty you wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway.

I say, be content. You're one of the good ones!

[bout to crash]

Yeah, I see what you're saying vtgrad.
I think a quality my friend has that is a virtue but also gets him in trouble is his honesty. Now I mean, in this situation she asked him and he shouldn't have lied, but in the last situation where this sort of happened he volunteered the info as far as I know, and that caused a lot of drama with the last girlfriend (who WAS kind of a psycho and highly insecure). But it's like, what do you do? She asks and you're honest, she gets upset. She asks and you lie, then maybe later it comes out and she gets probably more upset that you lied. I don't think he told her a lot of details about it (and I only slightly expanded on it by giving details I thought would be helpful for her to know) thankfully. You're right, it is on him and hopefully it'll blow over but I also hope I hear something back from her after sharing what I did.

Well, I'm not really sure what the distance (which is not THAT far, btw) matters when we're talking about a friendship that's important to me 

Shit. I meant from her perspective, not yours. My bad.

Ohh, okay. Makes more sense but the "you" threw me off.

Let's do it

I have more cuffs, so I don't have to ask for them back (they're probably in the trash anyway).

RJ will bring the Ginsu.

I will bring the avocados and peanut butter.

Mmmmm.

[bout to crash]

Okay, I admit that my earlier post was a little harsh and others here have taken a better path to, essentially, what I was trying to say: Jackie, your intentions weren't to cause any harm and in my opinion that should be good enough...for you. From here on out, working out their issues should be their problem since it's a near certainty you wouldn't be able to do anything about it anyway.

I say, be content. You're one of the good ones!

Aww, thanks. Yeah, though I am hoping to hear back from her I am just going to leave it alone at this point.

[hefdaddy42]

It's very important to keep the avocado pits.

You'll see.

[King Postwhore]

It's very important to keep the avocado pits.

You'll see.

Can't wait to see your trick Hef.

[MoraWintersoul]

But - again, respectfully - you are looking at this through your lenses.   And while it's cool for you to do that for your own wellbeing, and it is cool to explain it as "that's just the way I am", remember she's looking at this through HER lenses, and, well, "that's just the way she is".   You have no idea if this is a "hot stove" for her (meaning, she's touched this stove before and been burned).

I'm seeing someone now who is - objectively, not just my taste - very beautiful.  She has actually won a beauty pageant beautiful.   So she has many male friends.  And I am generally pretty cool with all of that; I am secure in my masculinity, and even though I'm not as good looking a man as she is a woman, I have my upsides, and I know what I bring to the table.  But I have a "history" with "friends", including the ending of my marriage by virtue of a "oh, but we're just FRIENDS" relationship.  An "Oh, but we just WORK together" relationship.  And a "Oh, he was just JOKING with that reference" relationship. 

Things can get awkward whether too much or too little history has been divulged. To offer a view from a perspective perhaps similar to the one of your friend's girlfriend, sometimes these things bother me, and even though it's only a bit of a bother, the smaller the stone in your shoe, the more it hurts while you walk.

My boyfriend hasn't really divulged any of his history to me. All I know are the small things - out of the girlfriend's he's had, one or more lived in my city (we're long distance), there was one who broke his heart, and at the time I was pursuing him, he was pursuing other girls he liked, but decided to give "us" a go. I very carefully explained my "history" (not much to tell, one real long relationship and that's it) to him, considering the fact that my ex-boyfriend remained a friend of mine and we are in the same circles still, and I thought I should avoid any misunderstandings. I was very clear about the fact that our relationship died because we weren't attracted to each other at all anymore and couldn't function romantically at all - that it's done, dead, gonners forever.

But he hasn't extended this courtesy to me, and while I am a reasonable, liberal person, it bothers me that, considering our circles of friends and acquiantances overlap, I might have as well already had coffee with one or more of his exes or old flames without knowing it. I wouldn't have a problem with it if I knew who they were, but if I was casually mentioning my boyfriend while hanging around waiting for an event and a girl next to me said "oh yeah, he's my ex", I would be taken aback. This extending to the fact that he's had old flames and what-could-have-beens I may already know about is just not a good place to be, even though I've made myself at least appear very cool with it. I don't even know what I'd do if one of them presented him with a sex toy in front of me clearly I wouldn't think she was trying to show me up, and I am very familiar with the fact that you can be friends with an ex, but it would still feel awkward.

