The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Kwyjibo]

It's not his range, I've got no problem with that. I find his whole delivery bland and boring, there's no emotion, there's no interesting phrasing and when he tries to sound powerful it just sounds ridiculous to my ears.

He sings in tune, but that is the only positive thing I can think of.

But if you like it, more power to you. Maybe it's a me problem.

[jammindude]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

You can find it on You Tube. If you’re being a completist, you should at least give it a spin.

[Glasser]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

You can find it on You Tube. If you’re being a completist, you should at least give it a spin.

Blaze should be in a Danzig or Misfits tribute band.

[425]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

I love Virus, but I don't think it's a song that's going to change anyone's mind about Blaze or the Blaze era.

[wolfking]

I'll call it now but there's no way DT is matching Senjutsu.

Well it depends. Just on The Alien alone, they surpass the entirety of Senjutsu on energy. If the remaining 5 songs have a lot of creativity and good vocal melodies (claimed by MM but not apparent on the 2 singles) then I'm sure I'll like A View more. And obviously it will sound a lot better.

I see that totally the opposite way.

[TAC]

It seems almost sacrilege to say this, but I can honestly say that the greatest Iron Maiden song ever recorded was not done with Bruce. Although I’m glad that Bruce saw fit to give us a couple live versions.

EDIT - and I should clarify that while I really enjoy the live versions with Bruce, Blaze absolutely KILLS it on the original.

You like Lord Of the Flies that much?

[bosk1]

Kev, is this your first time listening through these albums? 

I only just got into Maiden myself relatively recently (the Final Frontier album cycle).  I didn't really think much of Brave New World at first (and still think it is the weakest of the reunion era), but loved some of the live versions on Rock in Rio.  After checking out the album, I would suggest going to the entire Rock in Rio album before continuing with the studio albums if you have the time for it. 

[Glasser]

I wonder who the 11 other vocalists that auditioned for them. Blaze thought he had no chance of getting the gig and was shocked that he did. It’s such a small blip in Maidens career no matter how you look at it. The “Blaze era” was mediocre at best and I’m being generous. It served its purpose to bring Bruce back and return to form which Senjutsu clearly still shows. I love it start to finish.

[KevShmev]

Kev, is this your first time listening through these albums? 

Basically, yes.  I had heard plenty of Maiden over the years, and always liked a few songs quite a bit, but never really did full album listens, largely because I was always in the "What I've heard is mostly pretty good, but that's it" camp.  I always kind of had a thought that some day I would take the full plunge, and my friend Matt and I doing deep dives through artists' discographies is what finally made me want to do it.  Doing Maiden (his favorite band) was actually my idea. We have done a bunch of artists of whom we are both fans, and also done a few where I was already a fan and he was largely unfamiliar, so I figured it was time to be on the other side of it and tackle one of his bands, so to speak, so I suggested we give Maiden a go, and here we are.  I am honestly not surprised I am enjoying a lot of it as much as I am; it was just a matter of committing the time to listen to all of the albums like I am doing now.

 
I only just got into Maiden myself relatively recently (the Final Frontier album cycle).  I didn't really think much of Brave New World at first (and still think it is the weakest of the reunion era), but loved some of the live versions on Rock in Rio.  After checking out the album, I would suggest going to the entire Rock in Rio album before continuing with the studio albums if you have the time for it.

Actually, hearing a few of the Brave New World songs was a bit part of what inspired me to suggest this journey (I have had maybe 25 songs in my iTunes by them for years, given to me by another friend).  I heard The Wicker Man and Ghost of the Navigator, thought both were really good, so I thought, "Okay, now is the time." 

I am not a big live album guy, but I will check that out eventually, not while in the midst of doing the studio run. 

[jammindude]

It seems almost sacrilege to say this, but I can honestly say that the greatest Iron Maiden song ever recorded was not done with Bruce. Although I’m glad that Bruce saw fit to give us a couple live versions.

EDIT - and I should clarify that while I really enjoy the live versions with Bruce, Blaze absolutely KILLS it on the original.

You like Lord Of the Flies that much?

Oh you! Why I oughta…

 

[Mladen]

I completely agree with that take on Sign of the cross. It's not a surprise, though, I tend to agree with people that quote Rush songs in their signatures.

[WardySI]

Love The X Factor.  Can appreciate why many struggled but thankfully I didn’t judge X Factor based on a pre-conceived idea of what Maiden should or shouldn’t be.

While was surprised they released the record sounding like it did, and fer sure there was far too much repetition, long bass intros and too often tries to be too progressive (always frustrated with the stop start Fortunes Of War get on with it already because it's otherwise fantastic), and of course Blaze being in a completely different place vocally I found it hard to understand why the band had him sing in a register he often sounded uncomfortable with particularly given how great he then sounded when singing in his comfort range for Silicon Messiah (a release burried by the shadow of Brave New World but an overlooked gem in my books!), I was drawn to it regardless!

