The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Deadeye21]

Bruce has nailed Futureal on the Ed Hunter stour, so I’d be keen to see that come back. Maybe after Senjutsu if they’re still a while away from calling it quits, they could do a 90s history tour for a change. Not that that will happen but we I’d be in for it. I remember it was nice rumoured as a Japan and Australia exclusive after Maiden England before Book of Souls. Didn’t happen, but I hope it does someday.

[wolfking]

Bruce has nailed Futureal on the Ed Hunter stour, so I’d be keen to see that come back. Maybe after Senjutsu if they’re still a while away from calling it quits, they could do a 90s history tour for a change. Not that that will happen but we I’d be in for it. I remember it was nice rumoured as a Japan and Australia exclusive after Maiden England before Book of Souls. Didn’t happen, but I hope it does someday.

Huh, that's the first I've heard of that.

[wolfking]

I think if Maiden had been open to tuning down, Blaze would’ve done a lot better. Seeing as though they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

They did?  To be fair, I've never paid attention to Bruces version.  I didn't think Maiden ever did this.

They would have just played it in a different key instead of detuning.  The original from memory is in F# I think.  Maybe they just dropped it to E?  I'm not at home so I can't confirm.

I've always said they should have played in E flat live for Blaze, but I don't think Steve would have a bar of it so I'm shocked they did this for LOTF.

Can now confirm this.

[Dream Team]

So in this thread I just learned that David Lee Roth was not a good singer. LOL

[The Curious Orange]

... they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

Tells me that Bruce has more say in the band than Blaze had. It's well known that one of Bruce's demands for returning was that he had a greater say.

[Stadler]

I think if Maiden had been open to tuning down, Blaze would’ve done a lot better. Seeing as though they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

They did?  To be fair, I've never paid attention to Bruces version.  I didn't think Maiden ever did this.

They would have just played it in a different key instead of detuning.  The original from memory is in F# I think.  Maybe they just dropped it to E?  I'm not at home so I can't confirm.

I've always said they should have played in E flat live for Blaze, but I don't think Steve would have a bar of it so I'm shocked they did this for LOTF.

Not like I can assign you homework or anything, but can you weigh in on this?  I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but it's a fairly bold statement given that Harris has taken so much criticism for "never" doing it.  I think even Bruce made comments to that effect at one point.

In any event, I agree with Samsara (except for the knocks on Ozzy and especially David Lee Roth.  Neither man's voice really held up over the years, and there have always been sort of rumors that Roth sings everything one line at a time in the studio, since he can't string together a complete song in one go, but I think he's got some really good vocal parts in the VH catalogue.  Same with Ozzy.  As good as Dio and Ozzy are, neither one could really do justice to their predecessors material, IMO.)

[nobloodyname]

Lovely new interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt3lG1TuKYQ

Iron Maiden discussion from around the 21 minute mark. Couple of titbits I never knew about regarding material that ended up on Silicon Messiah.

[wolfking]

I think if Maiden had been open to tuning down, Blaze would’ve done a lot better. Seeing as though they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

They did?  To be fair, I've never paid attention to Bruces version.  I didn't think Maiden ever did this.

They would have just played it in a different key instead of detuning.  The original from memory is in F# I think.  Maybe they just dropped it to E?  I'm not at home so I can't confirm.

I've always said they should have played in E flat live for Blaze, but I don't think Steve would have a bar of it so I'm shocked they did this for LOTF.

Not like I can assign you homework or anything, but can you weigh in on this?  I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but it's a fairly bold statement given that Harris has taken so much criticism for "never" doing it.  I think even Bruce made comments to that effect at one point.

In any event, I agree with Samsara (except for the knocks on Ozzy and especially David Lee Roth.  Neither man's voice really held up over the years, and there have always been sort of rumors that Roth sings everything one line at a time in the studio, since he can't string together a complete song in one go, but I think he's got some really good vocal parts in the VH catalogue.  Same with Ozzy.  As good as Dio and Ozzy are, neither one could really do justice to their predecessors material, IMO.)

