Author Topic: 425's Roulette v. We crown the skies with our tiara! (Final Results Inside!)  (Read 20790 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Welcome to my roulette!

I'm not sure how common this is, but I'm actually a roulette organizer who has never been a roulette participant. That's because, as you'll see when you look at my banned artists list, I simply don't have a big music library. I have followed a lot of roulettes on this forum, though, partly for fun and partly out of keeping track of things in waiting for my turn to come up. So I think I know how to run one, but if any of you veterans take a look at my rules or at something I'm doing as we proceed and see that I'm doing something that you think won't work, please don't hesitate to let me know.

I’m rather excited to see what kind of new music y’all will have to send me. I'm sure that all you people with huge music libraries have a lot of great stuff that I've never heard! That said, I feel I should say I’m interested in expanding my musical taste to genres outside of the prog rock/metal sphere, so I've included a couple of rules that are specifically designed to give a tangible benefit to people who send me songs that aren’t prog or metal. And also if you introduce me to a new genre or something I'll really like you, so there's that. I’ll certainly be happy to take any good prog or metal submissions you may, but you'll gain a slight advantage if you send material outside those genres from time to time.

I suppose I should try my best to describe my musical tastes. I’m a fan of melody above anything else. "Experimental" music is likely to be a miss if it is amelodic in nature. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is my least favorite Dream Theater album, if that tells you anything. I also tend to prefer bands that have a distinct sound (for example, I never really got into any of those really-DT sounding prog-power bands like Circus Maximus), though that’s certainly not a hard and fast rule—you’re welcome to try me and see, and it might work out for you. Beyond those generalizations, I like a wide diversity of music, as you’ll see in my banned artists list.

I know everyone likes to ask the growls question… I guess I’d say I’m not opposed to them if they work with the music, but there's also a chance I'll find them ill fitting and find them to detract from the music. I like Opeth, so there’s that, I guess, but… it’s also certainly possible that growls could turn me off of a song, so be wary before you send anything with growls.

That’s pretty much all I can give you (besides my banned artists list) on my musical taste. I don’t know how much it helps, but I imagine I will write long and rather detailed write-ups when I grade the songs for each round, so hopefully that will give people a chance to get a better understanding of what specific things I like or don’t like.

Round Themes:
ROUND 1: Open
ROUND 2: Open
ROUND 3: Open
ROUND 4: Sad
ROUND 5: Happy/Uplifting
ROUND 6: Epic
ROUND 7: Tiny Epic (less than 6 minutes)
ROUND 8: Open
ROUND 9: Make me an EP (30 minute max, 15 minute max per band)

Participants:
  • Scorpion
  • Parama
  • Evermind
  • Shadow Ninja 2.0
  • lonestar
  • TAC
  • kingshmegland
  • OpenYourEyes311
  • Big Hath
  • Sacul

I don't have a set number of participants that I'm looking for. I guess that 8 is probably a good number, but if a 9th person wants to join, I wouldn't lock them out. I will probably want to cap it at around 10, so let's say 8-10 participants is what I'm looking for.

Rules:
  • Each round is scored of ten.
  • No elimination.
  • The lowest score of each participant will be dropped at the end. This is to encourage risk-taking; so if you take a big risk and get a 2/10, it won't kill your chances.
  • I’ll trust people to not send me things that are too long without imposing a length limit, because I don’t want to draw an arbitrary line in the sand and say that a song of 9:58 is okay but 10:03 is not. That said, however, I will only spend so much time with the songs you give me, and will grade them based on how well I like them after that time, and anything too long usually takes a little while with me. So unless you are confident that I’ll love your 27-minute epic right off the bat, going shorter would typically be in your best interest. If things do get crazy, with multiple people sending me 20+ minute songs in a round or something (except the epic round, obviously), I might change this and impose a hard limit.
  • Bonus half point for something I judge to be outside prog and hard rock/metal (I’m not going to split hairs between what’s rock and what’s metal; if it’s heavy guitar-centric music, you won't get this half point). If it’s a song that falls out of these styles on an album that is one of these styles, though, I won’t award the half point (for instance, you would not get the half point if you sent me Wait for Sleep).
  • The final round will incorporate a wager. I'll finalize the details once we get there, but the essence will be that, in addition to your regular score, you'll be able to wager up to a certain amount on what your score for your EP will be. If you're within one point, you get the points you wagered, if not, you lose those points. If you win the wager and your EP scores a 9 or more, you'll get the points you wagered plus half again what you wagered. If you get a 9 or more and don't win the wager, you won't lose any points.