So I'm just in this intersection where I do feel insecure, but I also feel insecure for being insecure. I know everyone has history and that worrying about it is extremely uncool. But I also know there are probably people out there my boyfriend would still have feelings for if their paths crossed again, even if he wouldn't act on it. And that there is a chance that he's had feelings of the magnitude he'll never have for me. While people have so reasonably said that everyone's insecurities are their own business, and that relationships you don't have utmost confidence in should be terminated, in real life it's not so clear cut.

While in all relationships we can handle being a part of a larger circle, romantically we can't. It's not a fear of being cheated on, it's more of a fear that you are the second best, or not the one and only, and that there will be other people after you. Maybe for her you seem like one of those other people. But you did all you could to assure you you're not, the rest is up to her.

[kirksnosehair]

Jealousy can become a serious problem if it's not nipped in the bud immediately.  I am not the jealous type.  And fortunately, my wife isn't either.  But I have had some experiences of my own with jealousy and nothing good ever came of it. 


When I was in my early 20's I was boinking a 37-year-old divorced mother of 3 young children.  It was a perfect pairing.   I was young and willing and she was horny but didn't want to get entangled in any complicated relationships or anything heavy.  Like it was put above, just fuckbuddies - from her perspective, not mine.  Oh, sure, I agreed with just about anything she said as long as she was still willing to let me bend her like a Martian pretzel and have at it.  So I did.  And it was an incredible experience for the 8 or 9 months that it lasted.  But towards the end I was falling really hard for her, trying to prove that I could support her, her three kids and the mortgage on the house.  The only problem was I was just a kid, working as a bicycle messenger in Boston.  On a good week I was knocking down a whopping $250, before taxes. 


This is pretty embarrassing and even a little pathetic, I guess, but it's what happened:  In a desperate attempt to change her mind about dumping me, which I knew was coming really soon, I went to RENT-A-CENTER and got her a diamond engagement ring.  It was a real diamond!  (but you needed a microscope to see it!).


I got myself dressed up nice and went over to her house to propose to her and when I got there she was sitting at the kitchen table with a couple of her friends and I knew it was over. 


I was fucking devastated.   


And then I found out she had actually dumped me for a different guy.  It was a guy closer to her age, with an actual career and the stability and maturity.  You know, the kind of guy she really needed to meet at that point in her life.


But I just couldn't let her go.  I couldn't get her out of my head.  Every waking moment of every day I was just wallowing in self-pity but I didn't know how to escape it.   And really, I never did escape it.  Over time, slowly but surely, it got better.   Eventually she became a distant memory.


The moral of the story is:  Watch out for people who are jealous.  They do erratic things sometimes.  Things you never would have imagined they'd do. 

[bout to crash]

Aww ... yeah, jealousy sucks but we all experience it to some degree.

On the bright side, she did write back to me and basically just said "Yeah, that was hella awkward but we're cool"... I think she probably had an initial freakout (based on all the stuff my friend mentioned) about it and then chilled out, which is great.

I asked her if it would be okay to take our relationship to the next level and become FB friends so we'll see what she says 

[jammindude]

Aww ... yeah, jealousy sucks but we all experience it to some degree.

On the bright side, she did write back to me and basically just said "Yeah, that was hella awkward but we're cool"... I think she probably had an initial freakout (based on all the stuff my friend mentioned) about it and then chilled out, which is great.

I asked her if it would be okay to take our relationship to the next level and become FB friends so we'll see what she says 

Whoa now just hold on there a minute.   Don't you think this is moving a little fast?   I mean, I'm getting a little claustrophobic just thinking about it... 


 

[ariich]

Aww ... yeah, jealousy sucks but we all experience it to some degree.

On the bright side, she did write back to me and basically just said "Yeah, that was hella awkward but we're cool"... I think she probably had an initial freakout (based on all the stuff my friend mentioned) about it and then chilled out, which is great.

I asked her if it would be okay to take our relationship to the next level and become FB friends so we'll see what she says 

Awesomesauce, great to hear.

[hefdaddy42]

I asked her if it would be okay to take our relationship to the next level and become FB friends so we'll see what she says 

You are the best them

[Calvin6s]

I asked her if it would be okay to take our relationship to the next level and become FB friends so we'll see what she says 

I knew this was all about setting up the menage a trois.  Now I understand why everybody here is trying to be you male "just friend".

