The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[KevShmev]

So Kev, what stood out to you the most on these original run-throughs? Bruce's vocals? Guitar players? Songwriting?

Songwriting, first and foremost, but I was impressed with all of the instrumentation, especially Steve Harris, who I never realized was that good on the bass guitar.

Bruce is obviously a really good singer, but I still do not totally connect with his voice.  It is fine, but even still, with my new fandom, he wouldn't come close to being one of my favorite singers.

[Stadler]

Blood Brothers became much more appreciated from me when I saw them play it live on TBOS tour.  It was phenomenal.

I had that same reaction.  The night I saw - Brooklyn - that song SLAYED. 

[Zydar]

I've always really loved Blood Brothers, perhaps it's even my favourite song from the whole reunion era. I don't mind the repeated choruses, and it must be a phenomenal song live.

My favourite section:

Just for a second a glimpse of my father I see
And in a movement he beckons to me
And in a moment the memories are all that remain
And all the wounds are reopening again

I'd lost my father the year before (1999) so I can relate to that.

[Stadler]

But wait a second; I respect all the opinions here, and let me be clear that I like Blaze the MAN a lot; he handled a shitty situation with class, aplomb and dignity, even when it wasn't always the best course for him.  He's just flat out a nice guy from all I've heard.  I also don't HATE those records as much as some (though they are lower tier for me). 

But we're not talking about a bar band looking to make it big.  We're talking about a STADIUM level band (at least internationally) looking to replace their singer.   I don't know why we're looking for ways to make him fit.  Whether Blaze could do it or not is a different story, but why should Steve concede that we're not going to do x songs or that we're not going to play them the way we've always played them?   Bruce is a one-of-a-kind, for sure, but his range isn't what makes Bruce one-of-a-kind, and that was a problem for Blaze. 

[TAC]

Bruce is a one-of-a-kind, for sure, but his range isn't what makes Bruce one-of-a-kind, and that was a problem for Blaze.

So true.

[425]

My suspicion is that Steve had The X Factor in mind already when he went to choose a singer, and Blaze was the perfect singer for The X Factor, along with probably being a good fit personality-wise. And then he either didn't think enough about or didn't care enough about how this would work performing the older material live.

[MirrorMask]

As far as I remember, no work on the album was done before hiring Blaze. Yeah, maybe he had an "idea" of an album in mind, but the music itself wasn't written.

As for Blaze, I too fall in the category "great and humble bloke, nice singer, NOT GOOD for Maiden", and the band didn't do any favors to him as said in previous posts. It was stubborn and perplexing of them to not downtune or change a bit the setlist - it was a golden opportunity to bring back some more Di'Anno songs.

[425]

I think you're right about the timeline, but I think there's a good chance the idea of the album influenced the choice of singer. Although maybe it was the other way round. Either way, I think Blaze and TXF are really, really compatible, while Blaze and the earlier Maiden albums are not particularly compatible.

Blaze does absolutely nail Afraid to Shoot Strangers, though.

[cramx3]

Blaze does absolutely nail Afraid to Shoot Strangers, though.

I always thought this was his best vocals on a Bruce song

[Stadler]

Blaze does absolutely nail Afraid to Shoot Strangers, though.

I always thought this was his best vocals on a Bruce song

Agreed

[Zantera]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

[cramx3]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget. 

[Dream Team]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget.

Dream of Mirrors for sure. Maybe Mercenary and OOTSP?

[Zantera]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget.

I believe Adrian Smith confirmed that The Nomad, Dream of Mirrors and The Mercenary were written for Virtual XI. I do like Brave New World quite a bit as an album but that album definitely has a couple of songs that are just as bad as The Angel and the Gambler in terms of repetitiveness and the chorus being used way too many times. Sometimes less is more.

[cramx3]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget.

I believe Adrian Smith confirmed that The Nomad, Dream of Mirrors and The Mercenary were written for Virtual XI. I do like Brave New World quite a bit as an album but that album definitely has a couple of songs that are just as bad as The Angel and the Gambler in terms of repetitiveness and the chorus being used way too many times. Sometimes less is more.

This is where I disagree, there is nothing as bad on ANY IM album as TAatG  I'm probably a broken record at this point as to how much I dislike that song.

