The DC Movies Thread v AQUAMAN

[Mister Gold]

That would still be cool.  Surprised there has been no rumors of Batgirl though.

Batgirl was reported to be in the works a few years ago, but it's been radio silent on progress for like a year and a half due to WB focusing on the Matt Reeves film for now, I think. No casting or director attached to the film yet, though I believe Christina Hobson (the writer for Birds of Prey and Bumblebee) is writing the script.

Either way, I'm in for more Keaton Batman. I LOVE everything that I've seen and heard about the Pattinson movie so far; Matt Reeves is one of the more underrated directors working in Hollywood today and the sheer talent of actors working on that film is monstrous. But I'm all for Keaton succeeding Affleck in the DCEU if Reeves and Pattinson's Gotham will exist in its own world apart from the mainline DCEU films. Gives the audience both sides of the equation imo; more comic-y stuff and crossover potential with Keaton and a grittier, more idiosyncratic take with Pattinson.

I mean, let's be real, there's a reason why most of the critically revered superhero films that are ones that aren't part of a full blown cinematic universe. I love the MCU, but it's more of a Hollywood budget TV show. Films like The Dark Knight, Joker, Logan or even Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse are bit too... unique in their craft to fit in with a perfectly oiled franchise machine that prioritizes continuity and long form storytelling over the course of dozens of films. So I'm all for Reeves and Pattinson filling that void while Keaton handles the DCEU.

[Adami]

I'm excited to see Keaton back...if it happens.

I do not want him to be the Nick Fury of the DCEU. They need to stop trying to be Marvel and focus on their stand alone films with minor crossing over, they seem to do best then.


Also....this is The Flash movie we're talking about. They've had like 10 writers and directors join and then drop out and it's not even clear if Ezra Miller is going to be coming back. So I have no idea when this movie is even going to happen. It seems pretty doomed.

[Samsara]

As one of this forums resident Bat-a-holics, I love Keaton reprising his role. Long overdue. Frankly, after The Dark Knight Trilogy, I half expected DC/Warners to do a live action movie of The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel starring Keaton (aside from the obvious that Joker appeared to have died in Batman '89). Instead we got Bat-Fleck, who as most of you know, I thought was terrible in every regard.

I've never been big on The Flash as a character. I'll see it, however, because of Keaton and Batman.

I also have to say that while I know Batman Beyond has a big following, I've never been able to really get behind anyone other than Bruce Wayne being Batman. I tried watching the series. I got a few episodes in, and it just didn't resonate. I would, however, give it a shot if it was made into some sort of standalone film with Keaton.

It seems like Reeves' "The Batman" is now regarded as a standalone series, much in the way Nolan's The Dark Knight Trilogy was. I'm very interested in how Pattison is as Bruce Wayne/Batman. But honestly, I think it does his portrayal of Batman a disservice, since everyone is going to be much more into seeing Keaton.

I can't help but think Warners is blowing it again. They had a great thing with The Dark Knight Trilogy. They blew that up to try and catch up to Marvel/Disney and all the Avengers stuff. That blew up in Warners' face. Then they do a great standalone Joker film to huge acclaim, and announce a new Batman. But then they now announce Keaton reprising his role, pretty much relegating Pattison to "the other guy playing Batman" status.

SMH.

Warners just never gets out of its own way...

[Mister Gold]

As one of this forums resident Bat-a-holics, I love Keaton reprising his role. Long overdue. Frankly, after The Dark Knight Trilogy, I half expected DC/Warners to do a live action movie of The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel starring Keaton (aside from the obvious that Joker appeared to have died in Batman '89). Instead we got Bat-Fleck, who as most of you know, I thought was terrible in every regard.

I've never been big on The Flash as a character. I'll see it, however, because of Keaton and Batman.

I also have to say that while I know Batman Beyond has a big following, I've never been able to really get behind anyone other than Bruce Wayne being Batman. I tried watching the series. I got a few episodes in, and it just didn't resonate. I would, however, give it a shot if it was made into some sort of standalone film with Keaton.

