Octavarium VS Systematic Chaos

[chaossystem]

I would be curious to know why you chose those two particular albums to go up against each other.

On some of these songs it's hard to choose, either because it's between two songs I really like, or don't like much at all.

1) Root vs. Presence 1: While Root is one of my all-time favorites, I also love Presence overall. But I guess I have to give it up to Root here, because Presence 1 isn't complete without Presence 2

2) Answer vs. Forsaken: I think the SCORE version of Answer is vastly superior to this one, and I always liked Forsaken in either form, so it's Forsaken

3) Walls vs. Constant: I think Walls is one of DT's better underrated/overlooked songs, but Constant ROCKS! It's Constant by a hair.

4) Walk vs. Dark: This one is too easy. I never liked Walk, and Dark is the first song I ever head from Systematic. I was sold immediately.

5) Panic vs. Repentance: I seem to be one of the few people who actually LIKES Repentance. Panic, on the other hand is somewhat over-rated. I LIKE Panic, but I like Repentance MORE.

6) Never vs. Prophets: I'm tempted to say "who gives a crap" about this one! I never liked Enough, and Prophets is also pretty weak. But my main complaint about prophets is the lyrics. Also the title is very misleading. Not what I first thought the song was going to be about at all. Still I kind of like the little "disco" thing they did at  the beginning, (They've experimented with just about every OTHER kind of music, so why NOT?) and that vocal thing that Portnoy did at the end reminds of that goofy "I'm Too Sexy" song, so I kind of give Prophets my vote here.

7) Sacrificed vs. Ministry: Another No-brainer>I never liked Ministry, (as I've said a thousand times: too depressing) and while Prophets is a BAD example of James's lyrics, this song makes me want to thank him personally as an American for showing so much concern over what happened in and to my country.

8) Octavarium vs. Presence 2: While I agree with many of you that Octavarium is a great piece of music, Presence (1&2 together) has more of a narrative, or cohesive storyline. If I hadn't read somewhere that Octavarium is based on the movies "Awakenings" I doubt if I would have ever known. Presence, on the other hand, is good old-fashioned story about the conflict between good and evil. No explanation necessary. Besides, I don't hear as much of Petrucci on Octavarium. So it's Presence, but not by too wide of a margin.

They're both great albums with a lot of great music on them, but I think have to go with Systematic. But again, not by TOO wide of a margin.

[paulstfu]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 - Jeez... I'd say a tie.

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken - The lyrics are amazing, and the orchestra sounds amazing.

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion - Because Portnoy and the chorus.

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night - A nightmare vs. A sunlight. TDEN wins because complexity and strenght

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance - This was easy. I like the concept of Repenteance but PA is one of my all time DT faves.

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War - I like the Queenish things. BTW, I've just realized the 3 final songs on both albums are SO. INCREDIBLY. SIMILAR 

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls - I don't want to burst my brain, it's a tie.

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2. - 8V all the way!



+ Octavarium Vs In The Presence Of Enemies.

[Kotowboy]

I would be curious to know why you chose those two particular albums to go up against each other.

• They were released back to back.

• They both feature 8 tracks

• They have very similar sequencing ( if you count ITPOE as two tracks ) - even down to the two longest tracks at the end.

• I've always considered Systematic Chaos to be Octavarium's evil twin.

[chaossystem]

"Evil twin..."

That's FUNNY!

But in what WAY???

[425]

The track sequencing on these albums is very similar in several big ways.

- They both start with a high octane rock track that is divided into two parts and lasts 8-9 minutes.
- They both end with the two longest tracks on the album, with the longest of the last. The penultimate track on both follows a soft-heavy-somewhat soft structure, and the last track generally builds up from a soft opening to a climax, that closes the album.
- The third-to-last track on both is an unusual track for DT, both having what has been described as a Muse influence. Honestly, Never Enough and Prophets of War are rather similar songs.

[Kotowboy]

"Evil twin..."

That's FUNNY!

But in what WAY???

I've said it before but i'll repeat it. Octavarium sounds like it was recorded outside in a big open space. It has a big wide production.

Systematic Chaos sounds like it was recorded in a box. It's quite stuffy and in your face sounding.

[Kotowboy]

Tangential : I'd love to know what it would sound like recording an album *outside* with zero reflections at all.

Maybe like in a huge field - just set everything up  - one person in each corner - record everything and listen back.

The wind would probably blow the sound all over the place and you could get something quite unique sounding.

[ytserush]

I feel like I might have done this topic before but hey ho !

Seeing as how each album is 8 tracks and is sorta sequenced the same - more or less. It might be fun to compare them track by track.

I've bolded which track I prefer.


1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1 ( or as a whole against Octavarium if you wish )

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2.



+ Octavarium Vs In The Presence Of Enemies.

Using this style of comparison, the only Systematic Chaos songs that would win for me are Repentance
and Prophets Of War.

[JediKnight1969]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken

3. These Walls VS Constant Motion

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2


I prefer Systematic Chaos as an album.

