DTF Consensus Album Rankings (Results of Album Ranking Project Thread)

[425]

Here are the results of the album ranking thread I started a few weeks ago. The idea is to give the DTF consensus ranking of the 12 Dream Theater albums at this moment in time.

            Album                                      Score
1. Images and Words                            10.27      
2. Scenes from a Memory                      9.86      
3. Awake                                              9.14      
4. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence         8.80      
5. A Dramatic Turn of Events                  6.85      
6. Train of Thought                                6.48      
7. Falling Into Infinity                            5.62      
8. Octavarium                                       5.56      
9. Dream Theater                                  5.53      
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings            3.94      
11. Systematic Chaos                            3.66      
12. When Dream and Day Unite             2.58      

And here are some additional analytics for y'all regarding vote spread:



Overall, this was a very interesting survey to do. Some of the results could have been predicted, but others are perhaps more surprising, like the position of FII. In any case, here's what the forum thinks as a whole right now.

[BlobVanDam]

Mostly pretty much what I expected based on DTF's opinions.
ADTOE doesn't deserve to be near that high, but it's not unexpected. The only other surprise is the pleasant surprise of Octavarium nudging out DT12.

There also appear to be 3 clear tiers with whatever method you'd used to calculate this, with the obvious top 4 clear above the rest, and a drop to the bottom 3.

[425]

What's actually really interesting about that is what really happened from my perspective is FII nudged out 8VM. I had calculated the numbers which put 8VM just ahead of FII, but then I realized that I had forgotten to add in my own votes. My one 3rd place vote for FII was enough to push it ahead of 8VM.

[BlobVanDam]

And a fine difference you made there. FII is amazing.

[Skeever]

 

[425]

And a fine difference you made there. FII is amazing.

As for the method: the method I used to calculate was pretty straightforward, really. I basically assigned a point value to each different type of vote. For every first place vote an album received, it got 12 points. It got 11 points for every second place vote, etc, all the way down to 1 for a last place vote. I added up each album's total and divided it by the total number of votes received. 50 users voted, so I divided the total score by 50 to get the final score for every album except DT12. DT12 was divided by 49 because one user chose to leave it off of his list (and said so; it wasn't by accident).

I think that three-tier element is reflected in the vote spread. The top tier albums have the majority of their votes in the top 3, the mid tier albums have most of their votes in the middle 6, and the bottom tier albums have most of their votes in the bottom 3. Awake is the sole exception, but it had 10 fourth place votes, so looking at top 4 instead of top 3, it remains consistent with that rule as well.

[BlackInk]

Nothing too surprising. I have always been a bit sad that SC is so disliked, but like I said I'm not surprised.

[fischermasamune]

DT12 is 9th but very close to 7th and 8th. I thought ADTOE would rank a little below, and that SDOIT and Awake would be reversed. Other than that, it was more or less the expected.

Good initiative and good job.

[Mladen]

I'm proud of DTF putting ADTOE at number five.

I'm very happy with the top five, although I would switch the order a little bit. It's surprising to see Falling into infinity above some other albums, and I'm always a bit sad that Systematic chaos and Black clouds aren't getting that much love. But that wasn't unexpected.

Thanks for doing this, 425, it's a very interesting list. 

[The Cat Of Tuscany]

Awake over Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence?!?!?!
And Black Clouds And Silver Linings in 10th?!?!?!

Wow...

[BlobVanDam]

and I'm always a bit sad that Systematic chaos and Black clouds are getting that much love. But that wasn't unexpected.

I don't know what list you're reading, but it's sure not this one. If there's one thing SC and BCASL don't get here, it's love. The only albums they're above is WDADU, which never deserved any other spot than dead last.

[Nearmyth]

That's about expected based on DTF. I am a bit surprised how high ADTOE is and how low SC and DT12 are.

[JediKnight1969]

Pretty good...

[tweeg]

Is there any chance you can work out the standard deviation (or some other measure of spread) for each of the album rankings? I'd like to see which albums are more controversial than the others.

[Prog Snob]

I'm not surprised by ADTOE whatsoever.  Look at the rankings.  The two previous albums placed 10th and 11th.  It's obvious people disliked those two albums enough to consider ADTOE  welcome change.   Personally, I think ADTOE is a step up from the previous two releases.  I like the "Images and Words Part 2" songs.  Personally I like OTBOA better than PMU.  Anyways, I am not surprised by ADTOE's placement whatsoever. 

[425]

Is there any chance you can work out the standard deviation (or some other measure of spread) for each of the album rankings? I'd like to see which albums are more controversial than the others.

I don't really plan on doing any more work on this at the moment, and I'm not at all a statistician. But I'll provide a link to the spreadsheet that I recorded everything in, in case anyone else wants to do more work with the numbers.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8s5v5kc3xnuzo24/DTF%20Album%20Rankings%20Project.xlsx?dl=0

[krands85]

Great job 425, interesting stuff My 4 favourite DT albums are in the top 6, so I guess my views aren't too controversial for the most part. I suppose the top 4 and the bottom 3 were always likely to end up looking something like that and it's just the positioning of those that middle tier of 5 that is the most interesting.

