Author Topic: The Benefits of Home Ownership?  (Read 99509 times)

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Online gmillerdrake

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #350 on: June 04, 2018, 08:39:23 AM »
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)
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Offline cramx3

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #351 on: June 04, 2018, 08:43:43 AM »
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)

You could also use what you did as a learning experience and do something even cooler for your next home.

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #352 on: June 04, 2018, 08:48:46 AM »
I'm still pissed that I won't be able to see the oasis full of lush plants. :getoffmylawn: Rationalize it any way you want, Gary. Your still a disappointment.

I know...I know....Believe me, that back yard is the only thing that makes me any bit sad about leaving this house. From the patio to that natural rock wall, it's EXACTLY how I envisioned it would look and it's 'this' close to being finished. It's a bummer to leave something that you worked hard making but I'll create something better at the next house.  ;)

You could also use what you did as a learning experience and do something even cooler for your next home.

very true. Already know that while it's great and all and we love it.....a 25' long x 20' wide patio is a bit excessive. When I drew it up on CAD it looked like a good fit for that corner of the house but after seeing it built I could have trimmed that down a hair and saved some $$ and yard space and still had a killer patio.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #353 on: June 05, 2018, 07:56:35 AM »
9pm last night, after wife, 3-year old and 7-month old are asleep:   Garage door opener control pad starts beeping intermittently with flashing lights. 

Kid's bedrooms are directly above the garage, so I don't want to mess with it too much and wake them up.  So I disconnect the control pad to keep the beeping from continuing and waking them up and research via google (garage door installation company left me with no instructions for the pad).  Google results make me believe that the control pad went kaput, but remotes in the cars will still work.  Don't want to test and wake kids up.

5am - leaving for work....remotes in cars do not open the garage.  Unplug/replug opener.  Lights go on.  Door will not open.   >:(

Hastily disengage door and fight to get it up (I have a side-mounted opener and had to hold the pull handle down with one hand and try to lift the door with a combination of my other hand and a foot, all while dressed for work)  Race to catch the train to work.  Thankfully the garage door company will send someone out this afternoon - worse case will be replacing the entire opener, which I think was about $500 for this model.  Ugh.

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #354 on: June 05, 2018, 08:07:13 AM »
^^^^^ Nothing worse than when technology fails....and it's a system that you know little about. Like, you rely on it to work all the time. Automatic Garage door openers are one of them. Probably a 'simple' fix but it's something you/we NEVER really have to fix and when it goes out you're like 'WTF?'
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Offline Grappler

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #355 on: June 05, 2018, 07:06:35 PM »
$140 for repairs/maintenance.  The control pad broke down and the tech said it's a common problem (also per my fabulous google searches).  So he replaced it.  I saw last night that the control pad is around $50, so we paid for a bit of labor too.  At least the guy did some maintenance on the rails too.  I just don't have the time right now to futz around with buying a pad on my own and installing it to hope that it works.

At least it's fixed!

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #356 on: June 05, 2018, 08:20:51 PM »
Nothing like dropping a quick $140....geez. Just to make you feel a bit better, our microwave made an interesting ‘pop’ noise a couple nights ago then would not heat anything. Just made a really cool noise almost grinding noise yet it was electrical in nature like it  was going to detonate at any moment.

I stopped by the appliance store we bought it from 4 years ago and asked his opinion on who was best to call for repair. He told me....I called them. It’d have been $130 just to get them to my house....minimum 1 hour labor @ $125 on top of whatever the part/parts they’d have to order.  :omg:

I went back and talked to the manager of the store and he said a new one was $275 before tax (it’s part of the Frigidaire Gallery Series Kitchen Appliance Set) so I just ordered a new one. Picking it up tomorrow.

You gotta love those random, unexpected costs of owning a home.  :tup

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #357 on: June 05, 2018, 08:36:17 PM »
Appliance quality ain't what it used to be.  That said, mrs.jingle and I are still on the same microwave we got when we first moved in together 20 years ago!!
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Online gmillerdrake

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #358 on: June 05, 2018, 11:02:30 PM »
Appliance quality ain't what it used to be.  That said, mrs.jingle and I are still on the same microwave we got when we first moved in together 20 years ago!!

