The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[TAC]

I love Killers. It's pretty much my favourite Maiden album joined with whichever one of NOTB/PW/SIT/SSOASS is flicking my switches that week.

Permanent Waves?

[Glasser]

So, the CD I bought at Target with the lenticular cover and the booklet has a couple blank pages! Not that I care a lot, but annoying to be missing some lyrics.

You could jump on the back of this: https://box.ironmaiden.com/ Be quick, though.

Thank you! 🙂

[KevShmev]

There’s nothing as good as Phantom on Killers, but the songs and the vocals are much stronger.

My first impression of Killer is not far from this. Seems like the highs on the debut are higher than anything on Killers.  I didn't think there was as much variety on the second album either outside of Prodigal Son, but that could just be my first impression.  Vocals seem better, yes.

[TAC]

Didn't dislike it as such, far from it but am warming more to The Parchment now, its second half is superior so it was a little more effort required but that last few minutes is simply magnificent 

The Parchment has Bruce's best moments on the album for me. "Cry, we are ready to believe" and "Take me theeeeeeeeeere" are incredible.

Have you warmed more to the album mate since your first couple of listens?

Not really, and I did try hard. But those two moments on The Parchment are cool, as are portions of Hell on Earth and the whole WOTW. Other than that, I still think this is a largely uneventful and unnecessary album. But will I be at the show when they play in my city?Yes! Will I spend my hard earned dollars on merch at the same show? Also yes!

Wow, that's quite a statement. I mean, what album is necessary?

I will say that only one Reunion Era album grabbed me right away....TFF. This album has been almost as immediate.

[DoctorAction]

I love Killers. It's pretty much my favourite Maiden album joined with whichever one of NOTB/PWPS/SIT/SSOASS is flicking my switches that week.

Permanent Waves?

  Corrected. Thank you, sir.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Didn't dislike it as such, far from it but am warming more to The Parchment now, its second half is superior so it was a little more effort required but that last few minutes is simply magnificent 

The Parchment has Bruce's best moments on the album for me. "Cry, we are ready to believe" and "Take me theeeeeeeeeere" are incredible.

Have you warmed more to the album mate since your first couple of listens?

Not really, and I did try hard. But those two moments on The Parchment are cool, as are portions of Hell on Earth and the whole WOTW. Other than that, I still think this is a largely uneventful and unnecessary album. But will I be at the show when they play in my city?Yes! Will I spend my hard earned dollars on merch at the same show? Also yes!

Wow, that's quite a statement. I mean, what album is necessary?

I will say that only one Reunion Era album grabbed me right away....TFF. This album has been almost as immediate.

Glad you're enjoying it, man.

[Dedalus]

There’s nothing as good as Phantom on Killers, but the songs and the vocals are much stronger.

My first impression of Killer is not far from this. Seems like the highs on the debut are higher than anything on Killers.  I didn't think there was as much variety on the second album either outside of Prodigal Son, but that could just be my first impression.  Vocals seem better, yes.

I (and Paul Di'anno, according to himself) think the debut is far superior to Killers. First time I heard Killers I was very disappointed, even because the debut is one of my favorite records.

Of IM's first 7 albums, Killers is certainly my least favorite.

[425]

One of the factors on Killers is that much of the album was written before the debut came out. They built up a pretty significant catalogue of songs during the 1975-79 period, and those songs are split between the first two albums. According to wiki, only Murders in the Rue Morgue and Prodigal Son were written new for Killers. That's why, to me, there's a real sense in which Killers feels like the "leftovers," although they obviously kept back some of their best songs for that album—Wrathchild, for instance.

On the other hand, Killers has Adrian Smith, which is significant.

[wolfking]

Didn't dislike it as such, far from it but am warming more to The Parchment now, its second half is superior so it was a little more effort required but that last few minutes is simply magnificent 

The Parchment has Bruce's best moments on the album for me. "Cry, we are ready to believe" and "Take me theeeeeeeeeere" are incredible.

Have you warmed more to the album mate since your first couple of listens?

Not really, and I did try hard. But those two moments on The Parchment are cool, as are portions of Hell on Earth and the whole WOTW. Other than that, I still think this is a largely uneventful and unnecessary album. But will I be at the show when they play in my city?Yes! Will I spend my hard earned dollars on merch at the same show? Also yes!

