Author Topic: Ytsejam official bootlegs  (Read 10324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Prog Snob

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 16727
  • Gender: Male
  • In the end we're left infinitely and utterly alone
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2015, 01:08:20 PM »
The only ones I listen to with ANY regularity anymore are select live albums, particularly the NYC '93 show, the '95 show with Derek and his performance of the full version of ACOS (which is interesting to hear HIM play it full), and the WDADRU show. Other live shows get spun every now and then, but ever since I pieced together the full Paris show from OIALT, I don't spin the '96 or '98 shows often.

The covers get a listen every now and then, but I'll admit it's been over a year or two since I listened to ANY of them, be it the covers compilation or the cover albums.

If you include the complete Bottrill mixes from the Making of SFAM, then I listen to them all the time since it's the only version of SFAM I listen to (since it has stuff in it that was cut out from the actual release).

-Marc.


What were your sources for piecing the complete OIALT show, if I may ask? I love the rawness of that live album..Would love to hear it complete.

There is a complete bootleg of that show, without having to go to the trouble of piecing it together.   ;)

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43504
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2015, 10:02:44 PM »
I don't think the Ytsejam releases were "uncut".  They were just recorded on DAT, so there would little, if any, correction that could be made on individual instruments/vocals.  But the recording as a whole could be EQ'd/mastered.

As I understand the terms, EQ/mastering doesn't drop out entire vocal lines (just enhances what's there).  Is it possible, though, that the DAT didn't pick up everything? 

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4520
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2015, 11:34:23 PM »
I don't think the Ytsejam releases were "uncut".  They were just recorded on DAT, so there would little, if any, correction that could be made on individual instruments/vocals.  But the recording as a whole could be EQ'd/mastered.

As I understand the terms, EQ/mastering doesn't drop out entire vocal lines (just enhances what's there).  Is it possible, though, that the DAT didn't pick up everything?
You're correct on the EQ/mastering. It's possible that the DAT didn't pick up everything, but highly unlikely considering that it probably recorded exactly what was played over the PA at the show. I'd wager that it's more likely that vocals were changed/added on the multi-track recordings in the studio after the fact. Considering that JL was still in the relatively early stages of recovery from his vocal issues, if there's a change (which I never noticed since I never did an A-B comparison), then it was probably to fix/improve his performance.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline bobs23

  • human mic stand
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 294
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2015, 06:32:05 AM »
You are correct about the DAT recordings. When I did the mastering of those, they were feeds from the main board outputs. So what you got was what was mixed for the PA, it sometimes created an unbalanced sound on the DAT as sometimes instruments were raised or lowered for the PA effect. I do remember a few instances where the DAT's were not complete as the FOH engineer either didn't start the recorder right away or forgot to change tapes. In more than one instance I filled it in with an audience boot.

@progsnob  Yes a complete boot of the Paris show exists.The audience recording that is out there I feel sounds better than the official release. You just have to know where to look for it.  ;)

Offline Prog Snob

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 16727
  • Gender: Male
  • In the end we're left infinitely and utterly alone
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2015, 07:41:04 AM »
You are correct about the DAT recordings. When I did the mastering of those, they were feeds from the main board outputs. So what you got was what was mixed for the PA, it sometimes created an unbalanced sound on the DAT as sometimes instruments were raised or lowered for the PA effect. I do remember a few instances where the DAT's were not complete as the FOH engineer either didn't start the recorder right away or forgot to change tapes. In more than one instance I filled it in with an audience boot.

@progsnob  Yes a complete boot of the Paris show exists.The audience recording that is out there I feel sounds better than the official release. You just have to know where to look for it.  ;)

I know how to get it, my friend.   ;)

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43504
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2015, 11:55:04 AM »
Thank you all for answering my question.  It might sound weird, but it is awesome to put that niggling question to rest after all this time.

Offline ZirconBlue

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2015, 12:56:24 PM »
Thank you all for answering my question.  It might sound weird, but it is awesome to put that niggling question to rest after all this time.
The answers given, though, confuse me more as to how James' "Mike, you wanna do this?" is on the Hollow Years single, but not on the Ytsejam boot.  I thought it was edited out, but it sounds like that wouldn't have been possible with the YJR release.