Things like that are intentionally built to break.  It’s one of the things I detest about a consumerism society.....nothing is built to last anymore it’s all built to stop working after a few short years so you ‘have’ to buy another new one.
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Online lordxizor

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #359 on: June 06, 2018, 06:08:12 AM »
In all fairness to the appliance manufacturers, if consumers demanded high quality and were willing to pay more for it, they would provide it. As a society, we are always looking for the cheapest cost for everything, usually at the expense of quality. We aren't willing to pay $1000 for a microwave that will last 30 years. We'd rather pay $300 for one that will last 5-8 years. We like to bitch about companies no longer providing quality like they used to, but it's our own damn fault they do it.

For me a huge part of it is the insane cost of repairs. When it's over $100 just for them to walk in the door it quickly becomes not worth trying to repair anything anymore.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #360 on: June 06, 2018, 06:33:59 AM »
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #361 on: June 06, 2018, 06:37:01 AM »
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #362 on: June 06, 2018, 06:43:46 AM »
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.

Start saving... you'll be buying again in 5-ish years.   :biggrin:
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #363 on: June 06, 2018, 06:44:05 AM »
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.
Not sure if your numbers are inflation adjusted, but you can't forget about that. A $1000 refrigerator in 1970 would cost $6000 today and not many people are spending that much for a refrigerator.

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #364 on: June 06, 2018, 06:45:53 AM »
I'm getting a new Fridge and stove delivered Saturday.  First set We've bought since moving into our house 14 years ago.

Start saving... you'll be buying again in 5-ish years.   :biggrin:

Kenmore has never done me wrong.......so far.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #365 on: June 06, 2018, 06:47:11 AM »
My parents fridge in 1977 cost $359.

I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #366 on: June 06, 2018, 06:58:19 AM »
Planned obsolescence is certainly part of the problem, but I think that is in large part driven by the consumer. Though there is definitely some corporate greed at play.

A $359 fridge in 1970 would cost over $2000 today, which is not out of the question, but there are tons of fridges for well less than that and I'm guess they sell very well.

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #367 on: June 06, 2018, 07:17:04 AM »
Oh and there are models out there that do cost that.  SS bodies, with ice and water dispensers.  I got no frills on mine.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #368 on: June 06, 2018, 07:27:47 AM »
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/  -  $359 in 1977 = $1,488 today.

As I said, we're paying about the same today (inflation adjusted) for lesser quality (by-and-large).
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #369 on: June 06, 2018, 07:29:25 AM »
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!


I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs. 

To a point and not indefinitely. The greatest gains in these areas were during the 1990s. Diminishing returns now, unless they move the plant to Singapore, of course.

You want appliances that are built to last and perhaps even become family heirlooms?  Don't buy the least expensive model at the most affordable store.

BTW, Sears has never been a manufacturer of appliances. Everything that has ever worn the label Kenmore, Hotspot or Coldspot is simply another companies product private labeled to Sears. What you're really getting is a Whirlpool, GE or Fridgidare depending on the appliance.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #370 on: June 06, 2018, 07:39:28 AM »
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!

I'll assume you forgot to put that in green font.  ;)  I always go with Consumers Reports highly rated appliances / best value for money.  Last month, our 2-year old coffee maker (Cuisinart - $200... 2nd time we had that model already) just refused to start the brewing cycle.  I buy middle / top shelf precisely because I don't want to be regularly replacing big ticket items.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #371 on: June 06, 2018, 08:05:01 AM »
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!


I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs. 

To a point and not indefinitely. The greatest gains in these areas were during the 1990s. Diminishing returns now, unless they move the plant to Singapore, of course.

You want appliances that are built to last and perhaps even become family heirlooms?  Don't buy the least expensive model at the most affordable store.

BTW, Sears has never been a manufacturer of appliances. Everything that has ever worn the label Kenmore, Hotspot or Coldspot is simply another companies product private labeled to Sears. What you're really getting is a Whirlpool, GE or Fridgidare depending on the appliance.

Yup.  I've known that.  The quality is still very good.  Never had issues and great longevity.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #372 on: June 06, 2018, 08:06:44 AM »
Shit. Chad, $200 for a coffee maker?  I've never spent more than $60. :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #373 on: June 06, 2018, 08:14:58 AM »
Shit. Chad, $200 for a coffee maker?  I've never spent more than $60. :lol

It has a built in grinder, and is a stainless steel carafe - which seemingly is a rarity these days.