That's a shame mate.

[DoctorAction]

One of the factors on Killers is that much of the album was written before the debut came out. They built up a pretty significant catalogue of songs during the 1975-79 period, and those songs are split between the first two albums. According to wiki, only Murders in the Rue Morgue and Prodigal Son were written new for Killers. That's why, to me, there's a real sense in which Killers feels like the "leftovers," although they obviously kept back some of their best songs for that album—Wrathchild, for instance.

On the other hand, Killers has Adrian Smith, which is significant.

That's really interesting. Didn't know that. I love it. It's punchy, fast, aggressive, the whole band are totally into it. It sounds amazing. The vocals are great. Start to end quality.

[TAC]

So I finally had a Sun And Steel lager. I have heard that it wasn't that good, but I was able to buy a single can yesterday. I didn't love it, but I was expecting the worst. I made it through no problem. At least I now have the can added to my collection.

[425]

Today I was listening to Senjutsu (again) and thinking that the two short songs on here (Stratego and DoFP) would rank pretty high for me in the reunion era.

It led me to figure out that you can split the reunion-era songs into three approximately equal groups of <6 minutes, 6-8 minutes, and >8 minutes, and I thought it would be cool to ask people to try to name their top five reunion songs in each of those ranges.

Here are my attempts:

<6 minutes:
1. The Alchemist
2. The Wicker Man
3. Mother of Mercy
4. Montsegur
5. Stratego

6-8 minutes:
1. Starblind
2. Lord of Light
3. The Longest Day
4. Face in the Sand
5. Out of the Silent Planet

8+ minutes
1. Paschendale
2. The Talisman
3. Isle of Avalon
4. For the Greater Good of God
5. The Legacy
(this is an insane list... I wonder how The Parchment will grow over time relative to it...)

[TAC]

Cool idea..working on it now..

OK, got it..

< 6 minutes
1. Coming Home
2. Montesegur
3. Mother Of Mercy
4. The Alchemist
5. The Fallen Angel

6-8 minutes
1. Lord Of Light
2. Starblind
3. Brave New World
4. Darkest Hour
5. The Great Unknown


> 8 minutes
1. The Talisman
2. For The Greater Good Of God
3. The Parchment
4. Hell On Earth
5. The Red And The Black


6. The Thin Line Between Love And Hate
7. Dance Of Death
8. When The Wild Wind Blows
9. The Book Of Souls
10. Empire Of The Clouds

[Dedalus]

< 6 minutes

1. Montségur
2. The Wicker Man
3. Coming Home
4. The Pilgrim
5. Out of the Shadows

6-8 minutes

1. These Colours Don't Run
2. Ghost of the Navigator
3. The Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg
4. The Time Machine
5. The Writing on the Wall

> 8 minutes

1. Dance of Death
2. Paschendale
3. Empire of the Clouds
4. The Talisman
5. When The Wild Wind Blows

[425]

3. Mother Of Mercy

So awesome that you put it, too. I feel like I never see any love for this song, but I think it's just great. This verse is amazing:

I don't hold with bad religion, understand what's underneath it
Now I come to think of it, I just don't hold at all you know it
You say you are a holy man, but what is it you do?
From where I stand it's nothing but a hollow man I see

And then final section, too.

6. The Thin Line Between Love And Hate
7. Dance Of Death
8. When The Wild Wind Blows
9. The Book Of Souls
10. Empire Of The Clouds

Alright, well, if you're going to cheat, then I am, too! 


8+ minutes
1. Paschendale
2. The Talisman
3. Isle of Avalon
4. For the Greater Good of God
5. The Legacy

6. The Parchment
7. When the Wild Wind Blows
8. Hell on Earth
9. Dance of Death
10. Brighter Than a Thousand Suns

[IDontNotDoThings]

<6 minutes:
1. Coming Home
2. The Wicker Man
3. The Alchemist
4. Montsegur
5. Different World

6-8 minutes:
1. Blood Brothers
2. The Longest Day
3. Journeyman
4. Out Of The Silent Planet
5. The Great Unknown

>8 minutes:
1. Empire Of The Clouds
2. The Legacy
3. The Thin Line Between Love & Hate
4. Isle Of Avalon
5. Dream Of Mirrors

no Senjutsu songs oddly enough, though Hell On Earth came close

[WardySI]

Cool...

