The DC Movies Thread v AQUAMAN

[Adami]

Imagine the reactions in the crowd if Nic Cage bursts out of the coffin and Henry Cavill is nowhere to be found

Well Jackie would probably become spontaneously pregnant.

[Outcrier]

Looks like Loki with a Superman costume 

[King Postwhore]

If you haven't seen that documentary about the failed Tim Burtonsville Superman movie watch it. It's very interestinteresting.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Loved  B V S.   Eisenberg was absolutely fantastic. Agree that this Lex was too much like the Joker, but I don't blame the actor for the script.

Music was incredible as always, A lot of good acting, especially Irons and Affleck.  I don't mind so much about what they did to Doomsday, because I've never read the comics and never will.

[Kotowboy]

I did enjoy the score. WW's theme was exciting and overall much more memorable than Man Of Steel.

[Accelerando]

He wasn't resurrected by sunlight when Doomsday killed him in the comics.

From interviews I've read with Snyder, he has no idea yet how they will do it.  Which doesn't surprise me.

What are you talking about? They are about to start principle filming for Justice League in two weeks. I'm pretty sure they figured it out 

Or rather, whatever Snyder has in his mind. 



I haven't gotten around to write my full review here yet, but it's basically my thoughts on Man of Steel. An entertaining movie with LOADS of problems. I don't think it's as bad as the critics are painting it to be. However, at this point of the DCEU, it's time for Warner Brothers to boot Snyder. I gave him a second chance to blow me away with my all time favorite superheroes, and he hasn't delivered a cohesive film. I'm working on a big commercial in Burbank this week and I haven't been sleeping well, so ya'll will get my full review soon.

[Zantera]

How much do you guys think we'll see of Superman in JL? I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is no Superman until the very end of Part 1 when he returns and that most of Part 1 focuses on Batman/WW assembling the team and Darkseid (who I assume will be the villain) covering the earth in darkness basically. Unless they resurrect Superman early and make him the bad guy of Part 1 with him turning good at the end to help the team recover in Part 2.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Found this online.......wow!

Spoilers to follow.

https://nonsensicalramblings.com/think-pieces-unlinked-2/2016/3/25/batman-v-superman-the-theory-of-a-waking-knightmare

March 25, 2016
Batman V Superman: The Theory of a Waking Knightmare
Nathan Lindsey Movies
*SPOILER WARNING*

If you’ve seen Batman v Superman this past weekend then, like me, you most likely had many more questions than answers about the future of the DC Universe. Ever since I saw the early showings Thursday night, something about the Knightmare Sequence was troubling me. I had to see it again, but now I’ve worked out all the flaws in my theory. HERE IS YOUR SECOND SPOILER WARNING.

Let me start off by addressing the criticism that this particular sequence has gotten. I’ve seen many reviews saying that this really felt out of place, and that the Flash’s reveal here seemed shoehorned. Now to the laymen, this might seem the case. Unfortunately, that became a reoccurring theme (that you needed a strong prior index of DC knowledge going in). But have no fear, this sequence was perfectly placed in the movie. Hear me out, and I think you might agree.

In the Knightmare sequence, we see a war-torn environment not too far off from the world we see in such nuclear apocalyptic games such as Fallout New Vegas or settings like the Book of Eli: basically a big desert waste land with deteriorating buildings from what one can only assume is the remainder of Gotham or Metropolis. Right off the bat (pun intended), we see the Omega Symbol. This little tidbit didn’t come as too much of a surprise, because the still image was released before the movie’s debut. However, it comes to play a very important role in this theory. Next we see Batman, who at this point has become a hardened killer (because really what’s the point of a no kill rule when everybody’s already dead) come up to inspect a semi-truck load with who can only be assumed to be the Sons of Batman, or at the least background characters meant to mirror them. There’s a box in the back of the truck which opens up to reveal a glowing green light and the audience thinks “oh okay, it’s kryptonite” right around the time you realize it was all a set up. Cue the Sons of Superman coming in fighting alongside Parademons from Apokolips (oh yes, that is definitely what they are). They basically murder the Sons of Batman and capture Batman. The next part of the sequence is Batman being chained up, Superman personally executing the remaining Sons of Batman, and then murdering the Bat himself.