Plus...  CAD
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline cramx3

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #374 on: June 06, 2018, 08:30:10 AM »
I just buy the cheap stuff (assuming it still fits my needs/wants) and have the expectation it won't last.  Nothing does these days.  I just buy the $80 vacuum cleaner and am happy to get a few years out of it and don't think twice when it breaks to toss it and get another cheap one.

If it was something more important, like a fridge, I could see myself going for a better option though.

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #375 on: June 06, 2018, 08:38:48 AM »
I have this craft style one that you push your cup against a button and the coffee pours out.  No more old school glass.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #376 on: June 06, 2018, 08:48:15 AM »
I call bullshit on that.  The technology advancements reduce costs; manufacturing process improvements reduct costs; supply chain efficiencies reduce costs.  That 20-year old microwave I own cost me only a few hun back in 1998.  Appliances that my parents bought in the 70s wouldn't have cost multiple thousands - probably the same $1500-$2000 for a fridge, or $500-$1000 for a dishwasher.  I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

We pay about the same for lower quality shit these days.

And ever-increasing raises for workers doing the same job they did in 1974 raise costs.  Forced healthcare for ALL employees raises costs.  Insurance for lawsuits from morons that burn their taste-buds from hot coffee raises costs.  Unilateral and forced compliance with global environmental standards raises costs.  If  you're going to parse out the "cost of goods sold" you have to go whole hog on that puppy and look at ALL the costs. 

I worked for GE for about a decade, and for a time I was part of the group that had Appliances, Lighting and Consumer Electronics (circuit breakers and shit like that, not coffee pots and stereos).   Single greatest line item in the manufacturing COGS?   HEALTHCARE.  Second biggest?  LABOR.    Wasn't third, but in the top five or so?  ENVIRONMENTAL. 

Goods are not purposefully built to have a shorter life-span, but whoever said that consumers are not willing to pay what it actually costs for quality was spot on.  They're just not.   People pay for features, plain and simple.   Plus you factor in that people don't maintain like they used to - how many times have you vacuumed the dust out of your microwave?  I have a complete DT catalogue that says "NEVER" - and you have a shorter lifespan.     

Oh, and "corporate greed"?  The margin on appliances is as thin as the gossamer wings on a Victoria Secret model.   They would work around 5% to 7% overall (it varied, though, across products; refrigerators weren't the same as, say, air conditioners or stoves).   That's about 1/10th the margin of that phone that's in your hand right now showing videos from Pornhub.   Microsoft and Apple generally are in the 35% range.  Most businesses are in the 20% range.   The geniuses on Shark Tank would laugh you out of the studio if you came in and said "My margins are 5%!".   Mr. Wonderful:  "I'm out!". 

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #377 on: June 06, 2018, 08:49:49 AM »
I've gone thru 2 stoves, 3 diswhashers, 3 coffee makers, 2 toaster ovens, and 2 fridges in the last 16 years I've lived in my current house.  I can't believe that is anything but planned obsolescence.

Have you ever thought it might be you? Sounds to me like you need to open your check book and buy better quality appliances!

I'll assume you forgot to put that in green font.  ;)  I always go with Consumers Reports highly rated appliances / best value for money.  Last month, our 2-year old coffee maker (Cuisinart - $200... 2nd time we had that model already) just refused to start the brewing cycle.  I buy middle / top shelf precisely because I don't want to be regularly replacing big ticket items.

And yet, you have replaced your dishwasher 3 times in 16 years. I bought a Fisher Paykel dual in 2001 for $1,400 and have never had it serviced, never had to replace a part and it has only failed once. It failed because I hadn't cleaned the seal on the bottom drawer well enough so water leaked onto the control PC board. The board was designed so well that the troubleshooting guide that came with my machine literally said to dry it out with a hair dryer and press the reset button. Now that's great engineering and it worked like a charm.

I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic

I just buy the cheap stuff (assuming it still fits my needs/wants) and have the expectation it won't last.  Nothing does these days.  I just buy the $80 vacuum cleaner and am happy to get a few years out of it and don't think twice when it breaks to toss it and get another cheap one.

