Author Topic: 2016 Presidential Race  (Read 161204 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #175 on: April 17, 2015, 11:50:29 AM »
This is for TL, to help him understand the politics of his neighbors to the South.

https://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/04/there-are-so-many-more-questions-about-chipotle.html
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Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #176 on: April 17, 2015, 12:05:57 PM »
 :rollin :rollin :rollin

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #177 on: April 17, 2015, 05:38:02 PM »
What is amazing to me is the first time Hillary gets the same type of coverage a Republican candidate gets, they flip out.  And the story went by so fast that by the time I read it later in the day here, it wasn't on the front page of any news site.  It wasn't even on Daily Kos, Breitbart, etc.

I think there were more stories about the outrage of the coverage than the coverage itself.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2015, 06:57:48 PM »
I haven't seen one republican candidate get as much sole coverage as her but that may be because there is a handful of GOP candidates now sharing the coverage and she's the only real big one for the left.

Do people really tip at a place like that?

I hope not because you're not supposed to. Also I find it amusing for a Chipotle to expect tips when their food is already $2-3 more than it should cost.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #179 on: April 17, 2015, 07:52:50 PM »
Sub sandwich places trying to get tips out of people now is so lame, especially when, like you said, the food is already overpriced.

He was referring to me calling Chris Christie a douche.


Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2015, 08:55:08 AM »

People behind the counter at fast food places aren't making a server's wage, they are making at least minimum. Now, minimum wage sucks the big one, and I realize that, but it shouldn't be my duty as the customer to make up the difference of the shitty wages with tips just because the big wigs at that company are filling their pockets instead of paying their employees.

For the love of God... can there be any post here that isn't a backhanded comment on the evils of big this and big that???   My future stepdaughter, who I adore and is smart and has a great future ahead of her (she's already planning GRAD school and hasn't even graduated high school yet), works in fast food and even SHE would tell you she isn't worth a dime more than the minimum wage she's making now.   Sometimes, you know, it is just as simple as an equal transaction, even if it doesn't seem fair to you, not the massive class screwing that Rolling Stone needs to make their circulation numbers. 

And the funny/ironic thing is, you raise the minimum wage and you ARE going to be making up the difference, since the prices will go up.  Hell, their first "bumped up" paycheck will probably be for changing the prices on the menu boards...


Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #181 on: April 20, 2015, 08:56:32 AM »
If people are buying it, it is by definition not over-priced. 

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #182 on: April 20, 2015, 09:10:02 AM »

People behind the counter at fast food places aren't making a server's wage, they are making at least minimum. Now, minimum wage sucks the big one, and I realize that, but it shouldn't be my duty as the customer to make up the difference of the shitty wages with tips just because the big wigs at that company are filling their pockets instead of paying their employees.

For the love of God... can there be any post here that isn't a backhanded comment on the evils of big this and big that???   

No, because the state of our economy is tied to the evils of big this and big that.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #183 on: April 20, 2015, 09:15:16 AM »

People behind the counter at fast food places aren't making a server's wage, they are making at least minimum. Now, minimum wage sucks the big one, and I realize that, but it shouldn't be my duty as the customer to make up the difference of the shitty wages with tips just because the big wigs at that company are filling their pockets instead of paying their employees.

For the love of God... can there be any post here that isn't a backhanded comment on the evils of big this and big that???   

No, because the state of our economy is tied to the evils of big this and big that.

Um... but there was "big this and big that" when our economy was booming, so that can't be right.   Unless you mean "big this and big that" to mean "government", in which case I might agree with you.   

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #184 on: April 20, 2015, 10:55:26 AM »

People behind the counter at fast food places aren't making a server's wage, they are making at least minimum. Now, minimum wage sucks the big one, and I realize that, but it shouldn't be my duty as the customer to make up the difference of the shitty wages with tips just because the big wigs at that company are filling their pockets instead of paying their employees.

For the love of God... can there be any post here that isn't a backhanded comment on the evils of big this and big that???   

No, because the state of our economy is tied to the evils of big this and big that.

Um... but there was "big this and big that" when our economy was booming, so that can't be right. 