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4520
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2015, 01:05:51 PM »
Thank you all for answering my question.  It might sound weird, but it is awesome to put that niggling question to rest after all this time.
The answers given, though, confuse me more as to how James' "Mike, you wanna do this?" is on the Hollow Years single, but not on the Ytsejam boot.  I thought it was edited out, but it sounds like that wouldn't have been possible with the YJR release.
Don't have time to listen to the tracks now, but is it possible that they just edited out that section of the recording completely (so that the gap between songs is shorter)? That's easy to do whether using multi-track recordings or 2-track recordings using editing software. It's exactly what was done between ACoS and WFS on the 1993 NYC official bootleg - JL originally made comments about the audience making some noise for them having just played ACoS (which can be heard on the well-circulated audience recordings) whereas the official bootleg doesn't have any comments between those two songs whatsoever.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline ZirconBlue

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2015, 01:45:42 PM »
Thank you all for answering my question.  It might sound weird, but it is awesome to put that niggling question to rest after all this time.
The answers given, though, confuse me more as to how James' "Mike, you wanna do this?" is on the Hollow Years single, but not on the Ytsejam boot.  I thought it was edited out, but it sounds like that wouldn't have been possible with the YJR release.
Don't have time to listen to the tracks now, but is it possible that they just edited out that section of the recording completely (so that the gap between songs is shorter)? That's easy to do whether using multi-track recordings or 2-track recordings using editing software. It's exactly what was done between ACoS and WFS on the 1993 NYC official bootleg - JL originally made comments about the audience making some noise for them having just played ACoS (which can be heard on the well-circulated audience recordings) whereas the official bootleg doesn't have any comments between those two songs whatsoever.

No, because it's in the transition from Another Hand to The Killing Hand.  Basically, just before James' entrance in the song.

Offline Rodni Demental

  • Posts: 1113
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2015, 06:42:14 PM »
I have all the CDs but none of the DVDs. Which is crazy but I'm more likely to listen to music than sit down and watch it. For me, all of the Live boots pretty much get similar rotation fairly regularly along with the official live albums. And I tend to have a phase of listening to live material after a phase of listening to the studio albums.

As for the Covers, I listen to Pink Floyd and the other Uncovered albums more than the others. Then Deep Purple but I don't listen to Metallica or Maiden a whole lot, mostly because if I want to listen to those band's songs, I'll listen to those bands, but I still favour a lot of DT covers in other cases.

To me, one of the coolest parts of these releases is the 'making of' in studio albums. They are very interesting but admittedly I haven't really listened to them a whole lot.

I think the Majesty Demos are the same way, very interesting but not much replay value. I&W/Awake demos I've played a bit more but still not too often. TOT instrumentals and FII demos have received probably the most plays out of the demos.

By not having the DVDs, I can still look forward to the commentary of WDADRU. I've watched all the others and although I've been able to watch the actual show online, I haven't had access to the bonus features. Also haven't really seen Bucharest, just snippets. I'd like to get a hold of these ones and I hear the Santiago show isn't too bad either. Oh, also haven't seen Dark Side of the Moon, listened to it of course, but I would like to actually sit down and watch that one some time.

Offline Scorpion

  • Unreal Heir
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9908
  • Gender: Male
  • Ragnarök around the Clöck!
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2015, 05:16:03 AM »
I don't much listen to any of the studio stuff like demos, but two live shows that I would rank among the best of DT's career are the '93 NYC show and the World Tourbulence in Bucharest DVD. The first one contains a live version of Eve :heart and the second one contains what just might be the version of Lines in the Sand in existance.
scorpion is my favorite deathcore lobster
Hey, the length is fine :azn: Thanks!

Offline CaelPetrucci

  • Posts: 26
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2015, 05:30:33 AM »
FII demos, SFAM alternate mix and the making of both albums! I also like When Dream and Day Reunite, personally I feel it's better than the original album, as I do prefer LaBrie's vocals for those songs, however prefer Dominici for To Live Forever and Metropolis. An odd opinion I kniw, but it's mine.


Also, hi everyone, this is my first post!

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2015, 06:34:39 AM »
FII demos, SFAM alternate mix and the making of both albums! I also like When Dream and Day Reunite, personally I feel it's better than the original album, as I do prefer LaBrie's vocals for those songs, however prefer Dominici for To Live Forever and Metropolis. An odd opinion I kniw, but it's mine.


Also, hi everyone, this is my first post!
Welcome!
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline ?