The thing is I found great comfort in X Factor's dark and brooding stories, its many emotions, anger, frustration and loss, and personally think the performances and its rawness (of sorts) perfectly captured those emotions. In the sense of a perfect vocal Blaze doesn't sound great, and following Bruce Vocal extroidinaire only accentuated Blaze's shortfalls, but Blaze owned that record regardless.   Anyone doubting his abilities need look no further than those first couple Blaze albums and his lates War Within Me.

Anyway, while would never try arguing it's Maiden's finest hour I would absolutely argue X Factor an essential and worthy peice of the Iron Maiden catalog!


Sidenote - Hey jammindude did you pick up Blaze's War Within Me?  I'd argue it's his best release since Silicon Messiah (Tenth Dimmension and his Trilogy worth the time too of course) \m/

[TAC]

War Within Me is awesome!!!


My fave from Blaze is Promise And Terror.

[RodrigoAltaf]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

You can find it on You Tube. If you’re being a completist, you should at least give it a spin.

Wasn't Virus recorded between X Factor and Virtual XI?

[WardySI]

War Within Me is awesome!!!

My fave from Blaze is Promise And Terror.

Yes that's another awesome record!  Actually liked that one a little better than its predecessor The Man Who Would Not Die (for which Bruce interviewed him on his then radio segment or whatever it was!) but another cool record

Promise And Terror's finale of The Trace Of Things through Comfortable In Darkness was quite excellent!

[jammindude]

I completely agree with that take on Sign of the cross. It's not a surprise, though, I tend to agree with people that quote Rush songs in their signatures.

[WardySI]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

You can find it on You Tube. If you’re being a completist, you should at least give it a spin.

Wasn't Virus recorded between X Factor and Virtual XI?

Yes you're correct.  Recorded and as jammindude said was released in 96 on their Best Of The Best collection, 2yrs before they released Virtual XI.  It was dark and more suited to XFactor than Virtual hence why it probably didn't get rereleased as a Virtual XI track 

[jammindude]

There is one track you are skipping. The last song recorded with Blaze was “Virus” which only appeared on Best of the Beast which is now out of print.

You can find it on You Tube. If you’re being a completist, you should at least give it a spin.

Wasn't Virus recorded between X Factor and Virtual XI?

Ya…sorry. Had to look it up but you are correct

[KevShmev]

Love The X Factor.  Can appreciate why many struggled but thankfully I didn’t judge X Factor based on a pre-conceived idea of what Maiden should or shouldn’t be.

I did not either.  I have no problem when a band does different stuff and thinks outside the box.  Quite a few of the songs on both The X Factor and Virtual XI seemed like they had a lot of potential, but the combination of the poor mixes (they sounded like they were going for that 90s dirty sound, but took it too far) and Bayley's poor vocals made them difficult listens for me.  Firing that guy and getting Dickinson back was the smartest move they could have possibly made.

[WardySI]

Love The X Factor.  Can appreciate why many struggled but thankfully I didn’t judge X Factor based on a pre-conceived idea of what Maiden should or shouldn’t be.

I did not either.  I have no problem when a band does different stuff and thinks outside the box.  Quite a few of the songs on both The X Factor and Virtual XI seemed like they had a lot of potential, but the combination of the poor mixes (they sounded like they were going for that 90s dirty sound, but took it too far) and Bayley's poor vocals made them difficult listens for me.  Firing that guy and getting Dickinson back was the smartest move they could have possibly made.

Oh fer sure, don't get me wrong, a re-formed Maiden was the smartest and most logical decision and one of greatest things to happen for the band and IMO metal at that time 😉

But those Blaze albums have their place and am grateful for them regardless 🤘

[Stadler]

Love The X Factor.  Can appreciate why many struggled but thankfully I didn’t judge X Factor based on a pre-conceived idea of what Maiden should or shouldn’t be.

I did not either.  I have no problem when a band does different stuff and thinks outside the box.  Quite a few of the songs on both The X Factor and Virtual XI seemed like they had a lot of potential, but the combination of the poor mixes (they sounded like they were going for that 90s dirty sound, but took it too far) and Bayley's poor vocals made them difficult listens for me.  Firing that guy and getting Dickinson back was the smartest move they could have possibly made.

Yeah, I'm not enamored of either Blaze album either (though I like the guy a lot), but it's not a function of "pre-conceived notions".  I've loved most of the other turns the band has made and feel they are now making their best music as a collective.  (I think the only other "development" I haven't liked was Bruce's vocal adjustment for NPFTD and FOTD). It's just that what I want in a metal band isn't there, and there's only 24 hours in a day; I might as well spend that time listening to something that delivers. 