It seems like Reeves' "The Batman" is now regarded as a standalone series, much in the way Nolan's The Dark Knight Trilogy was. I'm very interested in how Pattison is as Bruce Wayne/Batman. But honestly, I think it does his portrayal of Batman a disservice, since everyone is going to be much more into seeing Keaton.

I can't help but think Warners is blowing it again. They had a great thing with The Dark Knight Trilogy. They blew that up to try and catch up to Marvel/Disney and all the Avengers stuff. That blew up in Warners' face. Then they do a great standalone Joker film to huge acclaim, and announce a new Batman. But then they now announce Keaton reprising his role, pretty much relegating Pattison to "the other guy playing Batman" status.

SMH.

Warners just never gets out of its own way...

Just as an aside, it's spelled Pattinson, not Pattison!

As for your point about Batman Beyond, I can definitely understand not getting behind the whole show. It gets spotty in places and while the show has a lot of great moments, I think most fans would agree that the absolute best part related to it is the movie Return of the Joker. Hands down my favorite performance from Mark Hamill as the Joker right there. The flashback sequence detailing Bruce's final run-in with Joker in the old animated universe is one of the best bits of Batlore ever. Highly recommend it if you've never seen it!

As for Keaton potentially overshadowing Pattinson... I'll admit that I'm a little bit worried too as a fellow Bat-a-holic, but it sounds like the plan is for Keaton to mostly play a supporting role in the DCEU films, while the bulk of Warner's focus for Batman will be on Pattinson. At the end of the day, I think movie goers will care more about whether or not WB are putting out good films than which is connected to what.

And I know there's a lot of interest surrounding the Pattinson films. It's a clean slate for a new take on Batman and I've personally noticed from a number of interviews that there's a surprisingly genuine sense of confidence and excitement coming from the cast and crew on this film. They're not saying the usual "It's going to be epic"/"It'll be fun" zinger that you hear celebrities use to promote the average blockbusters, instead we've got folks like Paul Dano, Colin Ferrell, Andy Serkis, Zoe Kravitz and Peter Sarsgaard all talking about how emotional Reeves' script is and talk about it being quite powerful and dark.

Plus Pattinson is going to hit the big screen before Keaton returns in The Flash by at least a year, maybe two. So I'd wager that if Reeves delivers the goods with The Batman next fall, we're all good for fans showing continued interest in that iteration of Gotham moving forward.

[Samsara]

MG -- thanks on that. I knew it was wrong, but I've been writing all day and was too lazy to go back and fix it. LOL.

Trust me, I DO want to watch the Batman Beyond series due to the return of the Joker stuff. I've had the set in my Amazon cart like six times and just didn't pull the trigger. We'll see.

At the end of the day, I think movie goers will care more about whether or not WB are putting out good films than which is connected to what.

In general, yes, of course. I'm just saying that WB has continually shot itself in the foot trying to play catch up to Disney/Marvel. And by having TWO Batmans in feature films, it feels...strange. Good point about there not being any timing issues, and the fact that Keaton's role is as a supporting character. But Keaton...has a way of just taking the spotlight. He was awesome as Batman, and people are freaking out about it, which again, will have some people looking at the Pattinson Batman (the casting having people up in arms in the first place) a bit more skeptically.

For me, I'm eager for it all. But Keaton will overshadow it all. WB should know that. Why do that, now, as you're trying to build to relaunch Batman with a new actor?

Anyway, just thinking out loud. I've written 21,000 words today. I'm tired. Good night. LOL.

[Mister Gold]

MG -- thanks on that. I knew it was wrong, but I've been writing all day and was too lazy to go back and fix it. LOL.

Trust me, I DO want to watch the Batman Beyond series due to the return of the Joker stuff. I've had the set in my Amazon cart like six times and just didn't pull the trigger. We'll see.

Totally fair. I will say you don't have to watch much of the show at all to dive into Return of the Joker. It helps if you've seen the pilot episodes for sure so that you understand how Bruce got where he is and Terry's origin story as the new Batman, and maybe you get a better appreciation of some things regarding the Batfamily if you've seen the show, but it's not at all a requirement to get into the film.

