The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[TAC]

I've said it before but bears repeating:

It's an awful song but the opening riff to Hooks In You is fantastic.

Sure, I think with different lyrics, it wouldn't be too bad.

[wolfking]

I've said it before but bears repeating:

It's an awful song but the opening riff to Hooks In You is fantastic.

Interesting.  I find it pretty generic but different for Maiden.

[wolfking]

Great writeup Nick and thanks for the plug.  Agree with most you said.  If I were rating the Harris songs, Celts is easily the weakest.

Yes. But the A Change Of Seasons intro is growing on me.

Interesting.  I'll listen with that in mind.

Yeah, the first 20-22 seconds or so.

I kind kind of hear this.  Wouldn't have picked it myself but can totally see what you mean.

[TAC]

Was watching a bit of En Vivo tonight.

It's hard to fathom people putting TFF at the bottom of their rankings. Watched The Talisman, When The Wild Wind Blows, and Coming Home. These are three Tier 1 tracks for me. The Talisman is my favorite Reunion Era track. Bruce is amazing on it, and that track is about as hard driving as anything they have.

And while Neal Peart gets fellated all of the time for his lyrics, Bruce's Coming Home might be the best lyric in their catalog.

[wolfking]

That performance of the Talisman is easily one of the greatest performances from the band ever.

A top 5 Maiden song for me too.

[TAC]

Yeah, and after watching a lot of the Book Of Souls Live Chapter and En Vivo recently, Janick really plays a lot more lead than one might realize, but it's not necessarily during a "guitar solo" spot. He is basically playing single note melodies throughout a ton of tracks. In TRATB, he's basically playing lead throughout the whole thing.

I think in some of his solo spots, he's a little guilty of being a bit all over the place, probably more due to finding a different "solo space" from Dave and Adrian. But he has some great pick and note control, even while jumping around like a (affectionatly) fool.

[wolfking]

I never understood the hate for Janick.  I admit as a guitarist, he has been sloppy as fuck and his style is quite one dimensional but he fits the position description IMO.

[Lupton]

I never understood the hate for Janick.  I admit as a guitarist, he has been sloppy as fuck and his style is quite one dimensional but he fits the position description IMO.

I think it depends on how you get into the band. My introduction to Maiden was the Live/Dead combo, so obviously I have no problems with Janick. I can only imagine how painful those records must be to those who don't like him! 

[wolfking]

Groowing up with Adrian during the 80's and then getting No Prayer AND Janick?  Lol, yeah, I can see where people would not take too kindly to him.

[MirrorMask]

And while Neal Peart gets fellated all of the time for his lyrics, Bruce's Coming Home might be the best lyric in their catalog.

That song is fantastic, emotional and poetic. A must have on my muuuuuusic playeeeeer whenever I'm flying (or was flying...? damn Covid). Hearing that song while you're flying is amazing. And yes, I did strech the fingers of my hand to cover countries with my span.

[Stadler]

Has there ever been any reason from the band as to why NPFTD was a back to basics album?  It's reverses the direction they'd been heading since Beast though to Seventh and kind off went back to a Debut/Killers vibe.  Looking at Wiki I do see a small but noticeable decline in sales of each album from that period, was this part of the reason?

I think it's a confluence of things.  Smith left, because he didn't like the direction of the band.  I don't know if that means he didn't like the prog stuff, or the new "streamlined" approach, but something was amiss for him.   Dickinson just did his solo album, which was for all intents and purposes, an AC/DC album, at least as compared to what came before.  Most fans have recognized the clear change in his vocal approach after SSOASS through TM to NPFTD.  His guitar player on that album and tour - Jannick Gers - was now the new guy in Maiden, bringing that sensibility (though he had no writing credits on the record that I recall).   They used a new studio ("The Barn", in Harris' back yard).  There have been a couple interviews where at least Dickinson has said that the idea was not a good one and the sound was "crap".  I don't know if it was sales or not, but the concepts and staging was getting more and more complicated and bloated, and maybe there was a need to sort of strip back the operation, and that was reflected in the music itself. 

[Dream Team]

I never understood the hate for Janick.  I admit as a guitarist, he has been sloppy as fuck and his style is quite one dimensional but he fits the position description IMO.

I think you answered your own question Wolfie!