[KevShmev]

Oh fer sure, don't get me wrong, a re-formed Maiden was the smartest and most logical decision and one of greatest things to happen for the band and IMO metal at that time 😉

But those Blaze albums have their place and am grateful for them regardless 🤘

If you enjoy them, that is all that matters. 

Yeah, I'm not enamored of either Blaze album either (though I like the guy a lot), but it's not a function of "pre-conceived notions".  I've loved most of the other turns the band has made and feel they are now making their best music as a collective.  (I think the only other "development" I haven't liked was Bruce's vocal adjustment for NPFTD and FOTD). It's just that what I want in a metal band isn't there, and there's only 24 hours in a day; I might as well spend that time listening to something that delivers.

Exactly.   Looks like Maiden has 17 studio albums, and I am through 11 so far (working on Brave New World this morning!), and the two with Bayley are easily the two least best, so if we can assume that the remaining six are all better (all they need to be is solid to be better, quite frankly), why waste time on the 16th and 17th best studio albums?  There is too much music and not enough time to get to it all. Hell, Rush is my favorite band and I rarely listen to what I consider their two or three least best albums, so that won't be happening with Iron Maiden either. 

[TAC]

So you never listen to Power Windows?

[KevShmev]

So you never listen to Power Windows?

[425]

It's pretty inarguable that the production on the Blaze albums is not good, so if that plays an important role in someone liking an album, they're obviously not going to like those albums. And Blaze has a pretty distinct and unusual voice (this is why I don't get calling him generic; who sounds like he does?), so if someone doesn't like his voice, they're obviously not going to like those albums. There's nothing wrong with that, and it makes sense to me even though I really like both albums.

Where I get annoyed is when people make abusive comments toward Blaze (or Janick for that matter), or, to a lesser degree, act like there was nothing going on on those albums that was good or like those albums didn't lay a lot of the groundwork for the albums that came after them. (To the extent that he was one of the three main songwriters on those albums and a couple of songs on Brave New World, Blaze deserves his share of credit for Maiden's progressive turn.)

[Glasser]

So you never listen to Power Windows?

Are you saying Blaze should have sang on Power Windows? Maybe a Rick Rubin production?

[DoctorAction]

Blaze has anything but a generic voice. There were many issues with XF and VXI (I never listen to them anymore) but his voice wasn't one of them, afaic.

[KevShmev]

I guess I could have used the words "shitty" or "crappy" instead, but I was trying to be nice by using words like "bland,"  "generic" and "poor."

[DoctorAction]

Ah. I see. It's not what I feel but I hear what you're saying. 

[425]

I mean, I feel like it's a Geddy Lee or Claudio Sanchez situation. A very unusual voice that some people can't stand and others like.

[KevShmev]

I posted a ton of positive feedback about the 80s stuff and got occasional feedback, yet I post some criticism about two albums that appear, no matter what corner of the internet you look, to be the band's two least popular albums, and here comes the pushback and nonstop chatter. 

In other words, I should just post criticism about the rest going forward if I want to generate any more convo about my journey. 

[425]

The Blaze albums are among their least popular albums, but they (especially The X Factor) also have a small contingent of ardent defenders. Plus a lot of the criticism of those albums, historically and still today, has been very toxic. Blaze took a lot of personal abuse for "ruining" Iron Maiden.

None of that is the fault of anyone like you who dislikes those albums but isn't toxic about it, but the general atmosphere has led to a bit of wagon circling and touchiness among supporters of Blaze and those albums. And, yes, a hope that people who are new to the band will see what we do in those albums.

The same thing goes on to a lesser extent with the six reunion albums, which are generally held in higher regard, but still receive their share of negativity, some of it toxic (Janick, also, has apparently "ruined" Iron Maiden). So if you're critical of those, yeah, you'll get some pushback there, too. But on the other side, if you like those albums, I'll be thrilled and I'll be interested in seeing what your favorites are.

It's also just sort of in the nature of things that if you praise the songs and albums that are popularly praised, people have less to discuss. I think the comments you made about the 80s albums that got the most chatter were about Powerslave, where you praised a part of the album that some people, myself included, don't think is all that great. I think if you'd come out of the 80s albums and said, "these are great, and my favorite songs are Innocent Exile, Gangland, Sun and Steel, Losfer Words and Deja Vu," that would've generated some additional discussion because those would be unusual choices.

[wolfking]

I won't get into TXF, but many know where I stand on it.

[darkshade]

To me, the 4 albums from NPFTD through VXI is the band's rough period, but there are gems in there as well.

The best songs on those albums are good songs and just as good as any other good Maiden songs, but if you're a casual fan, you're not missing too much; other than Fear of the Dark the song, which is a Maiden classic, but it's always better live anyway, the Live/Dead One version is the definitive version imo. Be Quick or Be Dead, The Fugitive, Sign of the Cross, and The Clansman are highly underrated songs from this period.

[wolfking]

Am I the only one that finds FOTD (the song) overrated?