The Iron Maiden Thread v. The Merge of Souls

[MirrorMask]

My view is that if you're going to a concert on the "*album title* tour," you should expect to hear anywhere from a few songs off that album to the full thing.

Well, yeah, I agree with this.  I just wanted to hear more than just their new album.  Which is what they played that year.  Just A Matter of Life and Death, nothing else.

But they never played that album and "nothing else". They always played two songs to round out the set and three more as encores. It was a 15 songs show, with 10 from the new album.

[BelichickFan]

My view is that if you're going to a concert on the "*album title* tour," you should expect to hear anywhere from a few songs off that album to the full thing.

Well, yeah, I agree with this.  I just wanted to hear more than just their new album.  Which is what they played that year.  Just A Matter of Life and Death, nothing else.

Mostly but they added several classics at the end.

[425]

This whole line of discussion about cutting a bunch of songs from the reunion albums is just pure sacrilege to me. Face in the Sand? Lord of Light? The Man Who Would Be King? The Legacy, for God's sake, when that's a top 10 Iron Maiden song of all time?

I know it's all hypothetical, but I feel about that the same way 80s fans would feel if I said that Children of the Damned, Revelations, Powerslave, Alexander the Great and The Clairvoyant all should have been stuck in a box, never to see the light of day.

[nick_z]

This whole line of discussion about cutting a bunch of songs from the reunion albums is just pure sacrilege to me. Face in the Sand? Lord of Light? The Man Who Would Be King? The Legacy, for God's sake, when that's a top 10 Iron Maiden song of all time?

I know it's all hypothetical, but I feel about that the same way 80s fans would feel if I said that Children of the Damned, Revelations, Powerslave, Alexander the Great and The Clairvoyant all should have been stuck in a box, never to see the light of day.

This is obviously just for fun  My guess is this comes from the general perception (which you clearly don't agree with) that the reunion albums tend to be a bit bloated and over-long (both overall and within the songs themselves). Although this is obviously not just Maiden's issue these days. The older, "classic", albums are shorter - which of course doesn't mean they don't have their share of filler (and arguably a Maiden album wouldn't be a Maiden album without filler! Gangland, Sun and Steel, Quest for Fire, The Duellists...?)

Of course, none of the old songs you mentioned I would ever think of cutting, but that is probably your point 

[425]

I mean, yeah, that's part of my point. I'd rank Face in the Sand third on DoD, Lord of Light third or fourth on AMOLAD, The Legacy second on AMOLAD, and TMWWBK fifth on TFF, which doesn't sound good until I add that my top three on TFF are all in my top six of the band's songs period. All four of those songs are top 30 Iron Maiden songs overall for me.

And I do disagree with the perception that the reunion albums are over-long. In fact, I think they have proportionally less filler than the 80s albums despite being longer. There is no Quest for Fire equivalent on any reunion album.

[nick_z]

And I do disagree with the perception that the reunion albums are over-long. In fact, I think they have proportionally less filler than the 80s albums despite being longer. There is no Quest for Fire equivalent on any reunion album.

I do disagree with your disagreement, although not entirely  For me, the "filler" in the reunion albums is sometimes within the songs themselves, which could in many instances be shorter (to be clear, I don't mind long songs at all! I'm a DT fan, after all  it's just that I think many latter-day Maiden songs' lengths are not quite justified by their content)

[nick_z]

I'd rank Face in the Sand third on DoD

That's interesting! What are your favorite two songs on DoD?

[425]

Paschendale is my favorite Iron Maiden song period, and then Dance of Death is second on the album and top 20 overall. Face in the Sand is around top 30.

[Stadler]

I mean, yeah, that's part of my point. I'd rank Face in the Sand third on DoD, Lord of Light third or fourth on AMOLAD, The Legacy second on AMOLAD, and TMWWBK fifth on TFF, which doesn't sound good until I add that my top three on TFF are all in my top six of the band's songs period. All four of those songs are top 30 Iron Maiden songs overall for me.

And I do disagree with the perception that the reunion albums are over-long. In fact, I think they have proportionally less filler than the 80s albums despite being longer. There is no Quest for Fire equivalent on any reunion album.

Boom.  Exactly.

[wolfking]

I mean, yeah, that's part of my point. I'd rank Face in the Sand third on DoD, Lord of Light third or fourth on AMOLAD, The Legacy second on AMOLAD, and TMWWBK fifth on TFF, which doesn't sound good until I add that my top three on TFF are all in my top six of the band's songs period. All four of those songs are top 30 Iron Maiden songs overall for me.

And I do disagree with the perception that the reunion albums are over-long. In fact, I think they have proportionally less filler than the 80s albums despite being longer. There is no Quest for Fire equivalent on any reunion album.

Boom.  Exactly.

El Dorado would like a word with both of you.

[DoctorAction]

"...When the land was swamp and caves WERE HOOOOME!!"