  • Apparently the best username
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11742
  • Gender: Male
  • Less=Moore, Even Less=Wilson
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2015, 08:48:13 AM »
The only YJR release I own is the '93 NYC show. I don't listen to it often, but I'm glad I have it, because a live release including all of I&W, Eve, To Live Forever, ACOS '93 and Another Hand/The Killing Hand can only be fantastic :2metal:

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12827
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2015, 09:19:22 AM »
I also like When Dream and Day Reunite, personally I feel it's better than the original album, as I do prefer LaBrie's vocals for those songs, however prefer Dominici for To Live Forever and Metropolis. An odd opinion I kniw, but it's mine.

Actually, I don't think it's that odd at all.  Generally speaking, I much prefer James' voice to Charlie's.  James has more range and power, and I just generally prefer the qualities of James' voice.  However, for that show, although James was good, it was not his best night.  And by the time of those two songs, his voice was noticeably tired.  Although some of Charlie's note choices were odd, overall, when his voice coming in fresh was put next to James' already-tired voice, Charlie had a very warm, full sound to his voice, whereas James sounded thin and shrill in comparison.  I will take James any night of the week, but I completely get why someone would say they prefer Charlie on that performance of those two songs.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2015, 09:24:14 AM »
I also like When Dream and Day Reunite, personally I feel it's better than the original album, as I do prefer LaBrie's vocals for those songs, however prefer Dominici for To Live Forever and Metropolis. An odd opinion I kniw, but it's mine.

Actually, I don't think it's that odd at all.  Generally speaking, I much prefer James' voice to Charlie's.  James has more range and power, and I just generally prefer the qualities of James' voice.  However, for that show, although James was good, it was not his best night.  And by the time of those two songs, his voice was noticeably tired.  Although some of Charlie's note choices were odd, overall, when his voice coming in fresh was put next to James' already-tired voice, Charlie had a very warm, full sound to his voice, whereas James sounded thin and shrill in comparison.  I will take James any night of the week, but I completely get why someone would say they prefer Charlie on that performance of those two songs.

I completely agree but I feel that To Live Forever was made for Charlie's voice.  The combination of James doing the intro and Charlie doing the rest of the song was simply amazing.  So yeah, I prefer James overall though I don't dislike Charlie's voice...but in that one instance (To Live Forever) Charlie has the superior voice, IMO.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34419
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2015, 04:02:19 PM »
I just enjoyed the duet in general, I thought it was very well done and their voices sounded well together.  Then add in the Sherinian keyboard and that made Metropolis such a magically song on that album.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74701
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2015, 04:39:32 PM »
That whole moment was fantastic. Charlie seemed incredibly cool.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12827
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2015, 07:53:19 PM »
...but I feel that To Live Forever was made for Charlie's voice. 

Well, it pretty much was.  :lol  It was written when Charlie was still in the band, so...
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Calvin6s

  • Guest
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2015, 08:29:52 PM »
That whole moment was fantastic. Charlie seemed incredibly cool.

The funny part was Dominci had just released the Majesty Basement tapes video a few years earlier and people weren't saying "Charlie seems cool".  There was quite a bit of "Charlie is sad.  This whole video tape thing is sad."  Not that it stopped us from buying it.   :laugh:

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2015, 10:08:57 PM »
...but I feel that To Live Forever was made for Charlie's voice. 

Well, it pretty much was.  :lol  It was written when Charlie was still in the band, so...

Well....there were quite a few songs written while Charlie was in the band that didn't really seem made for his voice...so there's that also...

Offline The Dark Master

  • Posts: 874
  • Gender: Male
  • Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2015, 02:29:32 PM »
...but I feel that To Live Forever was made for Charlie's voice. 

Well, it pretty much was.  :lol  It was written when Charlie was still in the band, so...

Well....there were quite a few songs written while Charlie was in the band that didn't really seem made for his voice...so there's that also...

Bear in mind much of WDADU was written before Charlie joined Majesty/DT.  In fact, I believe the only things on the album that were written with Charlie were Status Seeker, Light Fuse And Get Away (maybe), the lyrics/vocal melodies for Afterlife (the original version of the song with Chris Collins had completely different vocal parts), the Spanish guitar intro to the Killing Hand, and a few little other odds and ends (I recall Charlie saying somewhere, I think it was in the book for the 2004 remaster of the album, that the military snare part in TKH was his suggestion as well).  The point being that most of the album was still written for a singer of the Geoff Tate or Bruce Dickinson type.  In fact, it's rather ironic that To Live Forever, which was very much written with Charlie's voice in mind, was never properly recorded with him singing, just a rough demo from '88, while the versions of the song that were recorded with James in '91 and '94 were all very professional and of album-worthy quality.

