Author Topic: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls  (Read 594835 times)

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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10325 on: March 12, 2024, 05:26:19 PM »
Happy birthday to Steve Harris, who turns 68 years old today :birch:

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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10326 on: March 14, 2024, 09:13:32 PM »
Dream Team..love you man, but....


I was thinking of this yesterday. Without Roy Z it's possible Dickinson never goes back to full-on metal mode and the reunion never happens.

Yikes, that's lathering it on Roy Z pretty thick, no?
When and how did Roy Z get Bruce back into full on metal mode? I mean, is this something that Bruce has mentioned?


I distinctly recall an interview with Bruce from back in those days. He was adamantly against making a metal record. He wanted to stay in the Picasso/Skunkworks lane.

Then Roy played him some demos he had for what ended up becoming Accident. Bruce was reluctant, but eventually gave in and said, well, I guess I am making a metal record.

Based on what I know from that time, I would concur that Roy was the catalyst to getting Bruce back into full on metal.
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Offline WardySI

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10327 on: March 14, 2024, 11:47:33 PM »
ProffesorPeart is 100% right.

Bruce covered off on this in a few interviews around that time which I have tucked away but also captured in Dave Ling's write up for the 2005 Accident Of Birth remaster booklet. 

Quoting a few paragraphs by Ling...

(Referring to the aftermath of Skunkworks)... Bruce has publicly stated his belief that nobody wanted to hear from him anymore. 

"It's true" he affirms. "Why try to deny it?  That was the very unpleasant reality of the situation".  Roy Z, guitarist of the band Tribe of Gypsies and a Dickinson collaborator since the Balls To Picasso album, was the catalyst that helped to rouse him from his disappointment.  Z played a few killer riffs down the phone and Bruce knew that it was time to return to what he did best.

"I'll never forget the late-night phone call from Roy Z that got me moving again." reminisces Bruce now.  "I'd been pacing around my living room, with no idea what to do next.  He played me the opening riff to Accident Of Birth and before too long I'd come up with the words and a tune.  I was on a plane to see him in Los Angeles the very next day.  We wrote half the album in five days...".

"It was completely politically incorrect to do a totally balls-out record again" he told me in 1997.  "That had to be a good thing - so I did it."... "It's a heavy metal album absolutely"... 


Ohh and side-note (still quoting Ling here)... Amazingly, given all of the above, the album was even less of a commercial success than Skunkworks.

But yes in 1997 Roy proved to be the missing ingredient and the push at getting Bruce back to metal :metal
« Last Edit: March 14, 2024, 11:59:57 PM by WardySI »

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10328 on: March 15, 2024, 02:30:32 AM »
Can you imagine how much happened in such a short time?

1996 - Bruce feeling probably disillusioned after Skunkworks
1997 - Back to metal (and Adrian) with Accident of Birth
1998 - One of the best heavy metal albums ever, Chemical Wedding
1999 - Reunion with Iron Maiden

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10329 on: March 15, 2024, 03:47:12 AM »
Ok, thank you for clearing that up. but honestly, I just cannot buy that Bruce was not calculated every step of the way. If Roy Z helped Bruce decide to make a ..."metal"...record, then fine. He was a good collaborator for Bruce, but I have a hard time accepting that the Reunion was because of it. Again, maybe I'm wrong.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline WardySI

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10330 on: March 15, 2024, 04:14:28 AM »
Yeah look those quotes I posted were pretty much in context regards what was being thrown about the press from what I remember?

And given Skunkworks was a deliberate attempt to distance himself further from Maiden than even Balls To Picasso, I really do believe Bruce was a little lost regards what to do next after Skunkworks failed to take hold (sidenote I loved it!).

But sure you are probably right to some degree am sure going back to a more metal approach was already a consideration.  Hard to imagine how it couldn't have been.  But regardless, from what Bruce was saying then and since, Roy coming back really does seem to have been the turning point.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10331 on: March 15, 2024, 04:33:27 AM »
Yeah look those quotes I posted were pretty much in context regards what was being thrown about the press from what I remember?

And given Skunkworks was a deliberate attempt to distance himself further from Maiden than even Balls To Picasso, I really do believe Bruce was a little lost regards what to do next after Skunkworks failed to take hold (sidenote I loved it!).

But sure you are probably right to some degree am sure going back to a more metal approach was already a consideration.  Hard to imagine how it couldn't have been.  But regardless, from what Bruce was saying then and since, Roy coming back really does seem to have been the turning point.