[Stadler]

Stadler, I totally see what you're saying. I did also tell her that even though that's something I would do with any good friend (regardless of gender or history), had I known that she knew about the history I probably wouldn't have done it so as not to make her uncomfortable. You're right, I can only see things through my own lenses but I am the type of person who tries to think about what it looks like through the lenses of others as well. It's not like I can't see why it would be uncomfortable for her.

IMO, the bold portion may be the crux of the whole situation.  It may have been best if she didn't know your history with him, other than the fact that you once had a relationship.  Maybe she shouldn't have known all of the facts about your previous relationship with him (very good friends who have slept together a few times) in the first place.  And if that's the case, it's on him not you.  You were being yourself and you didn't know that SHE knew the whole back-story (as you said).

As someone who has had these types of problems in the past (long, long... long past), I learned early that a brand new relationship maybe doesn't really need to know everything about an old relationship.  Especially when there is a chance that we may run into that old relationship.

For example, my wife and I have been together for 17-years total (married for more than eight)... which is very close to half my life (more than half of hers).  She knows the details of ALL of my previous relationships; but she learned those details from me after we had been together for a long time (probably 5-years or more).  At that point, we had been through that rough period that every long-term relationship goes through (she took me back when she shouldn't have praise God) and at that point, we both had (and still have) COMPLETE trust in each other.  Granted, I don't have any regular or purposeful contact with previous relationships (and I don't want any contact with previous relationships... I'm still very much in love with my beautiful wife and I don't even want the appearance of impropriety), but if we were to run into any of these persons, I feel confident that she wouldn't feel uncomfortable because she KNOWS that I have eyes for only her.

I will also say this (please don't take this as a slight toward you... it's not)... if he wants a serious relationship with this person, he probably shouldn't put himself in a situation in which his past history may come back to bite him.  Again, my view would be that it's on him 1) for giving her the full history of your relationship with him in the first place and 2) for putting himself (and you) in that situation to begin with.

But she asked, as is her right.  Like in my example, I asked.  Because for several reasons (one being "it's good due diligence") I wanted to know the truth, and more importantly, I wanted to know if she would tell me the truth (because honestly, I believe I knew the answer before I asked; not by anything creepy or illegal, but because of the way she answered an earlier question).   And while it was something we had to talk about, if she lied to me about that, we were likely done.   

I think my point is, there are no rules here.  It's the complicated dance of three people, with three different points of view, three different hot buttons, and three different needs. 

Not that what I say matters at all, but I think Jackie handled it about as well as anyone could ever expect.   Now, if she shows up to the next meeting with a Vibratex Rabbit as a "fun gift", I think we may have to reevaluate the outcome of this.   (I'm kidding). 

[Stadler]

But - again, respectfully - you are looking at this through your lenses.   And while it's cool for you to do that for your own wellbeing, and it is cool to explain it as "that's just the way I am", remember she's looking at this through HER lenses, and, well, "that's just the way she is".   You have no idea if this is a "hot stove" for her (meaning, she's touched this stove before and been burned).

I'm seeing someone now who is - objectively, not just my taste - very beautiful.  She has actually won a beauty pageant beautiful.   So she has many male friends.  And I am generally pretty cool with all of that; I am secure in my masculinity, and even though I'm not as good looking a man as she is a woman, I have my upsides, and I know what I bring to the table.  But I have a "history" with "friends", including the ending of my marriage by virtue of a "oh, but we're just FRIENDS" relationship.  An "Oh, but we just WORK together" relationship.  And a "Oh, he was just JOKING with that reference" relationship. 

Things can get awkward whether too much or too little history has been divulged. To offer a view from a perspective perhaps similar to the one of your friend's girlfriend, sometimes these things bother me, and even though it's only a bit of a bother, the smaller the stone in your shoe, the more it hurts while you walk.

My boyfriend hasn't really divulged any of his history to me. All I know are the small things - out of the girlfriend's he's had, one or more lived in my city (we're long distance), there was one who broke his heart, and at the time I was pursuing him, he was pursuing other girls he liked, but decided to give "us" a go. I very carefully explained my "history" (not much to tell, one real long relationship and that's it) to him, considering the fact that my ex-boyfriend remained a friend of mine and we are in the same circles still, and I thought I should avoid any misunderstandings. I was very clear about the fact that our relationship died because we weren't attracted to each other at all anymore and couldn't function romantically at all - that it's done, dead, gonners forever.

