The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[jammindude]

Ironically, even though BOS would require 12 1/2 minutes of trimming to fit on a single disc, and Senjutsu would only require 2 minutes of trimming…I could easily take the former, but would have a much tougher time with the latter.

[425]

What is the virtue of cramming an album onto a single CD, especially in the age of ripping CDs, digital downloads and streaming? Yeah, you might be able to get Senjutsu under 80 minutes without reducing the quality too badly, but why do that? Why make musical compromises just to get under a number that has no meaning to anyone except those involved in the CD manufacturing process?

[cramx3]

What is the virtue of cramming an album onto a single CD, especially in the age of ripping CDs, digital downloads and streaming? Yeah, you might be able to get Senjutsu under 80 minutes without reducing the quality too badly, but why do that? Why make musical compromises just to get under a number that has no meaning to anyone except those involved in the CD manufacturing process?

Agreed. It's an obsolete thought to limit your self on a boundary that no longer exists.  Having said that, I think most of us could agree some trimming in the re-union era of IM wouldn't be too big of a detriment to the music, maybe even make some songs better.   

[425]

I'll be the one who disagrees with that, at least post-DoD. There are a number of songs on BNW that repeat the chorus a time or two too many (including good songs, like Ghost of the Navigator), and probably a few songs on DoD, too. But post-DoD, I could maybe come up with 4-5 songs at most that would be improved by being shorter.

[cramx3]

I'll be the one who disagrees with that, at least post-DoD. There are a number of songs on BNW that repeat the chorus a time or two too many (including good songs, like Ghost of the Navigator), and probably a few songs on DoD, too. But post-DoD, I could maybe come up with 4-5 songs at most that would be improved by being shorter.

Well, I did say the reunion era even though the discussion was mostly about the last two albums.  They've gotten much better about the repeating chorus issue, but even at 4-5 songs, that could be a solid difference over that time period.

[Zantera]

I think Maiden did a good job of pivoting and changing their formula slightly to fit with their strengths and weaknesses in the more modern area. While I feel they lost some magic in the 'hit song' writing area and the singles of the reunion albums forward (let's be honest even before that) have been good but not 80's era great - I think they have made up for that by perfecting their skill in writing epics. I also agree that the negative trope of repeating certain parts way too many times has thankfully decreased and was maybe at its worst on Brave New World or Dance of Death - 2 albums I still very much like.

[TAC]

Speaking of Maiden live albums - what is the deal with Maiden Japan? Is it an official release? I'm seeing it's either 4 or 5 songs, depending on the version...but then there are "unofficial" bootlegs with the whole set? For example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alfGdwifSxo

The show just went up on Dime today if anyone wants their own copy of it.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=732088

[Cool Chris]

What is the virtue of cramming an album onto a single CD, especially in the age of ripping CDs, digital downloads and streaming? Yeah, you might be able to get Senjutsu under 80 minutes without reducing the quality too badly, but why do that? Why make musical compromises just to get under a number that has no meaning to anyone except those involved in the CD manufacturing process?

I waffle on this. Art should never be created to fit the medium. But then I see an album that is 90 seconds longer than can fit on a CD, and I think "c'mon guys..." I bought the CD and put it on my computer and mp3 player, and have the same thought when I see it split in to two discs. I suppose I could just file them under one album, but I am a bit particular about my filing, so if it is on 2 CDs, it gets filed as 2 discs.

[Setlist Scotty]

What is the virtue of cramming an album onto a single CD, especially in the age of ripping CDs, digital downloads and streaming? Yeah, you might be able to get Senjutsu under 80 minutes without reducing the quality too badly, but why do that? Why make musical compromises just to get under a number that has no meaning to anyone except those involved in the CD manufacturing process?

I waffle on this. Art should never be created to fit the medium. But then I see an album that is 90 seconds longer than can fit on a CD, and I think "c'mon guys..." I bought the CD and put it on my computer and mp3 player, and have the same thought when I see it split in to two discs. I suppose I could just file them under one album, but I am a bit particular about my filing, so if it is on 2 CDs, it gets filed as 2 discs.

What about Metallica's last album, which was under 78 minutes, and yet they still split it on to 2 CDs. 
(Odd especially for them since they edited The Outlaw Torn so that they could keep everything on Load to once CD)

[Zantera]

Listening to Live After Death for the first time in probably over a decade and aside from it being a fantastic live album, it's kinda weird to listen to live albums like this from a band's prime when the typical encore/hit songs are just normal songs in the set. Like the first 3 songs being Aces High/2 Minutes to Midnight/The Trooper is just kinda nuts. Having TNOTB/Hallowed/Iron Maiden/Run to the Hills just sprinkled in the middle of the set is also kinda wild. 

I guess i'm just so used to live albums from later in the band's career where you have your typical 'recent stuff filler' (that isn't always bad quality-wise) before you get to the hits.

[Glasser]

Listening to Live After Death for the first time in probably over a decade and aside from it being a fantastic live album, it's kinda weird to listen to live albums like this from a band's prime when the typical encore/hit songs are just normal songs in the set. Like the first 3 songs being Aces High/2 Minutes to Midnight/The Trooper is just kinda nuts. Having TNOTB/Hallowed/Iron Maiden/Run to the Hills just sprinkled in the middle of the set is also kinda wild. 

I guess i'm just so used to live albums from later in the band's career where you have your typical 'recent stuff filler' (that isn't always bad quality-wise) before you get to the hits.

You said it! Back in the day they didn't have filler stuff in my opinion.

[Cool Chris]

You guys are calling "typical recent stuff" played on as part of a live set "filler?"