That's because people with families could work in factories on assembly lines, in accounting departments, at banks, in call centers, etc... How many of those jobs have been replaced by robots, algorithms, and foreign labor? When the economy was booming you had kids working the minimum wage jobs. What they made barely factored into the overall economy. What we have now are companies that are bigger than ever, raking in unprecidented amounts of cash, and paying their employees wages that have not kept up anywhere near inflation. I'm not saying fast food workers should by default make $35,000 per year, but $12 an hour wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. These mega companies have gotten disgustingly rich, pulling their fortunes out of the US economy and hiding them in other countries, all on the backs of people who wouldn't have two nickels to rub together otherwise.

Offline orcus116

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #185 on: April 20, 2015, 11:12:33 AM »
Aren't fast food jobs typically considered stepping stone first jobs for high school kids? I understand that there are adults that do work at fast food places but I'd imagine the majority of the kids that work those jobs aren't working to support a family but more to make some cash on the side while being supported by their families. Now this obviously doesn't cover all situations but we're talking about jobs that aren't meant to turn into careers.

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2015, 11:23:09 AM »
Aren't fast food jobs typically considered stepping stone first jobs for high school kids? I understand that there are adults that do work at fast food places but I'd imagine the majority of the kids that work those jobs aren't working to support a family but more to make some cash on the side while being supported by their families. Now this obviously doesn't cover all situations but we're talking about jobs that aren't meant to turn into careers.

They were... until a massive chunk of middle class and lower middle class jobs disappeared for good over the last 15 years.

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #187 on: April 20, 2015, 11:54:36 AM »
Unless you mean "big this and big that" to mean "government", in which case I might agree with you.

The problem comes from government picking winners and losers in the economy.  The reason Big gets the attention is because they have the Big *donations*.  Although donation is not the right word.  Bribe.  This is 100% the fault of the government.  It takes 100% of the people in the government positions to make this happen.  However, far from 100% of business is involved in this economic perversion.

The problem is government getting too involved with "big" business.  And that works both ways.  Not just propping up one for the *bribation* payback, but also for knocking down the business that didn't play ball.

I'll admit that getting money out of politics is not an easy task.  Limiting a business owner from talking about a government issue (say on CNN) seems dangerous.

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2015, 11:55:21 AM »
They were... until a massive chunk of middle class and lower middle class jobs disappeared for good over the last 15 years.

Those jobs still exist.  So where did they go?

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #189 on: April 20, 2015, 11:58:52 AM »

People behind the counter at fast food places aren't making a server's wage, they are making at least minimum. Now, minimum wage sucks the big one, and I realize that, but it shouldn't be my duty as the customer to make up the difference of the shitty wages with tips just because the big wigs at that company are filling their pockets instead of paying their employees.

For the love of God... can there be any post here that isn't a backhanded comment on the evils of big this and big that???   

No, because the state of our economy is tied to the evils of big this and big that.

Um... but there was "big this and big that" when our economy was booming, so that can't be right. 

That's because people with families could work in factories on assembly lines, in accounting departments, at banks, in call centers, etc... How many of those jobs have been replaced by robots, algorithms, and foreign labor? When the economy was booming you had kids working the minimum wage jobs. What they made barely factored into the overall economy. What we have now are companies that are bigger than ever, raking in unprecidented amounts of cash, and paying their employees wages that have not kept up anywhere near inflation. I'm not saying fast food workers should by default make $35,000 per year, but $12 an hour wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. These mega companies have gotten disgustingly rich, pulling their fortunes out of the US economy and hiding them in other countries, all on the backs of people who wouldn't have two nickels to rub together otherwise.

Chino, do you travel out of state for your work?  Or know anyone well who does?

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2015, 12:11:36 PM »
They were... until a massive chunk of middle class and lower middle class jobs disappeared for good over the last 15 years.

Those jobs still exist.  So where did they go?

Oh c'mon man. Really?

1) How many car plant jobs have been replaced by robots? And don't come back with the "well someone needs to fix and program them". Please. For every job those things created they got rid of a few thousand.

2) How many warehouse workers have been replaced by autonomous forklifts? Amazon is adding an additional 10,000 to their army this year alone.

3) I went to the races at Saratoga last year. There were about 300 touch displays where tellers once worked.

4) Firms used to have accounting departments hundreds of people deep and now all you need is handful of people and a software license.

5) How many travel agencies have gone under because of the internet?

6) 411 and phone operators?

7) What happens when every cab in the country is driven by a computer?