I think Bruce not being on a big stage was the turning point. Being artistic is great and all, but Bruce was following the money.  I mean, that's great about the direction they went in with AOB, but it was still the same band as BTP. I think he found a partner, and we can give him some credit for helping Bruce with a direction for AOB, fine, but I'm not extrapolating that to the Reunion because that was always going to happen because it was the only thing that made $ense for both sides.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline WardySI

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10332 on: March 15, 2024, 06:46:46 AM »
Yep can't argue with that either.


Offline Stadler

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10333 on: March 15, 2024, 07:03:06 AM »
Ok, thank you for clearing that up. but honestly, I just cannot buy that Bruce was not calculated every step of the way. If Roy Z helped Bruce decide to make a ..."metal"...record, then fine. He was a good collaborator for Bruce, but I have a hard time accepting that the Reunion was because of it. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

I'm kind of with you; Bruce likes to send the message that he's flying by the seat of his pants, but... I don't buy that.   I'm not going to go back and quote, but it was a similar story around "Balls...".  There weren't THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS because Bruce was simply following his muse... 

I also agree with TAC on the reunion; the "music" is only part of it.   He was not able to do the theatrical aspect of the shows in a club like Toad's Place.  It's not a coincidence that upon his return Bruce is almost co-captain with Harris and is largely responsible for the theatrical aspect of the band.

Offline Glasser

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10334 on: March 15, 2024, 11:30:43 AM »
Ok, thank you for clearing that up. but honestly, I just cannot buy that Bruce was not calculated every step of the way. If Roy Z helped Bruce decide to make a ..."metal"...record, then fine. He was a good collaborator for Bruce, but I have a hard time accepting that the Reunion was because of it. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

I'm kind of with you; Bruce likes to send the message that he's flying by the seat of his pants, but... I don't buy that.   I'm not going to go back and quote, but it was a similar story around "Balls...".  There weren't THREE DIFFERENT VERSIONS because Bruce was simply following his muse... 

I also agree with TAC on the reunion; the "music" is only part of it.   He was not able to do the theatrical aspect of the shows in a club like Toad's Place.  It's not a coincidence that upon his return Bruce is almost co-captain with Harris and is largely responsible for the theatrical aspect of the band.

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Offline nobloodyname

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10335 on: March 15, 2024, 11:44:00 AM »
Yeah look those quotes I posted were pretty much in context regards what was being thrown about the press from what I remember?

And given Skunkworks was a deliberate attempt to distance himself further from Maiden than even Balls To Picasso, I really do believe Bruce was a little lost regards what to do next after Skunkworks failed to take hold (sidenote I loved it!).

But sure you are probably right to some degree am sure going back to a more metal approach was already a consideration.  Hard to imagine how it couldn't have been.  But regardless, from what Bruce was saying then and since, Roy coming back really does seem to have been the turning point.


I think Bruce not being on a big stage was the turning point. Being artistic is great and all, but Bruce was following the money.  I mean, that's great about the direction they went in with AOB, but it was still the same band as BTP. I think he found a partner, and we can give him some credit for helping Bruce with a direction for AOB, fine, but I'm not extrapolating that to the Reunion because that was always going to happen because it was the only thing that made $ense for both sides.

To quote Steve Harris: "Bruce would make a country & western album if he thought it would sell".
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10336 on: March 15, 2024, 06:18:26 PM »
Thanks for the added info. Also remember, if no Bruce back in Maiden then no Adrian back. Yikes.

Offline Zantera

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10337 on: March 16, 2024, 12:51:24 AM »
I love Skunkworks (my second favorite of his) and I think the timing of it is interesting in multiple ways. The 90s kinda saw the death of 80s metal and a lot of bands were either becoming weaker versions of what they were before (like Maiden with Blaze, no offense!) or they had completely changed directions and were doing something different (Metallica for example). The big alternative rock scene as well as grunge was the new wave of exciting rock music coming out and I think Skunkworks definitely tips its hat to a bunch of 90s bands, for me I get a lot of Smashing Pumpkins and Soundgarden from it. However you look at those 90s bands and where they were in 96 and that wave of new rock music was almost dying out in a way as well. Nirvana had died with Kurt Cobain, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains were both sort of reaching their end (a long hiatus), Pearl Jam had kinda changed their sound around and Smashing Pumpkins were about to leave a lot of their rock roots behind to explore a more electronic sound on Adore a few years later.