[Zantera]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget.

I believe Adrian Smith confirmed that The Nomad, Dream of Mirrors and The Mercenary were written for Virtual XI. I do like Brave New World quite a bit as an album but that album definitely has a couple of songs that are just as bad as The Angel and the Gambler in terms of repetitiveness and the chorus being used way too many times. Sometimes less is more.

This is where I disagree, there is nothing as bad on ANY IM album as TAatG  I'm probably a broken record at this point as to how much I dislike that song.

I don't necessarily rate TAatG but to me songs like Blood Brothers, Dream of Mirrors and The Mercenary to name a few are up there in terms of being too repetitive IMO. Unfortunately it's a thing they have done a couple of times since as well, IMO a chorus doesn't get better if it's repeated 20 times. 

[cramx3]

The repetitiveness, while your point, is not the only reason I despise that song. 

[Stadler]

The repetitiveness, while your point, is not the only reason I despise that song.

I don't want to make you repeat yourself, but why DO you dislike it?  Not arguing, just curious (knowing how much you love the band). 

[425]

I don't personally dislike Blaze but I always felt Brave New World got a lot better reception due to having Bruce because I think musically a lot of the songs aren't really any stronger than the Blaze albums. I could imagine a couple of the more liked songs on it (whether that's The Wicker Man, the title track or Blood Brothers) with Blaze on vocals and the fanbase would have had a very different opinion on that album I think.

Personally I think The X Factor is pretty cool, Virtual XI isn't as bad as people say. The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

I always forget which songs, but weren't a couple actually written from the Blaze era?  I want to say Nomad was one, but I forget.

I believe Adrian Smith confirmed that The Nomad, Dream of Mirrors and The Mercenary were written for Virtual XI. I do like Brave New World quite a bit as an album but that album definitely has a couple of songs that are just as bad as The Angel and the Gambler in terms of repetitiveness and the chorus being used way too many times. Sometimes less is more.

Adrian confirmed those three in an interview where he said there were four, but he couldn't remember the other. He also apparently said that Blood Brothers wasn't the fourth one. But in another interview, Steve said Blood Brothers was partially written during VXI.

So either there are four besides Blood Brothers and the remaining one is unknown, or it's those four and Adrian was just wrong. If there's a fifth song, I'd guess The Thin Line Between Love and Hate, because that's the remaining song on the album that doesn't have a credit for either Bruce or Adrian, but I'm doubtful about that one because it feels very much like it was written for Bruce. The others sound like ones that Blaze could tackle.

Blaze also has said that he wrote some of the lyrics to Dream of Mirrors, and I see no reason to disbelieve that, especially given the band's spotty history with giving proper credit. It seems up his alley in terms of subject matter (and up 'Arry's, too, just to be fair).


On the other point: The Angel and the Gambler rocks. No caveats. It rocks.

[cramx3]

The repetitiveness, while your point, is not the only reason I despise that song.

I don't want to make you repeat yourself, but why DO you dislike it?  Not arguing, just curious (knowing how much you love the band).

it's extremely boring to me.  But the keys in this are maybe the most annoying sound I've ever heard in a song (the keys before the verse, not during the verses/chorus).  It just doesn't sound right at all, so to me, the song is dead upon arrival.  Then it goes on for over 9 minutes!!! And that's where the repeativeness really takes it to another level of terribleness.  The break before the instrumental where it gets soft adds to the boringness of the song.  It's quite amazing that the single for the music video version is only 4 minutes long and even that feels like a chore to get through.

[425]

Adrian confirmed those three in an interview where he said there were four, but he couldn't remember the other. He also apparently said that Blood Brothers wasn't the fourth one. But in another interview, Steve said Blood Brothers was partially written during VXI.

So either there are four besides Blood Brothers and the remaining one is unknown, or it's those four and Adrian was just wrong. If there's a fifth song, I'd guess The Thin Line Between Love and Hate, because that's the remaining song on the album that doesn't have a credit for either Bruce or Adrian, but I'm doubtful about that one because it feels very much like it was written for Bruce. The others sound like ones that Blaze could tackle.