[cramx3]

Groowing up with Adrian during the 80's and then getting No Prayer AND Janick?  Lol, yeah, I can see where people would not take too kindly to him.

As someone who didn't get into IM until the 2000s, I never thought of it like this.  Now I understand a bit more of the dislike because if I was listening at that time, I might feel the same given the change and new music.  But I personally like him a lot in the band.  And when you get all these bands playing to autotune or protools or whatever, hearing the sloppiness of him live is refreshing in some ways.  You know it's legit and I respect it.  I don't mind it at all.  Also his writing contributions have been great. 

[Stadler]

Groowing up with Adrian during the 80's and then getting No Prayer AND Janick?  Lol, yeah, I can see where people would not take too kindly to him.

As someone who didn't get into IM until the 2000s, I never thought of it like this.  Now I understand a bit more of the dislike because if I was listening at that time, I might feel the same given the change and new music.  But I personally like him a lot in the band.  And when you get all these bands playing to autotune or protools or whatever, hearing the sloppiness of him live is refreshing in some ways.  You know it's legit and I respect it.  I don't mind it at all.  Also his writing contributions have been great.

See, I was there just following when Adrian joined (I got into Maiden with the Number Of The Beast), so to hear what Maiden became between the debut and Killers, and watched, in real time, his contributions to Powerslave and SiT (as well as the b-sides!) it was the whole being more than the sum of the parts.  I was okay with Jannick - I LOVE "A View From The Hill" by Fish - but Tattooed Millionaire wasn't my favorite album of all time (still isn't) so as Maiden became more like that, I liked it less.   It's sort of the "Phil Collins Syndrome".   Phil Collins didn't make Genesis go soft - that was Tony Banks - but the myth persists because Phil's SOLO stuff was softer at the same time.  Jannick joined and the band got gritty and abandoned the prog-ish influences, neither good things for me, and so he was to blame. 

I've come to soften a bit my feelings, but he's always been and likely always be the third of three for me (I'm a Dave guy first and foremost).  Plus I've personally seen him twice now where the band is playing and he's either futzing with his guitar chord (Hartford on the Legacy tour) or futzing around with his strap after twirling his guitar around his neck (Hartford on the shed tour with Dio back in the early 2000's).  it seems a little counter to the Maiden ethos, IMO.

[TAC]

Groowing up with Adrian during the 80's and then getting No Prayer AND Janick?  Lol, yeah, I can see where people would not take too kindly to him.

So I grew up with Adrian in the 80's and I'll give you my take.

I honestly never really followed Iron Maiden and gave their solos much of a thought.
(EDIT: I DID follow Iron Maiden heavily. It was their solos that I never really considered..)

Iron Maiden were different that way in that they operated as a band. It was about the songs and how they were constructed. And Dave and Adrian's strength were working together, creating dual harmonies.

Here's a magazine cover from 1985.



And another..




They were basically a package deal. Even Ronnie Dio called on them to play the harmonies on Stars.


Adrian had come to be my favorite member of the band. I liked that he really presented some songwriting balance to what Steve was doing. I thought the Reach Out b-side was awesome.

While Bruce's solo album seemed like an excuse to burn some energy and see if he could pull it off, ASAP was a far more serious venture. Adrian was carving out his own thing.

I literally remember the moment I heard Adrian left. It was a Friday, at college, and we were about to start partying, and I was reading a CMJ Music Journal that I had grabbed from the school radio station.
I was gutted. Gutted. But as I read it stated that Janick Gers would be taking over. I was pleasantly surprised. He was practically already in the family, having played with Bruce.


I felt Adrian's absence was definitely felt on No Prayer. Janick was only called in I think literally the night before they started recording. There are a lot of things to look at with that album, but I never felt Janick was one of them.
But what I do know is that the tour was amazing. I've already posted about the energy he brought to the band on stage. I saw two shows on that tour and I felt much better about the band, even though their new album was quite weak.

Fear Of The Dark is much stronger And yes, I know it's got a number of filler tracks, but it was the first album they made in the CD age, and a few of those tracks would've been b sides, but since there was room, they were put on. It is what it is. But when I hear a track like Afraid To Shoot Strangers, you can see how well Janick fit in.

I thought the band was set for the 90's with Fear Of The Dark. But then came the news that Bruce was leaving at the end of the tour.

[Stadler]

I have that first magazine somewhere downstairs.

