Daylight Savings - Yay or nay?

[Stadler]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

[lordxizor]

Yeah. this needs to be a nationwide thing for sure. Permanent DST is the way to go. I don't need daylight at 4:00 AM in June.

[Lonk]

Yeah. this needs to be a nationwide thing for sure. Permanent DST is the way to go. I don't need daylight at 4:00 AM in June.

Not sure that sunrise at 9am in winter is any better, either way we screwed 

[lordxizor]

Yeah. this needs to be a nationwide thing for sure. Permanent DST is the way to go. I don't need daylight at 4:00 AM in June.

Not sure that sunrise at 9am in winter is any better, either way we screwed 

I'd rather have 9:00 Am sunrise and 5:30 PM sunset than an hour earlier without DST. At least I get to see the sun for a little while after work with DST.

[Adami]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

I say we even go further! Let it be decided city by city, township by township, neighborhood by neighborhood, person by person.

Why should YOU get to tell ME what time it is?!?!

[Harmony]

I don't know if it is just a fact of getting older but each year it feels more difficult to get through the first week after a clock change.  My ass has been DRAGGING this week.  Plus it seems like I've seen more idiots than usual on the road.  I've almost been hit myself and have witness some close calls.  People are fucking tired and driving.  That is a recipe for disaster.

IDGAF if it is DST or standard time but let's just pick one and stick to it. 

[jingle.boy]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

I say we even go further! Let it be decided city by city, township by township, neighborhood by neighborhood, person by person.

Why should YOU get to tell ME what time it is?!?!

I love you.

[Orbert]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the Stadler.  Most people don't do a lot of business or other interactions with people in other states.  Or if they do, they're not passing through multiple states in the same day.  I'm in Chicago but do some remote work with folks in California.  I just have to remember that they're 2 hours behind me when scheduling meetings.  No big deal.

[lordxizor]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the Stadler.  Most people don't do a lot of business or other interactions with people in other states.  Or if they do, they're not passing through multiple states in the same day.  I'm in Chicago but do some remote work with folks in California.  I just have to remember that they're 2 hours behind me when scheduling meetings.  No big deal.

But if CA chose to do DST and your state didn't, now sometimes it would be 2 hours different and other times it would be 3. That would be confusing as hell to remember which states changed and which didn't. It needs to be nationwide.

[Dublagent66]

I live in AZ, the sweet spot!  The only time DST affects me is on my work calendar for Webex meetings.

[pg1067]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

That's how it already works.  Arizona is in the mountain time zone.  Between early November and early March, it's an hour ahead of the Pacific time zone states and the same time as all the other mountain states.  However, Arizona doesn't observe DST (save for Navajo territory).  Its residents never change their clocks.  As of last weekend, it's on the same time as Pacific states and an hour behind other mountain states.  Hawaii also doesn't observe DST.

But if CA chose to do DST and your state didn't, now sometimes it would be 2 hours different and other times it would be 3. That would be confusing as hell to remember which states changed and which didn't. It needs to be nationwide.

I once handled a case for a client in Arizona.  The case dragged on more than two years.  Every time the time changed, we had to recalibrate in our heads whether the client was on the same time as us or an hour ahead.  It wasn't that big of a deal, and nowadays, when things are scheduled using MS Outlook, MS Teams, and other such software, you don't have to think about it at all.

[jingle.boy]

^  I used to work for a company HQ'd in AZ.  Same thing.  Though, I see the point that if it was a State level decision, there would be a shit-ton of permutations of trying to figure out what time it is wherever depending on the time of year - as opposed to the relatively few (doesn't Indianapolis also NOT recognize DST??) that exist today.

[Orbert]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the Stadler.  Most people don't do a lot of business or other interactions with people in other states.  Or if they do, they're not passing through multiple states in the same day.  I'm in Chicago but do some remote work with folks in California.  I just have to remember that they're 2 hours behind me when scheduling meetings.  No big deal.

But if CA chose to do DST and your state didn't, now sometimes it would be 2 hours different and other times it would be 3. That would be confusing as hell to remember which states changed and which didn't. It needs to be nationwide.

I guess I still don't see the problem.  It changes twice a year.  Put a sticky note on your monitor or something if you can't remember.  I don't because it's just not that big a deal.

The vast majority of meetings these days are between 10 AM and 4 PM, possibly to accomodate the west coast folks, but probably not.  It's just always been that way.  We absorbed a company based in CA, but having meetings at 8 or 9 in the morning was always frowned upon anyway.  The folks in CA need to be on at 8, but too bad for them.  We bought them.  Ha!

[Stadler]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

I say we even go further! Let it be decided city by city, township by township, neighborhood by neighborhood, person by person.