I forgot to add: We can actually hear Blaze's take on Blood Brothers in this acoustic version. He doesn't give away any information about when it was written, but this just sounds like a song that was made for him (not a slight to Bruce at all; he absolutely made it his own).

[KevShmev]

The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

Perhaps, but Bon Scott and David Lee Roth, while not powerhouse singers like Dickinson, were legendary hard rock singers, and AC/DC and Van Halen did just fine (commercially and with the fanbases, the Roth diehards who weren't gonna accept any new singer in VH notwithstanding) with their immediate replacements, and I have to think that had Maiden gotten a really good singer who was a good fit, the fans would have been accepting.  In my listens of the Blaze albums, I could hear nice moments, almost like there were gems in there somewhere, but they were lost underneath a) the poor sound/mixes, and b) the mediocre vocals.

[TAC]

The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

Perhaps, but Bon Scott and David Lee Roth, while not powerhouse singers like Dickinson, were legendary hard rock singers, and AC/DC and Van Halen did just fine (commercially and with the fanbases, the Roth diehards who weren't gonna accept any new singer in VH notwithstanding) with their immediate replacements, and I have to think that had Maiden gotten a really good singer who was a good fit, the fans would have been accepting.  In my listens of the Blaze albums, I could hear nice moments, almost like there were gems in there somewhere, but they were lost underneath a) the poor sound/mixes, and b) the mediocre vocals.

Sure, but Sammy was more than well known, and even Brian Johnson was moderately successful with Geordie, though no one could've forseen how big AC/DC was about to get. AC/DC, though, was NOT at Maiden's level when Scott died/Bruce left.

[KevShmev]

The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

Perhaps, but Bon Scott and David Lee Roth, while not powerhouse singers like Dickinson, were legendary hard rock singers, and AC/DC and Van Halen did just fine (commercially and with the fanbases, the Roth diehards who weren't gonna accept any new singer in VH notwithstanding) with their immediate replacements, and I have to think that had Maiden gotten a really good singer who was a good fit, the fans would have been accepting.  In my listens of the Blaze albums, I could hear nice moments, almost like there were gems in there somewhere, but they were lost underneath a) the poor sound/mixes, and b) the mediocre vocals.

Sure, but Sammy was more than well known, and even Brian Johnson was moderately successful with Geordie, though no one could've forseen how big AC/DC was about to get. AC/DC, though, was NOT at Maiden's level when Scott died/Bruce left.

Fair point.

Reading up, it looks like Di'Anno has made a mess of his life over the years, but the more I listen, the more I realize what a good job he did on those first two albums. Those first two albums remind me of Priest's Rocka Rolla in that they hadn't gone full tilt with the metal yet and is more a cool blend of hard rock and laid back chill rock.  The vibe on both of those records is pretty damn good.

[TAC]

Dianno had a great voice, but he ended up being a real loose cannon. I followed his output throughout the 80's, and enjoyed it.
I think I posted a comprehensive recap of it a little while ago.

[wolfking]

I'm still yet to checkout a single thing from Dianno post Maiden.

[425]

I honestly find Di'Anno unpleasant enough personally to dissuade me from taking any interest in his later works.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I have zero interest in checking out anything he did outside of Maiden, but I do like the debut and Killers both a lot.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Check out Nomad, a great Dianno album:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1aXhSbVE0s8594VTjYpsUSh-X4crG8Va

[The Realm]

I'm the same with Dianno, in that I have never checked out any of his output post Maiden, but I love those first 2 Maiden albums and his contribution to them. Maiden became a different band once Bruce joined but those first 2 albums are classics to me.

Lost of discussion on Blaze and where he fits in (or doesn't fit in as the case may be) but the one point that I have brought up previously is that I will never understand why Steve chose a vocalist who was not capable of singing the bands previous songs live. Most of the classic live Maiden songs Blaze couldn't sing. In terms of other big bands called out above who changed vocalists, (Van Halen, ACDC) the new vocalist was very capable of singing any of the previous material.

[RodrigoAltaf]

I'm the same with Dianno, in that I have never checked out any of his output post Maiden, but I love those first 2 Maiden albums and his contribution to them. Maiden became a different band once Bruce joined but those first 2 albums are classics to me.