See, this is also what I'm on about. I bought one of the DC14 Dysons in the early 2000's and it still works fantastic. It will probably out live me.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #378 on: June 06, 2018, 08:58:07 AM »
As an aside, the frig in my house is best guess 20 years old, and we're looking at a new one.  We've already upgraded the dishwasher, the stove (I went to gas, babay!) and now the frig is next.   They have refrigerators now that I can theoretically reply to you old farts FROM THE TOUCH SCREEN.  How whack is that?  I thought refrigerators were to keep my eggs cold, and give me ice for my vodka soda splash of ginger that I use to escape after the kids go to bed? 

And they have these neat "pocket doors" (I don't know what the marketing phrase is for them) that you can open without opening the full fridge to get your drinks or other small items.   How great/lazy as f*** is that!   :) :) :)

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #379 on: June 06, 2018, 09:01:23 AM »
I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic

Vinegar will do the same thing, and it's a lot cheaper.  2 Cups of vinegar in the cycle and it will remove all of the scale buildup in the machine (and on dishes too!). 

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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #380 on: June 06, 2018, 09:06:51 AM »

Goods are not purposefully built to have a shorter life-span, but whoever said that consumers are not willing to pay what it actually costs for quality was spot on.  They're just not.   People pay for features, plain and simple.   Plus you factor in that people don't maintain like they used to - how many times have you vacuumed the dust out of your microwave?  I have a complete DT catalogue that says "NEVER" - and you have a shorter lifespan.     


The bolded can't be stressed enough. Stad's is dead on with this. Commercial versions of consumer appliances are completely opposite.

All the whizzbang features on consumer Dryers, for example, are not necessary for drying clothes and add complexity that creates failures. Anything man made will fail. Period. Commercial dryers that run day in and day out for decades have a temperature setting and a time setting. That's it. They aren't programmable (unless it's a coin-op), they don't inject steam for "wrinkle-release", they don't have moisture detection, they don't play a happy tune when they're done, they won't send you a text message. All the money spent on manufacturing them goes into making them strong and easy to clean the lint from.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #381 on: June 06, 2018, 09:08:54 AM »
I don't know, maybe I have better luck because I tend to schedule in maintenance for my stuff. For example, I clean the dishwasher every two - three months. It takes about 10 minutes and two bottles of this stuff Dishwasher magic

Vinegar will do the same thing, and it's a lot cheaper.  2 Cups of vinegar in the cycle and it will remove all of the scale buildup in the machine (and on dishes too!).

I don't know, we have pretty hard water out here, but I'll give it a try. Really, I need to get off my dead ass and install a quality water softener, that would cure a lot of issues I think.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #382 on: June 06, 2018, 09:12:08 AM »
@ Stads and the cost issue.  I'm not disputing your knowledge as it relates to GE, but on the whole, puh-leeze.  First, you're suggesting that wage-inflation is greater than general inflation.  Inflation adjusted earnings are fairly flat since the mid-70s.  Second, how many appliances are actually built in the US? I know for TVs and blu-ray players, it's somewhere in the range of 0%.  Samsung and LG are also pretty big players in the general household appliance space.

This wasn't meant to be a discussion on wages and healthcare costs, so I don't want to derail it in that direction.

And yet, you have replaced your dishwasher 3 times in 16 years.

Precisely my point... quality is not what it used to be.  For clarity, I meant to say I'm *on* my 3rd dishwasher - not that I've replaced it 3 times.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #383 on: June 06, 2018, 09:12:48 AM »
I was told by a repair guy that the front load washers cost a bot load to repair.  Stay with the top load.  I got an energy saver version of the top load.  Only $550.00.
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Re: The Benefits of Home Ownership?
« Reply #384 on: June 06, 2018, 09:22:26 AM »
There is a certain level of nostalgia about old things as well. Not to say they weren't built stronger and last at least somewhat longer back then, but I think that gets overblown a bit. Everyone looks at their grandparents 1970's fridge that's still running and laments the loss of quality over the years. No one remembers their uncle, cousin, neighbor, and everyone else they know that had to replace their fridge multiple times in the time frame. We look at the one outlier that has lasted a long time and draw conclusions about everything.