The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[425]

If you look at the Blaze albums in a vacuum I think he did a decent job but he starts to feel a lot more out of place when you factor in the Maiden legacy as a whole. It's quite painful hearing him sing some of their classic songs (being used to the Bruce versions) and I know some of it isn't his fault - like the band refusing to alter the songs (key/tempo and such) and I think unfortunately the Steve Harris decision to hire Blaze because he was 'different' ended up hitting back at Blaze the most with all the hate he has gotten over the years for not being Bruce. Part of me feels bad for him but I'm also happy Bruce got back. I do think Bruce is the face of Maiden and it didn't feel the same when he was out.

I think this is a fair analysis, and I agree with most of it. I think it's hard to dispute that firing Blaze and bringing back Bruce was the right decision for the band, both artistically and commercially. I don't think even Blaze would dispute it.

And that's one aspect of why I'm rather defensive of Blaze. To me, he has demonstrated just exemplary handling of a really difficult situation. He got a chance to be part of one of the biggest bands in the genre and made some music with them that he's rightly proud of. And instead of being resentful about the fan reception or about being kicked out of the band, he acknowledges and respects why the band made the choice they did, and maintains a positive attitude toward and good relations with them (including with the guy who replaced him, it seems: he did an interview with Bruce a while ago when Bruce had a radio show, which I recall being pretty interesting).

And he made the most of the opportunity he was given: He's carried the banner for the two albums he did with Iron Maiden, not shying away from them because of their unpopularity, but sort of rallying their small but passionate fanbase and routinely performing songs that Maiden (for understandable reasons, given the size of their discography and the reception of those albums) neglects. And he's done that while refusing to just become a nostalgia act: He has not gone longer than four years without releasing an album since leaving Maiden.

[Stadler]

The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

Perhaps, but Bon Scott and David Lee Roth, while not powerhouse singers like Dickinson, were legendary hard rock singers, and AC/DC and Van Halen did just fine (commercially and with the fanbases, the Roth diehards who weren't gonna accept any new singer in VH notwithstanding) with their immediate replacements, and I have to think that had Maiden gotten a really good singer who was a good fit, the fans would have been accepting.  In my listens of the Blaze albums, I could hear nice moments, almost like there were gems in there somewhere, but they were lost underneath a) the poor sound/mixes, and b) the mediocre vocals.

Sure, but Sammy was more than well known, and even Brian Johnson was moderately successful with Geordie, though no one could've forseen how big AC/DC was about to get. AC/DC, though, was NOT at Maiden's level when Scott died/Bruce left.

 I think this is right.   The only band that REALLY did as well or better after a "singer" change was Van Halen.  They are almost the exception that proves the rule.   The Bon Scott/Brian Johnson change is more like the Paul Di'Anno to Bruce change.

[Mosh]

I think there are a lot of false equivalencies and missing context in some of these comparisons. Hagar came into Van Halen just as VH was exploding and Hagar had a recent hit single of his own. It was a match that, while certainly risky, was well suited to be huge. Iron Maiden in the early 90s was already in decline in a lot of major territories and Blaze was coming in as an unknown. I definitely think the lineup change accelerated that decline, but a slump in the 90s was probably inevitable.

[nobloodyname]

If you look at the Blaze albums in a vacuum I think he did a decent job but he starts to feel a lot more out of place when you factor in the Maiden legacy as a whole. It's quite painful hearing him sing some of their classic songs (being used to the Bruce versions) and I know some of it isn't his fault - like the band refusing to alter the songs (key/tempo and such) and I think unfortunately the Steve Harris decision to hire Blaze because he was 'different' ended up hitting back at Blaze the most with all the hate he has gotten over the years for not being Bruce. Part of me feels bad for him but I'm also happy Bruce got back. I do think Bruce is the face of Maiden and it didn't feel the same when he was out.

I think this is a fair analysis, and I agree with most of it. I think it's hard to dispute that firing Blaze and bringing back Bruce was the right decision for the band, both artistically and commercially. I don't think even Blaze would dispute it.

And that's one aspect of why I'm rather defensive of Blaze. To me, he has demonstrated just exemplary handling of a really difficult situation. He got a chance to be part of one of the biggest bands in the genre and made some music with them that he's rightly proud of. And instead of being resentful about the fan reception or about being kicked out of the band, he acknowledges and respects why the band made the choice they did, and maintains a positive attitude toward and good relations with them (including with the guy who replaced him, it seems: he did an interview with Bruce a while ago when Bruce had a radio show, which I recall being pretty interesting).

