The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[Glasser]

Weeks ago I saw insanely awful and flat out abusive comments on Senjutsu. I listened to the first single, I liked it (didn’t love it at first) as this other forum set the bar LOW. When the album came out I listened all the way through and was hooked. It’s different but I’m glad they didn’t try recreating older classics and the outcome is excellent to my ears. There’s something very mature and organic about it and it flows nicely. I like this better than AMoLaD and BoS even though I enjoy them both.

[NoseofNicko]

It will be interesting to hear a fresh take on them. The Blaze albums are especially divisive with many either liking both or not even bothering with either. I feel I might be in the minority in that I put TXF in the top 5, but VXI as a thunderous turd.

Love TXF but find VXI pretty crappy.

[425]

I think Virtual XI shows some clear growing pains but is ultimately a good album that gets way more hate than it deserves. But I arrive at that opinion starting from a place of loving post-VXI Maiden musically and Blaze Bayley as a singer, and of not much minding repetition in Maiden's music. It's a bit of an odd comparison, but I feel about VXI almost the way I feel about WDADU. I can point clearly to the flaws in both, but I adore them because they have a lot of legitimately excellent music and they clearly prefigure spectacular things to come.

I put both Blaze albums far, far above the other two 90s albums. They deserve it IMO just on the fact that most of NPftD and FotD feel like a regression, while TXF and VXI are the start of something new and wonderful.

[nobloodyname]

Agreed. And I'd contend that without the reinvention taking place through The X Factor and Virtual XI, latter day Iron Maiden would be very different and may not even exist.

I just don't get the hate for Virtual XI. Yes, there's boundless repetition in the lyrics but the music itself is excellent.

The X Factor remains a top five or so album for me.

[Zydar]

HUGE fan of Seventh Son here. As I said earlier, it currently sits in my Maiden top 3.

It's my favourite Maiden album ever, and Somewhere In Time is a close 2nd. I love that period, and don't mind the addition of synths.

[wolfking]

Educated Fool, Two Worlds, Clansman, Lightning, all killer tunes.  Educated Fool probably my fav on VXI.

[TAC]

The Educated Fool needs the Bruce treatment .  That’s a great tune.

[MirrorMask]

Lighting Strikes Twice should have had just a minor change in the chorus:

Maybe lightning strikes twice,
Maybe lightning strikes twice
Maybe lightning strikes twice,
Maybe lighting STRIKES!!!

Not that it saves the repetition problem but it has more punch.

[wolfking]

The Educated Fool needs the Bruce treatment .  That’s a great tune.

Would love to hear that.

[425]

Educated Fool, Two Worlds, Clansman, Lightning, all killer tunes.  Educated Fool probably my fav on VXI.

I really like The Educated Fool, and I think When Two Worlds Collide is criminally overlooked. Blaze sounds so good on that one.

I actually like all eight songs. Some of them are just somewhat more flawed than others.

[cramx3]

If you removed The Angel and The Gambler, V11 all of the sudden becomes a solid album  I hate that song so much it makes me rank the album the worst in the catalog, but the reality is, for me, it's just that one song that ruins the album. 

The Educated Fool needs the Bruce treatment .  That’s a great tune.

Would love to hear that.

Yup, I think this is the best song on V11 and would probably work really well live with Bruce singing.

[Dream Team]

Moving along in my journey, although I really liked a few songs and a lot of moments from others, I thought Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was kind of a mess on the first listen, but the second listen was a lot better.  Moonchild was instantly badass, though.

I have to admit I am getting a little nervous as I know the 90's albums are coming next. I am sensing rough times ahead. 

Your spider-sense is working well, although there are some gems on those next 2 Bruce albums.

[Mladen]

Moving along in my journey, although I really liked a few songs and a lot of moments from others, I thought Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was kind of a mess on the first listen, but the second listen was a lot better.  Moonchild was instantly badass, though.

I have to admit I am getting a little nervous as I know the 90's albums are coming next. I am sensing rough times ahead. 

It will be interesting to hear a fresh take on them. The Blaze albums are especially divisive with many either liking both or not even bothering with either. I feel I might be in the minority in that I put TXF in the top 5, but VXI as a thunderous turd. But you’ve got two so-so Bruce albums to get through before you get to the Blaze albums anyway. l

This, especially the bolded. The X Factor does have a hardcore fanbase nowadays, even though it was pretty much rejected when it came out. There are people that like the remaining three albums as well, but the general concensus is that those are the bottom tier Maiden albums for the most part, with the exceptions of several songs here and there.

