Author Topic: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls  (Read 573402 times)

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8890 on: June 19, 2022, 03:43:28 PM »
I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.
Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.


Is that different than the swivel?

Is this like The Twist?


Kingshmegland says yes.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8891 on: June 19, 2022, 03:58:57 PM »
Question:  Wasn't Nicko like the only drummer to basically refuse to use a double bass?    I thought that was part of his schtick.

Back in 1986 or '87, I went to a Vinnie Appice drum clinic at a local Guitar Center.  He spoke at length about not using double bass drum.  I don't recall him discussing the double pedal and don't know if those were even common at that time.  I also have no idea if he changed his position over the years.
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Offline Glasser

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8892 on: June 19, 2022, 04:09:18 PM »
I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.
Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.


Is that different than the swivel?

Is this like The Twist?

More like the Macarena.   :lol

Offline King Puppies and the Acid Guppies

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8893 on: June 19, 2022, 04:45:54 PM »
I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.
Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.


Is that different than the swivel?
While they can both provide similar results, the execution is quite different. For example, George Kollias is notable for making the swivel technique popular and can attain pretty good double bass speeds with it. There's another drummer that I follow, Samus Paulicelli, who uses the heel-toe technique.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8894 on: June 19, 2022, 05:37:44 PM »
I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.
Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.


Is that different than the swivel?
While they can both provide similar results, the execution is quite different. For example, George Kollias is notable for making the swivel technique popular and can attain pretty good double bass speeds with it. There's another drummer that I follow, Samus Paulicelli, who uses the heel-toe technique.

66Samus. I've watched him.

I watched a couple different vids on the heel toe. I'm gonna try it out tomorrow.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8895 on: June 19, 2022, 07:11:40 PM »
No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

I strongly disagree. Wickerman, Brave New World, Blood Brothers, Mercenary, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, No More Lies, Monstsegur, Longest Day, FTGGOG etc have choruses that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and I don’t think every note would have been worshipped. Early Maiden had all that useless fat stripped away.

Offline The Realm

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8896 on: June 19, 2022, 07:19:51 PM »
No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

I strongly disagree. Wickerman, Brave New World, Blood Brothers, Mercenary, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, No More Lies, Monstsegur, Longest Day, FTGGOG etc have choruses that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and I don’t think every note would have been worshipped. Early Maiden had all that useless fat stripped away.

Yes, I pretty much agree with this. In the countdown thread it has been stated that someone prefers the more epic, progressive Maiden (referring to the reunion era) than an album like TNoTB. I guess where I sit you can't get a Maiden track more epic and progressive than Children of the Dammed (complete with repeated chorus lyrics) and the song is 4 and a half minutes long. So many of the reunion songs are just too long without earning their excessive length.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8897 on: June 19, 2022, 07:24:19 PM »
No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

I strongly disagree. Wickerman, Brave New World, Blood Brothers, Mercenary, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, No More Lies, Monstsegur, Longest Day, FTGGOG etc have choruses that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and I don’t think every note would have been worshipped. Early Maiden had all that useless fat stripped away.

I don't know man. You listed a handful of great tacks included in that list that are perfect the way they are. The Reunion Era is amazing, and it's a matter of taste I guess, but sometimes I feel like we romanticize the Classic Era a bit too much in comparison.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Deadeye21

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8898 on: June 19, 2022, 07:35:21 PM »
Am I the only one who hates the single version of Out of the Silent Planet for cutting out the super moody intro? I love that bit.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8899 on: June 19, 2022, 09:03:07 PM »
No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

I strongly disagree. Wickerman, Brave New World, Blood Brothers, Mercenary, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, No More Lies, Monstsegur, Longest Day, FTGGOG etc have choruses that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and I don’t think every note would have been worshipped. Early Maiden had all that useless fat stripped away.