And he made the most of the opportunity he was given: He's carried the banner for the two albums he did with Iron Maiden, not shying away from them because of their unpopularity, but sort of rallying their small but passionate fanbase and routinely performing songs that Maiden (for understandable reasons, given the size of their discography and the reception of those albums) neglects. And he's done that while refusing to just become a nostalgia act: He has not gone longer than four years without releasing an album since leaving Maiden.

Agree with every word of that, 425; you've captured how many of us feel very succinctly.

[MirrorMask]

Indeed, very wise words!

I'd daresay that, as weird as it might seem, Blaze might have gotten more fans after leaving Maiden than while he was with the band. Those who were not completely and aggressively against his very existance and forgot about him the second Bruce came back and gave Blaze a fair chance, out of curiosity if nothing else, found out that with the right material he could be allowed to shine, and took a liking to him and a better understanding of him. Silicon Messiah and The Tenth Dimension are great albums, for example, and Stare at the Sun tramples everything on Virtual XI except The Clansman.

[425]

Stare at the Sun is a really good song. I don't know how I'd rate it next to the songs on VXI, but it's a really good song.

I think Blaze probably did get more fans after leaving Maiden, partly from people who gave him a fair chance on his own material. But I think a large part also comes from younger fans of Maiden, who got into the band already knowing the reunion happened and thus approached Blaze knowing he was the singer for just two albums, not for the indefinite future of the band. With that knowledge in mind, there's not so much tension over "is this the voice of Iron Maiden?" and more room to take or leave the albums for what they are—which then channels them to check out his solo stuff if they like his voice.

[cramx3]

Yeah, I got into IM after his departure so I was curious about his own stuff and pleasantly surprised when I first started listening to his solo music.  It also helps that he's been very active with putting out new music, touring, and from all I've heard, just a generally nice and likeable guy.  I haven't heard much of any of that regarding Dianno for example.  I've never even checked out his work outside IM and honestly never really thought about it, which is odd I guess now that I think about it.

[Stadler]

I honestly don't know one Blaze solo song and am indifferent on his two albums with Maiden, but I LOVE the guy, based on everything everyone else has written here.  No way you can claim he's anything but a class guy that has walked the right line on his time with Maiden.  Used it without exploiting it, honest without being vindictive... and from what I hear he delivers both on-stage and off to fans while he's on tour. 

[MirrorMask]

Well, if you wanna rectify that, his first solo album, Silicon Messiah, is a very good place to start.

It's safe to say that if that album doesn't work for you, Blaze isn't really the right guy for you, musically speaking, but if you like it.... lot of solo stuff out there to enjoy!

[Mladen]

I am quite confident that a Blaze Bayley thread would see plenty of discussion and posts. Not only are there ten albums to talk about, but the guy is putting out new stuff very frequently.

[wolfking]

SM is a remarkable debut.  Heavy, lots of Maiden influence and sounds great.  Tenth Dimension follows on from that nicely too.

Blood and Belief I always loved too.  Slightly darker but some really wonderful songs.  The Man Who Would Not Die and Promise and Terror also are both excellent, heavy albums.

[425]

Blood and Belief was the one that stopped my progression through Blaze's discography years ago. I really like Silicon Messiah and Tenth Dimension, but that one didn't do it for me. Maybe I'll try it again at some point.

I am resuming my trek now, though: I have Promise and Terror and the new one on order. Unfortunately, The Man Who Would Not Die seems to be out of print.

[cramx3]

He also has a live album called As Live as It Gets recorded from 2002 where it features mostly tracks from his first two solo albums (Silicon Messiah and Tenth Dimension) plus a few Iron Maiden songs, it's really good.  It's actually what sucked me into his solo albums.  If I recall, I got that album before his studio albums because he performed the IM song Virus on it.  Then I went back and got his two solo albums and eventually more.  I kind of stopped following him after Promise and Terror, not really sure why, but his latest album that came out in 2021 got me back onboard.  Really good and consistent solo career of music.  I probably should check out the rest of his albums, but just have not gotten around to it.