So Skunkworks, as much as I love it (i'm a 90s kid after all) almost feels a bit like someone arriving late to the party. Bruce makes this album and it felt like the general reception was "Come on keep up dad, we're already past that point and onto the next thing". Going back to what worked before, in this case a more traditional heavy metal sound might seem like the easy way out but it really does feel like that sound was dead at the time and Maiden weren't really hitting homeruns either so it feels like Bruce kinda revived it with Accident and Chemical Wedding.

I remember in his early solo career it felt like a big thing to distance himself from Maiden. He wanted to make his solo stuff be the center of attention and to my knowledge he didn't really bring out the Maiden classics to carry his solo shows. (Correct me if I'm wrong) But I know he brought out The Prisoner on the Skunkworks tour and that felt like a tiny spark to get him back in that mindset. On the Accident tour he played multiple Maiden songs - 2 Minutes to Midnight, Powerslave, Flight of Icarus and Run to the Hills (maybe one or two more I'm missing) and some of these he would keep playing during the Chemical Wedding tour. So even before he rejoined Maiden it felt like there was a build up to that happening.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10338 on: March 18, 2024, 07:14:14 AM »

So Skunkworks, as much as I love it (i'm a 90s kid after all) almost feels a bit like someone arriving late to the party. Bruce makes this album and it felt like the general reception was "Come on keep up dad, we're already past that point and onto the next thing".

I don't know if that's EXACTLY right, but it's certainly the right idea.  The whole concept of that grunge era was taking what came before - grunge is VERY heavily rooted in the sort of 80's rock that became a sort of joke - and stripping it of all the things that made it "excessive". It wasn't very long until people realized that musically there wasn't a ton of difference between Pearl Jam musically and it's progenitors (The Who, UFO/Kiss, The Doors).   There wasn't a ton of difference between Soundgarden and it's progenitors (Sabbath, The Stones, The Melvins).  It was more attitude than anything to do with the music; and I think it's not a coincidence that NONE of the "grunge" era records from established acts - Slang, Carnival of Souls, etc., there are others - really made any firm impact, and none of them really signaled any sustainable departure from those bands' established courses. 

Bruce fell into that.  I really like Skunkworks (contrast:  I haven't listened to Slang or CoS in years and have zero desire to do so any time soon).  I don't look at it the same way as many of you do; I don't look at Skunkworks as some huge departure or a "grunge" album or anything like that; it's just another record from a singer I like, and when I listen to it I get pleasure (I'm not as sold on the two "biggies" - AoB and TCW - as most people are; neither of those are necessarily my favorite Bruce solo albums).  I don't think that record would have gotten traction if it was Sgt. Pepper's Number of the Lightning Puppets.   It didn't have what the music industry was looking for at that time and that was fresh, new, young, attitude. 

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10339 on: March 18, 2024, 02:58:34 PM »
I've not been back the TMP project much. Priest and Everything Everything have taken most of my attention. If the production on TMP was great then I probably would have listened more but I think it's going to end up as another ok Bruce record that I almost never play. Nothing seriously wrong with it but isn't Delivering The Goods for me, truth be told.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10340 on: March 18, 2024, 06:57:22 PM »
I've not been back the TMP project much. Priest and Everything Everything have taken most of my attention. If the production on TMP was great then I probably would have listened more but I think it's going to end up as another ok Bruce record that I almost never play. Nothing seriously wrong with it but isn't Delivering The Goods for me, truth be told.

After my initial excitement, I've cooled significantly on Bruce's latest. I'll keep it in rotation for a time, but not as blown away as I thought I'd be.


I'm in the same boat.  There's 2-3, maybe 4 songs on the record that I really like.  But I've also cooled on this one.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10341 on: March 18, 2024, 07:02:32 PM »
So, I think this is gonna be a grower, and once we realize and accept that it's not (whatever album/fill in the blank), we'll be able to sit back and enjoy it. After leaving it alone for a week or so, I played it at work the other day, and it was actually a really nice listen.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10342 on: March 18, 2024, 07:03:55 PM »
I love the album personally. It has a really high replay value for me.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10343 on: March 18, 2024, 08:17:39 PM »
I haven't had any urge to go back to it at all truthfully but I might tomorrow in between roulette rounds tomorrow.  I'm sure it will age fine and I think I'll enjoy it more going back into it after a couple of weeks.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10344 on: March 19, 2024, 08:55:04 AM »

So Skunkworks, as much as I love it (i'm a 90s kid after all) almost feels a bit like someone arriving late to the party. Bruce makes this album and it felt like the general reception was "Come on keep up dad, we're already past that point and onto the next thing".