[Herrick]

What do you mangs think of the recent remasters of Maiden albums?

[pg1067]

Moving along in my journey, although I really liked a few songs and a lot of moments from others, I thought Seventh Son of a Seventh Son was kind of a mess on the first listen, but the second listen was a lot better.  Moonchild was instantly badass, though.

Seventh Son, as a whole, has never clicked for me.  I recall hearing Can I Play with Madness as the first "single" on the radio.  It was Maiden, so it didn't suck, but there was a fair amount of "what the fuck was that?"  Moonchild is definitely kick ass, and the title track is almost certainly a top five Maiden track for me, but the quality goes down precipitously from there.  The Evil that Men do is is pretty good, but lyrically, the pre-chorus and chorus are lazy and awful and drag down what is otherwise some good melodies.  Only the Good Die Young is just ok.  Infinite Dreams, The Prophecy and The Clairvoyant are probably all bottom ten '80s Maiden songs (right down there with Twilight Zone).

[Stadler]

I'm with you on the head-scratching of CIPWM? (we used to sing "Can I Make A Sandwich!") but I LOVE The Clairvoyant and Infinite Dreams.

Switching gears, I don't quite get the hate for TA&TG.  Then again, I think the "repetition!" complaint is way over blown too, but that's me. 

I don't care for the  Blaze records all that much, but it's not like they are "bad" or anything. By any other group, I think they would solid '90s records.

[425]

I really like The Angel and the Gambler. I think it has a cool stadium-rock vibe, and Blaze tears it up. I don't mind the length or the repetition. I know not every Maiden fan is taken with The Red and the Black, but for those who are: I think the road to The Red and the Black runs straight through The Angel and the Gambler.

On Can I Play with Madness, someone I know misheard it as "Can I play with magnets?" and that's what it is to me now. I think it's a bit of a strange song, though not a bad one. Definitely drags down Seventh Son on the whole, though, because the other seven songs are all really good to great. Contra pg, I'd put The Clairvoyant and Infinite Dreams down as top ten 80s Maiden songs.

[nick_z]

Infinite Dreams, The Prophecy and The Clairvoyant are probably all bottom ten '80s Maiden songs (right down there with Twilight Zone).

 

Where is this strong dislike for Infinite Dreams from?    It's such an amazing song to me - the whole, um, dreamy atmosphere at the beginning, the melodies, the solos (fantastic drumming under the two melodic lead breaks too)...

[Zydar]

The Clairvoyant is awesomeness.

[cramx3]

Infinite Dreams is great IMO, The Clairvoyant and Can I Play With Madness I like much less, but I don't dislike either.

[DoctorAction]

Only The Good Die Young is one of my top Maiden tunes. Love it.

[Herrick]

Only The Good Die Young is one of my top Maiden tunes. Love it.

I love that one 

[Zydar]

I love every song on Seventh Son except The Prophecy. Could never get into that one. Cool outro though.

[425]

Only The Good Die Young is one of my top Maiden tunes. Love it.

I love that one 

This might be the most underrated 80s Maiden song, IMO. It's really, really good.

[pg1067]

Infinite Dreams, The Prophecy and The Clairvoyant are probably all bottom ten '80s Maiden songs (right down there with Twilight Zone).

 

Where is this strong dislike for Infinite Dreams from?    It's such an amazing song to me - the whole, um, dreamy atmosphere at the beginning, the melodies, the solos (fantastic drumming under the two melodic lead breaks too)...

Where is it coming from?  There's no under the surface motivation.  It's just an opinion that formed when I first heard the song in 1988 and which hasn't changed over the past 33+ years.  It sounds like Maiden's attempt to write a song for a Vegas lounge singer.  The part where he sings about someone chasing a caribou is better, but it's still kind of blah and mid-tempo (and yes, I know that's not really what he sings....).  The tempo change at 1:44 is awkward and feels like they just sandwiched two ideas together without any consideration of trying to blend them.  The vocal lines are all rather monotonous.  The up-tempo triplet feel section starting at 3:14 isn't bad (especially when the harmony guitars start), but it doesn't seem to fit the rest of the song.  If the rest of the song fit with that section it would be a MUCH better song.