  I love Quest For Fire for it's silliness.

In fact, I'd take it over TRATB, which everyone seems to love but to me is so Harris-by-numbers-complete-with-songalong-part that I can't bear it.

Face In The Sand is wonderful, afaic.

[Zantera]

I don't feel the length on the first 3 reunion albums but The Final Frontier definitely has a couple - IMO that album is very backloaded and you gotta sit through a couple of forgettable songs to get to the great stuff, and Book of Souls which is 1 ½ hour long and I can't remember a single song from it (then again I haven't listened to it in a while).

The classic albums definitely feel easier to sit through IMO but part of that is the shorter length and it's entirely based in them being better by any means. AMOLAD is one of my favorite Maiden albums but it's definitely a more challenging listening experience than throwing on Number of the Beast for example.

[nick_z]

Paschendale is my favorite Iron Maiden song period, and then Dance of Death is second on the album and top 20 overall. Face in the Sand is around top 30.

Yeah, the title-track and Paschendale are my favorites too, then I have a soft spot for Rainmaker (they still can write great, shorter songs!), and Montsegur after that...but, really, DoD is a fantastic album overall.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Those who say the title track of Book of Souls is perfect are missing the blatant rip-off of Losfer Words in the middle section. And for all its length, I think it ends in a very abrupt way.

[IDontNotDoThings]

The Legacy, for God's sake, when that's a top 1 Iron Maiden song of all time?

Fixed that for me.

Re: cutting songs
I think the issue with later IM albums isn't the amount of songs, but the amount of unnecessary sections within some of them. The amount of quiet intros that don't connect with the rest of the song (Reincarnation, Lord Of Light, Man Who Would Be King), the sheer amount of lyrical ramblings in For The Greater Good Of God & Starblind,  & the extended solos in The Red & The Black & The Book Of Souls title track, are all things that I feel make the last three albums a more difficult listen. Say what you will about the weaker songs in the classic era, but at least they tend to be over quickly.

It's for this reason that the lengths of the songs on the new album worry me a bit, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I actually hear it.

[425]

Those who say the title track of Book of Souls is perfect are missing the blatant rip-off of Losfer Words in the middle section. And for all its length, I think it ends in a very abrupt way.

I don't think I've listened to Losfer Words in over five years and I'm not sure I'd even recognize it if someone played the actual song, so no, I didn't notice any similarity. But I'll double down and say I don't mind if they took some part of it and put it in a much better song.

[nick_z]

Re: cutting songs
I think the issue with later IM albums isn't the amount of songs, but the amount of unnecessary sections within some of them. The amount of quiet intros that don't connect with the rest of the song (Reincarnation, Lord Of Light, Man Who Would Be King), the sheer amount of lyrical ramblings in For The Greater Good Of God & Starblind,  & the extended solos in The Red & The Black & The Book Of Souls title track, are all things that I feel make the last three albums a more difficult listen. Say what you will about the weaker songs in the classic era, but at least they tend to be over quickly.

It's for this reason that the lengths of the songs on the new album worry me a bit, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I actually hear it.

Yep, that's how I generally feel too...

[RodrigoAltaf]

Those who say the title track of Book of Souls is perfect are missing the blatant rip-off of Losfer Words in the middle section. And for all its length, I think it ends in a very abrupt way.

I don't think I've listened to Losfer Words in over five years and I'm not sure I'd even recognize it if someone played the actual song, so no, I didn't notice any similarity. But I'll double down and say I don't mind if they took some part of it and put it in a much better song.

I'll make it easy for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNlBY1e9MlQ

[wolfking]

Out of the Shadows (aka Tears of the Dragon part II)

I've got AMOLAD in the car today and just finished this song.  I don't get this comparison at all.

[wolfking]

I've never thought of Losfer Words during the Book of Souls, but know what you're talking about without listening.  It's the same as the Wasted Years riff being recycled 5 or 6 times throughout their career.  It's a non issue for me and doesn't make the songs any less enjoyable.

[425]

I'll make it easy for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNlBY1e9MlQ

I hear it, but I stand by what I said: Don't mind at all that they've taken that bit and put it in a song that I like a lot better.

I've never thought of Losfer Words during the Book of Souls, but know what you're talking about without listening.  It's the same as the Wasted Years riff being recycled 5 or 6 times throughout their career.  It's a non issue for me and doesn't make the songs any less enjoyable.

I rolled my eyes a little bit when I first heard it in the intro of Shadows of the Valley, but Bruce actually turns that into one of the coolest parts of the album.