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2015, 03:58:25 PM »
Good point but Metropolis was also written while Charlie was in the band, and while he sounded great on his section of the WDADRU performance, his voice is clearly not cut out for the entirety of the song.  When he has to sing the high parts as he did in 1989, it wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74701
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2015, 07:43:41 PM »
It has all worked out though, hasn't it?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4520
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2015, 07:55:35 PM »
Bear in mind much of WDADU was written before Charlie joined Majesty/DT.  In fact, I believe the only things on the album that were written with Charlie were Status Seeker, Light Fuse And Get Away (maybe), the lyrics/vocal melodies for Afterlife (the original version of the song with Chris Collins had completely different vocal parts), the Spanish guitar intro to the Killing Hand, and a few little other odds and ends (I recall Charlie saying somewhere, I think it was in the book for the 2004 remaster of the album, that the military snare part in TKH was his suggestion as well).  The point being that most of the album was still written for a singer of the Geoff Tate or Bruce Dickinson type.  In fact, it's rather ironic that To Live Forever, which was very much written with Charlie's voice in mind, was never properly recorded with him singing, just a rough demo from '88, while the versions of the song that were recorded with James in '91 and '94 were all very professional and of album-worthy quality.
Instrumentally, yes just about everything was written before Charlie joined the band, aside from Status Seeker and perhaps Light Fuse and Get Away. However, I don't believe any of the songs had all the vocal melodies written before Charlie joined the band. Keep in mind how Charlie got the gig in the first place - when he first met the guys, he tried singing their older songs (from the Majesty demos) and he couldn't cut it. But then he asked to try singing one of their new songs that apparently didn't have vocal melodies written yet, and it was what he did vocally with that new song that got their attention. Another example that proves this point (and is evident on the WDaDU Demos official bootleg) are the vocal melodies for TOWHtStS, which I believe were re-written several times before they finally came up with what is on the album. And as you pointed out, Afterlife received all new lyrics and vocal melodies. So I don't really think much (if any) of WDaDU had the vocal melodies pre-written before Charlie came into the picture.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Madman Shepherd

  • Posts: 3725
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2015, 10:02:27 PM »
Bear in mind much of WDADU was written before Charlie joined Majesty/DT.  In fact, I believe the only things on the album that were written with Charlie were Status Seeker, Light Fuse And Get Away (maybe), the lyrics/vocal melodies for Afterlife (the original version of the song with Chris Collins had completely different vocal parts), the Spanish guitar intro to the Killing Hand, and a few little other odds and ends (I recall Charlie saying somewhere, I think it was in the book for the 2004 remaster of the album, that the military snare part in TKH was his suggestion as well).  The point being that most of the album was still written for a singer of the Geoff Tate or Bruce Dickinson type.  In fact, it's rather ironic that To Live Forever, which was very much written with Charlie's voice in mind, was never properly recorded with him singing, just a rough demo from '88, while the versions of the song that were recorded with James in '91 and '94 were all very professional and of album-worthy quality.
Instrumentally, yes just about everything was written before Charlie joined the band, aside from Status Seeker and perhaps Light Fuse and Get Away. However, I don't believe any of the songs had all the vocal melodies written before Charlie joined the band. Keep in mind how Charlie got the gig in the first place - when he first met the guys, he tried singing their older songs (from the Majesty demos) and he couldn't cut it. But then he asked to try singing one of their new songs that apparently didn't have vocal melodies written yet, and it was what he did vocally with that new song that got their attention. Another example that proves this point (and is evident on the WDaDU Demos official bootleg) are the vocal melodies for TOWHtStS, which I believe were re-written several times before they finally came up with what is on the album. And as you pointed out, Afterlife received all new lyrics and vocal melodies. So I don't really think much (if any) of WDaDU had the vocal melodies pre-written before Charlie came into the picture.

This whole issue is something that JP actually brought up on That Metal Show when he asked Geddy Lee about how they fit the lyrics with the vocal melodies.  While JP didn't expand on how he does it, from what we know is that DT lyricists, maybe with the exception of John Myung, have at least a rough melody idea when they present the lyrics to James.  The I&W demos indicate that the melodies were written before any one vocalist was playing with the band.  Even with different interpretations of each of the singers they played with (Hendricks, Cintron, Arch, Stone), the melodies maintained all of the same foundation and the variations were minimal to moderate at most.  MP even went so far as to sing on a demo track of at least one song (HTF) which he featured on his tweetsecret account.  There was also Wither and Honor Thy Father with JP and MP on vocals respectively but I don't know if they ever confirmed that those were made solely as guide tracks for James or if they did it mainly for something special to put as bonus tracks for the single. 