Why should YOU get to tell ME what time it is?!?!

Mock noted, but that's not what this is.   Time is what time is. No one is "telling anyone" what the time is.  It's an arbitrary standard, is all.  If you want to live in Brooklyn and operate under Greenwich Mean Time, have at it, no one is stopping you (I know people that do something similar to that).  If you want to change time standards every four hours, have at it, no one is stopping you.  That doesn't seem like an efficient management of interstate commerce to me (and imagine the debacle that would ensue just in the transportation industry. Just in the AIRLINE industry.)

[Adami]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

I say we even go further! Let it be decided city by city, township by township, neighborhood by neighborhood, person by person.

Why should YOU get to tell ME what time it is?!?!

Mock noted, but that's not what this is.   Time is what time is. No one is "telling anyone" what the time is.  It's an arbitrary standard, is all.  If you want to live in Brooklyn and operate under Greenwich Mean Time, have at it, no one is stopping you (I know people that do something similar to that).  If you want to change time standards every four hours, have at it, no one is stopping you.  That doesn't seem like an efficient management of interstate commerce to me (and imagine the debacle that would ensue just in the transportation industry. Just in the AIRLINE industry.)

I wasn't mocking anyone, I was taking the piss. Next time I'll add some smileys or green font or something. I was agreeing with you in general.

[Stadler]

Yep.  Which is why having a federal law for such a huge country creates problems.  With this much mass, with this many people, it is basically impossible for the same rule to apply and benefit everyone.  So we settle for either the majority, or let states handle it individually (which obviously has the advantage of taking geography into consideration).

I'm fine with it being applied at the state level.  I understand that not everyone everywhere is affected by it the same way, but where I live, the vast majority of people are in favor of it.

Where you are, even in July with DST, doesn't the sun set pretty early? Whenever I travel I'm always surprised by how early the sun sets outside of Dallas.

And I kind of agree about letting the states decide, except that what people actually want won't be the criteria by which it's decided. The states will decide based on what's best for business, and that's DST. That's why it bugs me so much. It's actually kind of a scam.

Wait, what am I missing?  We can't possibly have states decide this. I'm in CT and we decide it's DST, but NY doesn't, NJ does, DE doesn't, MD does... I drive down the eastern seaboard and my clock is turning circles like a Flintstones cartoon.  How's that gonna work?

I'm not a huge government guy, but one of the things it's crystal clear that the government manages is "interstate commerce".  That's this.

I say we even go further! Let it be decided city by city, township by township, neighborhood by neighborhood, person by person.

Why should YOU get to tell ME what time it is?!?!

Mock noted, but that's not what this is.   Time is what time is. No one is "telling anyone" what the time is.  It's an arbitrary standard, is all.  If you want to live in Brooklyn and operate under Greenwich Mean Time, have at it, no one is stopping you (I know people that do something similar to that).  If you want to change time standards every four hours, have at it, no one is stopping you.  That doesn't seem like an efficient management of interstate commerce to me (and imagine the debacle that would ensue just in the transportation industry. Just in the AIRLINE industry.)

I wasn't mocking anyone, I was taking the piss. Next time I'll add some smileys or green font or something. I was agreeing with you in general.

(Sidebar, isn't that the same thing?  Isn't "taking the piss" the same as "mocking" someone?  Seriously, I'm asking for a friend.  I hate when I don't know what expressions mean or that I might be using them wrong.)

[Adami]

I was teasing. To me, at least, mockery includes a mean or malicious intent. I didn't have that. I was just being silly. Sorry if it was offensive.

[Stadler]

I was teasing. To me, at least, mockery includes a mean or malicious intent. I didn't have that. I was just being silly. Sorry if it was offensive.

Not at all.  We're good.   

[Adami]

I was teasing. To me, at least, mockery includes a mean or malicious intent. I didn't have that. I was just being silly. Sorry if it was offensive.

Not at all.  We're good.   

NOT ANYMORE WE'RE NOT!
















 

[hefdaddy42]

The Arizona thing is a good point, but there are stranger examples. If memory serves, in Indiana it can vary by county.

[jingle.boy]

[pg1067]

The Arizona thing is a good point, but there are stranger examples. If memory serves, in Indiana it can vary by county.

Indiana is funky in that most of the state is in the eastern time zone, but 6 northwestern counties (which are essentially part of the Chicago metro area) observe central time.  Another 6 counties in the southwestern tip of the state also observe central time to match up with neighboring Illinois and Kentucky, both of which are in the central time zone (Illinois is entirely in the central time zone, as is the western half of Kentucky).  The state has a sordid history with DST but has observed it throughout the state since 2006.