As for the Clairvoyant, the intro is boring AF.  The verses are pretty good, but the chorus sounds like something they lifted from a child's nursery rhyme (not lyrically, obviously).

[Stadler]

The Clairvoyant is awesomeness.

It might even have made my top 20 (at least of pre-reunion songs).

[bosk1]

This should come as no surprise since I have posted along these lines in the past, but here is my take on Maiden's discography, album by album (not ranked):

LOVE these releases:
-Number of the Beast
-Piece of Mind
-Somewhere in Time
-Dance of Death
-The Final Frontier
-The Book of Souls

Like these releases:
-Powerslave
-Brave New World
-A Matter of Life and Death

Don't like:
-Killers
-Seventh Son

Don't have/have not listened to:
-Iron Maiden
-No Prayer
-Fear of the Dark
-The X Factor
-Virtual XI
-Senjutsu

Basically, I love most of the '80s "classic" albums, and most of the reunion albums.  I don't dislike any of the Bruce albums I have heard, other than Seventh Son, which, other than a couple of songs, does nothing for me whatsoever. 

I don't really care for what I've heard of Maiden with singers other than Bruce (although I like those songs that I've heard live where Bruce sings them and they have more energy in a live setting).  As far as getting those other albums, I don't really feel an urgent need to be a completeist.  Senjutsu doesn't count, as I plan to get that (in fact, it is supposed to arrive tomorrow).  As for the rest, I may eventually get around to getting the two '90s Bruce albums that I don't have.  Just not much of a priority.  Even less of a priority than that would be the Blaze albums.  And then Iron Maiden being much, much less of a priority.  Honestly, I don't know that I'll ever have enough of a desire to get any of these. 

That said, I'm doing a listen-through on those albums that I haven't heard.  X Factor is first.  I am about 3/4 through it as I type this.  My general reactions:  I don't hate it, and it is actually mostly better than I was expecting given what I have heard.  Here is the major hurdle I have:  I have heard Bruce do some of these songs, and they sound much better to me in a live setting.  That is partly due to the music just having more energy in general, and Bruce just being a more powerful singer and having an unmatchable live presence.  And even though that comparison only holds for the small number of songs I have heard them do live with Bruce, it taints my enjoyment of the entire album, as I can't help but think how much better they would probably sound with Bruce on vocals.  There are definitely songs where Blaze does a passable job.  But in other places, I just don't feel that he brings enough energy or range to make them sound as good as they could.  The production also seems a bit flat and sucks the energy out of the songs a bit.  (I feel similarly to a lot of Epica songs, where their studio albums just sound flat and not as heavy or energetic as they should, even though those same songs are amazing in a live setting)  But I am definitely hearing some things I like on this album--more than I would have thought.  I'm liking quite a few of the tracks Bruce has not sung on.  Blood on the World's Hands is a standout to my uninformed ears.  But on the ones Bruce has done live, it's just too much of a hurdle for me to enjoy these songs.  They just sound like they are missing too much.

[nick_z]

Where is it coming from?  There's no under the surface motivation.  It's just an opinion that formed when I first heard the song in 1988 and which hasn't changed over the past 33+ years.  It sounds like Maiden's attempt to write a song for a Vegas lounge singer.  The part where he sings about someone chasing a caribou is better, but it's still kind of blah and mid-tempo (and yes, I know that's not really what he sings....).  The tempo change at 1:44 is awkward and feels like they just sandwiched two ideas together without any consideration of trying to blend them.  The vocal lines are all rather monotonous.  The up-tempo triplet feel section starting at 3:14 isn't bad (especially when the harmony guitars start), but it doesn't seem to fit the rest of the song.  If the rest of the song fit with that section it would be a MUCH better song.

I wasn't implying there had to be a non-music related reason  it's the bottom 10 80s song statement that caught my eye (given how much I enjoy it instead),  so I was just curious about what it is in the song you dislike so much ...and you were pretty clear about it 

[Herrick]

Bosk, I agree about Blaze Bayley. I still do not understand why they chose him while still intending to play older material. I watched a little documentary about that era of Maiden and Blaze seems like a really cool dude. That must've been a big factor as to why he was chosen but his singing...I'm just not into it, even on the albums they made with him.

[cramx3]

The production also seems a bit flat and sucks the energy out of the songs a bit. 

This is definitely what kills the X factor for most people, myself included although I acknowledge that the songs themselves are pretty good.