I agree about old Maiden but I do think I would have been in awe if the reunion stuff came out when I was a kid in the 80's. No doubt about it.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8900 on: June 19, 2022, 09:07:32 PM »
I think what is interesting is that if Maiden had been a brand new band in 2000, they probably would have been labeled as progressive metal, a label that would have stuck given the style and nature of the six albums released since then.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8901 on: June 19, 2022, 09:34:56 PM »
I think what is interesting is that if Maiden had been a brand new band in 2000, they probably would have been labeled as progressive metal, a label that would have stuck given the style and nature of the six albums released since then.

Thing is though, they’ve always been on the more progressive side. Phantom of the Opera, for example. It really starts to take hold a lot more across the Piece of Mind-Seventh Son era, and then after Bruce leaves they take on being a full time prog band. Nothing wrong with that at all, given their influences.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8902 on: June 19, 2022, 09:44:06 PM »
I think what is interesting is that if Maiden had been a brand new band in 2000, they probably would have been labeled as progressive metal, a label that would have stuck given the style and nature of the six albums released since then.

Yes, They always had prog tendencies but I agree with you they would have been labeled progressive metal if they came out in 2000. If you listen to Fear Is The Key from FotD its very proggy.

Offline 425

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8903 on: June 19, 2022, 10:10:57 PM »
No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

I strongly disagree. Wickerman, Brave New World, Blood Brothers, Mercenary, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, No More Lies, Monstsegur, Longest Day, FTGGOG etc have choruses that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and I don’t think every note would have been worshipped. Early Maiden had all that useless fat stripped away.

Yes, I pretty much agree with this. In the countdown thread it has been stated that someone prefers the more epic, progressive Maiden (referring to the reunion era) than an album like TNoTB. I guess where I sit you can't get a Maiden track more epic and progressive than Children of the Dammed (complete with repeated chorus lyrics) and the song is 4 and a half minutes long. So many of the reunion songs are just too long without earning their excessive length.

As the person who stated that, I'd first like to be clear that I was not referring exclusively to the reunion era. I was referring to an aspect of their sound that was dominant on SiT and SSoaSS and every album from 1995 to present, played a major role on PoM and Powerslave, and played a minor role on every other album.

Children of the Damned is a good song, but it was never in the running for my top 75. I also don't see it as particularly progressive by Maiden's standards. It's a change of pace in that it has more of a ballad feel at the beginning and builds up to an interesting bridge, but that doesn't strike me as unusually ambitious unless your bar is Killers.

In the case of that song, I also think the lyrics are a real barrier for me. I just do not want to hear about a child dying horribly, period. That's a general barrier to my enjoyment of the first three albums and NPftD. The sexual lyrics (which continued long enough to occupy one of the best songs, musically, on TNotB) kind of disgust me and the horror lyrics range from boring me (The Number of the Beast) to repelling me (Children of the Damned). The crime lyrics (most of Killers) are interesting at times, but not as much as the history, literature, etc. stuff they did more of later. There are exceptions on those first three albums, but those are the dominant themes.

And as for those 10 songs that are supposedly so badly drawn out, I'll just say that well over half of them are on my list, some of them quite high, precisely in most cases because they are doing things that I find ambitious, progressive and interesting.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 10:16:29 PM by 425 »
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8904 on: June 20, 2022, 05:46:53 AM »
Yeah I listed those songs not necessarily because I don’t like them but because of the endless repetition. The Longest Day is probably my favorite of those.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8905 on: June 20, 2022, 08:53:17 AM »
The Longest Day is one of those where I'd agree there's a real repetition problem, but the first half is so good that it doesn't matter too much.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8906 on: June 20, 2022, 09:14:44 AM »
The intro and verses to The Longest Day are fantastic. But I could never reconcile that chorus with the mood of the beginning. It’s the kind of thing they did on The X Factor that makes me feel like it wasn’t vetted out properly.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Dream Team

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8907 on: June 20, 2022, 10:48:55 AM »
The intro and verses to The Longest Day are fantastic. But I could never reconcile that chorus with the mood of the beginning. It’s the kind of thing they did on The X Factor that makes me feel like it wasn’t vetted out properly.