I hope people enjoy participating in this! Please send me good things!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 11:22:33 PM by 425 »
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 01:24:32 PM »
On my banned artists list, some of these artists are ones that I’m not very into at this time, and therefore you won’t be likely to score highly giving me something similar to them. Like if you send me something that sounds like Megadeth, that’s probably not going to score very well. To help y’all out, I’ve bolded the artists on this list who most accurately represent my current tastes. The italicized ones are artists that I've recently just started getting into and plan to get into more in the near future. I've only heard one or two albums from these, so just keep that in mind, but their whole discographies are banned.

Banned Artists:
Anathema
Black Sabbath
Blaze Bayley
Bon Iver
Bruce Dickinson
Bruce Hornsby (and the Range)
Coldplay
Death Cab for Cutie
Dio
Don Henley
Dream Theater
Flying Colors
Haken
IQ
Iron Maiden
Judas Priest
Led Zeppelin
Liquid Tension Experiment
Megadeth
Metallica
Neal Morse
Nightwish
Opeth
Pink Floyd
Porcupine Tree
Queensrÿche's Operation: Mindcrime only; all other albums are allowed
Rush
Sigur Rós
Spock’s Beard
Steve Harris
Steven Wilson
Taylor Swift
Transatlantic
Tuomas Holopainen
The Who
Yes

Banned During the Roulette:
311
After Forever
Alcest
Amethystium
Beach House
Ben Folds Five
Brand New
Burial
Butterfly Jones
Casualties of Cool
Christina Perri
Constantine*
Dada*
David Gilmour
David Maxim Micic
Deep Purple
Destrage
Devil Doll*
Devin Townsend
Dimension Act*
DJ Shadow
Enchant
Extreme
Fastball
Fates Warning
Frameshift
fun.
Gary Moore
Glass Mind*
God Is An Astronaut
Grateful Dead
Grayceon
Green Carnation*
Heavenly
Iris Divine
Janelle Monáe
Jon Lord
Justin Cross
Kevin Gilbert
Kingcrow
Kishi Bashi
Lo-Fi Resistance
Lorde
Maestrick*
Marillion
Mark Knopfler
McAuley Schenker Group
Michael Jackson
Mike Oldfield*
No-Man*
Oceansize*
OSI*
Pain of Salvation
Phideaux
Portishead
Redemption
Red House Painters
Riverside
Ronald Jenkees
Santigold
Seventh Wonder*
Snarky Puppy*
Steam Powered Giraffe*
Steve Rothery*
Styx*
Sufjan Stevens
Susanne Sundfør*
Symphony X*
Thank You Scientist
The Deadstation*
The Feeling
The Gentle Storm
The Lone Bellow
The Mayan Factor
The Pineapple Thief*
This Day & Age
Tower of Power
Umphrey's McGee

* = sent in the 7th or 8th round and therefore legal under certain parameters in Round 9.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 06:41:57 PM by 425 »
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 6218
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 01:27:02 PM »
hey man i think i have some stuff i can send you

if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 01:28:57 PM »
Excellent! Adding you to the OP now.
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Head Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 16347
  • Gender: Male
  • First Follower
    • Lady Obscure Music Magazine
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2015, 01:30:30 PM »
Eh, fuck it. I'll join...
Quote from: nightmare_cinema
So should lonestar and I have babies or something now, is that how this works?
Dang, you're easily the coolest fogey I know of

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28365
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2015, 01:32:49 PM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Online kingshmegland

  • defender of the brew!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 39299
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2015, 01:39:52 PM »
I'm in if you'll have me.
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 6218
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 01:45:18 PM »
uh also should i go ahead and send
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline OpenYourEyes311

  • Posts: 757
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2015, 01:48:15 PM »
Your list kinda looks similar to my own, so I probably have some songs you might find to be cool. I'll join...

I should probably ask how to send you the music, since I've never taken part in a Roulette.

Online Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4918
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 01:49:21 PM »
I'd like to participate
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 02:01:42 PM »
Wow, a lot of interest. You're all in. That's a total of nine, so let's say there's room for one more if anyone else wants to join.

I should probably ask how to send you the music, since I've never taken part in a Roulette.