I'm sorry, Calvin, but your statement is 100% wrong. The amount of jobs that disappeard, not to be confused with jobs lost, is terrifying.

Quote
The numbers startle even labor economists. In the United States, half the 7.5 million jobs lost during the Great Recession were in industries that pay middle-class wages, ranging from $38,000 to $68,000. But only 2 percent of the 3.5 million jobs gained since the recession ended in June 2009 are in midpay industries. Nearly 70 percent are in low-pay industries, 29 percent in industries that pay well.

In the 17 European countries that use the euro as their currency, the numbers are even worse. Almost 4.3 million low-pay jobs have been gained since mid-2009, but the loss of midpay jobs has never stopped. A total of 7.6 million disappeared from January 2008 through last June.



Chino, do you travel out of state for your work?  Or know anyone well who does?


Yeah, and I know a bunch of people. What's your point?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:18:42 PM by Chino »

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #191 on: April 20, 2015, 12:19:58 PM »
As for this:

Aren't fast food jobs typically considered stepping stone first jobs for high school kids? I understand that there are adults that do work at fast food places but I'd imagine the majority of the kids that work those jobs aren't working to support a family but more to make some cash on the side while being supported by their families. Now this obviously doesn't cover all situations but we're talking about jobs that aren't meant to turn into careers.

They were... until a massive chunk of middle class and lower middle class jobs disappeared for good over the last 15 years.

and this:

That's because people with families could work in factories on assembly lines, in accounting departments, at banks, in call centers, etc... How many of those jobs have been replaced by robots, algorithms, and foreign labor? 

(And I could add your reply to @Calvin6s as well here, but won't for space):

What is your alternative?  Continue to have Americans putting televisions together by hand?  How many people do you know that are going to buy a $4500 36" television when there is an alternative available for $285 at Best Buy?   You are defending a model that went out not because of the evils you point at, but because it was unsustainable from the get-go.  It was necessary, to figure out what would be possible, but simple math says that it isn't something that could endure over time.  You would have companies forsake computers?  Add to that that your argument absolutely and utterly fails to account for the notion that you can't change one variable (in this case, wages) and have all others remain the same.  (And I didn't even mention the notion that America isn't the only country on the planet; the people of [insert country] are entitled to be paid for their work, if they are the best at what they do). 

What you are seeing is the growing pains of the obliteration of the old notion of "geography".  Before long the idea of "countries" as our grandparents knew them will be a thing of the past.   
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 12:25:15 PM by Stadler »

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #192 on: April 20, 2015, 12:24:26 PM »
Chino, do you travel out of state for your work?  Or know anyone well who does?


Yeah, and I know a bunch of people. What's your point?

I'll assume you live in what we'll call "State C" and I'll assume you travel to what we'll call "State Z".   You must've just filed your taxes for 2014, and from your comments above, I'll assume you paid the full amount of state income tax on your total salary to State C, and you paid the full amount of state income tax on your total salary to State Z (and every other state you travelled to)?

I'll assume that, because that is effectively what you are asking for with your comments on "offshore taxes".   Most of the so-called "trillions" that it is oh-so-vogue to criticize as having been taken out of the pockets of the US citizens are actually dollars earned - AND TAXED - elsewhere.   Yes, there are loopholes, but the vast bulk of the so-called "lost taxes" are actually profits from overseas operations that haven't been repatriated back (yet) which would have resulted in double taxation on those earnings.   It is a downside of using "countries" as a measurement for "global" economy.   

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #193 on: April 20, 2015, 12:30:30 PM »
I'm sorry, Calvin, but your statement is 100% wrong. The amount of jobs that disappeard, not to be confused with jobs lost, is terrifying.
First, what about all the people that lost their job because of the printing press?

Second, the world getting more complicated has created more jobs as well.  IT department.  Computer hardware and software jobs.  Intermediaries that communicate between management / sales / etc and the proprietary software development.  Jobs that require scanning of paper into e-docs.

Third, the internet provides an education that has never been available before.  I'm surprised state and federal governments haven't taken advantage of this to create guided courses for every possible profession.  I'm guessing teacher unions are against that.  This might be one of the most important things the government can do right now.  It would finally make the Dept. of Education a valuable asset instead of a waste of resources.

Fourth, you forgot global competition.

Fifth, what happened to "they do the jobs we don't want to do."