In general, yes, of course. I'm just saying that WB has continually shot itself in the foot trying to play catch up to Disney/Marvel. And by having TWO Batmans in feature films, it feels...strange. Good point about there not being any timing issues, and the fact that Keaton's role is as a supporting character. But Keaton...has a way of just taking the spotlight. He was awesome as Batman, and people are freaking out about it, which again, will have some people looking at the Pattinson Batman (the casting having people up in arms in the first place) a bit more skeptically.

For me, I'm eager for it all. But Keaton will overshadow it all. WB should know that. Why do that, now, as you're trying to build to relaunch Batman with a new actor?

Anyway, just thinking out loud. I've written 21,000 words today. I'm tired. Good night. LOL.

The problem is that it seems like the set-up at Warner Bros is more complicated than it is with Disney/Marvel Studios. From what I've heard, the Snyder Cut is only happening because AT&T (who now 'own' WB or are at least merged with it) wanted it as something they could use to advertise and attract customers to the new HBO Max streaming service, despite WB not being interested in spending the money needed to finish that iteration of the film. And while Walter Hamada is in charge of the DC films and is largely doing a good job in righting the ship so far, it sounds like Jim Lee has some input now too since he's one of the main people in charge at DC. Apparently Lee was responsible for making the Ezra Miller cameo in the CW Crisis on Infinite Earths event happen earlier this year and wants to kinda connect ALL of the DC stuff out there together as a gigantic multiverse.

So if I had to guess (aka purely speculation here on my part), Hamada's probably mostly in charge with what's going on with The Batman (which is very self-contained), while Jim Lee might've been a prominent voice in pushing for Keaton to return as Batman to further explore multiverses in DC films and provide a way for the main DCEU to still have a Batman around rather than have the Ghost of Ben Affleck lingering somewhere off screen.

[Stadler]

I'm sorry, but I was a DC kid growing up - I was a Green Lantern/Flash/Batman guy; loved the work of Don Newton and Mike Grell and Neal Adams and Jim Aparo - and so the promise has been there so many times, but I've been burned so many times.  For every Keaton, there was a Clooney, and when they finally settled on Affleck (my favorite Batman, probably) and Cavill (BY FAR my favorite Superman) they had to blow it all up.   I don't know why this is so hard.   

I try to watch the CW stuff; I've mainly watched Supergirl.  It's awesome when it's a comic (blows when it veers into social commentary, which it does too often.  The metaphors are like anvils.)   I've enjoyed the cross-over things so I have to go back and watch the Green Arrow/Flash series'.   I don't mind tying it in, but at some point you have to pick a horse, I think. 

And I think it goes without saying: I'm only really interested in Bruce Wayne as Batman.  It's bad enough there are multiple Robins (I'm a Dick Grayson guy, myself) and Green Lanterns.  Thankfully, that can't really happen with Superman.

[King Postwhore]

From what I've recently read, Cavill still wants to play Superman.

[Adami]

I really like Cavill and think he COULD be a great Superman. But I don’t think Zak Snyder gets Superman at all. Maybe if he got a different writer/director and wasn’t written as a sad angry gritty character.

[soupytwist]

Reeves was so good in the role because he played both halves of the character perfectly, Supes and Clark.   I haven't seen much from Cavill to suggest he can pull that off and I don't really see him as a hugely natural or charisma actor. 

I've been watching Agents of Shield recently and Brett Dalton who plays Grant Ward seems like a really good fit.  He's got the right look and build, is a good actor and his charisma is off the charts, I think he could easily pull of the dual role.

[Dream Team]

I really like Cavill and think he COULD be a great Superman. But I don’t think Zak Snyder gets Superman at all. Maybe if he got a different writer/director and wasn’t written as a sad angry gritty character.

I think Cavill is overrated and too short for the role. Yes I know he’s not “short” but Reeve and Affleck are 6’4”.

But you cited the REAL problem: Snyder

[Zantera]

Cavill is a great Superman/Clark but unfortunately he's been dealt a bad card with Snyder's horrible take on the character. It's unfortunate because had they done the character justice I think Cavill would be held even higher than Reeves among most fans, but sadly his Superman is written as a dark and brooding character who sees it as a chore to do good and it's just not very likable.