Weigh in on what?

[wolfking]

... they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

Tells me that Bruce has more say in the band than Blaze had. It's well known that one of Bruce's demands for returning was that he had a greater say.

Tuning to Eb these days wouldn't hurt Bruce either just quietly.

[Stadler]

I think if Maiden had been open to tuning down, Blaze would’ve done a lot better. Seeing as though they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

They did?  To be fair, I've never paid attention to Bruces version.  I didn't think Maiden ever did this.

They would have just played it in a different key instead of detuning.  The original from memory is in F# I think.  Maybe they just dropped it to E?  I'm not at home so I can't confirm.

I've always said they should have played in E flat live for Blaze, but I don't think Steve would have a bar of it so I'm shocked they did this for LOTF.

Not like I can assign you homework or anything, but can you weigh in on this?  I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but it's a fairly bold statement given that Harris has taken so much criticism for "never" doing it.  I think even Bruce made comments to that effect at one point.

In any event, I agree with Samsara (except for the knocks on Ozzy and especially David Lee Roth.  Neither man's voice really held up over the years, and there have always been sort of rumors that Roth sings everything one line at a time in the studio, since he can't string together a complete song in one go, but I think he's got some really good vocal parts in the VH catalogue.  Same with Ozzy.  As good as Dio and Ozzy are, neither one could really do justice to their predecessors material, IMO.)

Weigh in on what?

Whether they dropped the key of TLOTF for Bruce.

EDIT:  Forget it; I just saw your post.  So did they detune a half step, or change the key entirely?

[Stadler]

... they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

Tells me that Bruce has more say in the band than Blaze had. It's well known that one of Bruce's demands for returning was that he had a greater say.

I don't know if he has THAT kind of say, but he does have a lot of pull in the band at this point.  It's my understanding that he's got carte blanche for the stage show aspect.  I always thought Steve kept the reigns on the studio work and the live MUSIC aspect, but I'm pretty sure Bruce choreographed the whole Legacy of the Beast show.

[TAC]

  It's my understanding that he's got carte blanche for the stage show aspect.  I always thought Steve kept the reigns on the studio work and the live MUSIC aspect, but I'm pretty sure Bruce choreographed the whole Legacy of the Beast show.

Stads, don't take this as I'm doubting you at all, because I am not, but I would love to see any reference to this somewhere. I actually find this very interesting and would love to hear more about it.

And seriously, other than the TFF stage, from (and including) Dance Of Death on, their stage shows are fucking amazing.

[Stadler]

  It's my understanding that he's got carte blanche for the stage show aspect.  I always thought Steve kept the reigns on the studio work and the live MUSIC aspect, but I'm pretty sure Bruce choreographed the whole Legacy of the Beast show.

Stads, don't take this as I'm doubting you at all, because I am not, but I would love to see any reference to this somewhere. I actually find this very interesting and would love to hear more about it.

And seriously, other than the TFF stage, from (and including) Dance Of Death on, their stage shows are fucking amazing.

I don't take it that way at all; I'll look to see if I can find some sources.

[MirrorMask]

For what it's worth, from reading interviews here and there I was too under the impression that the Legacy of the Beast tour is Bruce's idea, from the setlist to the stage set.

[TAC]

Whoever is responsible for the stage presentation is a fucking genius. It's like a Broadway show at a rock concert. And they make it all work.

For what it's worth, from reading interviews here and there I was too under the impression that the Legacy of the Beast tour is Bruce's idea, from the setlist to the stage set.

Awesome! Thanks Andrea!

[WardySI]

Lovely new interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt3lG1TuKYQ

Iron Maiden discussion from around the 21 minute mark. Couple of titbits I never knew about regarding material that ended up on Silicon Messiah.

Very cool interview cheers.