[Glasser]

You guys are calling "typical recent stuff" played on as part of a live set "filler?"

Filler is a strong word here, sorry for that, but after decades of albums you're not going to make everyone happy with a set list. When they first "stormed the world" back in the day many of their songs could have been encores let alone considered fillers. Its only because of the huge catalog they have now that we can be choosy. It wasn't meant to start a beef. 

[Cool Chris]

No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

[Glasser]

No beef at all, just curious how you were viewing it.

If brave new world, dance of death and a Matter of life and Death were their first three albums every note of every song would be bowed upon. Yes I do love all of these albums today but you get my point?!

[TAC]

(Odd especially for them since they edited The Outlaw Torn so that they could keep everything on Load to once CD)

[nobloodyname]

(Odd especially for them since they edited The Outlaw Torn so that they could keep everything on Load to once CD)

The unedited version was later released as a B-side on one of the singles. It was called something like Outlaw Torn (Unencumbered by Manufacturing Restrictions). And... yup... here you go: https://www.discogs.com/release/6942978-Metallica-The-Memory-Remains

[wolfking]

I was always annoyed at that.  Should have just cut Ronnie and put the whole version on there instead.

[jjrock88]

Wolfarama….how awesome is Deja Vu by Maiden

[TAC]

I'm watching this show tonight.
Rock Am Ring 2014.  WOW!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcKRF5y7s0

[jammindude]

Question:  Wasn't Nicko like the only drummer to basically refuse to use a double bass?    I thought that was part of his schtick.   But I'm listening to Face in the Sand and thinking to myself that there's no way he's doing that bass drum with one foot.   Or am I just remembering a false "factoid"? 

[TAC]

Question:  Wasn't Nicko like the only drummer to basically refuse to use a double bass?    I thought that was part of his schtick.   But I'm listening to Face in the Sand and thinking to myself that there's no way he's doing that bass drum with one foot.   Or am I just remembering a false "factoid"?

https://drummagazine.com/analysis-of-nicko-mcbrains-iron-maiden-licks/


Says here it's a double bass. The only song he uses it on.

[wolfking]

Wolfarama….how awesome is Deja Vu by Maiden

It's a very underrated cut.  I love Dave's songwriting, he always brings something a bit different to the table.

[wolfking]

Question:  Wasn't Nicko like the only drummer to basically refuse to use a double bass?    I thought that was part of his schtick.   But I'm listening to Face in the Sand and thinking to myself that there's no way he's doing that bass drum with one foot.   Or am I just remembering a false "factoid"?

https://drummagazine.com/analysis-of-nicko-mcbrains-iron-maiden-licks/


Says here it's a double bass. The only song he uses it on.

I wish he used it more.  He destroys the double bass on that song.

[nick_z]

Question:  Wasn't Nicko like the only drummer to basically refuse to use a double bass?    I thought that was part of his schtick.   But I'm listening to Face in the Sand and thinking to myself that there's no way he's doing that bass drum with one foot.   Or am I just remembering a false "factoid"?

https://drummagazine.com/analysis-of-nicko-mcbrains-iron-maiden-licks/


Says here it's a double bass. The only song he uses it on.

This was a cool read…

Yeah, I knew from reading it somewhere that Face in the Sand was the only song where he used a double pedal…and that he was sort of uncomfortable doing that.

I remember when I first heard a song like Caught Somewhere in Time, I couldn’t quite believe that wasn’t double bass. I get that he has this particular technique, but that song is insane. Any drummer in the forum that can explain to me how he does it?

Another super-cool drum part (among many) is what Nicko does in the Infinite Dreams solo section, especially under that beautiful harmonized guitar part. The bass drum pattern there is fantastic.

[TAC]

The song that I find incredible that it's not double bass is Dream Of Mirrors.


I think he can go pretty fast when it's in groups of threes. The bass drum rests when the snare hits unlike double bass that plays right through the snare hit.

[nick_z]

The song that I find incredible that it's not double bass is Dream Of Mirrors.


I think he can go pretty fast when it's in groups of threes. The bass drum rests when the snare hits unlike double bass that plays right through the snare hit.

Yep, Dream of Mirrors too…but, again, the speed of that gallop in Caught…is just out of this world for a single pedal…

[TAC]

Caught Somewhere In Time is a GREAT song!!!!

[nick_z]

Caught Somewhere In Time is a GREAT song!!!!

It sure is!!

[wolfking]

I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.

Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.

[Glasser]

Caught Somewhere In Time is a GREAT song!!!!

I love it! Stranger in a strange land kicks ass! Actually every song on SiT does!

[Zantera]

You guys are calling "typical recent stuff" played on as part of a live set "filler?"

I don't think Maiden really has a lot of filler so maybe the use of the word is harsh, but whether it's Rock in Rio or En Vivo for example, you have those parts in the set that are clearly 'hey this is from the new album and we gotta give these songs some love' and you kinda know that beyond the tour for this album, these songs will appear very rarely again. We've come to think of songs like Number of the Beast/Run to the Hills/Hallowed be thy Name to be end of setlist or encore songs and to just have them sort of shoved into the middle of the set to fill it out and having other songs saved for later is really cool. 

[TAC]

I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.

Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.

Is that different than the swivel?

[wolfking]

I think it's a technique where he uses the hell then toe kind of thing to get the gallop, but I could be talking out my ass.

Yeah, it's definitely the heel-toe technique. I use it quite often in my own drumming when I want to play really fast double bass parts. The difference is he is only using 1 pedal, I do 2 pedals.

Is that different than the swivel?

Is this like The Twist?