But he hasn't extended this courtesy to me, and while I am a reasonable, liberal person, it bothers me that, considering our circles of friends and acquiantances overlap, I might have as well already had coffee with one or more of his exes or old flames without knowing it. I wouldn't have a problem with it if I knew who they were, but if I was casually mentioning my boyfriend while hanging around waiting for an event and a girl next to me said "oh yeah, he's my ex", I would be taken aback. This extending to the fact that he's had old flames and what-could-have-beens I may already know about is just not a good place to be, even though I've made myself at least appear very cool with it. I don't even know what I'd do if one of them presented him with a sex toy in front of me clearly I wouldn't think she was trying to show me up, and I am very familiar with the fact that you can be friends with an ex, but it would still feel awkward.

So I'm just in this intersection where I do feel insecure, but I also feel insecure for being insecure. I know everyone has history and that worrying about it is extremely uncool. But I also know there are probably people out there my boyfriend would still have feelings for if their paths crossed again, even if he wouldn't act on it. And that there is a chance that he's had feelings of the magnitude he'll never have for me. While people have so reasonably said that everyone's insecurities are their own business, and that relationships you don't have utmost confidence in should be terminated, in real life it's not so clear cut.

While in all relationships we can handle being a part of a larger circle, romantically we can't. It's not a fear of being cheated on, it's more of a fear that you are the second best, or not the one and only, and that there will be other people after you. Maybe for her you seem like one of those other people. But you did all you could to assure you you're not, the rest is up to her.

Why wouldn't you just show him that post?   You have to do what's right for you (and your relationship) but unless you know WHY he isn't telling you (shy?  embarrassed that it is more/less than you might think?  That you HAVE had coffee with one or more of his ex's?) how can you make any real evaluations?    I haven't asked about every single one - and honestly, I probably won't - but that one "felt" different.   And I know me; I'm not jealous, unless I am, and I am when I feel like I am being purposefully kept in the dark.  I am well and truly past this now, in large part because we talked about it.   They do have some contact now, and she is not obligated to tell me every single time and she doesn't (I trust her), but that if I did ask for more details, I know I would get them.   

[Calvin6s]

The best way to lose friends is to expect perfection.  That's why this isn't "all on him (and/or her)".

[bout to crash]

Well, you make a good point but in this case it is "on him" to handle his relationship stuff because it's really got nothing to do with me, and I think that's what a lot of people meant by that.

Stadler, I told her I would not give him/them any more sex toys unless they asked first 

I thought about saying "Maybe one day we can all have a threesome (too soon??)" but would never.

[vtgrad]

Well, you make a good point but in this case it is "on him" to handle his relationship stuff because it's really got nothing to do with me, and I think that's what a lot of people meant by that.

Stadler, I told her I would not give him/them any more sex toys unless they asked first 

I thought about saying "Maybe one day we can all have a threesome (too soon??)" but would never.

Maybe that was his intention all along... if so, I must say Bravo for being that crafty and leading what was assuredly an inevitable conversation (between you and his new girlfriend) to the point where a threesome would come up (jokingly at first... then maybe a serious request).

In all seriousness, I see what Stadler is saying... she (the new girlfriend) asked a question that she probably already knew the answer to (which is absolutely her right); he answered her truthfully (which, IMO, is what he should have done).  I must have missed the fact that she asked him directly about your previous relationship... I assumed that he volunteered the information.  Now the situation makes more sense to me.

Honestly, he likely could have handled that uncomfortable situation immediately if he had said to you "Thanks!  We will use these tonight!" whilst throwing his arm around his new girlfriend and giving her a kiss.  That would have given the new girlfriend the impression that he immediately thinks of her when sex is mentioned.

[Calvin6s]

Well, you make a good point but in this case it is "on him" to handle his relationship stuff because it's really got nothing to do with me, and I think that's what a lot of people meant by that.

I just mean that you aren't willing to lose him as a friend, so you might have to compromise "yourself" a bit.  We are all somewhat insecure about relatively new relationships.  If you aren't, then you probably aren't as in to them as you thought you were.