[soupytwist]

Cavill is a great Superman/Clark but unfortunately he's been dealt a bad card with Snyder's horrible take on the character. It's unfortunate because had they done the character justice I think Cavill would be held even higher than Reeves among most fans, but sadly his Superman is written as a dark and brooding character who sees it as a chore to do good and it's just not very likable.

Good actors can rise above shitty material.  There are very few films that generate a more negative reaction than Superman 4 - but Reeves stills brings it.   Cavell does nothing to elevate the material he's given - he's just a bland Superman.   Even when he turns up in Justice League - a movie that allows more room for the fun side, he still fails to make an impression.  Compare that to the charisma Momoa instantly has in that movie in his first outing....Aquaman is the biggest boxoffice success in the DC universe on the back of Momoa's performance (another example of an actor elevating the material).

[King Postwhore]

Nothing about Superman 4 was good. 

[Zantera]

Cavill is a great Superman/Clark but unfortunately he's been dealt a bad card with Snyder's horrible take on the character. It's unfortunate because had they done the character justice I think Cavill would be held even higher than Reeves among most fans, but sadly his Superman is written as a dark and brooding character who sees it as a chore to do good and it's just not very likable.

Good actors can rise above shitty material.  There are very few films that generate a more negative reaction than Superman 4 - but Reeves stills brings it.   Cavell does nothing to elevate the material he's given - he's just a bland Superman.   Even when he turns up in Justice League - a movie that allows more room for the fun side, he still fails to make an impression.  Compare that to the charisma Momoa instantly has in that movie in his first outing....Aquaman is the biggest boxoffice success in the DC universe on the back of Momoa's performance (another example of an actor elevating the material).

I would argue Cavill in Justice League under Whedon's directing playing a more Reeves-y Superman was one of the few highlights. In BvS however the character was just so wrong from the start there's not much you can really do. It really is a shame that Cavill has been dealt a bad card with the films though, it kinda reminds me a bit of Pierce Brosnan as Bond. I think you could make an argument for him being one of the best Bond actors, and I feel in his movies he gives great performances but outside GoldenEye he was saddled with some of the weaker entries of the franchise - 1 of which is arguably the worst of all of them.

Had Cavill been given a more traditional take on Superman I think he would have nailed it because in the glimpses of Justice League when he gets that chance I thought he did it great. I get what you're saying about "a good actor can lift bad material" but when your take on Superman is a dark brooding character who sees it as a burden to do good I think it's very hard to get anything resembling the Superman we know out of the performance.

[ZirconBlue]

There were reports a month or so ago that Cavill was in negotiations to return as Superman, but it sounded like it would not be in a standalone Superman movie.

Thanks to this article, I recently checked out The Man From U.N.C.L.E., which I really enjoyed.  Between that and The Witcher, I now have a much higher opinion of him as an actor.

[jammindude]

Reeves was so good in the role because he played both halves of the character perfectly, Supes and Clark.   I haven't seen much from Cavill to suggest he can pull that off and I don't really see him as a hugely natural or charisma actor. 

I've been watching Agents of Shield recently and Brett Dalton who plays Grant Ward seems like a really good fit.  He's got the right look and build, is a good actor and his charisma is off the charts, I think he could easily pull of the dual role.

I just had to say I think you’re spot on with Brett Dalton. Although his nerd cred tends to steer towards villain in many minds...but he’s been convincing as the good guy as well. He’s definitely a good enough actor.

[Kotowboy]

Nothing about Superman 4 was good.

Except Gene Hackman hamming it up - probably because he knew the material was awful and he was getting paid whatever.

[Kotowboy]

I'm looking forward to WW84 - but the first one was clearly the best DCEU movie so far - apart from the usual CGI boss fight at the end.

And to find out how Steve Trevor is still alive / in 1984.

Did he get some kind of Captain America powers ?

[Podaar]

I'm guessing that he's some sort of echo in her brain that the villain of the movie is inducing. Wish fulfillment as a weapon...sort of thing.

[Cool Chris]

Not sure where to put this, guess here is the best place. Here is 36 seconds of awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAVvny-FxjA

[DoctorAction]

I watched Justice League last night. I'm struggling to know what to say about it...

Gal Gadot shines likes a beacon. Bring on WW84.