I would most prefer being PM'd a YouTube link. I don't know if I'll be able to listen to a song on a Spotify link if I don't have a premium Spotify membership, does anyone know? If a Spotify link works, I'll take that as well. If your song isn't on either YouTube or Spotify, let me know in a PM and we can work something else out.

uh also should i go ahead and send

Sure, yeah, forgot to do this, I guess:

Round One: Open

Send me anything you want! I stacked most of the open rounds at the beginning so that you all have a good chance to get a feel for my music tastes before doing a few themed rounds.
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 6218
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 02:04:11 PM »
Cool! Sent.
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9302
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 02:06:00 PM »
Great! I don't play in many roulettes, and for some reason, most of the roulettes I've participated lately were elimination-based, so it'll be refreshing to play this one. Got a lot of awesome stuff to send you.

Since you've mentioned Wait for Sleep, what's your opinion of DT ballads like WFS, Vacant and This is the Life?

I'll send something tomorrow.

Offline OpenYourEyes311

  • Posts: 757
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 02:08:27 PM »
Cool, I can do youtube. I'll take a look at my shtuff when I get home and send you something tonight or early tomorrow.

Offline Scorpion

  • Unreal Heir
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9782
  • Gender: Male
  • Ragnarök around the Clöck!
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 02:47:08 PM »
I'm not a huge fan of wagers, but in the end it's your call.

Also will send soon. This will be about as far away from rock/metal as you can get - at least within my music library. :P
scorpion is my favorite deathcore lobster
Hey, the length is fine :azn: Thanks!

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Currently seeking participants
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 02:57:59 PM »
Since you've mentioned Wait for Sleep, what's your opinion of DT ballads like WFS, Vacant and This is the Life?

Love Wait for Sleep, it's in my top 15. Far From Heaven is top 10. I also like Vacant and This is the Life a lot; they would both make my top 50.

I'm not a huge fan of wagers, but in the end it's your call.

If a lot of y'all don't like the idea of a wager, I'll just remove it. My original reasoning for adding it was to a) add a greater deal of importance to the EP round, since that's more than just one song and b) make it possible for there to be a comeback on that round, since one of the things I've noticed with roulettes is often someone will take enough of a lead by the final round that it's hard for them not to win. I could potentially take out the wager and make the EP round a double score round, too, if people think that would be better? I'm open to suggestion on that.
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Offline Evermind

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9302
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2015, 03:17:23 PM »
Great, I'll probably send some ballads to you then. :tup

I like the double round idea more than the wager one, but I'll be fine either way, I guess.

Offline Parama

  • Six Roaming Owls
  • Posts: 14750
  • Official Fanclub President
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2015, 03:47:21 PM »
it's a shame the mini-epic is round 7, I'm sure the artist I have in mind will have been entered by then, blah  :lol
i might send you a different song for round 1 because it's an open round and I don't want some of the bigger-name artists to get stolen from me

Offline Sacul

  • Music elitist, stuff reader, video game addict.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7616
  • Gender: Male
  • Make it controversial!
    • Prog Talk Admin
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2015, 03:54:45 PM »
Are you ninjas or what, waiting for the thread's appearance? :lol I want to play if there's still place.

Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

  • Heir Transparent
  • Posts: 6218
  • Gender: Male
  • Transcribing Existence Rivets
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2015, 03:56:07 PM »
Are you ninjas or what, waiting for the thread's appearance? :lol I want to play if there's still place.

*raises eyebrow*
if the flow checks out and your rhymes are dope enough then the police start unholstering their guns

Offline Sacul

  • Music elitist, stuff reader, video game addict.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7616
  • Gender: Male
  • Make it controversial!
    • Prog Talk Admin
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2015, 04:01:44 PM »
I suppose I should try my best to describe my musical tastes. I’m a fan of melody above anything else. "Experimental" music is likely to be a miss if it is amelodic in nature. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is my least favorite Dream Theater album, if that tells you anything. I also tend to prefer bands that have a distinct sound (for example, I never really got into any of those really-DT sounding prog-power bands like Circus Maximus), though that’s certainly not a hard and fast rule—you’re welcome to try me and see, and it might work out for you.
We're so similar and different at the same time... :lol

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. One spot left
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2015, 04:07:47 PM »
Alright, you're in! Sacul takes the last spot! Let's see if you can take advantage of those similarities and avoid the pitfalls of our differences, which I guess would mean you should avoid sending me an SDOIT song. :P

That was a really, really fast registration process. As I've already said, round 1 is open. I'm eager to see what you all send me—almost half several of you have sent already! This will probably be the slowest of the rounds on my end because I have a couple of final exams and an essay to do between now and Tuesday, but once those are done it should hopefully be smooth sailing.
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Offline Sacul

  • Music elitist, stuff reader, video game addict.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7616
  • Gender: Male
  • Make it controversial!
    • Prog Talk Admin
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2015, 04:21:42 PM »
Nice. Before sending, two questions:

1) Does the song structure concern you much? Like, if something feels random (even if the individual parts are fantastic), would it earn less points than a more "structured" song?