Agreed! Chorus for TLD should be DARK.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8908 on: June 20, 2022, 03:33:34 PM »
Was waiting for this. Maiden to cover the costs of Di'Anno's operation.

https://bravewords.com/news/iron-maiden-to-cover-remaining-cost-of-former-singer-paul-di-anno-s-operation

I remember how quickly they stepped up when they found out about Clive and I wondered what took so long with Paul. Glad to see they are finally lending a hand.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8909 on: June 20, 2022, 03:37:54 PM »
I saw that. Really cool. But holy shit, Paul Dianno is in rough shape. Still can't believe it'd been 30 years that Steve and Paul hadn't met.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline 425

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8910 on: June 20, 2022, 03:44:52 PM »
The intro and verses to The Longest Day are fantastic. But I could never reconcile that chorus with the mood of the beginning. It’s the kind of thing they did on The X Factor that makes me feel like it wasn’t vetted out properly.

Agreed! Chorus for TLD should be DARK.

I think the mood of the chorus is fine. The Normandy landing is not a wholly dark moment in history; it's intense and involves a lot of darkness, but there's also the commitment to a noble goal. It makes sense to me to have the verses emphasize the darkness and the chorus emphasize a little more the devotion and the expectation of eventual victory.

My problem is that it is just repeated far too many times.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8911 on: June 20, 2022, 04:46:35 PM »
Was waiting for this. Maiden to cover the costs of Di'Anno's operation.

https://bravewords.com/news/iron-maiden-to-cover-remaining-cost-of-former-singer-paul-di-anno-s-operation

I remember how quickly they stepped up when they found out about Clive and I wondered what took so long with Paul. Glad to see they are finally lending a hand.

Class from Maiden.  Could it be Steve didn't really know the severity of his situation until they met up again and went 'holy shit, we have to help this lad, he's cooked'?
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8912 on: June 20, 2022, 05:08:52 PM »
Was waiting for this. Maiden to cover the costs of Di'Anno's operation.

https://bravewords.com/news/iron-maiden-to-cover-remaining-cost-of-former-singer-paul-di-anno-s-operation

I remember how quickly they stepped up when they found out about Clive and I wondered what took so long with Paul. Glad to see they are finally lending a hand.

Class from Maiden.  Could it be Steve didn't really know the severity of his situation until they met up again and went 'holy shit, we have to help this lad, he's cooked'?

I can't imagine he didn't know, but maybe just without being in contact for so long that maybe it was an afterthought until they met recently.  I can't imagine the costs being something to put a dent in the IM cash flow so it feels appropriate and right to do this.  Cool move even if it was a bit late, I'm glad those guys seem to be friendly.

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8913 on: June 20, 2022, 05:10:13 PM »
Was waiting for this. Maiden to cover the costs of Di'Anno's operation.

https://bravewords.com/news/iron-maiden-to-cover-remaining-cost-of-former-singer-paul-di-anno-s-operation

I remember how quickly they stepped up when they found out about Clive and I wondered what took so long with Paul. Glad to see they are finally lending a hand.

Class from Maiden.  Could it be Steve didn't really know the severity of his situation until they met up again and went 'holy shit, we have to help this lad, he's cooked'?

I can't imagine he didn't know, but maybe just without being in contact for so long that maybe it was an afterthought until they met recently.  I can't imagine the costs being something to put a dent in the IM cash flow so it feels appropriate and right to do this.  Cool move even if it was a bit late, I'm glad those guys seem to be friendly.

