The Song Roulette Tracker Thread 3.0 - v. Betting on red just this once

[ariich]

I'd love to defend my title!

[twosuitsluke]

I'd love to defend my title!

*Narrator...

"Rich did indeed go on to defend his title"

I plan to start my 3rd roulette next week. Who is in?

I want to tweak the scoring a bit, I think. But I might have to wait and see how many want to participate.

1. TAC

Me me me!

Nearly spit out my morning tea

I'm in if you'll have me James. Is there a theme?

[lonestar]

In... Don't listen to that playlist I sent ya, I may want to pull from it lol

[ReaperKK]

I'm in!

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I plan to start my 3rd roulette next week. Who is in?

I'm game.  I don't anticipate doing quite as well, and I'm thinking I might go back to more somewhat lesser-known artists, since there's a ton left in the vault. 

[Sacul]

I guess I could join and keep sending the worst song of each round if you don't mind

[Lonk]

I plan to start my 3rd roulette next week. Who is in?

I want to tweak the scoring a bit, I think. But I might have to wait and see how many want to participate.

1. TAC

Me me me!

You shut your mouth! 

[Jamesman42]

Awesome, we should have enough and a few more might be interested when I make the thread!

I will probably start it in the next few days so I can get participants locked in, and I have Friday off so I will be able to get some really good listening in that day, too.

I am rethinking the scoring, as I mentioned. If I have 14 again, I would possibly do the scoring like what is below. I am not sure if that would mess it up, but I think I had too many 6's and maybe even too many 7's. I would like to break it up a bit more and keep the game a little closer. Any thoughts on this? I love feedback.

10
9.5
9
8.5
8.5
8
8
8
7.5
7.5
7
7
6.5
6

Edit: I didn't like that many 6's because you guys are choosing what is usually the best stuff from those years, and I was giving songs I liked a 6 a lot.

Also, the theme would be the exact same.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I guess I just fundamentally have trouble wrapping my head around preassigned values for stackers.  Straight linear ones at least force you to decide on an order, although the lowest ranks of course get killed each time.  But for the ones like your's and TAC's, it would drive me crazy as it shifted from round to round.  Like, what if one round you had three songs that all felt like 7s, but you have to arbitrarily assign one lower or higher even though you don't really feel differently about it than the other two.  And then exceptionally good rounds, unusually bad ones, and average ones of course are indistinguishable unless you specifically mention it.  I guess the idea is that after enough rounds those sort of irregularities cosmically balance out. 

[Jamesman42]

I get that. Round 1 and Round 9 especially stick out as crazy good rounds that felt particularly bad giving out low scores.

Is the only other option to rank out of 10 (or some other highest value)? So I would give a song a 7.2 or an 8.6 or a 1.3 based on how I feel about it absolutely? But then that seems too open as well.

[Sacul]

Just give them all a 10/10

[Jamesman42]

In the end, I am just trying to catch up and get the best stuff, so maybe they all are in 10's in our heart.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I guess I should first say that it'd probably be boring if everyone used the exact same method, and it's interesting to see how other formats work out.  I like the open approach because round to round it captures more accurately the nuance I feel about each entry, sometimes with songs being equal, sometimes there being larger gaps, and I don't have to arbitrarily force everything together if it doesn't actually reflect my opinion.  I guess a disadvantage is that it can be influenced somewhat by mood each round, trying to compensate in one direction or the other, or trying to compare to previous scores in earlier rounds.  Honestly I probably use my method because I'm so used to rating things on Rate Your Music, so I have a pretty good idea of what an 8/10 or such sounds like to me. 

The linear stacker I suppose makes for more drama, with wilder swings round to round, a greater sense that you can catch back up with a lucky few rounds, and a sense that no one is really safe.  But I love hearing reasoning for why other people prefer different structures. 