[bout to crash]

Oh, totally.

Honestly, he likely could have handled that uncomfortable situation immediately if he had said to you "Thanks!  We will use these tonight!" whilst throwing his arm around his new girlfriend and giving her a kiss.  That would have given the new girlfriend the impression that he immediately thinks of her when sex is mentioned.

Well, that's sort of what happened. I handed them to him, then he laughed and said to her "Hey, we can use these" or something like that. She sorta made a face and said "You can!" I just figured she meant it in a "Those aren't my thing" kinda way, especially since we sat and talked after that and I wasn't getting any weird vibes. Oh well.

[MoraWintersoul]

Why wouldn't you just show him that post?   You have to do what's right for you (and your relationship) but unless you know WHY he isn't telling you (shy?  embarrassed that it is more/less than you might think?  That you HAVE had coffee with one or more of his ex's?) how can you make any real evaluations?

The thing is that I kind of have a feeling that I had a sort of a window of opportunity to ask this and similar things very early on in our relationship, and that it's closed now. I feel this for a lot of people actually - I always think that I have one shot to tell anyone anything and that I have to take it or hold my peace. It's definitely something to work on.

[Stadler]

Why wouldn't you just show him that post?   You have to do what's right for you (and your relationship) but unless you know WHY he isn't telling you (shy?  embarrassed that it is more/less than you might think?  That you HAVE had coffee with one or more of his ex's?) how can you make any real evaluations?

The thing is that I kind of have a feeling that I had a sort of a window of opportunity to ask this and similar things very early on in our relationship, and that it's closed now. I feel this for a lot of people actually - I always think that I have one shot to tell anyone anything and that I have to take it or hold my peace. It's definitely something to work on.

I totally know what you mean with that.  It's that feeling that the conversation was had, and to revisit it is somehow under the table.   It probably won't help you (I kind of think it is like touching a hot stove; you have to do it for yourself to see what it feels like) but I've been able to ditch that feeling after my divorce.  I now sort of think of it as a spiral staircase.   You kind of keep going around and around, but not exactly in the same spot.  So the questions that were answered one way when you were still just flirting and figuring things out are answered again with a little more nuance once you realize the person isn't a jackass and you might want to see where this is going, and then they are answered again with even more nuance if and when you realize you may want to spend the rest of your life (or at least the foreseeable future, haha) with them.   Doesn't mean it's a test or a trap, though if you get three entirely different answers ("I slept with 5, no wait 15, no wait, if you count hookers, 92 women") you might have a problem. 

[Cyclopssss]

Wow. Some awesome stories here. About the 'former partner history thing'.
I've had some flings and shortlived things with girfriends before I met my gf. But this really is my first real long relationship. So I was really new to the whole relationship thing.
I've been pretty open about all of my former ex's (the ones worthy mentioning, that is) and my gf has about hers. She had two longterm relationships before me, and especially the second one was pretty abusive. What I wasn't ready for, though, were the guys that ocassionally kept calling her to date when we were just getting serious. One was a Nigerian ex- american footballplayer guy and the other one was even creepier, because I knew him as a former drinkbuddy. Thing is, I wasn't mister Clean (no drug refference) at the time, but he had really gone down the drain. Alcoholism, homelessness, drug abuse he looked like a caveman. The real freaky thing was when he called my gf and started chatting her up with me right in the room and asking her out and I thought WTF? This Guy? (offcourse he didn't know I was dating my gf at that point). But he had ALSO hung around an earlier ex- fling of mine. And now I ran into him again....! Made sure that was the last of that, though.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I dunno, guess I'm old fashioned, but in my experience the "new" girl is rarely fond of the girl with some "history."  Fairly reliable absolute: death, taxes, and my GFs will never care for any of my ex's.   If this guy suddenly became single and said "hey, let's date and I don't care about the distance," would you be into that?  honestly?  If so, then the new girl is rightfully being protective (like most GFs do in that situation).  If not, then no big deal.  She'll have a tough time sharing him with you, but you have to soldier through it and take the higher road.

[bout to crash]

Well, things seem to be cool now. Like I said, I think she freaked a bit and then felt embarrassed, hence her very chill response to me... which is fine. I'd probably do the same thing.
If he wanted to date me, the answer would be no. We're just not compatible like that, plus I don't really do the long distance thing.