[CharlesPL]

8V :8
SC:0

[Rickharris1011]

1. Root Of All Evil VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 1(RoAE - One of my favorite "rocker" tracks.  I Like ITPOE, though)

2. The Answer Lies Within VS Forsaken ( Forsaken - I know it's kind of cheesy, but I really like the chorus)
3. These Walls VS Constant Motion  (These Walls - Cool comparison - these walls is one of the simpler DT songs.  Constant Motion is one of the busiest.  In this case simple wins)

4. I Walk Beside You VS The Dark Eternal Night  (Also seem to be polar opposites. Ask me 5 years ago, it's IWBY, but today I like TDEK, even with the cheesy verse vocals better)

5. Panic Attack VS Repentance  (PA - just a fun song.  I used to love playing it in Rock Band.  I like the concept of Repentance, but I really don't like the whole middle section)

6. Never Enough VS . Prophets Of War  (PoW because of the gang vocals.  If you read the liner notes close enough, you'll see these songs were actually both written and performed by Muse Theater)

7. Sacrificed Sons VS The Ministry Of Lost Souls  (SS - it just works better for me )

8. Octavarium VS In The Presence Of Enemies Part 2  (8VM.  I think both represent their albums really well.   IPOE2 perfectly captures the darker,horror movie inspired thread throughout the album)

5/3 8VM. 
Not surprising.  I like 8VM a lot more (though SC has grown on me a bit over the years)

[Architeuthis]

I love both albums. Octavarium was a great soundtrack to 2005, and alot of my friends caught on to DT while listening to that partying in my garage. I havent accomplished that with any other DT album since. Funny thing too, my friends both guys and gals loved singing along to NEVER ENOUGH, while buzzed and having a great time. They loved playing air-keyboards to that part after "what would you say" daa daa dah..lol.  Thats why I can't figure why so many on this forum dont like that song, it freakin rocks as far as I'm concerned. Opening riff is bad-ass, great solos catcy verses and chorus. The meaning to the song can apply to so many situations in life....  Systematic Chaos is darker but insane musicianship!!   Iwas going through a darker time in my life too so it was kind of fitting. Gotta love Dark eternal Night, a song about a monster that wreaks havoc with killer heavy jams. That is soo metal!!!!

[Scorpion]

Since I don't really listen to ITPOE in parts, this is kinda tricky, but just for you Kotowboy, I'll bite.

TROAE vs. ITPOE 1
TALW vs. Forsaken
TW vs. CM
IWBY vs. TDEN
PA vs. Repentance
NE vs. PoW
SS vs. TMOLS [tie]
8V vs. ITPOE 2

Bonus: 8V vs. ITPOE

I don't like Octavarium.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I love both albums. Octavarium was a great soundtrack to 2005, and alot of my friends caught on to DT while listening to that partying in my garage. I havent accomplished that with any other DT album since. Funny thing too, my friends both guys and gals loved singing along to NEVER ENOUGH, while buzzed and having a great time. They loved playing air-keyboards to that part after "what would you say" daa daa dah..lol.  Thats why I can't figure why so many on this forum dont like that song, it freakin rocks as far as I'm concerned. Opening riff is bad-ass, great solos catcy verses and chorus. The meaning to the song can apply to so many situations in life....  Systematic Chaos is darker but insane musicianship!!   Iwas going through a darker time in my life too so it was kind of fitting. Gotta love Dark eternal Night, a song about a monster that wreaks havoc with killer heavy jams. That is soo metal!!!!

I love Never Enough. I always thought the lyrics were great and different. Looking back on them now that Portnoy is gone, they're even better. People complain about the Muse influence but I like Muse and think they did a good job on it. The song has a great atmosphere and flows very nicely. The guitar solo after the guitar/keyboard harmony run is underrated and not JP's usual style. James sounds great on this track and this song has one of their best choruses. Never Enough is definitely in my top 50 (as is the rest of the album except for TALW and IWBY).

[Crow]

I did this in the other thread, let's do it here

TROAE wins all 8 matches vs. SC. (8-0)

TALW vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (6-2)

These Walls vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (6-2)

I Walk Beside You vs. SC:
ItPoE Pt. 1, Forsaken, Constant Motion, Repentance, TMOLS, ItPoE Pt. 2 win (2-6)

Panic Attack vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (6-2)

Never Enough vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (6-2)

Sacrificed Sons vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (6-2)

Octavarium vs. SC:
Repentance, TMOLS win (the latter juuuust barely...) (6-2)

8vm wins 46-18

yup still a landslide victory

[Madman Shepherd]

With these two albums I feel that almost all the songs are equal to each other with a few exception of a few






The Root of All Evil  > In the Presence of Enemies Part 1 (but only if it is the first part...as a whole I would say they are equal)
The Answer Lies Within < Forsaken
These Walls = Constant Motion
I Walk Beside You < The Dark Eternal Night
Panic Attack = Repentance
Never Enough = Prophets of War
Sacrificed Sons = The Ministry of Lost Souls
Octavarium < In the Presence of Enemies Part 2

8V would be equal to ITPOE if it weren't for the clunker Full Circle