Cue one of the most important scenes for the Justice League and the foundation of this theory. A rift opens up in time and space in front of him in the Batcave, waking Bruce from the dream (of sorts), and the Flash makes an appearance. “BRUCE!” he screams, halfway through the portal/halfway still in “LISTEN TO ME RIGHT NOW! IT’S LOIS! LOIS LANE! SHE’S THE KEY!”. Then his voice begins to falter. But still yelling he cries, “AM I TOO SOON? TOO SOON. YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT HIM; YOU WERE ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT HIM. FEAR HIM! FEAR HIM AND FIND US YOU HAVE TO FIND US BRUCE!”. Then with a loud crack as suddenly as he appeared, he vanishes into the portal, and Bruce wakes up at his desk for a second time.

Now the viewer is left stunned, not knowing how much of what Bruce just saw was real or a dream. I’m about to explain the theory, but there’s still some other parts of the movie that we need to briefly address. At one point during the Doomsday fight, WonderWoman said “I've killed things from other worlds before”. If you read into Thymescira, the Island of the Amazons, it’s no secret they know all about the Gods of New Genesis (suffice to say for now that this means she’s in the know about a certain someone this theory revolves around). At the end of the movie, Lex Luthor is trying to convey to Batman that something is in motion, and it is already too late for the world. He keeps talking about the announcement of Superman’s death, and how it has reached the other important beings in space now that there is no one left to protect Earth from whatever it is that’s coming. When Cyborg is revealed in this film we see a MotherBox form into his tech, bringing him alive. At this point you probably see where I’m going with this if you know about some iterations of the Justice Leagues formation, particularly in the Animated Films. But, here is the Knightmare Theory in full.

What we saw in Bruce’s Knightmare was NOT a dream sequence that symbolized his internal fear of what Superman will become if left unchecked; rather, Bruce Wayne himself mistakes the sequence for this at the time. What were actually occurring were Bruce’s memories from a parallel timeline collapsing in on themselves, similar to the seizures the Flash experiences in the story Flashpoint. The reason why Superman was fighting alongside Parademons, why we see an omega symbol burned into the earth, and why they showed us a MotherBox in cyborg's sequence was to foreshadow the coming of Darksied. Darksied, for those who don’t follow the comics, is a demi-God ruler of a hellish planet (and I mean that very literally) whose power level frequently goes well above Superman's. His ultimate goal is to control the universe. To accomplish this he seeks out planets with life and invades them with devices called MotherBoxes, technology that among other things allows intergalactic travel instantaneously. He terraforms and/or destroys the planet, steals its resources for himself, captures every living thing, and organically changes it on a molecular scale into monsters called Parademons. Parademons serve and die for him. Then he uses parademons to invade the next planet. He also gains followers who he does not turn into monsters by using an Anti-Life Equation; something that works with a similar property to a magic possession spell, that when exposed to forces you to serve Darksied. If that doesn’t give you an idea of how bad news this guy is, let me just say that the only time the Justice League in comics have ever actually defeated him (instead of just sending him back to where he came from), it ripped apart time and space while collapsing reality in an event called Final Crisis.

The coming of Darksied was actually what Bruce was seeing in the Knightmare sequence. The reason Superman was acting the way he was is because Darksied sees the Man of Steel as too strong of an asset to simply kill. Rather, he wants to use the Anti-Life equation to force Superman to work for him. This is what has happened in the Knightmare sequence. Superman has either by choice or by force been made to work for Darksied. When the Flash appears to Bruce, he is not warning Bruce about an out of control Superman; he is warning him about Darksied. He says Lois Lane is the key, which she hardly was in this movie, and that Bruce should “fear him”. One of the most critical pieces of evidence for this theory we receive is Flash asks if he’s “too soon”. He was. The death of Superman had not happened yet so Bruce would not understand the coming of Darksied. He mistakes it for Superman trying to rule earth. This is why at the end of the movie, Bruce explains to Diana (Wonderwoman) that he still wants to find the other Heroes, even if they’re not ready to be found. He states “has a feeling” that something else is still coming. Nice feeling Bruce, Flash screamed it at you.

Everything Lex Luthor says at the end of the movie correlates with this theory as well. Lex knows all too well about Darksied. This is why he was practically crying when he was talking to Batman about it. Lex had seen the data from the universe on the Kryptonion ship’s database, and had asked the computer to teach him about it. Lex goes on and on at the end about how news of the death of Superman had already been spread further than earth. He even says, “He’s hungry. He's coming. He's found us.” when he is warning Batman about what’s out there. Cyborg's scene showed that Motherboxes are already on earth and are operational. The symbolism of the painting in Lex Luthor’s home about the devils coming from the sky is not completely about Superman. It’s about Darksied’s invaders and lieutenants. When Lex realized he would not be able to control Doomsday, he had lost faith that humanity has any angels from the ground to fight for them.