I don't know if that's EXACTLY right, but it's certainly the right idea.  The whole concept of that grunge era was taking what came before - grunge is VERY heavily rooted in the sort of 80's rock that became a sort of joke - and stripping it of all the things that made it "excessive". It wasn't very long until people realized that musically there wasn't a ton of difference between Pearl Jam musically and it's progenitors (The Who, UFO/Kiss, The Doors).   There wasn't a ton of difference between Soundgarden and it's progenitors (Sabbath, The Stones, The Melvins).  It was more attitude than anything to do with the music; and I think it's not a coincidence that NONE of the "grunge" era records from established acts - Slang, Carnival of Souls, etc., there are others - really made any firm impact, and none of them really signaled any sustainable departure from those bands' established courses. 

Bruce fell into that.  I really like Skunkworks (contrast:  I haven't listened to Slang or CoS in years and have zero desire to do so any time soon).  I don't look at it the same way as many of you do; I don't look at Skunkworks as some huge departure or a "grunge" album or anything like that; it's just another record from a singer I like, and when I listen to it I get pleasure (I'm not as sold on the two "biggies" - AoB and TCW - as most people are; neither of those are necessarily my favorite Bruce solo albums).  I don't think that record would have gotten traction if it was Sgt. Pepper's Number of the Lightning Puppets.   It didn't have what the music industry was looking for at that time and that was fresh, new, young, attitude.

Ah, Skunkworks. Back when the world was young, it was just a couple of years since I discovered foreign rock music (thank you Bon Jovi with Always) and I eventually became a metalhead in 1995. Iron Maiden quickly became my favorite band and Bruce my favorite singer, and so the new albums from both parties since I became a fan were The X Factor and eventually Skunkworks.

Also in that time frame Load came out, not that it has anything to do with Bruce but imagine the situation: young fan, musical tastes still developing, a sort of "musical ignorance" 'cause I barely understood the difference between the genres, so the fact that grunge was a thing, what was "classic metal" and what not, and how Skunkworks could be labelled just fly over my head.

Bruce solo and "out of metal" so to speak was small enough to appear on random italian TV afternoon shows, back when MTV and musical programs were still a thing, and I taped the acoustic showcase and interview on a VHS; I still remember he performed (along with guitarist Alex  Dickson) Inertia, Re-Entry (great b-side) and Tears of the Dragon.

It was a new album from my favorite singer, I liked it anyway and I still do. Yeah, anything that came after was better, but Skunkworks has still a soft spot in my heart 'cause it came when my musical world was still virgin and there to explore, and whatever song I'll hear live (if any) will be gladly welcomed.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10345 on: March 19, 2024, 01:29:46 PM »
The fact that you developed good musical taste despite coming into it during that time period is very impressive  :tup. That period was the literal dearth when it comes to good music by legacy bands.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10346 on: March 19, 2024, 01:40:53 PM »
Foreign rock music=Bon Jovi  :lol

I laughed when I read this.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10347 on: March 19, 2024, 01:56:01 PM »
Hey, that's how I started  :lol I wasn't completely oblivious to rock, but I mainly listened to whatever the radio was passing (I was a young teen after all, in the pre internet days), my first exposure to the fact that there was music that was not italian and that was somehow "heavy", or heavier than the stuff the radio was passing, was Bon Jovi, and then Guns n' Roses.

Then the next step after dipping my feet with rock n' roll was Iron Maiden...... and here I am in my 40s a metalhead to this day  :metal

And yeah, as Dream Team pointed out, imagine becoming a metalhead, still figuring out what the genre is all about, and Iron Maiden release The X Factor, Metallica release Load and Bruce releases Skunkworks, with the power metal resurgence still a couple of years away. It was some weird formative years for sure  :lol
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10348 on: March 21, 2024, 07:03:11 AM »
I'm in the habit of doing setlist-like compilations for my round trip to work, which lasts 90 minutes or slightly more, so here's my imaginary "Bruce concert", in reality if the playing time is 95 minutes it would go past the 2 hours I guess and such a long setlist is a bit overkill, but hey, it's all in my head, so he doesn't have to play 20 songs, doesn't he?  :biggrin:

Anyway, here's what I came up, you're all invited to my imaginary show:

Eternity has Failed straight into
Afterglow of Ragnarok
Accident of Birth straight into
King in Crimson
Many Doors to Hell
Soul Intruders
Face in the Mirror
Kill Devil Hill
Rain on the Graves
Starchildren
Shadow of the Gods
The Tower
Resurrection Men
Innerspace
Tyranny of Souls
Tears of the Dragon
Road to Hell
=============== encore
Mars Within /
Abduction
Chemical Wedding
Silver Wings
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10349 on: March 21, 2024, 07:33:17 AM »
^^^ I'd go see that. 