[wolfking]

Actually, Losfer Words is where we first hear the Wasted Years riff funnily enough.  Others;

Shadows of the Valley
The Clansman (last chorus)
The Fallen Angel (chorus)
Paschendale (main theme)
FTGGOG (Dave kind of pinches it for his solo)
El Dorado (intro)

[Lupton]

I think thats the moment I crossed the line into being a Maiden fan. Was when I realized I didn't care how many times certain progressions, riffs, motifs, have-what-you-will would be re-used, repeated, recycled, etc.  because it always sounds awesome to me! It's as if, only they have earned this special docterate's degree to work in the field of writing proper Maiden songs. Funny, I sort of feel the same way about DT; they have perfected the craft of what they do and therefore can re-iterate certain things in their music. These things become defining characteristics of their sound.

[Kotowboy]

"Writing On The Wall" is the first Iron Maiden song I actually liked.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight

True.  I've never been a fan. I've tried to like em but never have. And I love Metallica, Trivium, Mastodon. Dream Theater. Slipknot. So F off with that Coldplay sh*t 

[DoctorAction]

Actually, Losfer Words is where we first hear the Wasted Years riff funnily enough.  Others;

Shadows of the Valley
The Clansman (last chorus)
The Fallen Angel (chorus)
Paschendale (main theme)
FTGGOG (Dave kind of pinches it for his solo)
El Dorado (intro)

There are a few techniques/tricks that Maiden use all the time. Repeating single root notes and dotting in other single notes might be the most common. You hear it all over the place (And in metal generally. All over thrash style riffs with the repeating root muted.) Is Phantom the first place it comes up? Does it come up before Maiden or is it "their's"?

[MirrorMask]

Shadows of the Valley starts as Wasted Years, goes on as Fallen Angel and somewhere goes into Benny Breeg or something, don't remember which song.... and the fast part of The Book of Souls borrows from Montsegur.

[DoctorAction]

Having a big Maiden listen today.

God's teeth The Longest Day is good. Gave me the tingles and everything.

[Zydar]

It's been a while since I listened to some Maiden (aside from the new single). I plan on doing a reunion era "marathon" this weekend. I usually just focus on the 80s stuff.

[Stadler]

So I'm in the car, listening to The Final Frontier, and just as "The Final Frontier" section of the first song starts, I pick up my stepson from his dads (he's 13, he knows of Iron Maiden but isn't a fan).  We start driving, and Bruce is singing "The Final Frontier!" and my kid goes "is that all he sings this entire song?" 

I had to laugh, given the criticisms here.  Of course, then I played him "The Angel And The Gambler".

[TAC]

Having a big Maiden listen today.

God's teeth The Longest Day is good. Gave me the tingles and everything.

That buildup in the beginning is incredible. The toms symbolizing the mortar explosions is genius.

[425]

So I'm in the car, listening to The Final Frontier, and just as "The Final Frontier" section of the first song starts, I pick up my stepson from his dads (he's 13, he knows of Iron Maiden but isn't a fan).  We start driving, and Bruce is singing "The Final Frontier!" and my kid goes "is that all he sings this entire song?" 

I had to laugh, given the criticisms here.  Of course, then I played him "The Angel And The Gambler".

My favorite part of The Angel and the Gambler is that one chorus where Blaze sings "Don't you think I could save you" twice instead of saying "Don't you think I'm a savior," and it's not clear whether or not it was intentional.

I actually like the song, though.

[devieira73]

Having a big Maiden listen today.

God's teeth The Longest Day is good. Gave me the tingles and everything.

This song is perfect, totally love it, including the slow intro. The guitar work in the intro is also amazing!

[nick_z]

It's been a while since I listened to some Maiden (aside from the new single). I plan on doing a reunion era "marathon" this weekend. I usually just focus on the 80s stuff.

Following you lead...I have Brave New World on now...I always had the impression that overall production is much better on BNW than in subsequent albums. Is it just me?

[cramx3]

It's been a while since I listened to some Maiden (aside from the new single). I plan on doing a reunion era "marathon" this weekend. I usually just focus on the 80s stuff.

Following you lead...I have Brave New World on now...I always had the impression that overall production is much better on BNW than in subsequent albums. Is it just me?

I like BNWs production more than any other IM album

[nick_z]

One thing I feel Maiden haven't been doing as much as in the far past is those signature, proper twin-lead harmonized guitar lines...I think this has been the case since the Fear of the Dark album, really...lots of times, yes, you have the two guitars doing the melody, but it's a single note (or maybe just a different octave).

I'm probably just rambling  but I'm thinking those absolute classic moments, like the ending of Seventh Son (the song), at around 8:55 (probably one of my favorite moments in all of metal music history!) or Infinite Dreams (around the 4-minute mark, and then again after the 5-minute mark) or in a number of Powerslave songs or, well, a ton of old Maiden songs period...

Listening to BNW, for example, there are moments that just scream proper twin-leads...not to say they should over-use that trick, but in some cases it just brings it to the next level (even just thinking about reunion albums, the section after the solo in Rainmaker on DoD...predictable, maybe, but so, so good). And it is all the more puzzling to me, now that they have 3 guitars and they could a bunch of cool things (and reproduce them live!)

Anyone sharing this feeling or am I not making any sense?