[425]

The Writing on the Wall made so little of an impression on me when I first heard it, but now it puts a smile on my face each time. I think there are two factors at play: It's very well-placed coming right after Stratego on the album, and the master that was put on YouTube just smothered the thing nearly to death.

[TAC]

I'm sure I've posted these once or twice, but because I'm in a Janick mood..


July 22, 1990
The Living Room
Providence RI








January 25, 1991
Civic Center
Providence RI

[Herrick]

I've really tried with the last 3 albums, but all of them have largely left me underwhelmed and limp.  Nothing stands out.  The writing and production is bland, the melodies are uneventful, and Bruce gets worse every album - some of the songs I heard yesterday weren't much above a spoken delivery..  If those three albums were released by a 6-pack of 50.60 year old guys in a band called Idle Machine, would anyone have taken notice?  I can't help but think a lot of the adulation is because it's Iron-fucking-Maiden.

This is a very good point and one I've thought about for a long time. My "falling out" with Iron Maiden was Dance of Death and everything after. I really didn't try to get into all those albums...just one or two listens and I gave up because nothing immediately grabbed me. I don't have a strong dislike for those albums though.

After listening to Senjutsu, I've come to the conclusion (and I don't know why it's taken me this long) but Iron Maiden is very much an AC/DC-type of band, I think more so in the last 20 years. They have a very distinct style and they really stick to their guns even when they get "progressive". With this mindset, I am starting to revisit the last 4 albums. I have started with A Matter of Life and Death and I'm liking it more.

[425]

I've really tried with the last 3 albums, but all of them have largely left me underwhelmed and limp.  Nothing stands out.  The writing and production is bland, the melodies are uneventful, and Bruce gets worse every album - some of the songs I heard yesterday weren't much above a spoken delivery..  If those three albums were released by a 6-pack of 50.60 year old guys in a band called Idle Machine, would anyone have taken notice?  I can't help but think a lot of the adulation is because it's Iron-fucking-Maiden.

I missed this post the first time, since I couldn't listen to the album yet and so was staying away from the thread.

I don't think there's anything I can say to change your view on most of this, and I don't really think I need to, but: I got into Iron Maiden in 2011. The song that got me into them was When the Wild Wind Blows. The first Maiden album I listened to all the way through was The Final Frontier, which is still my favorite. I didn't care what name was at the top of the cover, and still don't—that album, to me, is incredibly special, and I'd take it over the complete batch from Killers to Powerslave every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's just one person's view, completely granted. But I just wanted to speak up as a rare person who actually experienced starting with one of the last three albums, with none of the reputation of the classic era as something that even was a factor for me.

[Dedalus]

I'm definitely not one of those who feel a need to listen to something because it's from a famous and established band.

Just to illustrate: I've never listened to Van Halen's Different Kind of Truth, I haven't listened to AC/DC's Power Up, I haven't listened to Helloween's new one yet.... 

[Herrick]

I've really tried with the last 3 albums, but all of them have largely left me underwhelmed and limp.  Nothing stands out.  The writing and production is bland, the melodies are uneventful, and Bruce gets worse every album - some of the songs I heard yesterday weren't much above a spoken delivery..  If those three albums were released by a 6-pack of 50.60 year old guys in a band called Idle Machine, would anyone have taken notice?  I can't help but think a lot of the adulation is because it's Iron-fucking-Maiden.

I missed this post the first time, since I couldn't listen to the album yet and so was staying away from the thread.

I don't think there's anything I can say to change your view on most of this, and I don't really think I need to, but: I got into Iron Maiden in 2011. The song that got me into them was When the Wild Wind Blows. The first Maiden album I listened to all the way through was The Final Frontier, which is still my favorite. I didn't care what name was at the top of the cover, and still don't—that album, to me, is incredibly special, and I'd take it over the complete batch from Killers to Powerslave every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's just one person's view, completely granted. But I just wanted to speak up as a rare person who actually experienced starting with one of the last three albums, with none of the reputation of the classic era as something that even was a factor for me.

That's cool. I didn't even think about fans who got into the band from their newer stuff after reading jingle.boy's post. I was looking at it from someone who got into their stuff from the earlier albums.

[jammindude]

It’s like meeting someone who’s first exposure to Star Wars was the prequels.