[jingle.boy]

I guess I just fundamentally have trouble wrapping my head around preassigned values for stackers.  Straight linear ones at least force you to decide on an order, although the lowest ranks of course get killed each time.  But for the ones like your's and TAC's, it would drive me crazy as it shifted from round to round.  Like, what if one round you had three songs that all felt like 7s, but you have to arbitrarily assign one lower or higher even though you don't really feel differently about it than the other two.  And then exceptionally good rounds, unusually bad ones, and average ones of course are indistinguishable unless you specifically mention it.  I guess the idea is that after enough rounds those sort of irregularities cosmically balance out.

I'm with ya on this.  If the stack rank method is going to be used, then rank each entry from top to bottom, with equal increments is the way to go.  Otherwise you're (royal you, not you/James specifically) are adding some subjective opinion as to which rankings are the ties.  Like, what if you really think the songs that are "equal" in scoring are 7s, not 8.5s.  You (James) are going to be forcing certain songs into certain scores inconsistently across rounds.  If you're committed to a stacked scheme, I wouldn't force yourself to follow a prescribed score that will be used for ties.

As for "the lowest ranks get killed each time", it is possible to recover.  Years ago, in Big Hath's roulette, I scored a 1 in the very first round, and ended up placing 2nd overall, just a couple of points away from winning it.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I think it's more just that receiving a "1" or a "2" psychologically stings a bit more than a "6" does, though if you're committing to scoring and ranking it's impossible to get away from it entirely, even if you hand out nothing but 9s and 10s the people with the most 9s are still going to be at the bottom of the rankings, no way around it. 

[ariich]

I dunno, a completely linear ranking doesn't work for me because my opinions/ratings are never spread that evenly.

I myself do an open score out of 10 these days, but if I was going to do a stacker I'd probably lean more towards Tim's style of doing it - a bell curve/normal distribution probably is pretty close to the average distribution in my roulettes, lots of clustering around the 7.8-8.3 region and then a small number of higher or lower scores. And you make some good points in favour of it Litho, like simply being able to rank things and not needing to worry about consistency with previous round scores etc.

But like you I default to x/10 because I'm so used to doing it on RYM, even though I do rate albums slightly differently to how I rate roulette submissions.

[TAC]

I guess I just fundamentally have trouble wrapping my head around preassigned values for stackers.  Straight linear ones at least force you to decide on an order, although the lowest ranks of course get killed each time.  But for the ones like your's and TAC's, it would drive me crazy as it shifted from round to round.  Like, what if one round you had three songs that all felt like 7s, but you have to arbitrarily assign one lower or higher even though you don't really feel differently about it than the other two.  And then exceptionally good rounds, unusually bad ones, and average ones of course are indistinguishable unless you specifically mention it.  I guess the idea is that after enough rounds those sort of irregularities cosmically balance out.

Basically, yes. If I could do it again, I would've made 6 the lowest grade, not the 5.

But as long as the scoring stays consistent, it's still fair. I ran my Stacker to resemble a bell curve to go with the school theme. It's not something I'd use again. I generally don't like stackers. The only other time I used it was in my Opposites Attract roulette where I stacked two sets of songs and the average was the score. That's why I instituted the Extra Credit song, to kind of make up a point or two if you got stacked at or near the bottom of a round.

In my current roulette, the Stacker has indeed pushed songs down, but it's also pushed a few songs up as well.

[Jamesman42]

So you guys would prefer just rating out of 10? I'm open to it. I guess I was wary because I thought that it was too open-ended.

And, out of 10, do some people not use decimals and some do? I actually am unsure since the time I have been back, I have only looked at my own and Tim's, both of which use the stacker.

[TAC]

So you guys would prefer just rating out of 10? I'm open to it. I guess I was wary because I thought that it was too open-ended.

And, out of 10, do some people not use decimals and some do? I actually am unsure since the time I have been back, I have only looked at my own and Tim's, both of which use the stacker.

I don't typically use the stacker though. I usually rate out of 10.