So the question is...when did they start doing that?  Do they always do that now or only for some songs?

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41974
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2015, 10:43:36 PM »
The only two I have are WDADR and the Bucharest one, the latter of which is really great, especially since we didn't get an official DVD from the 6DOIT tour. 

I never bothered buying any of the demo ones cause I knew they'd be something I'd listen to once, and then never again.

Offline The Dark Master

  • Posts: 874
  • Gender: Male
  • Veteran of the Psychic Wars
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2015, 09:56:52 AM »
Bear in mind much of WDADU was written before Charlie joined Majesty/DT.  In fact, I believe the only things on the album that were written with Charlie were Status Seeker, Light Fuse And Get Away (maybe), the lyrics/vocal melodies for Afterlife (the original version of the song with Chris Collins had completely different vocal parts), the Spanish guitar intro to the Killing Hand, and a few little other odds and ends (I recall Charlie saying somewhere, I think it was in the book for the 2004 remaster of the album, that the military snare part in TKH was his suggestion as well).  The point being that most of the album was still written for a singer of the Geoff Tate or Bruce Dickinson type.  In fact, it's rather ironic that To Live Forever, which was very much written with Charlie's voice in mind, was never properly recorded with him singing, just a rough demo from '88, while the versions of the song that were recorded with James in '91 and '94 were all very professional and of album-worthy quality.
Instrumentally, yes just about everything was written before Charlie joined the band, aside from Status Seeker and perhaps Light Fuse and Get Away. However, I don't believe any of the songs had all the vocal melodies written before Charlie joined the band. Keep in mind how Charlie got the gig in the first place - when he first met the guys, he tried singing their older songs (from the Majesty demos) and he couldn't cut it. But then he asked to try singing one of their new songs that apparently didn't have vocal melodies written yet, and it was what he did vocally with that new song that got their attention. Another example that proves this point (and is evident on the WDaDU Demos official bootleg) are the vocal melodies for TOWHtStS, which I believe were re-written several times before they finally came up with what is on the album. And as you pointed out, Afterlife received all new lyrics and vocal melodies. So I don't really think much (if any) of WDaDU had the vocal melodies pre-written before Charlie came into the picture.

See, I've always gotten the impression that whoever wrote the lyrics to a given song also mostly wrote the vocal melodies to that song as well, so since SS and Afterlife are the only songs on the album that Charlie has writing credits on, I assumed that those two songs, and maybe LFAGA, are the ones where the vox parts were primarily written by, or at least with, Charlie, and the other songs were considered more or less complete when he joined the band.  Now as you pointed out, he got the gig by showing how good he sounded when he sang in a manner that was more comfortable for his voice, so they mostly likely let him put his own spin on all the songs regardless.  All that being said, though, it's still pretty obvious that, vocal melodies or no, most of the music on that album was written for a more metal singer (Status Seeker being the notable exception). 

For what it's worth, I think Charlie's voice fits most of the album well enough, but it really emphasizes the band's more 70's influences, especially Rush and Kansas, and down plays the more metal sections of the record that were intended to sound more in the vein of Queensryche or Metallica.  That's why Charlie sounds better on lighter, poppier songs like Status Seeker and To Live Forever; his voice is just more well suited for that kind of music.

Also, on the main topic of the thread, I have most of the YtseJam bootlegs, but the only ones I listen to on a regular basis are the FII demos, as I prefer that version of the album to the final product (aside from BMS/HK).  I also listen to the NY '93 boot fairly frequently as well, as it's great to have a decent quality recording of a complete I&W -era show, plus it has a better version of the old ACOS then what is on the I&W demos.  But beyond that, the others are mostly just curiosities for me; cool to have, but not the sort of thing I break out on a regular basis.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 10:02:46 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 4520
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2015, 09:08:58 PM »
The I&W demos indicate that the melodies were written before any one vocalist was playing with the band.  Even with different interpretations of each of the singers they played with (Hendricks, Cintron, Arch, Stone), the melodies maintained all of the same foundation and the variations were minimal to moderate at most.  MP even went so far as to sing on a demo track of at least one song (HTF) which he featured on his tweetsecret account.  There was also Wither and Honor Thy Father with JP and MP on vocals respectively but I don't know if they ever confirmed that those were made solely as guide tracks for James or if they did it mainly for something special to put as bonus tracks for the single. 
I can say confidently that yes, the Wither and TBoT tracks with JP's and MP's vocals were guide tracks, and not something to use as bonus tracks. If I'm not mistaken, on the first CD Making of SFaM, for TSCO, part of JP's guide vocal is on there too.