[DoctorAction]

After listening to Senjutsu, I've come to the conclusion (and I don't know why it's taken me this long) but Iron Maiden is very much an AC/DC-type of band, I think more so in the last 20 years. They have a very distinct style and they really stick to their guns even when they get "progressive".

Oh, yes. I agree with this 100%. Maiden are the most important piece of my musical taste but this is super-true.

[wolfking]

Random post, but speaking of Janick, his playing on Son of A Gun us fucking incredible.  He really connects with the guitar on that song.

[Architeuthis]

I've really tried with the last 3 albums, but all of them have largely left me underwhelmed and limp.  Nothing stands out.  The writing and production is bland, the melodies are uneventful, and Bruce gets worse every album - some of the songs I heard yesterday weren't much above a spoken delivery..  If those three albums were released by a 6-pack of 50.60 year old guys in a band called Idle Machine, would anyone have taken notice?  I can't help but think a lot of the adulation is because it's Iron-fucking-Maiden.

I missed this post the first time, since I couldn't listen to the album yet and so was staying away from the thread.

I don't think there's anything I can say to change your view on most of this, and I don't really think I need to, but: I got into Iron Maiden in 2011. The song that got me into them was When the Wild Wind Blows. The first Maiden album I listened to all the way through was The Final Frontier, which is still my favorite. I didn't care what name was at the top of the cover, and still don't—that album, to me, is incredibly special, and I'd take it over the complete batch from Killers to Powerslave every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's just one person's view, completely granted. But I just wanted to speak up as a rare person who actually experienced starting with one of the last three albums, with none of the reputation of the classic era as something that even was a factor for me.

I'm with you on this.  I came into the Iron Maiden camp with Dance of Death. I love every album since as well, especially Final Frontier and Senjutsu.  I'm 49 years old and I like the post 2000 era better than any of their earlier stuff.
I'll take "Paschendale" over "Number of the Beast" live in concert any day.. 

[TAC]

Random post, but speaking of Janick, his playing on Son of A Gun us fucking incredible.  He really connects with the guitar on that song.

Absolutely. He's excellent on Tattooed Millionaire. Even in a song like Born In '58, his solo is short, but tasteful and effective.


After watching a lot of live stuff over the last few weeks, Rock In Rio, DOTR, Live Chapter, and the Legacy Rio show, his playing is way more prominent in their sound than one would think. Those single note melodies are a hallmark to this era. And not all of his solos suck. His solo in Brave New World is awesome, and many others as well.


I can't find the post earlier, but I thought someone posted something along the lines of Janick's stage antics being beneath Iron Maiden. Janick is on point live and THAT is all that Steve cares about. Like I said, his pick and note control is excellent, even while he's jumping around. His live solos can be a bit suspect, but he's usually only playing over 6 or 8 bars. I think he just tries to do something different than Dave and Adrian. He's actually quite important to their sound.

[Willthescout7]

I became a fan in 2016 after a friend showed me Empire of the Clouds. I went home and listened to all of The Book of Souls, and officially joined the bandwagon after hearing The Red & the Black. I then went through most of the rest of their discography, though I have yet to listen to any of the other reunion albums.

[Zydar]

I became a fan in 1998, so I only had the 80s and 90s albums to listen to (the "classic" era), which I still much prefer. The reunion stuff just doesn't do much for me, aside from a song here and there.

[TAC]

I've really tried with the last 3 albums, but all of them have largely left me underwhelmed and limp.  Nothing stands out.  The writing and production is bland, the melodies are uneventful, and Bruce gets worse every album - some of the songs I heard yesterday weren't much above a spoken delivery..  If those three albums were released by a 6-pack of 50.60 year old guys in a band called Idle Machine, would anyone have taken notice?  I can't help but think a lot of the adulation is because it's Iron-fucking-Maiden.

This is a very good point and one I've thought about for a long time. My "falling out" with Iron Maiden was Dance of Death and everything after. I really didn't try to get into all those albums...just one or two listens and I gave up because nothing immediately grabbed me. I don't have a strong dislike for those albums though.

After listening to Senjutsu, I've come to the conclusion (and I don't know why it's taken me this long) but Iron Maiden is very much an AC/DC-type of band, I think more so in the last 20 years. They have a very distinct style and they really stick to their guns even when they get "progressive". With this mindset, I am starting to revisit the last 4 albums. I have started with A Matter of Life and Death and I'm liking it more.