[bosk1]

@Herrick:  Yeah, I'm trying to give Blaze a fair shake and not be unduly influenced by the fact that I know this is Maiden and he is not Bruce.  And that is hard to do.  But I'm finding that, that aside, I just don't care for his singing style--at least, not in this band.  Even the songs on X Factor and, from what I am hearing at the beginning of Virtual XI, don't seem like a good fit for him.  I keep finding myself silently screaming at the player, "Come ON, Blaze!  I really WANT to like you.  SHOW me SOMETHING!!!"  Now, it could very well be that, as with Charlie Dominicci in DT, if I heard him in a different setting with songs he had a hand in writing that are written specifically with a view toward his voice, I might come to a different conclusion about him as a singer.  But I'm just not liking what I am hearing of him in Maiden.

[425]

I've been listening recently to some of the acoustic Iron Maiden covers that Thomas Zwijsen has done with Blaze singing, and I really got into the Judgment of Heaven one. It may not convince Blaze skeptics, but it's a really cool performance for those who like the man. Just an acoustic guitar, a violin, and Blaze, in a church.

Also, it may be a controversial opinion at this point, but I like Blaze better than Bruce on Lord of the Flies and Sign of the Cross—although I think of Rock in Rio as the definitive version of SotC because the production is much better. It's tough, though, because I also like the album tempo better than the RiR tempo.

[MirrorMask]

@Herrick:  Yeah, I'm trying to give Blaze a fair shake and not be unduly influenced by the fact that I know this is Maiden and he is not Bruce.  And that is hard to do.  But I'm finding that, that aside, I just don't care for his singing style--at least, not in this band.  Even the songs on X Factor and, from what I am hearing at the beginning of Virtual XI, don't seem like a good fit for him.  I keep finding myself silently screaming at the player, "Come ON, Blaze!  I really WANT to like you.  SHOW me SOMETHING!!!"  Now, it could very well be that, as with Charlie Dominicci in DT, if I heard him in a different setting with songs he had a hand in writing that are written specifically with a view toward his voice, I might come to a different conclusion about him as a singer.  But I'm just not liking what I am hearing of him in Maiden.

Sounds like you really need to check out Silicon Messiah and The Tenth Dimension, his two first solo albums.

[cramx3]

@Herrick:  Yeah, I'm trying to give Blaze a fair shake and not be unduly influenced by the fact that I know this is Maiden and he is not Bruce.  And that is hard to do.  But I'm finding that, that aside, I just don't care for his singing style--at least, not in this band.  Even the songs on X Factor and, from what I am hearing at the beginning of Virtual XI, don't seem like a good fit for him.  I keep finding myself silently screaming at the player, "Come ON, Blaze!  I really WANT to like you.  SHOW me SOMETHING!!!"  Now, it could very well be that, as with Charlie Dominicci in DT, if I heard him in a different setting with songs he had a hand in writing that are written specifically with a view toward his voice, I might come to a different conclusion about him as a singer.  But I'm just not liking what I am hearing of him in Maiden.

Sounds like you really need to check out Silicon Messiah and The Tenth Dimension, his two first solo albums.

Or just go to his latest, War Within Me.  I think it's really good. (not that there's anything wrong with the albums you suggested, both good as well) It's amazing how much better he sounds on his solo albums.  Steve Harris didn't give him any help at all between the way he sounds on the album and then making him sing older songs that just don't work with his voice and range. 

[Stadler]

@Herrick:  Yeah, I'm trying to give Blaze a fair shake and not be unduly influenced by the fact that I know this is Maiden and he is not Bruce.  And that is hard to do.  But I'm finding that, that aside, I just don't care for his singing style--at least, not in this band.  Even the songs on X Factor and, from what I am hearing at the beginning of Virtual XI, don't seem like a good fit for him.  I keep finding myself silently screaming at the player, "Come ON, Blaze!  I really WANT to like you.  SHOW me SOMETHING!!!"  Now, it could very well be that, as with Charlie Dominicci in DT, if I heard him in a different setting with songs he had a hand in writing that are written specifically with a view toward his voice, I might come to a different conclusion about him as a singer.  But I'm just not liking what I am hearing of him in Maiden.

That's 100% me.  I've heard so many good stories about him being a cool guy and what not, but I just have a hard time connecting with his singing on the two Maiden records.