War Within Me is an incredible album, fantastic songs and back to excellent production and fantastic artwork. Had it at #2 and just behind Senjutsu in my 2021 year end rankings but tbh could've gone either way but will probably end up up my second favorite of his solo catalogue behind Silicon Messiah but ahead of Tenth Dimension before too long \m/

[Samsara]

Tim - the reason you can't hear it when a band downtunes is because you're an old fogey with bad ears after all those shows in the 80s my friend. LOL. I don't know how to explain it, other than by just hearing it. I'm an...okay singer, and I can absolutely hear when things are either downtuned or in a different key. I just listen to where my voice goes, and I can tell based on the original album. I am sure some of the more polished singers and the great musicians on here can tell you more.

re: DLR and Ozzy come on folks. I'm not saying I dislike their vocal performances. Obviously, I love some Sabbath/Ozzy solo and I love early VH. But Ozzy and DLR aren't blowing anyone away with their range and vocal control. In their prime, they were average, at best. Doesn't meant they weren't great for their respective bands at the time. But if you put Dio next to Ozzy, and Sammy next to DLR, there's no way on God's green Earth you could convince ANYONE that Sammy and Dio don't blow those two away in all aspects of pure SINGING. 

Anyway, again, much respect for Blaze. I have yet to see him live. I am hoping that at some point, he'll be able to play a few shows on the West Coast.

[Mladen]

I saw him three times and he knocked it out of the park every single time. He once performed an acoustic gig and the entire place was trembling, his voice was enough to fill the room. I also enjoyed how, both times when he came back with the full band, the majority of the set list featured his solo songs, which absolutely should be the case.

[TAC]

Tim - the reason you can't hear it when a band downtunes is because you're an old fogey with bad ears after all those shows in the 80s my friend. LOL. I don't know how to explain it, other than by just hearing it.

Hah.. truth, brother!

[Stadler]

re: DLR and Ozzy come on folks. I'm not saying I dislike their vocal performances. Obviously, I love some Sabbath/Ozzy solo and I love early VH. But Ozzy and DLR aren't blowing anyone away with their range and vocal control. In their prime, they were average, at best. Doesn't meant they weren't great for their respective bands at the time. But if you put Dio next to Ozzy, and Sammy next to DLR, there's no way on God's green Earth you could convince ANYONE that Sammy and Dio don't blow those two away in all aspects of pure SINGING. 

I just think it's more complicated than that.  Dave, technically, has a five octave range.  Can he scream like Sammy for two hours a night?  Nope.  But he's got a broad palate of sounds to choose from and if that's your thing as a singer, then that's your thing. I sang in bands as well (though not in a while) and I'd rather sing Sammy than Dave.  Ozzy less so, but his problem is more his nasally tone than an inability to sing.  In his prime, he held notes and had a fairly reasonable range for a singer.

In both cases, the one distinguishing feature is, Sammy and Ronny both took care of their voices and had little drop off as they got older.  You can distinguish between the 20's Ozzy/Dave and the 50's Ozzy/Dave even with TAC's ears. 

[TAC]

Haha, I can vouch for that. 

[TAC]

Silicon Messiah is not one of my go to Blaze albums. Those would be Promise & Terror and The Man Who Would Not Die. But I busted it out for the first time in a long time.
I can definitely see Maiden playing parts of this.

Also, is it me or does the beginning of The Launch sound like the beginning of Kill The King from On Stage?

[wolfking]

I think if Maiden had been open to tuning down, Blaze would’ve done a lot better. Seeing as though they lowered the key of Lord of the Flies for Bruce on Death in the Road though, what does that tell you?

They did?  To be fair, I've never paid attention to Bruces version.  I didn't think Maiden ever did this.

They would have just played it in a different key instead of detuning.  The original from memory is in F# I think.  Maybe they just dropped it to E?  I'm not at home so I can't confirm.

I've always said they should have played in E flat live for Blaze, but I don't think Steve would have a bar of it so I'm shocked they did this for LOTF.

Not like I can assign you homework or anything, but can you weigh in on this?  I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but it's a fairly bold statement given that Harris has taken so much criticism for "never" doing it.  I think even Bruce made comments to that effect at one point.