How would you fix this?  It sounds like you are for population control.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #194 on: April 20, 2015, 12:30:39 PM »
What is your alternative?  Continue to have Americans putting televisions together by hand?  How many people do you know that are going to buy a $4500 36" television when there is an alternative available for $285 at Best Buy?   You are defending a model that went out not because of the evils you point at, but because it was unsustainable from the get-go.  It was necessary, to figure out what would be possible, but simple math says that it isn't something that could endure over time.  You would have companies forsake computers?  Add to that that your argument absolutely and utterly fails to account for the notion that you can't change one variable (in this case, wages) and have all others remain the same.  (And I didn't even mention the notion that America isn't the only country on the planet; the people of [insert country] are entitled to be paid for their work, if they are the best at what they do). 
I'm inclined to agree, yet at the same time it's troublesome that we're so hell-bent on the notion that only a person with a job is worth a fuck. Frankly, I think there's quite a bit that's becoming archaic with regards to damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead capitalism. As we've discussed (quite briefly, albeit) in another forum, isn't it about time we start considering the next step?
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Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #195 on: April 20, 2015, 12:35:33 PM »
As for this:

Aren't fast food jobs typically considered stepping stone first jobs for high school kids? I understand that there are adults that do work at fast food places but I'd imagine the majority of the kids that work those jobs aren't working to support a family but more to make some cash on the side while being supported by their families. Now this obviously doesn't cover all situations but we're talking about jobs that aren't meant to turn into careers.

They were... until a massive chunk of middle class and lower middle class jobs disappeared for good over the last 15 years.

and this:

That's because people with families could work in factories on assembly lines, in accounting departments, at banks, in call centers, etc... How many of those jobs have been replaced by robots, algorithms, and foreign labor? 

(And I could add your reply to @Calvin6s as well here, but won't for space):

What is your alternative?  Continue to have Americans putting televisions together by hand?  How many people do you know that are going to buy a $4500 36" television when there is an alternative available for $285 at Best Buy?   You are defending a model that went out not because of the evils you point at, but because it was unsustainable from the get-go.  It was necessary, to figure out what would be possible, but simple math says that it isn't something that could endure over time.  You would have companies forsake computers?  Add to that that your argument absolutely and utterly fails to account for the notion that you can't change one variable (in this case, wages) and have all others remain the same.  (And I didn't even mention the notion that America isn't the only country on the planet; the people of [insert country] are entitled to be paid for their work, if they are the best at what they do). 

What you are seeing is the growing pains of the obliteration of the old notion of "geography".  Before long the idea of "countries" as our grandparents knew them will be a thing of the past.   

Please do not put words in my mouth. I am not defending that model and am in no way suggesting we go back to the old ways for the sake of work. What I am saying is 20 years ago, you could easily find a job that supported a family. However, there is a lot of stuff manufactured outside of the US that could be made here. And people here could afford it if they were able to make a decent wage. 

What we are seeing goes way beyond the "growing pains of the obliteration of the old notion of "geography"". What we are now seeing, on a global scale, is what happens when there are more people in a society than are required to sustain it. The problem will only get worse as populations grow.

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #196 on: April 20, 2015, 12:35:51 PM »
As we've discussed (quite briefly, albeit) in another forum, isn't it about time we start considering the next step?

What step is that?

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #197 on: April 20, 2015, 12:36:24 PM »
1) How many car plant jobs have been replaced by robots? And don't come back with the "well someone needs to fix and program them". Please. For every job those things created they got rid of a few thousand.

2) How many warehouse workers have been replaced by autonomous forklifts? Amazon is adding an additional 10,000 to their army this year alone.

3) I went to the races at Saratoga last year. There were about 300 touch displays where tellers once worked.

4) Firms used to have accounting departments hundreds of people deep and now all you need is handful of people and a software license.

5) How many travel agencies have gone under because of the internet?

6) 411 and phone operators?

7) What happens when every cab in the country is driven by a computer?

I'm sorry, Calvin, but your statement is 100% wrong. The amount of jobs that disappeard, not to be confused with jobs lost, is terrifying.


You're both wrong, because you haven't accounted for the thousands of baristas that didn't exist in 1970.  Or the thousands of software developers that didn't exist in 1970.   Or thousands of IT and LAN administrators that didn't exist in 1970.   Or any of the other 100s of jobs that exist by virtue of our increasing (and aging) population, like therapists, nurses, healthcare administrators...