[Zantera]

I must admit I haven't listened to much Blaze stuff outside of his work with Maiden, but having only seen a couple of interviews with him, he comes off as one of the nicest guys in the business. He seems very humble and thankful of his time in Maiden and I feel there are similar cases where a member was pushed out a band, and even though they try to keep a nice face in interviews, you can pick up on a hint of resentment or bitterness, but I've never gotten that from Blaze. He seems like a really cool guy who came in, did his job to the best of his ability, it wasn't really clicking and for the band it made sense to get Bruce and Adrian back in and I think he understands that too.

[Dream Team]

My goodness Kev went through the entire discography and all anyone wants to talk about is freaking Blaze Bailey  . Bruce who?

[KevShmev]

Hilarious, ain't it? 

[MirrorMask]

Well, back to Senjutsu, yesterday I heard it for a round trip in the evening and I enjoyed the living shit out of it. Very solid effort that doesn't implode under its weight (or length) at all.

I still think I like The Book of Souls a bit better - it had three absolute monster tracks (opener, title track and obviously Empire) and many other solid songs, while Senjutsu has more of that "heard this before" feel, and that guitar line doubling Bruce's vocals plastered all across the darn album, but all in all, it's a great album and the three epics at the end are all great. I must have spaced out being concentrated on driving 'cause Parchment's solo section didn't even feel that long, when it ended I was like "oh, back to vocals already'?".

And the second solo of The Writing on the Wall is memorable and the best on the album, who did that? Adrian?

[DTA]

Well, back to Senjutsu, yesterday I heard it for a round trip in the evening and I enjoyed the living shit out of it. Very solid effort that doesn't implode under its weight (or length) at all.

I still think I like The Book of Souls a bit better - it had three absolute monster tracks (opener, title track and obviously Empire) and many other solid songs, while Senjutsu has more of that "heard this before" feel, and that guitar line doubling Bruce's vocals plastered all across the darn album, but all in all, it's a great album and the three epics at the end are all great. I must have spaced out being concentrated on driving 'cause Parchment's solo section didn't even feel that long, when it ended I was like "oh, back to vocals already'?".

And the second solo of The Writing on the Wall is memorable and the best on the album, who did that? Adrian?

The Book of Souls feels like a chore to get through after awhile even though I think all the songs are pretty strong whereas just Senjutsu flies by for me without overstaying its welcome. Even with the epics clumped together at the end, the pacing feels really good to me.

[KevShmev]

My impression was that both The Book of Souls and Senjutsu would have benefited by lopping off some of the dead weight (both have a couple songs that seem pretty average and could have been left off), but The Book of Souls, for me, has much higher highs.  I don't think there is anything on Senjutsu that touches The Red and the Black, The Book of Souls or Empire of the Clouds.  Death or Glory and If Eternity Should Fail are quite nice as well. 

[425]

My goodness Kev went through the entire discography and all anyone wants to talk about is freaking Blaze Bailey  . Bruce who?

To be direct, I find a post like this unhelpful and somewhat rude. If you have something you want to talk about, you can bring it up, preferably without sort of implying that we're all stupid and wrong for talking about something else. But this thread doesn't exist solely to talk about things that specifically interest you.

The Book of Souls feels like a chore to get through after awhile even though I think all the songs are pretty strong whereas just Senjutsu flies by for me without overstaying its welcome. Even with the epics clumped together at the end, the pacing feels really good to me.

I'm close to agreeing with this. I think of the two albums, Senjutsu is significantly stronger—both more consistent and with higher highs. The Book of Souls has a few weaker songs that make its 90 minutes feel a lot longer than Senjutsu's 80. I never got into When the River Runs Deep, and Tears of a Clown is okay but weaker than anything on Senjutsu. I also am not a huge fan of Death or Glory, though I know it's widely loved by others.

[Stadler]

Well, back to Senjutsu, yesterday I heard it for a round trip in the evening and I enjoyed the living shit out of it. Very solid effort that doesn't implode under its weight (or length) at all.

I still think I like The Book of Souls a bit better - it had three absolute monster tracks (opener, title track and obviously Empire) and many other solid songs, while Senjutsu has more of that "heard this before" feel, and that guitar line doubling Bruce's vocals plastered all across the darn album, but all in all, it's a great album and the three epics at the end are all great. I must have spaced out being concentrated on driving 'cause Parchment's solo section didn't even feel that long, when it ended I was like "oh, back to vocals already'?".

And the second solo of The Writing on the Wall is memorable and the best on the album, who did that? Adrian?

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO. 

[KevShmev]

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO.