-6 minutes:
1. The Wicker Man
2. The Fallen Angel
3. Stratego
4. Different World
5. The Pilgrim


6-8 minutes:
1. Brave New World
2. If Eternity Should Fail
3. Paschendale
4. Starblind
5. These Colours Don't Run


8+ minutes:
1. Lost In A Lost World
2. Hell On Earth
3. The Red And The Black
4. For The Greater Good Of God
5. Where The Wild Wind Blows


Always subject to change of course

[wolfking]

This sounds like fun, I want to play.

>6 minutes

1. Rainmaker
2. Montsegur
3. The Alchemist
4. The Fallen Angel
5. Gates of Tomorrow (not a typo)


6-8 Minutes

1. Starblind
2. Darkest Hour
3. Out of the Silent Planet
4. Blood Brothers
5. Shadows of the Valley


8+ Minutes

1. The Talisman
2. For the Greater Good of God
3. Hell on Earth
4. The Parchment
5. The Red and the Black

[wolfking]

> 8 minutes
1. The Talisman
2. For The Greater Good Of God
3. The Parchment
4. Hell On Earth
5. The Red And The Black

Holy shit!

[The Curious Orange]

Oooo, Oooo, I wanna play -

<6
Rainmaker
Different World
The Wicker Man
Speed of Light
Mother of Mercy

6-8
Brave New World
Reincarnation of Benjamin Breeg
The Writing on the Wall
El Dorado
Blood Brothers

8+
Brighter Than a Thousand Suns
The Parchment
The Nomad
Pachendale
Isle of Avalon

[romdrums]

I love Killers. It's pretty much my favourite Maiden album joined with whichever one of NOTB/PW/SIT/SSOASS is flicking my switches that week.

Permanent Waves?

Power Windows. 

[DoctorAction]

I do like PW more than PW, as it happens. 

[Herrick]

Can we get some love for Nicko? I'm not a person who focuses a lot on drumming, but I really like a lot of his work on this album, and it feels like he's by far the least-discussed member of the band. His playing on the title track really stood out to me.

Just a beast.  His tempos especially on this album seem tight as hell.  I thought he has been a little sloppy on the last couple but this one he's on point.

Exactly. I've found him a bit frustrating since AMOLAD but he's SO good on this one.

I don't have as much listening time as you mangs do on the reunion albums. I haven't noticed any bad playing from McBrain. He always seems on point. I was reading (not sure which album) that they went with a lot of first takes. Perhaps that explains some of the lackluster drumming.

[jammindude]

I was listening to Lost in a Lost World today at work and realized the intro has the exact same melody as Clam Caravan by Spinal Tap and now I can’t unhear it.

https://youtu.be/PVQ2rmSwwUw

[TAC]

The Daily Doug does Hell On Earth..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqYLCSnwhI

[porcacultor]

Since there's trickery afoot, I took a step further and added another category 

< 6 minutes

Montségur
Rainmaker
The Fallen Angel
The Alchemist
Wildest Dreams

6-8 minutes

No More Lies
Face in the Sand
The Longest Day
The Time Machine
Blood Brothers

8-10 minutes

Dance of Death
Paschendale
Dream of Mirrors
Senjutsu
Lost in a Lost World

>10 minutes

Where the Wild Wind Blows
The Red and the Black
Death of the Celts
The Book of Souls
Hell on Earth

[TAC]

How about The Classic Era?
I'm using Bruce only songs.

They only have 3 songs over 8 minutes, so I adjusted the criteria slightly..

< 5 minutes

Children Of Damned
No Prayer For The Dying
Still Life
Run Silent Run Deep
Childhood's End


5-7 minutes

22 Acacia Avenue
Infinite Dreams
Where Eagles Dare
The Prisoner
The Duellists

>7 minutes

Hallowed Be Thy Name
Fear Of The Dark
Caught Somewhere In Time
Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son
Rime Of The Ancient Mariner

[nick_z]

I'm getting behind here...

I was curious about the distribution of reunion era songs across these 3 groups - like 425 said, these are groups of approximately equal size...