I hate Cavill as Supes. But the material is so dismal it's hard to know if it's him or not. Reeve had that sense of purity, nobility and goodness. I guess it will be impossible to ever replace but Cavill just seems charmless to me.

Affleck is ok (and i really like him generally) but his face looked chubby in the hood. And the suit muscles are so bulbous and clunky he just looks like a constipated wrestler in it.

Momoa was charismatic AF but his character seemed like a douche.

There's so much they could do. But are clearly so terrified by the MCU triumph. They're the movie equivalent of a nervous kid who is so messed up that when he asks the girl to dance he spits when he talks, shits his pants, coughs phlegm into her drink then pukes on her dress. They just need to slow down and work on great acting and emotions.

[faizoff]

Zack Synder says the final movie of JL was about 1/4 of what he wanted. New scenes to be shot with the principal cast, looks like they are making it from the ground up for the most part.

With all the hoopla surrounding this, I'm going to guess it will just be a steup above what we got and might be a little more coherent but still nothing spectacular, will have to wait and see.

https://movieweb.com/justice-league-snyder-cut-whedon-reshoots-footage/

[Stadler]

I watched Justice League last night. I'm struggling to know what to say about it...

Gal Gadot shines likes a beacon. Bring on WW84.

I hate Cavill as Supes. But the material is so dismal it's hard to know if it's him or not. Reeve had that sense of purity, nobility and goodness. I guess it will be impossible to ever replace but Cavill just seems charmless to me.

Affleck is ok (and i really like him generally) but his face looked chubby in the hood. And the suit muscles are so bulbous and clunky he just looks like a constipated wrestler in it.

Momoa was charismatic AF but his character seemed like a douche.

There's so much they could do. But are clearly so terrified by the MCU triumph. They're the movie equivalent of a nervous kid who is so messed up that when he asks the girl to dance he spits when he talks, shits his pants, coughs phlegm into her drink then pukes on her dress. They just need to slow down and work on great acting and emotions.

In my defense, she was HOT!    

I'm a big Cavill fan.  I think he did with the character what the character called for.   I don't know; I see the missteps, I see the lack of cohesiveness, and I certainly see the seams where they patched this whole thing together and hoped it stayed, but I think the bare bones - Cavill/Superman, Affleck/Batman, Gadot/WW - were there.  I don't think that's where the fault lies, I think it's in the owner and the coach, to mix in a sports metaphor. 

[gzarruk]

I watched Justice League last night. I'm struggling to know what to say about it...

Gal Gadot shines likes a beacon. Bring on WW84.

I hate Cavill as Supes. But the material is so dismal it's hard to know if it's him or not. Reeve had that sense of purity, nobility and goodness. I guess it will be impossible to ever replace but Cavill just seems charmless to me.

Affleck is ok (and i really like him generally) but his face looked chubby in the hood. And the suit muscles are so bulbous and clunky he just looks like a constipated wrestler in it.

Momoa was charismatic AF but his character seemed like a douche.

There's so much they could do. But are clearly so terrified by the MCU triumph. They're the movie equivalent of a nervous kid who is so messed up that when he asks the girl to dance he spits when he talks, shits his pants, coughs phlegm into her drink then pukes on her dress. They just need to slow down and work on great acting and emotions.

In my defense, she was HOT!    

I'm a big Cavill fan.  I think he did with the character what the character called for.   I don't know; I see the missteps, I see the lack of cohesiveness, and I certainly see the seams where they patched this whole thing together and hoped it stayed, but I think the bare bones - Cavill/Superman, Affleck/Batman, Gadot/WW - were there.  I don't think that's where the fault lies, I think it's in the owner and the coach, to mix in a sports metaphor.

I agree. The problem wasn't the casting, but the writing, directing, etc.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah, you might be right, guys. I dunno. Was just my immediate reaction. I hope they can pull something satisfying together. I loved the original Supes films and there were some parts of Superman Returns that i thought were really great. Would mean a lot to get some of those feels again.

[Zantera]

I think the biggest problems with the DCU was 1. handing the control over to a guy who wants his Superman to be dark, 2. trying to catch up with Marvel in too few movies.