I think it is really good, but when I spitballed a list of 25 favorites so far, I didn't list it simply because I doubt it will become a song I listen to very often.  With songs of that length, something has to be really, really special for me to spin it regularly, like 2112 which I probably listened to 2,112 times in the 90s , and many of the Neal Morse(-related) ones.  Empire of the Clouds I see as being one of those treats I will spin a few times a year and enjoy the heck out of, and that will be enough. 

[425]

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO. 

I agree that it gets more praise for what it is than its quality as a song—I like it a lot, but I put it below a ton of the reunion epics.

But most overrated really depends on what circles you're talking about, and given the prevalence of "80s good, everything else bad" fans out there, I would be hard pressed to choose anything off a post-Seventh Son album as their most overrated song (to grab one off the top of my head: maybe Killers).

[KevShmev]

But most overrated really depends on what circles you're talking about, and given the prevalence of "80s good, everything else bad" fans out there, I would be hard pressed to choose anything off a post-Seventh Son album as their most overrated song (to grab one off the top of my head: maybe Killers).

 

Oh no, you didn't!

[nick_z]

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO.

I don't know if I'd go as far as "most overrated" (that's a difficult concept to define anyway), but I can't say I disagree with the sentiment. I do like the song too, but the whole "longest IM song evah" aura surely helped give it additional weight...

[TAC]

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO.

I don't know if I'd go as far as "most overrated" (that's a difficult concept to define anyway), but I can't say I disagree with the sentiment. I do like the song too, but the whole "longest IM song evah" aura surely helped give it additional weight...

This is exactly how I felt about Rime Of The Ancient Mariner in 1984/85.

[WardySI]

Well, if you wanna rectify that, his first solo album, Silicon Messiah, is a very good place to start.

It's safe to say that if that album doesn't work for you, Blaze isn't really the right guy for you, musically speaking, but if you like it.... lot of solo stuff out there to enjoy!

100%

To my mind Blaze very nearly outdid Maiden's Brave New World with Silicon Messiah.  Say what ya like but that album proved how good he could really be and that's coming from someone who loves his Maiden stuff.

While Tenth Dimension that followed was great as was his recent William Black trilogy he really outdid himself with this year's War Inside Me too!

[TAC]

He's had a tremendous solo career. His albums are excellent. My sweet spot is The Man Who Would Not Die/Promise & terror.

[WardySI]

He's had a tremendous solo career. His albums are excellent. My sweet spot is The Man Who Would Not Die/Promise & terror.

Yep both brilliant albums which deserved to be rounded out with a third but instead let down somewhat by the mediocre The King Of Metal.

I remember Bruce interviewing Blaze for The Man WWND
on his radio show or something which was quite cool too🤘

[TAC]

I remember Bruce interviewing Blaze for The Man WWND
on his radio show or something which was quite cool too🤘

Yeah, great respect.

[WardySI]

And am just rereading and noticed 425 already pointed out Blaze being interviewed by Bruce at top of this page!  I clearly missed that on first glance and put that down to finishing nightshift and unwinding with some music reading here before getting some shut eye 🥱

Poor form by me and I point that out because I hate it when it's clear people haven't read through others comments particularly recent ones before posting their own.  So yep my bad 🤦

[425]

No worries! There's been a lot of discussion, and I tend to write longer posts, so I understand missing one point in there.

[KevShmev]

Hot take:  Empire is the most overrated song in the Maiden catalogue.  Not that it's bad, it's not, it's actually pretty good, but I think it gets more praise for what it is (18 minute epic with piano) than it's quality as a song.  IMO.

I don't know if I'd go as far as "most overrated" (that's a difficult concept to define anyway), but I can't say I disagree with the sentiment. I do like the song too, but the whole "longest IM song evah" aura surely helped give it additional weight...

This is exactly how I felt about Rime Of The Ancient Mariner in 1984/85.

Where do you rate that one now?

[TAC]

It has aged very well, I'll say. I'll go through phases where I'll want to hear as many versions as I can. I don't rate it as a favorite track, but the thing with Iron Maiden is that many of their songs grow the more they marinate.

Powerslave , in general, has aged very well.

I was not impressed with the album when it came out. What can I say? That is how I felt as a 16 y/o.

[KevShmev]

Yep, it happens.  Even though Powerslave is my favorite album of theirs so far, I think Alexander the Great is their best album closer from the 80s.