So whenever I hear people criticizing the Knightmare sequence for seemingly being out of place, or the best one I’ve heard is it looks like an after credits scene, I agree with them. It’s like that on purpose. It’s why Flash was pointing out that he was too soon. The reason Bruce has his parallel memories collapse in on him at such a weird time is because of the Flash appearing to him at the wrong time. Flash was “too soon” and so were the memories. Fear not though Junior Justice Members, the Batman seems to be on the case by the end of the movie. Wonderwoman is right behind him which is good, because our favorite heroes are going to need all the help they can get for what’s coming.

[Kotowboy]

Those dreams were my favourite sequences.

When all those flying people showed up and the twin helicopters appeared i thought it looked almost exactly like some fever dreams i've had. Really intense.

[faizoff]

That's a really good write up and certainly gives justification for several scenes. But for a standalone movie it unfortunately doesn't work. Not that I care since I enjoyed the movie, warts and all. But good info nonetheless, thanks for sharing.

[hefdaddy42]

That probably IS what those scenes represent, AFAIK.  However, the reason that it has been criticized as being "out of place" is because the film apparently doesn't explain them in any way. 

Details or easter eggs can be explained by off-screen theories/explanations, but major plot points on screen should have some basis of explanation, even if only hinted, on screen.

[Kotowboy]

That probably IS what those scenes represent, AFAIK.  However, the reason that it has been criticized as being "out of place" is because the film apparently doesn't explain them in any way. 

Details or easter eggs can be explained by off-screen theories/explanations, but major plot points on screen should have some basis of explanation, even if only hinted, on screen.

Yes. As we discussed before about the SW Prequels. I don't care if explanations for such and such are explained in novels or comics. If it's not on-screen then it didn't happen.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

If this theory is correct, there was no one there to explain it on screen (well, other than Lex proclaiming that "he" is coming).  Bruce took the vision for a dream and without context, it became more fuel for his beef with Superman. 

I think that the next movie will tie all of this together nicely, and that's fine by me.

[Zantera]

The time travel stuff and the extent of The Flash's powers is a fairly confusing thing that unless it's explained really well, will completely baffle 90% of the audience though. I haven't seen the tv-show, but from what I've heard, they deal with that stuff really well there. I think they are gonna face a big challenge in the DCU because his powers are hard to explain in a way that everyone understands them. He doesn't just run fast, he can cross over into other realities and things like that are gonna be hard to explain I think.

[Kotowboy]

My main gripe when I saw the film was that my only choice was 3D and the film is already so dark and drab that the 3D glasses made it almost impossible to follow.

Noticed virtually zero stereoscopy and had to keep removing glasses to see what was happening...

3D is just a massive scam. They charge you more for a vastly inferior movie going experience.

The only two 3D films i've enjoyed were Prometheus and Avatar. Life of Pi at a push.

[Zantera]

Yeah I'm with you on the 3D part. Sucks putting a pair of goggles on your eyes rather than taking in the screen as it looks, without any filters in between. Unfortunately, as the 3D trend is slowly dying out, James Cameron will soon return with Avatar 2 and it will explode again. THANKS JIM

[hefdaddy42]

If this theory is correct, there was no one there to explain it on screen (well, other than Lex proclaiming that "he" is coming). 

That's a problem with the screenplay and the director.  The story has to be told in such a way that it makes some kind of sense as to what is going on, even if still leaving some things unanswered.

[Zantera]

News about Suicide Squad possibly having reshoots to make it more fun and lighthearted.

One question... isn't it weird that our heroes are dark, murderous lunatics who doesn't care much at all for the lives of innocent people, and that the bad guys are gonna be the fun and jokey ones? I don't think WB/DC thought this through.

[jammindude]

If that's true, they just ruined the only DC movie I was interested in seeing.

[Adami]

News about Suicide Squad possibly having reshoots to make it more fun and lighthearted.

One question... isn't it weird that our heroes are dark, murderous lunatics who doesn't care much at all for the lives of innocent people, and that the bad guys are gonna be the fun and jokey ones? I don't think WB/DC thought this true.