In any event, I agree with Samsara (except for the knocks on Ozzy and especially David Lee Roth.  Neither man's voice really held up over the years, and there have always been sort of rumors that Roth sings everything one line at a time in the studio, since he can't string together a complete song in one go, but I think he's got some really good vocal parts in the VH catalogue.  Same with Ozzy.  As good as Dio and Ozzy are, neither one could really do justice to their predecessors material, IMO.)

Weigh in on what?

Whether they dropped the key of TLOTF for Bruce.

EDIT:  Forget it; I just saw your post.  So did they detune a half step, or change the key entirely?

It's down a whole step for Bruce, so the band didn't detune, they just transposed it and played it in their go to key of E for Bruce.  Again, I never picked up on this and I think this maybe the only time they have ever changed a key.

[425]

That might explain part of why I don't love that version. I cited that I don't think the song is great for Bruce's voice and that the tempo is faster, both of which I think are true and part of it, but I also definitely feel like something is a little different about it that I don't love and that is hard to attribute to either of those factors.

[WardySI]

Silicon Messiah is not one of my go to Blaze albums. Those would be Promise & Terror and The Man Who Would Not Die. But I busted it out for the first time in a long time.
I can definitely see Maiden playing parts of this.

Also, is it me or does the beginning of The Launch sound like the beginning of Kill The King from On Stage?

For all my love of Silicon and Tenth etc I can't argue with this, both The Man and Promise And Terror were fantastic and speak volumes of the man's tenacity after being unceremoniously kicked from Maiden (no doubt made all the more difficult to swallow while enthusiastically working towards the next Maiden record), failing to launch ( ) a solo career (always wondered why he was never offered a support slot for a Maiden tour about that time!?), not just once but twice!  And of course the sad loss of his partner and ending up financially ruined all about that time...

Yeah, lots of love and respect for The Man Who Would Not and Promise, lots of life reflection in both (the finale of Promise And Terror is particularly outstanding in this aspect) yet class metal albums too boot!

Love his stuff or not, gotta hand it to the man to finally be going so strong after all that (and I might add releasing what is arguably one of the finest records of his career in 2021) is quite something \m/

[Dream Team]

Hey how about that great solo work of Bruce Dickinson?

[wolfking]

The Man Who Would Not Die has always been my fav album.  Something about it.

[WardySI]

Hey how about that great solo work of Bruce Dickinson?

Now don't get me started on that 

That stuff's elite!

[425]

I bought Promise and Terror last year but got distracted with other styles of music and didn't listen to it. Listening for the first time now, and yeah, this is really good stuff. Strong songs and Blaze sounds great.

[wolfking]

I bought Promise and Terror last year but got distracted with other styles of music and didn't listen to it. Listening for the first time now, and yeah, this is really good stuff. Strong songs and Blaze sounds great.

This one took a long time to grow for me, but it's nice and heavy.

[nobloodyname]

For me, you can't beat Silicon Messiah and The Tenth Dimension although I think the only weak album in his catalogue is The King of Metal. Last album wasn't bad at all, nor was the William Black trilogy. Although I thought the over the top operatic style was hilarious at first

[wolfking]

Blood and Belief is criminally underrated.

[nobloodyname]

Blood and Belief is criminally underrated.

You're probably right. I'm just listening to it now, funnily enough. It's far more similar stylistically and sonically to the first two albums than I remember.

[wolfking]

Blood and Belief is criminally underrated.

You're probably right. I'm just listening to it now, funnily enough. It's far more similar stylistically and sonically to the first two albums than I remember.

Its like the third part of the trilogy.  The title track might be my favourite Blaze track.

[cramx3]

Blood and Belief is criminally underrated.

You're probably right. I'm just listening to it now, funnily enough. It's far more similar stylistically and sonically to the first two albums than I remember.

Its like the third part of the trilogy.  The title track might be my favourite Blaze track.

Yea, those first three Blaze albums may be his best.  I don't know, but they are like classics for Blaze.  Obviously he still makes great music, but I hold those three more highly.