True, they probably knew, but sometimes hearing about things is one thing but seeing it takes it to a whole new level.  Nevertheless, late, yes, but still the right result in the end.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8914 on: June 21, 2022, 04:41:03 PM »
I know we're focusing on Maiden at the moment but this came up in my Youtube last night and am working my way through it and will continue tonight.  An incredible boot from the Accident of Birth tour.  The band and Bruce here are absolutely killing it.  Really good.

https://youtu.be/z0M5T3fugIw
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8915 on: June 21, 2022, 04:53:06 PM »
I know we're focusing on Maiden at the moment but this came up in my Youtube last night and am working my way through it and will continue tonight.  An incredible boot from the Accident of Birth tour.  The band and Bruce here are absolutely killing it.  Really good.

https://youtu.be/z0M5T3fugIw

Wow, that's great. What a nice capture. I saw them 11 days later!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline gazinwales

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8916 on: June 21, 2022, 05:18:05 PM »
Those shorts he was wearing. :eek

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8917 on: June 21, 2022, 05:30:33 PM »
I know we're focusing on Maiden at the moment but this came up in my Youtube last night and am working my way through it and will continue tonight.  An incredible boot from the Accident of Birth tour.  The band and Bruce here are absolutely killing it.  Really good.

https://youtu.be/z0M5T3fugIw

Wow, that's great. What a nice capture. I saw them 11 days later!

Fuck that would have been a great show to see, they are blistering here.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8918 on: June 21, 2022, 05:30:55 PM »
Those shorts he was wearing. :eek

I'm sure the guys in the front row still have nightmares.  :lol
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8919 on: June 21, 2022, 06:11:04 PM »
I know we're focusing on Maiden at the moment but this came up in my Youtube last night and am working my way through it and will continue tonight.  An incredible boot from the Accident of Birth tour.  The band and Bruce here are absolutely killing it.  Really good.

https://youtu.be/z0M5T3fugIw

Wow, that's great. What a nice capture. I saw them 11 days later!

Fuck that would have been a great show to see, they are blistering here.

Plus it's not just Adrian, but also Roy Z/ Cassilas/Ingraham.

I remember being so happy to see Adrian here. I remember he looked like he was having such a good time, and that is confirmed watching this video. When he left Iron Maiden, I figured I'd never see him live again.

The first time I saw Bruce, Janick was his guitarist.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8920 on: June 21, 2022, 06:40:08 PM »
Yeah, I'm loving watching H here.  He is such a cool motherfucker.  True yet humble all out rock star.
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8921 on: June 21, 2022, 07:38:28 PM »
Poor Blaze...

Here's a great performance by the band of The Educated Fool..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk1x_Td_hO8

But Blaze...oh man..he looks like Smitty from Southie who won a radio contest to sing a song with the band.  :lol


But this is a GREAT song and deserves The Bruce Treatment someday.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8922 on: June 21, 2022, 10:34:21 PM »
I know we're focusing on Maiden at the moment but this came up in my Youtube last night and am working my way through it and will continue tonight.  An incredible boot from the Accident of Birth tour.  The band and Bruce here are absolutely killing it.  Really good.

https://youtu.be/z0M5T3fugIw

Wow, that's great. What a nice capture. I saw them 11 days later!

I saw them the night before this one! First time seeing Bruce and Adrian. I pretty much just watched Adrian all night. Roy was a freak of nature, I will have to say. His soloing was ridiculous, sometimes with his guitar behind his head and he played practically note perfect.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2022, 08:42:04 AM by ProfessorPeart »
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8923 on: June 21, 2022, 11:08:22 PM »
I'm so jealous of you guys seeing that show.  Unreal!  :hefdaddy
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Re: The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls
« Reply #8924 on: June 22, 2022, 04:50:37 AM »
Poor Blaze...

Here's a great performance by the band of The Educated Fool..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk1x_Td_hO8

But Blaze...oh man..he looks like Smitty from Southie who won a radio contest to sing a song with the band.  :lol


But this is a GREAT song and deserves The Bruce Treatment someday.

Wow, I actually never knew they played this one live.  Good video.

I dunno who Smitty is but Blaze looked way cooler on the X Factor tour.  Now, I can't talk about the backwards baseball cap cause their balding, but it was an awkward look for Maiden during that tour.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.