Really? It looked pretty humorous as was. Maybe the movie wasn't as fun as the trailers made it seem, but I hope they don't go overboard, because I was super pumped for that movie based on the trailers. (oddly enough, I am least excited for the Joker).

[Adami]

So, I watched Man of Steel for the first time yesterday and watched Batman V. Superman just now.

So, Man of Steel is pretty bad. In a ton of ways. I think Russel Crow is the only actor trying in it. Michael Shannon seems like he's sleep walking through this, and between this movie and Batman V. Superman, poor Henry Cavil is just not a great actor in this role. You can tell he's trying hard, but just coming off stiff. Anyway, Man of Steel was pretty bad. From the beginning straight out of Avatar/Star Wars prequels, to the plot that made little sense, to the excessive amount of destruction. It also has a really bad narrative structure to it. Ah well.

Batman V. Superman was...okay. Not great, not bad. Entertaining for sure, but overall pretty dumb. I loved Affleck as Batman, and I loved Wonder Woman. I even liked Cavil as Clark, just not as Superman. The plot was pretty awful and just way too all over the place. I think the only parts I thought were clever (although still poorly placed in the film) is the future visions/Flash cameo. My assumption is that Superman comes back essentially as a villain and the first Justice League movie is with Superman as the pawn victim with someone (Darkseid or Lex) pulling his strings, and that the Flash will have to travel through time to fix something, leading to the second Justice League movie where they fight Darkseid directly. It would be a clever idea, though I doubt it will play out like that. However, having Bruce have those visions and then having him wake up after Flash's cameo really didn't make any sense at all.

Over all, I'd place it a bit below Avengers 2.

[Zantera]

I also liked BvS more than Superman. If nothing else, it had Batman and that alone made it better.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Man of Steel had Zod and no Angry Batman. 
BvS had Angry Batman and corpse Zod.

Sort of equals out for me.

[The Trooper]

I do not know if anybody has seen this documentary, but it is very good. Well worth a watch. It tells the story of why the Nick Cage superman movie never got made. Called The Death of Superman Lives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWOJURqc5vE

[Kotowboy]

Superman (1978)
Superman II
Superman Returns / Man Of Steel
Superman III
Superman IV
Dawn Of Justice
Iron Man 2

[King Postwhore]

III & IV better than Dawn Of Justice?  Kotowboy, it's time to get a check up.

[Kotowboy]

III & IV better than Dawn Of Justice?  Kotowboy, it's time to get a check up.

At least they had Superman in.

[King Postwhore]

 

That did not help with those films.

[hefdaddy42]

III & IV better than Dawn Of Justice?  Kotowboy, it's time to get a check up.

I haven't even seen Dawn of Justice yet, and I know that it's better than those two abortions.  And they certainly aren't better than Iron Man 2, or anything else produced by Marvel Studios.

Offhand, I can't think of any real films that I would rank under Superman III or Superman IV.  Those things are putrid, and have no redeeming value.

[Kotowboy]

Freddy Got Fingered.

American Pie 3

Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

[hefdaddy42]

Maybe Freddy Got Fingered, it's pretty bad.  But at least it is its own original awful, not the raping of a well-loved character.  That just seems worse to me.

I wouldn't put American Pie 3 or Jay & Silent Bob anywhere near that kind of discussion.  They might not be to everyone's tastes, but they aren't just legitimately awful films.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Maybe Freddy Got Fingered, it's pretty bad.  But at least it is its own original awful, not the raping of a well-loved character.  That just seems worse to me.

I wouldn't put American Pie 3 or Jay & Silent Bob anywhere near that kind of discussion.  They might not be to everyone's tastes, but they aren't just legitimately awful films.

Agree with all of that.

Freddy Got Fingered is hilarious thanks to Rip Torn.

[hefdaddy42]

I didn't even remember he was in it.  I have almost succeeded in blotting the film from memory 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

I didn't even remember he was in it.  I have almost succeeded in blotting the film from memory 

Rip Torn's performance deserves repeated viewings.
Tom Green's performance deserves no repeated viewings.

It's quite the paradox.

[SchecterShredder]

Over all, I'd place it a bit below Avengers 2.

I think that's giving too much credit to BvS. I don't think it was anywhere near Avengers 2 in terms of cinematography, directing, acting or plot. Although, I personally found the movie quite entertaining. Not sure if that's because I went in with zero expectations once the reviews started flying, or because it was genuinely entertaining. Personally, I would put it above Man of Steel and about on par with an Ironman 3 (worst of the Ironman movies, BTW).