2) Do you like some electronic music? ;D

Online kingshmegland

  • defender of the brew!
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 39299
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2015, 04:30:09 PM »
Sent!
“I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart

So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2015, 04:37:12 PM »
Nice. Before sending, two questions:

1) Does the song structure concern you much? Like, if something feels random (even if the individual parts are fantastic), would it earn less points than a more "structured" song?

2) Do you like some electronic music? ;D

1) I would say yes, song structure does concern me. I like a song to make sense as a whole composition. There are some cases where I imagine I could use my imagination and make sense out of some things that don't necessarily seem cohesive at first, but there's a limit to that, and it takes time. Which means that my first impression might be more negative than my later impression. Which is obviously not quite what you want in a roulette. So the short answer is yes, song structure concerns me.

2) Yes please. I don't really know the first thing about the genre at all and my only exposure to it has been in the music of pop and prog artists that I like who include components of it (like the song Distant Satellites by Anathema), but it's one of the genres about which I am most curious. The one thing I would say about that is that I really don't appreciate when songs include amelodic or grating parts, which seems like something that some but by no means all electronic artists might do? In any case I definitely am interested in seeing what that genre has to offer.
Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Online TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28365
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2015, 05:50:58 PM »
Sent!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Sacul

  • Music elitist, stuff reader, video game addict.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7616
  • Gender: Male
  • Make it controversial!
    • Prog Talk Admin
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2015, 06:19:15 PM »
The one thing I would say about that is that I really don't appreciate when songs include amelodic or grating parts, which seems like something that some but by no means all electronic artists might do?
Not really, some more in the techno style can be like that (like Autechre at times), or not (as BoC). Industrial can be really weird though. But anyways, it can be a bit tough to get into it in general, since it's realm is as big as rock and metal, with infinite subgenres.

Let's see what I can send you :P .

Online Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4918
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2015, 08:56:47 PM »
My round one submission is making it's way to you now through a series of tubes.
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline Parama

  • Six Roaming Owls
  • Posts: 14750
  • Official Fanclub President
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2015, 01:35:43 AM »
I make an entries list in advance and as a result I'm super happy with the EP I made, even though I'm gonna have to replace probably 2+ songs off it by the time we get to round 9  :lol

Offline bl5150

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 7661
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2015, 01:45:23 AM »
I make an entries list in advance and as a result I'm super happy with the EP I made, even though I'm gonna have to replace probably 2+ songs off it by the time we get to round 9  :lol

That's always a good idea.  When I know I'm going to be in a roulette I create a playlist in iTunes and as I'm listening I keep that person in the back of my mind and if I think they'll like it just add the song to the playlist.  Only trouble is when the waiting list takes 6 months to get through...............I have 100+ songs in my TAC roulette playlist  :lol  Some trimming required  :angel:
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 01:54:17 AM by bl5150 »
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

Offline Parama

  • Six Roaming Owls
  • Posts: 14750
  • Official Fanclub President
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2015, 02:26:20 AM »
i vaguely try to tailor my entries to the person's interest but mostly I pick stuff from my library that I think is worth sharing

but like nothing they'd outright hate hopefully  :lol


Offline OpenYourEyes311

  • Posts: 757
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2015, 07:40:16 AM »
Sent.

Just so I know, should we be describing the song/why we like it as we send, or just send it and see what you think?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 08:19:25 AM by OpenYourEyes311 »

Offline 425

  • Posts: 4040
  • Gender: Male
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2015, 08:05:58 AM »
I'm far from an expert on that (as someone who is also involved in one of these for the first time), but from my limited experience in getting most of one round of entries, it seems like a matter of personal preference. Some people have just sent me a link while others have gone into descriptions of the artist, what they like about the artist and the song, etc. So I would say if you want to write something, you can, and I'll definitely read it and everything, but if you would rather just send me the song, you can also do that.

I have songs from everyone but lonestar for the first round. No rush, though.

Iron Maiden Survivor 2016-17
Results & Discussion

The Iron Maiden Survivor is now being run by wolfking

Online Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4918
Re: 425's Roulette v. Entry Closed. Round 1 Underway.
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2015, 08:17:43 AM »
I have songs from everyone but lonestar for the first round. No rush, though.

that's because they were on your banned list.  I would have been very surprised if someone sent something from them.  :biggrin:
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.