[jingle.boy]

I think the biggest problems with the DCU was 1. handing the control over to a guy who wants his Superman to be dark, 2. trying to catch up with Marvel in too few movies.

More importantly,  3: passing the baton between the guys who were in at the crux of these two points (Snyder and Whedon).

I don't have an issue with Supes being dark and brooding, but the whole flow of the movie was choppy.  Darkseid was an awful villain - worse than any MCU villain (and I'm including Malekith in that).  Also, if you're going to go with the OG of Justice League, where the fuck was Green Lantern (my fave DCU hero as a kid... so I'm mildly biased)?

[Zantera]

First Batman teaser/trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewDSeyWve8M

I'm quite hyped for this. Really hope it turns out good.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

I feel old because my first question is: how many times can you reboot a franchise? I guess no one really care in the end anyway, much more fun to get hyped.

They also gets darker and darker it seems.

[The Walrus]

I feel old because my first question is: how many times can you reboot a franchise? I guess no one really care in the end anyway, much more fun to get hyped.

They also gets darker and darker it seems.

Batman should be pretty dark imo. I was skeptical as hell based on all the reporting around Pattinson and the constant troubles with the script and producing it etc. but the trailer makes this look awesome imo.

Also - just my two cents - Nolan's Batman was the first time a Batman movie wasn't complete garbage imo so I'm up for another reboot. I liked Batfleck but he hasn't been done justice yet.

[jingle.boy]

I see what you did there.   

[Mister Gold]

I feel old because my first question is: how many times can you reboot a franchise? I guess no one really care in the end anyway, much more fun to get hyped.

They also gets darker and darker it seems.

Batman should be pretty dark imo. I was skeptical as hell based on all the reporting around Pattinson and the constant troubles with the script and producing it etc. but the trailer makes this look awesome imo.

Also - just my two cents - Nolan's Batman was the first time a Batman movie wasn't complete garbage imo so I'm up for another reboot. I liked Batfleck but he hasn't been done justice yet.

Honestly, as someone who was following the production of the film for the past three years, there was never much of any signs that Matt Reeves was having problems with the script or producing the film. The trouble was primarily from back when Affleck was originally attached to write-direct a very different film with the same working title (THE BATMAN) that would've been set in the main DCEU. After Reeves came onboard, it seems like Affleck was unofficially long gone before his announced departure at the start of 2019 (and now he's back again for Flash  ) and Reeves just started over working on the film from scratch without much problems.

Pattinson himself hasn't really been a problem either, though he did briefly piss off a certain group of fans by joking in an interview that he wasn't working out and stuff... which makes sense, as he is notorious for making stuff up on the fly in interviews and later confirmed he was indeed working out and training for the role.

All in all, I've personally had all the faith in the world in this film being good ever since Matt Reeves came onboard the project. As much as I love the Nolan films, I can tell very clearly in the interviews with Matt that he's by far the director with the greatest understanding and appreciation for the whole breadth of the Batman mythos that's been in charge of the franchise. He's a nerd when it comes to Batman and it shows. Plus it helps that despite having all of that knowledge and appreciation for the world of Gotham, Reeves isn't afraid to take chances and do things his own way like Nolan and Burton before him.

[Adami]

I thought The Batman teaser looked awesome. Glad he didn’t do an angry dog voice for Batman.

The Snyder cut trailer looked like “WOAH SICK BRAH!!” Video game trailer. Cool, but just for visual spectacle.

[Mister Gold]

I thought The Batman teaser looked awesome. Glad he didn’t do an angry dog voice for Batman.

The Snyder cut trailer looked like “WOAH SICK BRAH!!” Video game trailer. Cool, but just for visual spectacle.

Yeah, there's a very palpable difference in content and excitement between The Batman and the Snyder Cut trailers IMO. I haven't been this excited for a new film in quite awhile. Probably not since Blade Runner 2049 three years ago, at least.

What's even crazier though is that the teaser for The Batman is made up entirely from a mere 25 to 30% of the film (production's been on hiatus due to the lockdown for months, but they'll be starting up again finally in a few weeks). This feels like a trailer for a film that's been in the can for months and is close to release date. I'm beyond impressed with the trailer and can't wait to see what else they do with the movie.