Offline Mladen

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10350 on: March 21, 2024, 07:39:22 AM »
I would be absolutely thrilled to see that show. Kudos for including The Tower, that one is a must in my opinion. So is Shadow of the Gods, when it comes to the new tracks.

Offline cramx3

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10351 on: March 21, 2024, 08:09:58 AM »
I'd love if Bruce announced some dates near me.  That set would be killer, but it's honestly too good that it'll never happen  :lol

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10352 on: March 21, 2024, 08:26:06 AM »
I'd love if Bruce announced some dates near me.  That set would be killer, but it's honestly too good that it'll never happen  :lol

Where do you think he'll play?   Irving Plaza? 

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10353 on: March 21, 2024, 08:29:09 AM »
I'd love if Bruce announced some dates near me.  That set would be killer, but it's honestly too good that it'll never happen  :lol

Where do you think he'll play?   Irving Plaza?

Nah, too small.  I'd say for NYC, Hammerstein Ballroom, Terminal 5, or Beacon Theater are more likely. I havent checked his current dates, to see if they are GA or theater type venues.  But 1k capacity in NYC is not big enough for Bruce.  3-5k IMO seems more likely to me.

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10354 on: March 21, 2024, 10:10:02 AM »
^^^ I'd go see that.

Nah. It's completely invalidated due to the absence of Darkside of Aquarius :biggrin:
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10355 on: March 21, 2024, 11:33:20 AM »
I'd love if Bruce announced some dates near me.  That set would be killer, but it's honestly too good that it'll never happen  :lol

Where do you think he'll play?   Irving Plaza?

He's doing one show in the Observatory in Santa Ana (500 people capacity) and the re-sale prices on the secondary markets is around $175.00.  He could have filled either the House of Blues in Anaheim or the Hollywood Palladium if the resale price for a small venue show is around $175.00.  No joke, if it's under $100.00, I may actually get that ticket and go to the show.

Offline cramx3

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10356 on: March 21, 2024, 11:34:41 AM »
^^^ I'd go see that.

Nah. It's completely invalidated due to the absence of Darkside of Aquarius :biggrin:

Yeah, a noticeable absence.  I think Bruce actually stated Skunkworks songs won't be played, so slot that in instead of Innerspace.

I'd love if Bruce announced some dates near me.  That set would be killer, but it's honestly too good that it'll never happen  :lol

Where do you think he'll play?   Irving Plaza?

He's doing one show in the Observatory in Santa Ana (500 people capacity) and the re-sale prices on the secondary markets is around $175.00.  He could have filled either the House of Blues in Anaheim or the Hollywood Palladium  if the resale price for a small venue show is around $175.00.  No joke, if it's under $100.00, I may actually get that ticket and go to the show.

I believe that was advertised as a one off warm up gig.  Which also makes sense to have a smaller capacity.  I'd love to be there.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10357 on: March 21, 2024, 12:51:47 PM »
^^^ I'd go see that.

Nah. It's completely invalidated due to the absence of Darkside of Aquarius :biggrin:

That was the very first song I would have picked if I had room for one more  :D
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10358 on: March 21, 2024, 12:54:34 PM »
^^^ I'd go see that.

Nah. It's completely invalidated due to the absence of Darkside of Aquarius :biggrin:

That was the very first song I would have picked if I had room for one more  :D


Yeah, a noticeable absence.  I think Bruce actually stated Skunkworks songs won't be played, so slot that in instead of Innerspace.

Actually in a recent interview I've seen on YouTube he said that guys in the band are fans of the album so he said talking about the setlist "well, I said that I wasn't going to play Skunkworks songs at first, but now I'm not so sure!"

And for the "well, d'uh" segment of the setlist talked, he said there will be songs from Chemical Wedding, Accident of Birth, and at least one from Balls to Picasso named by name, take a wild guess which one.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #10359 on: March 25, 2024, 09:31:47 AM »
The Hu are opening the US tour. WTF??
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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