7.5...if I basically like the song. I'll rate lower the moe I don't like it.
8.0... if it's good
8.5... if I really like it
9.0...if it's fucking A awesome.

Those are my basic..steps. But from there, I'll use tenths of a point to further differentiate. 

Here's an example of how I scored my 2023 round in my last roulette..

8.8 Wolfking  Hellripper – Warlocks Grim & Withered Hags
8.7 Twosuitsluke  Celestial Wizard – Ice Realm
8.6 Lithojazzosphere  Conspiracy Of Zero -  Ahthos Arouris II
8.5 Puppies  Imperium Dekadenz – Memories… A Raging River
8.5 DragonAttack  Robin McAuley – Stronger Than Before
8.5 Jingle Boy  The Raven Age – Parasite
8.5 Crow  Witch Ripper - Enter The Loop
8.0 Tomislav  Paramore – The News
8.0 Vmadera  Galneryus – Bravehearts
8.0 Lonestar  The Hu – This Is Mongol
7.9 Ariich  The World Is Quiet Here - Impetus I:Torrid Sands
7.9  Buddyhunter  The Enigma Division – The Age Of Discovery
7.8 Kingshmegland  Anasazi – Trapped
7.7 Romdrums  The Enigma Division – Echoes In The Deep
7.5 Faizoff  Peter Gabriel – Panopticom
7.5 Stadler  Steve Vai – She Saved My Life Tonight
7.4 Elite  Haken – Lovebite
7.4 Reaper  Jakub Zytecki – Wait

[jingle.boy]

1/2 point increments are most common. Some have used 1/10ths - Rich recently, and I did once as well.

There’s no set ‘rule’. You make the rules. Do whatever is best or natural for you.

[TAC]

There’s no set ‘rule’. You make the rules. Do whatever is best or natural for you.

THIS!!!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

1/2 point increments are most common. Some have used 1/10ths - Rich recently, and I did once as well.

There’s no set ‘rule’. You make the rules. Do whatever is best or natural for you.

This. I mean, Crow used strawberries as a scoring system in a roulette a few years ago...

[HOF]

I figure if I ever do a roulette I would use the 20-80 scale from baseball scouting. Basically, 5 is average, and nobody is likely to send anything below a 2 or above an 8.

[ariich]

So you guys would prefer just rating out of 10? I'm open to it. I guess I was wary because I thought that it was too open-ended.

We're just saying we prefer it when we're hosting our own roulettes. I don't mind what the system is in a roulette I'm playing in. As host you should do whatever you think is most sensible/interesting/fun.

[Jamesman42]

Oh yeah, I know I make the rules  But I like to see what the other options are. As I saw TAC's roulette unfold, I stole some of his ways of doing things toward the end.

[ariich]

Oh yeah, I know I make the rules 

Yeah for sure, I just meant that preferring it a certain way as host doesn't mean we have the same preference (or indeed any preference) as players. Basically, don't worry about us!

[Crow]

ideal roulette scoring: every song gets either an 8.5, a 6.9, or a 4, nothing else

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I might do another one of these soon, anyone potentially interested? It'd be my normal bare-bones style, no themed rounds or complicated rules, just send songs and get scores. I might do the '20 minutes of music from an artist' thing again instead of single songs, though. It tended to make scoring and writeups a bit more work, but overall I think I got a better impression of the artists people were sending me.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Definitely. 

[TAC]

Fo sho!

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Absolutely

[ariich]

Shadow! Awesome to see you.

I would of course love a chance to defend my title.

[lonestar]

Fuck...just realized Rich has tied me in the standings...I gotta take these things seriously for a bit and finally pass Seneca.

[ReaperKK]

I'm in Shadow!

[ariich]

Fuck...just realized Rich has tied me in the standings...I gotta take these things seriously for a bit and finally pass Seneca.

If and when Puppies feels able to return to his roulette, I'm somewhat hopeful I might win/have won that one too. I was in the lead and I put quite a bit of time and effort into my final concept album.