So sure, they are very much a Legacy band, with a career spanning over 40 years. There will certainly be some familiarity. But there's a big difference between familiarity and becoming stale. I think the hallmark of the Reunion Era is that they have gotten anything but stale. Their albums require more than a cursory listen.

I'm with you on this.  I came into the Iron Maiden camp with Dance of Death. I love every album since as well, especially Final Frontier and Senjutsu.  I'm 49 years old and I like the post 2000 era better than any of their earlier stuff.
I'll take "Paschendale" over "Number of the Beast" live in concert any day.. 

I didn't realize you were that old..
What took you so long that Dance Of Death was your start?

I'll be 53 next week, and I was a huge fan in the 80's, and I think the Reunion Era is every bit as good, if not better than the Classic Era.

[wolfking]

Random post, but speaking of Janick, his playing on Son of A Gun us fucking incredible.  He really connects with the guitar on that song.

Absolutely. He's excellent on Tattooed Millionaire. Even in a song like Born In '58, his solo is short, but tasteful and effective.


After watching a lot of live stuff over the last few weeks, Rock In Rio, DOTR, Live Chapter, and the Legacy Rio show, his playing is way more prominent in their sound than one would think. Those single note melodies are a hallmark to this era. And not all of his solos suck. His solo in Brave New World is awesome, and many others as well.


I can't find the post earlier, but I thought someone posted something along the lines of Janick's stage antics being beneath Iron Maiden. Janick is on point live and THAT is all that Steve cares about. Like I said, his pick and note control is excellent, even while he's jumping around. His live solos can be a bit suspect, but he's usually only playing over 6 or 8 bars. I think he just tries to do something different than Dave and Adrian. He's actually quite important to their sound.

I've said it before, but it was so good he used it again in Montsegur.


I've always thought he was important to their sound truthfully.  When getting into Maiden, Maiden England and Donington 92 were my two big concert VHS's I used to watch.  Enjoy them both equally and appreciated the contrast between Adrian and Janick.

[porcacultor]

I'm a sucker for Janick's playing, so I don't really get the hate that pops up from time to time. Then again, I joined the Iron Maiden party in 2003, so he was well established in the band by then. Many of the things I love the most in the band, like the climactic solos in Blood Brothers, Rainmaker, and The Red and the Black wouldn't be the same without him – and I do appreciate that he's willing to get noisy with his solos from time to time. Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I would definitely miss him were he not in the band.

I do think it's special that the three guitarists are so distinct in terms of timbre, composition, and approaches to soloing that you can (mostly) tell who's playing without seeing footage.

[wolfking]

I'm a sucker for Janick's playing, so I don't really get the hate that pops up from time to time. Then again, I joined the Iron Maiden party in 2003, so he was well established in the band by then. Many of the things I love the most in the band, like the climactic solos in Blood Brothers, Rainmaker, and The Red and the Black wouldn't be the same without him – and I do appreciate that he's willing to get noisy with his solos from time to time. Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I would definitely miss him were he not in the band.

I do think it's special that the three guitarists are so distinct in terms of timbre, composition, and approaches to soloing that you can (mostly) tell who's playing without seeing footage.

Rainmaker is all Dave mate.

[porcacultor]

I'm a sucker for Janick's playing, so I don't really get the hate that pops up from time to time. Then again, I joined the Iron Maiden party in 2003, so he was well established in the band by then. Many of the things I love the most in the band, like the climactic solos in Blood Brothers, Rainmaker, and The Red and the Black wouldn't be the same without him – and I do appreciate that he's willing to get noisy with his solos from time to time. Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I would definitely miss him were he not in the band.

I do think it's special that the three guitarists are so distinct in terms of timbre, composition, and approaches to soloing that you can (mostly) tell who's playing without seeing footage.

Rainmaker is all Dave mate.

Not all, man – I mean the part where they're all harmonizing before the chorus kicks back in. I don't think that's all Dave multitracking himself, and the way at his and Janick's sounds mesh in that part is pretty grand (maybe Adrian's playing along in that part too, though I think he does the rhythm part live).

[Dream Team]

I’ve been a fan since 83, and have come around to the fact that Adrian is by far the most important member and best songwriter. Not sure I would listen if he left again. The reason TFF is the best reunion album is because he wrote most of it.