That some people didn't adapt skillsets to actually do these jobs is another topic entirely, but you cannot look at this stuff in a vacuum.  It doesn't work that way.  It's not a closed system. 

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #198 on: April 20, 2015, 12:38:24 PM »
I'm sorry, Calvin, but your statement is 100% wrong. The amount of jobs that disappeard, not to be confused with jobs lost, is terrifying.
First, what about all the people that lost their job because of the printing press?

Second, the world getting more complicated has created more jobs as well.  IT department.  Computer hardware and software jobs.  Intermediaries that communicate between management / sales / etc and the proprietary software development.  Jobs that require scanning of paper into e-docs.

Third, the internet provides an education that has never been available before.  I'm surprised state and federal governments haven't taken advantage of this to create guided courses for every possible profession.  I'm guessing teacher unions are against that.  This might be one of the most important things the government can do right now.  It would finally make the Dept. of Education a valuable asset instead of a waste of resources.

Fourth, you forgot global competition.

Fifth, what happened to "they do the jobs we don't want to do."

How would you fix this?  It sounds like you are for population control.

I am 100% in favor of population control. This planet is already maxing out at 7 billion people. What happens when that number reaches 10 or 12 billion? Sure we'll build more robts and eventually find a way to make meat in labs, but billions of people won't be needed. You'll see poverty and lower class at a scale never before seen.

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #199 on: April 20, 2015, 01:01:39 PM »

Please do not put words in my mouth. I am not defending that model and am in no way suggesting we go back to the old ways for the sake of work. What I am saying is 20 years ago, you could easily find a job that supported a family. However, there is a lot of stuff manufactured outside of the US that could be made here. And people here could afford it if they were able to make a decent wage. 

What we are seeing goes way beyond the "growing pains of the obliteration of the old notion of "geography"". What we are now seeing, on a global scale, is what happens when there are more people in a society than are required to sustain it. The problem will only get worse as populations grow.

(I hope you don't mind that I cut out all the older quotes)

I won't argue your point on population, because we haven't begun to successfully integrate almost a third of the world's population into the model we're talking about.   And I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, but respectfully, I think you are missing the boat; it isn't "not made here" because of fat cat executives, it is "not made here" because it SHOULDN'T be made here.   What you're saying is not sustainable.  It just doesn't make any sense to pay a person $35,000, or even $12/hr., to stand there and take a ticket.    Not if you want that ticket to be affordable.   You are missing that it isn't JUST the wage; it is the benefits, the replacement in times of vacation, sickness, or other incapacitation, it is the cost of quality...  the list goes on.   And the same applies to manufacturing; the big picture is, it doesn't work to isolate a small part of a big system and say "well, we pay the workers more then they can afford to pay more for the goods themselves, and then the company will sell more, and be able to pay the workers more..." like it's a big wheel and if it wasn't for Fat Cat ExecutivesTM siphoning off the profits, it would work!   You forget that the Chinese want to build things too.  And the Japanese.  And the Brazilians.   And the Germans.   And the Indians.    And unless you are going to close your borders to all of them, you can't just be non-competitive because it's "our country".  Your solution has been tried and failed more than once in Detroit. 

It is no harder or easier (absent momentary economy hitches) to find a job today than it was in 1995.  It's just DIFFERENT jobs.   See my other post.  For every person that doesn't get hired to take tickets at Saratoga, or build TVs for Magnavox, there is someone being hired to do maintenance at any one of the thousands of hotels that are springing up all over the US.   


Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #200 on: April 20, 2015, 01:02:21 PM »


I am 100% in favor of population control. This planet is already maxing out at 7 billion people. What happens when that number reaches 10 or 12 billion? Sure we'll build more robts and eventually find a way to make meat in labs, but billions of people won't be needed. You'll see poverty and lower class at a scale never before seen.

Honest question:  how do you propose to do that? 

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #201 on: April 20, 2015, 01:27:12 PM »


I am 100% in favor of population control. This planet is already maxing out at 7 billion people. What happens when that number reaches 10 or 12 billion? Sure we'll build more robts and eventually find a way to make meat in labs, but billions of people won't be needed. You'll see poverty and lower class at a scale never before seen.

Honest question:  how do you propose to do that?