So the question is...when did they start doing that?  Do they always do that now or only for some songs?
See, I've always gotten the impression that whoever wrote the lyrics to a given song also mostly wrote the vocal melodies to that song as well, so since SS and Afterlife are the only songs on the album that Charlie has writing credits on, I assumed that those two songs, and maybe LFAGA, are the ones where the vox parts were primarily written by, or at least with, Charlie, and the other songs were considered more or less complete when he joined the band.  Now as you pointed out, he got the gig by showing how good he sounded when he sang in a manner that was more comfortable for his voice, so they mostly likely let him put his own spin on all the songs regardless.  All that being said, though, it's still pretty obvious that, vocal melodies or no, most of the music on that album was written for a more metal singer (Status Seeker being the notable exception).
You guys both bring up good points - I'm not sure when exactly the practice of writing the vocal melodies was up to the one writing the lyrics, but it could've been right from the beginning. I guess my point is that while the lyricist may have written the vocal melodies, they were either altered a bit (or perhaps Charlie put his own spin on them) if written before Charlie joined the band, or if written after he joined, that he probably worked with the lyricist to a degree and had some input in what would work best. It would explain why the vocal melodies on WDaDU may (overall) seem to fit his voic better than if he were to try to sing IaW the way JL did.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Prog Snob

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 16727
  • Gender: Male
  • In the end we're left infinitely and utterly alone
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2015, 10:28:09 PM »
The I&W demos indicate that the melodies were written before any one vocalist was playing with the band.  Even with different interpretations of each of the singers they played with (Hendricks, Cintron, Arch, Stone), the melodies maintained all of the same foundation and the variations were minimal to moderate at most.  MP even went so far as to sing on a demo track of at least one song (HTF) which he featured on his tweetsecret account.  There was also Wither and Honor Thy Father with JP and MP on vocals respectively but I don't know if they ever confirmed that those were made solely as guide tracks for James or if they did it mainly for something special to put as bonus tracks for the single. 
I can say confidently that yes, the Wither and TBoT tracks with JP's and MP's vocals were guide tracks, and not something to use as bonus tracks. If I'm not mistaken, on the first CD Making of SFaM, for TSCO, part of JP's guide vocal is on there too.

You are indeed correct.

"The spirit carries on Bongo..."

Offline puppyonacid

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2015, 05:40:18 AM »
Lotta talk about Charlie - anybody have any idea what he's up to these days?

I have the WDADR DVD and I thought it was pretty cool. I kinda wish we'd had the first set as well though. But it was a nice surprise to see CD on stage with DT.

As I understand, he got the performing bug and formed a band that put out an album or two. Didn't they even support DT? So what happened? Where'd he go?
This post was brought to you by Puppyonacid and subsequently ignored.

DTF's resident thread killer

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2015, 07:34:59 AM »
Lotta talk about Charlie - anybody have any idea what he's up to these days?
Being crazy.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline bosk1

  • King of Misdirection
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 12827
  • Bow down to Boskaryus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2015, 09:23:31 AM »
A few notes.  Given this discussion, I got the urge to take a few off the shelf and listen.  I grabbed the NYC show off the shelf first.  I glanced at the track list, and when I was reminded that they play Eve on this show, I slammed the CD back onto the shelf and stifled the urge to vomit.  But a little while later, I took it back off the shelf and figured I can just skep that track.  I also grabbed the '95 Tokyo show and the FII demos.   Listened to a lot of disk 1 of the FII demos on the way in to work today.  Good stuff.  But I have to say, even though I have come to really like FII, when it comes to the editorial decisions on the tracks that made it onto the album, I disagree with pretty much every single one of them.  The album was better before the songs were changed.
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline puppyonacid

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 943
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2015, 10:05:21 AM »
I wholeheartedly disagree with the above comment.

Every change that was made improved the songs that made it onto the album.
This post was brought to you by Puppyonacid and subsequently ignored.

DTF's resident thread killer

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53218
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Ytsejam official bootlegs
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2015, 10:47:16 AM »
I agree with the changes, also.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.