Lost of discussion on Blaze and where he fits in (or doesn't fit in as the case may be) but the one point that I have brought up previously is that I will never understand why Steve chose a vocalist who was not capable of singing the bands previous songs live. Most of the classic live Maiden songs Blaze couldn't sing. In terms of other big bands called out above who changed vocalists, (Van Halen, ACDC) the new vocalist was very capable of singing any of the previous material.

Wolfsbane was managed by Sanctuary Music at the time. This means that for Blaze to join Maiden, there would be a lot less bureaucracy and paperwork for them to sign. I know this sucks, but that's how business decisions are made sometimes. Same with Gary Cherone and Van Halen - Extreme and VH were managed by Ray Daniels at the time, so Ray suggested Gary's name to Eddie.

[Zantera]

The biggest hurdle for Blaze from my PoV is that Bruce IS the voice of Iron Maiden and that is hard to overcome.

Perhaps, but Bon Scott and David Lee Roth, while not powerhouse singers like Dickinson, were legendary hard rock singers, and AC/DC and Van Halen did just fine (commercially and with the fanbases, the Roth diehards who weren't gonna accept any new singer in VH notwithstanding) with their immediate replacements, and I have to think that had Maiden gotten a really good singer who was a good fit, the fans would have been accepting.  In my listens of the Blaze albums, I could hear nice moments, almost like there were gems in there somewhere, but they were lost underneath a) the poor sound/mixes, and b) the mediocre vocals.

I think if you compare Maiden and AC/DC in this case, Maiden were already showing signs of declining, or at least hitting a bit of a rough patch. No Prayer for the Dying is a far cry from the albums before it, and even though I personally have grown to like Fear of the Dark a fair bit due to its variety, I think it's fair to say in general it's not a very highly regarded album. So Blaze comes into a band that's already in a weird place and even though I think The X Factor is a cool and unique album, I can see why people dislike it and it doesn't really sound very 'Maiden'. I think the Blaze albums has a couple of gems (Sign of the Cross and Clansman are 2 of my favorites) but it's also a fair argument that these songs got even better with Bruce performing them. AC/DC by comparison felt like they were getting better and better and Highway to Hell was possibly their best album with Bon Scott, so Brian Johnson came into the fold with a band that was more close to their peak.

If you look at the Blaze albums in a vacuum I think he did a decent job but he starts to feel a lot more out of place when you factor in the Maiden legacy as a whole. It's quite painful hearing him sing some of their classic songs (being used to the Bruce versions) and I know some of it isn't his fault - like the band refusing to alter the songs (key/tempo and such) and I think unfortunately the Steve Harris decision to hire Blaze because he was 'different' ended up hitting back at Blaze the most with all the hate he has gotten over the years for not being Bruce. Part of me feels bad for him but I'm also happy Bruce got back. I do think Bruce is the face of Maiden and it didn't feel the same when he was out.

[KevShmev]

That seems like a fair take.

Sometimes, the timing just isn't right. Take Gary Cherone. He could have been a good fit in Van Halen, but he came on board when Eddie was in the mood to do a more experimental album, one that was pretty hit or miss (many say mostly miss).  Had he came on board for an album that was more classic VH-sounding, I think some fans would have warmed up to him a bit more.  Of course, Cherone is an actual really good singer, so that helps, too.

[The Curious Orange]

I think it's a little unfair bringing in Van Halen, they were one of an exceptionally small number of bands I can think of who changed their singer at the peak of their career and it didn't affect their success. For most bands replacing your singer is commercial suicide - think John Bush in Anthrax or John Corabi in Motley Crue. Sure, many people may love those albums, but come on...

[jammindude]

I think lumping in John Bush with Coriabi is completely unfair. Even though MC made a pretty cool album, it truly was a complete commercial disaster.

The Bush era of Anthrax, and SOWN in particular was relatively successful and is (by most) very highly regarded. Granted, it definitely petered out at the end, and bringing Belladonna back gave them a huge boost. But the beginning of the Bush era did not bring a steep decline in popularity from the preceding albums like the MC example. Not by a long shot.

In fact, I would count Anthrax as one of those very rare bands that DID find success with two singers.