If I didn't count stuff wrong:

<6 minutes
20 songs, BOW: 3, DOD: 5, AMOLAD: 3, FF: 3, BOS: 4, S: 2
(if we were to do <5, as TAC was suggesting a few days ago, it'd be 10 songs - or 11 if we were to count Speed of Light, which is 5:01..)
BOW: 3, DOD: 2, AMOLAD: 1, FF: 1, BOS: 1, S: 2

6-8 minutes
20 songs, BOW: 4, DOD: 4, AMOLAD: 4, FF: 2, BOS: 3, S: 3

>8 minutes
22 songs, BNW: 3, DOD: 2, AMOLAD: 3, FF: 5, BOS: 4, S: 5

Mine might go like this at the moment:

<6
1. Rainmaker
2. Montsegur
3. Wicker Man
4. The Pilgrim
5. The Alchemist

(with Coming Home and Days of Future Past coming right behind)

6-8
1. Starblind
2. Ghost of the Navigator
3. The Time Machine
4. Lord of Light
5. Writing on the Wall

>8
1. Dance of Death
2. Paschendale
3. If Eternity Should Fail
4. The Parchment
5. The Talisman

[wolfking]

Haven't gotten tired of this album yet.  Still have it on repeat.

[nick_z]

How about The Classic Era?
I'm using Bruce only songs.

Ok...this is hard...

<5 minutes

Children of the Damned
Flight of Icarus
Aces High
The Evil That Men Do
The Trooper

5-7 minutes

Infinite Dreams
22 Acacia Avenue
Revelations
Moonchild
The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner

>7 minutes

Hallowed Be Thy Name
Caught Somewhere in Time
Powerslave
Rime of the Ancient Mariner
Seventh Son of a Seventh Son

[TAC]

Haven't gotten tired of this album yet.  Still have it on repeat.

Yup. I'm playing it everyday at work.
Today, I also listened to:
A Matter Of Life And Death
Piece Of Mind
Powerslave

[TAC]

So I've been listening to a ton of Iron Maiden over the past couple of weeks. Even as an Old School fan, I find myself reaching for the Reunion Era stuff. I mean, it's all amazing, but most bands' latter day works really pale in comparison to their Classic Eras, but not so with Iron Maiden.


The latest exercise of ranking songs by their time limits proved interesting. There are only three 8+ minute tracks in the Classic Era...Rime, 7th Son, and Alexander.
Yet I couldn't narrow the Reunion 8 minute tracks to less than 10. 

I was thinking of the reasons for this..

1. The evolution of the songwriting, particularly Steve
2. 40-45 minute LPs vs 80 minute CDs
3. Three guitarists, and writing solo spots for each
4. Doing whatever the fuck they want to..

But that last one brings me to this point.. Martin Birch vs Kevin Shirley.

Birch seemed to still maintain an authoritative voice in the recording of the albums, whereas Shirley seems to be basically follow Steve's direction. Shirley seems more of a coordinator and organizer as opposed to what a traditional producer would do.


I don't know...it's just stuff I've been thinking about.

[cramx3]

People seem to call Shirley a Yes Man to Steve.  I've never heard of that from interviews or anything from people inside the band, but it certainly seems likely.  I think a different producer would be looking for some trimming and also a better sound.

[NoseofNicko]

Hey wolfking can you do me a favor and list the older Maiden melodies that some of the melodies in The Parchment and Hell on Earth sound like please? A lot of the melodies in these 2 songs sound really familiar to me but I just can’t remember which older melodies they sound like. You seem really good at remembering what melodies sound like what melodies so that’s why I’m asking you. I would appreciate if you included the time stamps of the melodies too instead of saying "the melody after the chorus" or something.

[TAC]

People seem to call Shirley a Yes Man to Steve.  I've never heard of that from interviews or anything from people inside the band, but it certainly seems likely.  I think a different producer would be looking for some trimming and also a better sound.

Trust me, I have ZERO complaints about the Reunion Era. It is funny how great Piece Of Mind sounds, but to me, it's always about the songs, and they've never been better IMO. Chemistry plays a big part in how the band goes, and with Janick sometimes being a lightning rod, he plays a big part.
But I also I think their relationship with Shirley is underrated.