One thing I'm wondering about the table though - why do the total votes for some of the albums not add up to 50? You explained DT12, but some of the others only add up to 49 as well (counting the votes from the top 3, middle 6 and bottom 3 columns). Feel like I'm missing something obvious here 

[425]

It's not obvious, I had to do some weird things with Podaar's list to make it work. I forgot to take that into account when tabulating those.

1. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
1a. Awake
1b. Metropolis Pt. 2: Scenes From a Memory
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
2a. Images and Words
3. Dream Theater
4. Train of Thought
5. Falling Into Infinity
6. Octavarium
7. Systematic Chaos


11. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
12. When Dream and Day Unite

Way to not follow simple rules.

Yeah, can't believe I didn't see this before today!  No matter, I worked it out. What I did is I split your first, second and third place points equally amongst your three that are tied for first (so each one got 11 points), and split your fourth and fifth place votes equally amongst your two that are tied after that (so each one got 8.5 points). Then I made DT12 your #6, because that's how it works with ties, and so on.

In any case. I'm just finishing up with the calculations, so expect to see a new thread with the results in a few minutes now.

[krands85]

 

[Calvin6s]

So let it be written, so let it be .... debated.

Considering my top 6 had 4 from the lists top 6 (and same for the bottom 6 by default), it just assures me that I'm not really holding DT to any outlier standard.  My feelings seem to be aligned with DT fans in general.

[Calvin6s]

JP Tweet
"This new album sounds like a mix between:
 Images and Words                                 
 Scenes from a Memory                           
 Awake                                                   
 Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence               
 A Dramatic Turn of Events                       
 Train of Thought"

[Zyzzyva17]

Ordering the albums from most agreement on ranking to least agreement:


Most agreement

Images and Words
Scenes from a Memory
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
When Dream and Day Unite
Systematic Chaos
Train of Thought
Octavarium
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling into Infinity
Awake
Dream Theater
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Least agreement

[bl5150]

I can live with any list that has I&W at #1 

[tweeg]

Ordering the albums from most agreement on ranking to least agreement:


Most agreement

Images and Words
Scenes from a Memory
Black Clouds & Silver Linings
When Dream and Day Unite
Systematic Chaos
Train of Thought
Octavarium
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling into Infinity
Awake
Dream Theater
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence

Least agreement

How did you measure the level of agreement?

[Mladen]

and I'm always a bit sad that Systematic chaos and Black clouds are getting that much love. But that wasn't unexpected.

I don't know what list you're reading, but it's sure not this one. If there's one thing SC and BCASL don't get here, it's love. The only albums they're above is WDADU, which never deserved any other spot than dead last.

I wanted to say ''aren't getting''. Fixed. 

[?]

Thanks for putting this together, 425!

Not a lot of surprises here... If you exclude WDADU, the tiers look pretty similar to my ranking. I love WDADU, but I knew there was no way it could be higher than #12. I'm glad ADTOE did so well, because it's one of my top 3 albums - looks like it's aged pretty well for a lot of people.

[RoeDent]

It's a really good idea to do this every so often, to have a "definitive" list of where the Forum community stands in terms of its top albums. Great work, 425! 

[BlobVanDam]

and I'm always a bit sad that Systematic chaos and Black clouds are getting that much love. But that wasn't unexpected.

I don't know what list you're reading, but it's sure not this one. If there's one thing SC and BCASL don't get here, it's love. The only albums they're above is WDADU, which never deserved any other spot than dead last.

I wanted to say ''aren't getting''. Fixed. 

That's more like it!

[Skeever]

I think the lyrics are what kill those two albums. Musically, they're middle of the pack DT albums. But lyrically they're all sorts of bad.

[Scorpion]

All of my Top 3 are above my Bottom 3, so while DTF's general tastes will never quite align with mine, I do think that this is a pretty good list.

[hefdaddy42]

Awake over Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence?!?!?!
And Black Clouds And Silver Linings in 10th?!?!?!

Wow...

Um, yes. Nothing surprising there.

[The Cat Of Tuscany]

Awake over Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence?!?!?!
And Black Clouds And Silver Linings in 10th?!?!?!

Wow...

Um, yes. Nothing surprising there.

Perhaps not for you, but definitely for me, since I find Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence to be miles ahead of Awake, and Black Clouds And Silver linings and Systematic Chaos to both be fantastic albums.

Oh well...

[Randaran]

And Black Clouds And Silver Linings in 10th?!?!?!

Wow...

I know, right? That's two places higher than it deserves! 

[fischermasamune]

And Black Clouds And Silver Linings in 10th?!?!?!

Wow...

I know, right? That's two places higher than it deserves! 

8th? Yeah, I think it'd be fair.