You'd need to infringe on people's right to reproduce and limit them to one offspring per family. I know it sounds sick and disgusting, but realistically, that'd be the only way. People would never willingly do that on their own accord. Part of me feels like an asshole saying that, but the other part of me knows that a population in excess of 10 billion people is the absolute last thing our species needs.

I'll address your prior post when I'm off work.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #202 on: April 20, 2015, 01:34:08 PM »
So close the borders?

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #203 on: April 20, 2015, 01:36:48 PM »
Should we require suicide to immediately shrink the population?

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #204 on: April 20, 2015, 01:42:10 PM »
So close the borders?

Should we require suicide to immediately shrink the population?

For fuck's sake. Where did I write anything about manditory suicide? And no, the borders won't make any difference.  I think it's cute that you threw that shot at Obama in there. That's completely irrelevant by the way. Chinese, Indian, and Hispanic reproductive rates have nothing to do with our borders.

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #205 on: April 20, 2015, 01:58:16 PM »
Where did I write anything about manditory suicide?
So as long as your life is guaranteed, then it is ok to limit the potential lives of others.  BTW, how will this population control affect Social Security and Medicare/aid?

Quote
And no, the borders won't make any difference. 
How do you figure that?  Ask somebody that lost that "lower or middle class" job if it doesn't make a difference. Whether it be the IT job, the farming job, construction job, assembly line job .... weren't those the things you actually cited as being lost?

Quote
I think it's cute that you threw that shot at Obama in there.
Actually, you brought up Obama, so .....

Quote
That's completely irrelevant by the way. Chinese, Indian, and Hispanic reproductive rates have nothing to do with our borders.
Really?   So are we going to limit population by race?

Offline Chino

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #206 on: April 21, 2015, 06:06:51 AM »
Where did I write anything about manditory suicide?
So as long as your life is guaranteed, then it is ok to limit the potential lives of others.  BTW, how will this population control affect Social Security and Medicare/aid?


Not sure where you are going with this. I don't get why you are hung up on suicide. All I'm saying is that if there was a 1 child only law in every nation, it'd go a long way to sustaining a semi-decent way of life for the people on this planet. My life would be affected in the same exact way everyone else's life is. Social Security and Medicare would remain exactly the same.



Quote
And no, the borders won't make any difference. 
How do you figure that?  Ask somebody that lost that "lower or middle class" job if it doesn't make a difference. Whether it be the IT job, the farming job, construction job, assembly line job .... weren't those the things you actually cited as being lost?


Think beyond the scope of just the United States for a minute. I'm talking about the world as a whole. We could lock the borders down completely and there's still only so many people that will be needed to make our cellphones and nike sneakers. You'd have poverty on a whole new level the world over. But I don't get what you're trying to say here either. I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass or play dumb, but I don't really get what you are arguing.




Quote
I think it's cute that you threw that shot at Obama in there.
Actually, you brought up Obama, so .....


Well seeing as you show more disdain toward Obama than anyone else here, and that 'close our borders' phrase is one of the biggest buzz phrases when belittling the the president, it wasn't that hard to figure out.


That's completely irrelevant by the way. Chinese, Indian, and Hispanic reproductive rates have nothing to do with our borders.
Really?   So are we going to limit population by race?
[/quote]

No.

Calvin6s

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #207 on: April 21, 2015, 10:43:09 PM »

Offline vtgrad

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #208 on: April 22, 2015, 08:39:27 AM »
Regarding population control: I honestly see where Chino is going with his point... and I do think he has a point.  It's a nasty conversation to think about having.

But lets think of the alternative as well.  If WE (read human race) do not do SOMETHING about over-population (which may or may not happen; for the sake of conversation, lets say it does happen), our planet and it's limited resources will take care of the problem on it's own.  Limited food (and food production), water, energy (unless someone smart figures out cold fusion), and land (gotta have somewhere to live right?) may create disease (think Doomsday) and war over the dwindling resources.
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter; Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."  Ecclesiastes 12:13

Now with Twitler taking a high end steak of this caliber and insulting the cow that died for it by having it well done just shows zero respect for the product, which falls right in line with the amount of respect he shows for pretty much everything else.- Lonestar

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race
« Reply #209 on: April 22, 2015, 08:48:23 AM »
Yeah, we will eventually have a population decrease, one way or the other.

If we don't take an active approach to it, and just let nature run its course, it will get ugly.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.